I agree with Bush on this

[Azwed]

I would have prefered for him to denounce them by name but this is a start.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021113/ts_nm/bush_muslims_dc_4


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Bush Takes on Christian Right Over Anti-Islam Words
Wed Nov 13, 6:26 PM ET
By Randall Mikkelsen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday took on the Christian right core of his political base, denouncing anti-Islamic remarks made by religious leaders including evangelist Pat Robertson.


Reuters Photo



Bush said such anti-Islamic comments were at odds with the views of most Americans.


"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans," Bush told reporters as he began a meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites).


"By far, the vast majority of American citizens respect the Islamic people and the Muslim faith. After all, there are millions of peaceful-loving Muslim Americans," Bush said.


"Ours is a country based upon tolerance ... And we're not going to let the war on terror or terrorists cause us to change our values."


Bush did not identify conservative Christian leaders as his target, but White House officials said he was prompted by the anti-Islamic remarks of some of them, particularly religious broadcaster Pat Robertson, who reportedly said this week Muslims were "worse than the Nazis."


"He (Bush) wanted a clear statement," a senior White House official said.


Spokeswoman Angell Watts of Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network said she had no immediate comment.


A representative of a Muslim-American civil rights group, which had stepped up calls for Bush to repudiate such remarks, welcomed Bush's words.


"Obviously, we'd like to hear him repudiate these people by name, but we appreciate that he's moving in that direction," said Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).


"It's encouraging to see that the president is finally addressing the issue of Islamophobia in America by addressing a specific attacks on Islam. This is a new stance, and it's one that we would encourage and support," Hooper said.

BID TO DISCOURAGE BACKLASH

Bush's efforts to discourage a backlash over the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, which were blamed on Islamic militant Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), have come increasingly into conflict with antipathy to Islam shown by some conservative Christians, a core of his support.

Robertson, a popular conservative commentator who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 1988, was criticized by CAIR and the American Jewish Committee for reportedly saying on his network Monday, "Adolf Hitler was bad, but what the Muslims want to do to the Jews is worse."

Jerry Falwell, a Baptist minister and leading voice of the Christian right, in an October television interview described the prophet Mohammad as a "terrorist."

Evangelist Franklin Graham, who gave the sermon at Bush's inaugural service in 2001, has also been criticized for comments on Islam. Asked about Bush's comments on Wednesday, Graham spokesman Mark DeMoss said Graham was traveling abroad.

"He has not added to any comment he's made on the subject in months, because he's getting tired of getting asked about it, and any time he answers about it he gives the impression he's crusading on this issue and he's not," DeMoss said.

 

[p_p_man]

Yeah pretty good going even for George...

He spends a year whipping up support for his 'war' against terrorism (which by now we all know he means Islam) then when it looks as though it might run away from him he says his views are not necessarily those of his government...

Poor George...

ppman

 

[miles]

Re: Yeah pretty good going even for George...

He spends a year whipping up support for his 'war' against terrorism (which by now we all know he means Islam) then when it looks as though it might run away from him he says his views are not necessarily those of his government...

Poor George...

ppman

He's such a stupid twit, that shrub.

 

[Ham Murabi]

I'm so pleased you still have a warm place in your heart for Muslims. We all remember the denunciations from prominent American Muslims following 9/11 — oh, wait, they were pretty silent on that, weren't they?
I can tell by your thread you're not fond of the illusory "conservative Christians" the media always tells us about, as though it is wrong to be either Christian or conservative. Quite frankly, I'd rather deal with people picketing abortion clinics as the major threat in my life, rather than the possibility of someone — most likely a person who identifies himself as a Muslim — setting off a nuclear device in a town near you.
There's no question the vast majority of Muslims are decent folks. That's strictly a case of the odds … most people are decent folks. There's also no question the vast majority of Muslims live under dictatorial rule, witness the recent election "results" in Iraq. This tells me there's something really, really wrong with their critical thinking skills.
Yes, you can be pleased with President Bush for what he said, and for what Pat Robertson, or whoever, "reportedly" said. The fact is Robertson and his followers, however many there are, aren't flying airplanes into buildings. Now, name a major terrorist incident in the last five years that didn't involve Muslims.

 

[Azwed]

There is no reportly about what Robertson and the rest said because it is on tape. Most of the things they have said have been on the 700 club show.

Can you name any prominent muslim leaders? I mean like nationaly known ones besides Farakahn? I would not say he is representative of American Muslims either.

I have seen local leaders denounce the attacks.

I only live a couple of hours from Liberty so I see Falwells crap quiet frequently, he has spoken at local events nearby including sporting events, so maybe in your world his hate and ignorance is an illusion but not in mine.

 

[Spinaroonie]

How timely

 

[Don K Dyck]

More To It . . .

Hi Azwed, over on Happy Cannon Fodder Day thread there are some interesting articles relating to this topic . . .

Our information in Oz is that there is over $US 700 BILLION of Middle East investments in USA and these are being systematically withdrawn from the US economy as Dubyah Shrub continues to dance to his puppetmaters' tune . . .

As the US economy is either in, or approaching another depression, obviously the removal of such vast amounts of investment capital will hasten the economic delcine . . . the Middle East people are "voting" with their wallets, and the little puppetmasters' clique will have to realise that their 50s war strategy is just unworkable in the 21st Century . . .

Of course, there will be calls to freeze the assets of all Middle East "affiliates" of Usama bin Laden . . . except the bin Laden family who have Bush family protection . . . (see above mentioned thread . . .)

 

[Ham Murabi]

There is no reportly about what Robertson and the rest said because it is on tape. Most of the things they have said have been on the 700 club show.

Can you name any prominent muslim leaders? I mean like nationaly known ones besides Farakahn? I would not say he is representative of American Muslims either.

I have seen local leaders denounce the attacks.

I only live a couple of hours from Liberty so I see Falwells crap quiet frequently, he has spoken at local events nearby including sporting events, so maybe in your world his hate and ignorance is an illusion but not in mine.

Ah, Falwell's hate and ignorance. Tell me how that hate and ignorance has harmed you, and the U.S., and relate it to the events of 9/11.

 

[Azwed]

Ah, Falwell's hate and ignorance. Tell me how that hate and ignorance has harmed you, and the U.S., and relate it to the events of 9/11.

Well I am a hetrosexual white male so I am pretty safe from him. He offends me greatly but thats about it.

When he called Muhommad(bah I don' t care about spelling I am going to bed after this) a terrorist it caused riots in India that killed several people. How much Falwell can be blamed for that riot is of course debatlable but his statements were a catalyst for it.


He spreads hate and that is never good because there are always uneducated people who will buy into his hate.

Are you just playing devils advocate or are you actually trying to defend Falwell?

 

[Don K Dyck]

Get it Straight . . .

I'm so pleased you still have a warm place in your heart for Muslims. We all remember the denunciations from prominent American Muslims following 9/11 — oh, wait, they were pretty silent on that, weren't they?
I can tell by your thread you're not fond of the illusory "conservative Christians" the media always tells us about, as though it is wrong to be either Christian or conservative. Quite frankly, I'd rather deal with people picketing abortion clinics as the major threat in my life, rather than the possibility of someone — most likely a person who identifies himself as a Muslim — setting off a nuclear device in a town near you.
There's no question the vast majority of Muslims are decent folks. That's strictly a case of the odds … most people are decent folks. There's also no question the vast majority of Muslims live under dictatorial rule, witness the recent election "results" in Iraq. This tells me there's something really, really wrong with their critical thinking skills.
Yes, you can be pleased with President Bush for what he said, and for what Pat Robertson, or whoever, "reportedly" said. The fact is Robertson and his followers, however many there are, aren't flying airplanes into buildings. Now, name a major terrorist incident in the last five years that didn't involve Muslims.

Hi Ham, I find your post contradictory . . . firstly, you are anti- fundamentalist Christians . . . OK, I can cope with that, Fundamentalist anything is dangerous . . . then secondly, you imply that Muslims are the only source of terrorist activities in the last five years . . . confusing!!

Any American who rubbishes the election results in another country, for whatever reason, after the US 2000 Presidential appointment, lacks credibility, like the election of Dubyah Shrub . . .

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Get it Straight . . .

Hi Ham, I find your post contradictory . . . firstly, you are anti- fundamentalist Christians . . . OK, I can cope with that, Fundamentalist anything is dangerous . . . then secondly, you imply that Muslims are the only source of terrorist activities in the last five years . . . confusing!!

Any American who rubbishes the election results in another country, for whatever reason, after the US 2000 Presidential appointment, lacks credibility, like the election of Dubyah Shrub . . .

Rubbishes the election? Better double check that one; your beloved Dubyah got the most votes in Florida — though I have to admit his margin wasn't close to the 100 percent support enjoyed by Saddam.
I have no problem with fundamentalist Christians. They have their own believes, just like any other group of people you may like to lump together. And I'm not implying Muslims are the only source of major terrorist activities in the last five years. I am asserting that, not implying. Please name one major terrorist attack in the last five years that did not involve Muslims.
There is one point I do agree with. You are easily confused, mostly by facts.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Well, this should be fun to watch, and I was going to go to bed. mmmm Maybe not now.

 

[Pyper]

Re: Re: Get it Straight . . .

Please name one major terrorist attack in the last five years that did not involve Muslims.

In the past five years, the Basque terrorist organization ETA has assassinated tens of politicians, judges, military personnel, and police in Spain. They are also fond of planting bombs in malls and airports which have been responsible for many deaths, including international citizens.

Their favorite activity is to announce that they are going to murder small town politicians, such as local congressmen and mayors, several days in advance. And then they do it. In cold blood. Nice people.

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Re: Get it Straight . . .

In the past five years, the Basque terrorist organization ETA has assassinated tens of politicians, judges, military personnel, and police in Spain. They are also fond of planting bombs in malls and airports which have been responsible for many deaths, including international citizens.

Their favorite activity is to announce that they are going to murder small town politicians, such as local congressmen and mayors, several days in advance. And then they do it. In cold blood. Nice people.

Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Basking in the glory of Basques, are we? I'm feeling sheepish about that one. Guess I'll have to change my travel plans and opt for Iraq rather than Spain.

 

[Pyper]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Get it Straight . . .

Basking in the glory of Basques, are we? I'm feeling sheepish about that one. Guess I'll have to change my travel plans and opt for Iraq rather than Spain.

I suppose this is sarcastic, but I personally wouldn't wander through Bilbao anymore than I would Baghdad. The U.S. State Department frequently sends out warnings to citizens abroad concerning the Basque region.

 

[lavender]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Get it Straight . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

Here's a Few . . .

Now, name a major terrorist incident in the last five years that didn't involve Muslims.

1. The Northern Ireland bombings

2. The Rwanda terror (OK that was eight years ago)

3. Eta in Spain, already mentioned by Pyper

4. The Burmese Army in Burma (Meinmah (?))

5. US terrorist activities in Montego Bay, Cuba

6. Shining Path in Peru

7. The Saren attacks in NY/London (?) subway . . .

8. Teinamen Square China (OK that was about 10 years ago)

Somehow I get the feeling that DannyBoyUK may have an interest in this thread . . .

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Here's a Few . . .

1. The Northern Ireland bombings

2. The Rwanda terror (OK that was eight years ago)

3. Eta in Spain, already mentioned by Pyper

4. The Burmese Army in Burma (Meinmah (?))

5. US terrorist activities in Montego Bay, Cuba

6. Shining Path in Peru

7. The Saren attacks in NY/London (?) subway . . .

8. Teinamen Square China (OK that was about 10 years ago)

Somehow I get the feeling that DannyBoyUK may have an interest in this thread . . .

and over 3000 people were killed in one day right?

 

[Pyper]

Re: Re: Here's a Few . . .

and over 3000 people were killed in one day right?

One day or cumulative, what does it matter?

 

[JazzManJim]

I"m beginning to lose a great deal of my tolerance for the muslim faith.

I do realize that there are a good number of Muslims around the world and that they are good, orderly, peace-loving folk.

ON the other hand, I can't help but notice how many current wars around the world are being fostered and fought by those of the Muslim faith and not from the position of the aggrieved. This is not necessarily a faith of tolerance, even though they do prosper in a country where tolerance is prized above all. If you look across at the regimes in this world where people are most oppressed, human right are given no consideration whatever, and a very small handful of people hold absolute power over millions, you are going to find Muslim leaders there: throughout the Middle East and Africa especially.

Now the latter may be because when you develop a Theocracy, its tendency is toward exactly that kind of behavior, but it may well not either. I'm finding it very hard to overlook what initially to me have seemed to be a bagful of coincidences. They don't seem all that coincidental the harder I look at them.

Whereas I don't regard Jerry Falwell very highly (for my own religious reasons, mostly), his idead about Islam may well have some merit. They are, of course, laced with his own very heavy-handed beliefs which make them far less credulous than if they were stated by someone else, but that doesn't necessarily make the core of his argument wrong.

I can't say that I completely buy into what he says, but I can say that I'm looking very askance at the Muslim faith as a whole these days.

 

[lavender]

Re: Re: Here's a Few . . .

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Re: Here's a Few . . .

One day or cumulative, what does it matter?

There is no point in debating with you. Like donkey said, you can't see beyond the hands in front of your eyes.

 

[TWB]

The fact is Robertson and his followers, however many there are, aren't flying airplanes into buildings.

No, but there are some who murder doctors who perform legal abortions. I suppose that means all christians are terrorists.

 

[Pyper]

In response to Jim:

What about Central and South America? Now there's a region that has seen a lot, I mean A LOT, of civil wars, oppressive dictatorships, and bloodshed. Do we blame the Catholics? Is there something defective and dangerous about Catholics?

You can't blame a religion as a whole as a cause for unrest and violence. Reality is much more complicated, and the cause for trouble in a region or a certain people often involves a long chain of historical processes that can't be isolated from each other.

A&E's "Inside Islam" was a fascinating look into the history of Islam and the many events that have lead up to the unstable situation in many Islamic countries today.

 

[lavender]