Impeachment Thread

[Dumpington]

magicalmoments writes: "So... Let's assume trump is acquitted by the senate. That means he is not removed from office. Ok. Let's assume he is republican candidate for president in 2020. Ok. Let's assume he wins the election. Ok. Sometime in January 2021 he'll be sworn in. Ok."

So far we're in complete agreement regarding what the future holds, magicalmoments.

"So, as former impeached president, impeached for breaching his oath of office, how does it work in 2021?"

An acquittal by the U.S. Senate means NOT GUILTY - his impeachment by the House Democrats will have accomplished absolutely nothing!

Freakyguy41 asks: "Anything wrong with requiring people to comply with lawful subpoenas to testify to the truth?"

You are absolutely right, Freakyguy! And the House lawyers prosecuting Trump in the U.S. Senate will undoubtedly want to bring that up! You DO know that the judge presiding over the impeachment trial will be the Chief Justice of our U.S. Supreme Court, don't you? You can't ask for better justice than that!

"The Democratic Party knows they have the truth and evidence on their side..."

We can't know that until this thing goes to trial in the U.S. Senate! Our system of justice presumes "innocent until proven guilty," correct? You seem to want to condemn the accused even BEFORE the trial begins! That was what Hitler & Stalin regularly did!

"Obama immediately imposed sanctions on Russia for invading the Crimea... "

Didn't Obama ALSO impose sanctions on the Russians after they meddled in America's 2016 elections while that weak loser sat on his stupid ass in the White House doing NOTHING to protect our democracy as his oath of office required?

 

[jomar]

KeithD writes: "Trump is impeached."

Trump and Bill Clinton now share this historical experience.

...

Dear Russian bot, denying getting a blow job vs asking a foreign country to intervene in an election are kinda different. Have a nice day.

 

[Dumpington]

jomar writes: "Dear Russian bot, denying getting a blow job vs asking a foreign country to intervene in an election are kinda different."

Getting a blow-job in the oval office from a White House intern may not be an impeachable offense, jomar, but perjury and obstruction of justice (regarding an investigation into sexual harrassment by a powerful man against numerous women)? Those things sound more serious!

But at least we can BOTH agree that what the House of Representatives wants and what the U.S. Senate ultimately decides are often TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS, am I right? Our U.S. Constitution will see to it that justice is served in the end!

"Have a nice day."

You, too, my friend!

 

[freakyguy41]

So... Let's assume trump is acquitted by the senate. That means he is not removed from office. Ok.
Let's assume he is republican candidate for president in 2020. Ok.
Let's assume he wins the election. Ok.
Sometime in January 2021 he'll be sworn in. Ok.
So, as former impeached president, impeached for breaching his oath of office, how does it work in 2021?
Does he swear to uphold the constitution (this time around, unlike last time) ...

Just musing on how it will go this time around. Also, the crowd size in 2021. I mean, it might be larger this time around, hell, I'd go to see that. How often would you get a chance to see an impeached president take the oath of office? Weird. Only in the USA.

Consider... trump still has 11 months to go just to get to the election... Ukraine was denied payment of the money last March... trump was impeached in December... that's just 9 months from beginning to impeachment. If trump gets desperate, who knows what other abuses of power, crimes and impeachable offenses he might do... start a war and get people killed?

Consider the entire situation...
Economy... republicans are quoting the 3.2% growth rate from the first quarter of 2019 (government first quarter is October through December 2018)... but for calendar 2019, the U.S. BLS reports the economy is only growing at 2%. Obama had a 2% growth rate with an annually decreasing debt ($ 450 billion)... trump is delivering 2% with a vastly increasing debt now over $ 1 trillion. Hence trump has to "negotiate" a deal with China... in other words, he can't implement further tariffs because they're already failing... U.S. manufacturing is already in recession. Farmers are taking a beating... coal is still failing... sales of new capital equipment are flat... and he's creating fewer jobs than Obama did. That's why trump is also pushing the fed to lower interest rates... and while that will provide a temporary economic boost, it also means businesses and people are likely to go deeper into debt.
Recession... 90% of the time, when short term interest rates are higher than long term rates (Inverted Yield Curve), a recession follows within 15 months. The last time was July 2007 followed by a massive recession near depression in October 2008. The U.S. has now had an Inverted Yield Curve since July 2019. This is another reason trump is pushing the fed to lower short term rates... to try to postpone the now nearly inevitable recession until after the election... at which time, if re-elected, trump will undoubtedly blame democrats. The last four republican trickle down economies have produced the last four U.S. recessions... four in a row... and now we wait on trump... republican supporters have a learning disability.
Voter population... the caucasian population is very slowly falling... while all of the population growth is black, latino and asian. trump is hyping low unemployment... which is a continuation of the improvements beginning in 2010... BUT, worker compensation is so low that many minorities are working two full time jobs (70 hours per week) and still can't meet their costs of living. The bottom 80% of the population has only 23% of the wealth... the top 1% has 29% of all wealth... the last time this happened, in the early 1800s the French hauled out the guillotine and lopped off the heads of the top 1%, then explained to everyone else that from now on, things will be different.

 

[YDB95]

The bottom 80% of the population has only 23% of the wealth... the top 1% has 29% of all wealth... the last time this happened, in the early 1800s the French hauled out the guillotine and lopped off the heads of the top 1%, then explained to everyone else that from now on, things will be different.

THAT is class warfare. Progressive taxation isn't. We on the left have to do a better job of getting that point across. But I'm cautiously optimistic that we're getting there. The right seems to have retired the "if we cut taxes on the rich, they'll invest that money and create jobs for everyone" bullshit, probably because too many people have noticed that it simply isn't happening, never has and likely never will.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

but perjury and obstruction of justice (regarding an investigation

Ok first off the above is out of context, and we all know I hate our of context.

The reason I am posting this portion of Dumpingtons answer is, this also lies at the heart of the impeachment of Trump over the phone call to Ukraine.

Now no one can accuse Trump of lying under oath, because well, he won't go under oath. So no chance of Perjury.

Yet Trump has told his cabinet members to ignore the lawful subpoena's from the House committee's investigation.

Yes you can argue that the court should rule on the legality of the power of the committee to issue those subpoenas as well. However, past precedence shows a history of courts confirming the right of congress to issue subpoenas.

If the SCOTUS rules the subpoenas before it now are legal, then you can confirm Trump has attempted to obstruct an investigation.

 

[phrodeau]

FYI freakyguy41, the yield curve was inverted from late March to mid-October, but is not currently inverted.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

So... Let's assume trump is acquitted by the senate. That means he is not removed from office. Ok.
Let's assume he is republican candidate for president in 2020. Ok.
Let's assume he wins the election. Ok.
Sometime in January 2021 he'll be sworn in. Ok.
So, as former impeached president, impeached for breaching his oath of office, how does it work in 2021?
Does he swear to uphold the constitution (this time around, unlike last time) ...

Just musing on how it will go this time around. Also, the crowd size in 2021. I mean, it might be larger this time around, hell, I'd go to see that. How often would you get a chance to see an impeached president take the oath of office? Weird. Only in the USA.

Yes, this is exactly how it would, and likely will, work. And if so, it’s awesome that you’re planning to be among those in the audience to see our acquitted president is inaugurated.

 

[Dumpington]

YDB95 writes: "We on the left have to do a better job of getting that point across."

That's like saying that the lefties running Venezuela need to "do a better job" explaining to the suffering people of that once-prosperous nation about how they have improved their lives since Hugo Chavez first took power and Venezuela's socialist economy began it's slow descent into the toilet!

Fuzzy1975 writes: "Now no one can accuse Trump of lying under oath, because well, he won't go under oath. So no chance of Perjury."

The Democratic Party ruled twenty years ago that lying under oath was NOT an impeachable offense!

"If the SCOTUS rules the subpoenas before it now are legal, then you can confirm Trump has attempted to obstruct an investigation."

Good point, Fuzzy - the House prosecutors should probably point that out in the upcoming impeachment trial to be held in the U.S. Senate - which they CAN'T do if Speaker Pelosi neglects to forward the articles of impeachment to the senate out of fear that her side doesn't have a serious case! Let's be honest here. The Dems CAN'T forward their impeachment charges to the next level without seriously embarrassing their party! It's NOT going to happen!

 

[phrodeau]

Lying under oath is an impeachable offense. Suggesting otherwise is silly, and nobody buys your apparent support of the Democratic Party.

 

[Dumpington]

phrodeau writes: "Lying under oath is an impeachable offense. Suggesting otherwise is silly, and nobody buys your apparent support of the Democratic Party."

Yes, a lot of people here on this forum seem to think that I am a supporter of the Democratic Party, phrodeau - when, in fact, the exact opposite is true!

I'm simply pointing out that, back in the late 1990's, many Democrats were arguing that President Bill Clinton had ONLY been impeached for getting a blow-job in the oval office, when in fact, the man had committed perjury to protect himself.

President Clinton was under investigation for numerous acts of sexual harrassment that he had committed against various women, dating back to his days as Governor of Arkansas, which both he & his wife had vehemently denied, and his Democratic Party congressional allies had rushed to his defense.

In the end, President Clinton was impeached by the House, but then acquitted in the U.S. Senate by Democrats like Joe Biden, who argued that lying under oath was NOT enough to remove a president from office.

 

[Boxlicker101]

phrodeau writes: "Lying under oath is an impeachable offense. Suggesting otherwise is silly, and nobody buys your apparent support of the Democratic Party."

Yes, a lot of people here on this forum seem to think that I am a supporter of the Democratic Party, phrodeau - when, in fact, the exact opposite is true!

I'm simply pointing out that, back in the late 1990's, many Democrats were arguing that President Bill Clinton had ONLY been impeached for getting a blow-job in the oval office, when in fact, the man had committed perjury to protect himself.

President Clinton was under investigation for numerous acts of sexual harrassment that he had committed against various women, dating back to his days as Governor of Arkansas, which both he & his wife had vehemently denied, and his Democratic Party congressional allies had rushed to his defense.

In the end, President Clinton was impeached by the House, but then acquitted in the U.S. Senate by Democrats like Joe Biden, who argued that lying under oath was NOT enough to remove a president from office.

For what it's worth - not much - I agreed with Biden. Although a felony, perjury about such a personal matter should neither rise nor fall to the level of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors."

As I recall, a majority of senators voted to acquit, including four Republicans.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

It’s important to view Trump’s impeachment in historical perspective. 66% of all impeached Presidents were impeached for humiliating Hillary Clinton.

 

[YDB95]

It’s important to view Trump’s impeachment in historical perspective. 66% of all impeached Presidents were impeached for humiliating Hillary Clinton.

How do you figure that phone call to Ukraine humiliated Hillary Clinton?

 

[Just4AFriend]

It’s important to view Trump’s impeachment in historical perspective. 66% of all impeached Presidents were impeached for humiliating Hillary Clinton.

33% ? Sure ! But why did that involve the rest of America? Started with Whitewater ended up with blue dress?
Witch hunt much??
How did a cum stain imperil America?
Other leaders (France) had lust children!

 

[phrodeau]

Bill Clinton should send Trump a note that says, “I feel your pain.”

 

[KeithD]

Bill Clinton should send Trump a note that says, “I feel your pain.”

Not much use of that since Trump's craziness has allowed him to believe he hasn't really been impeached.

 

[Chilin_Drina]

The Declaration of Indepenence

The reasons for the Declaration of Independence being signed are the same reasons Donald Trump should have been impeached. He has been the worst President toward humans and society than I have ever heard of in my lifetime. He deported the most dangerous criminals and gave then an opportunity to murder, torture, rob, rape, and get away with it. He kidnapped 1,000s of children on three different occasions, in front of America non the less... He did nothing to stop guns being put into the wrong hands shooting up school. The presidents want to fight war on terrorism? It's happening in our own country. Police killing innocent people. Children terrorizing school. Cps taking children from homes, separating families, foster system that's failed, Christopher Columbus Day has changed to Indigenious Peoples Day. Trump visited The Amazon right before the fire started. Other countries must be having a blast at our expense. We put a Black President (after hundreds of years oppressing the Black man) before we put a white Female in the white house. Not just any women. She married a future president. She knows more politics than both Bushes and Trump's money.

That's just how I feel. Can no body tell me to leave, where would or or should I go? I am American and I will practice my rights, the right way. Give no one room to talk to date they criticize.

 

[BotanyBoy]

How do you figure that phone call to Ukraine humiliated Hillary Clinton?

Same way the TDS afflicted figured he abused his power.

Pure imagination!!
https://media2.giphy.com/media/skV0H0m5ZRUFG/giphy.gif

 

[icanhelp1]

Seriously? You're going to take the republican way of not answering my question but stating some unrelated accusation that certain democrats can't be impartial... lol.
Here... let me restate the question... and I will continue to restate the question until you answer it...
"Anything wrong with requiring people to comply with lawful subpoenas to testify to the truth?"

You can ask, but for the house to require the executive branch to do anything is a separation of powers issue. The House subpoenas need to be tested in court, if the court agrees with the house at that point the executive branch would need to comply. Each branch of government are co-equal.

The Democratic Party knows they have the truth and evidence on their side... but they've never been deluded into thinking that the republican party over country and constitution won't support trump regardless... which is precisely why Pelosi should bide her time and ensure EVERYONE who receives a lawful subpoena to testify is required to appear and testify... and all subpoenaed materials have to be provided for examination. If John Roberts and the SCOTUS does not enforce lawful subpoenas then the "trial" is a sham before it begins.

The impeachment proceeding was a sham. She should but she won't. Congress does not have a statutory case for exacting subpoenas. I believe the court would rule on a statutory violation ( crime ) but not on innuendo and political emotional conjecture for crossing over the threshold of separation of powers.

phrodeau... dumpington is just trying to rile you... he knows Obama immediately imposed sanctions on Russia for invading the Crimea... and that trump eased some of those sanctions on Russia... plus, trump has done absolutely nothing about Russia's illegal invasion of the Crimea. So if Obama was a weak loser who sat on his ass... trump must be a weak loser on his knees in front of putin.

Do want WWIII. TRUMP PROVIDED LETHAL AID to the Ukraine!! Also stationed equipment and troops in Poland!

 

[icanhelp1]

The reasons for the Declaration of Independence being signed are the same reasons Donald Trump should have been impeached. He has been the worst President toward humans and society than I have ever heard of in my lifetime. He deported the most dangerous criminals and gave then an opportunity to murder, torture, rob, rape, and get away with it. He kidnapped 1,000s of children on three different occasions, in front of America non the less... He did nothing to stop guns being put into the wrong hands shooting up school. The presidents want to fight war on terrorism? It's happening in our own country. Police killing innocent people. Children terrorizing school. Cps taking children from homes, separating families, foster system that's failed, Christopher Columbus Day has changed to Indigenious Peoples Day. Trump visited The Amazon right before the fire started. Other countries must be having a blast at our expense. We put a Black President (after hundreds of years oppressing the Black man) before we put a white Female in the white house. Not just any women. She married a future president. She knows more politics than both Bushes and Trump's money.

That's just how I feel. Can no body tell me to leave, where would or or should I go? I am American and I will practice my rights, the right way. Give no one room to talk to date they criticize.

You need to take an ativan!

 

[icanhelp1]

Not much use of that since Trump's craziness has allowed him to believe he hasn't really been impeached.

Can you prove he's impeached?

 

[Jesus_Ateo]

The next time one of Trump's sycophants has jury duty I would like to advise them to do the following:

1. Make sure that they make the court aware that not only do they know the defendant, but that they plan on being in direct communication with them the entire trial.

2. Tell the judge that you are going to vote for acquittal, no matter what the evidence says.

3. Remind the judge that you are working hand-in-hand with the defendant's legal team.

4. Mention that the accused has offered you money for your vote....and that you are going to take it.

5. Inform the judge that the oath you took as a juror is meaningless...you've already made up your mind.

 

[icanhelp1]

The next time one of Trump's sycophants has jury duty I would like to advise them to do the following:

1. Make sure that they make the court aware that not only do they know the defendant, but that they plan on being in direct communication with them the entire trial.

2. Tell the judge that you are going to vote for acquittal, no matter what the evidence says.

3. Remind the judge that you are working hand-in-hand with the defendant's legal team.

4. Mention that the accused has offered you money for your vote....and that you are going to take it.

5. Inform the judge that the oath you took as a juror is meaningless...you've already made up your mind.

Next time you press charges against someone make sure to tell police:

1. I don't like him, never did.

2. He never did anything just wanted him arrested in case.

3. My nextdoor neighbor doesn't like him either and he's a lawyer!

4. My neighbor across the street gave me 50 bucks to call you, you want half?

5. Honest, I called because he might do something, just wanted to make sure we put him in jail before he does. The chief of police is my friend, so don't worry!

 

[phrodeau]

Next time you press charges against someone make sure to tell police:

1. I don't like him, never did.

2. He never did anything just wanted him arrested in case.

3. My nextdoor neighbor doesn't like him either and he's a lawyer!

4. My neighbor across the street gave me 50 bucks to call you, you want half?

5. Honest, I called because he might do something, just wanted to make sure we put him in jail before he does. The chief of police is my friend, so don't worry!

Sounds familiar.

https://shawetcanada.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/trump_ad_embed.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=698&zoom=2