How to stop the war

[zipman]

Red,

Please feel free to come to NYC and engage in civil disobedience by blocking traffic, I have a feeling my brakes won't be working very well that day.

 

[Alvin Brickrock]

Using logic with Redwave is a waste of time. You have to either put him on ignore or sit back and laugh at him make a mockery of himself. Keep in mind anytime you want to debate with him, this is a guy that celebrated September 11th and is now joyful at the death of American soldiers.

He/she pushed me over the edge and while I would never intentionally cause physical pain to someone (self defense aside) I would like the opportunity to spit in his/her face.

What makes redwave so dispicable, is that he/she would never speak out publically about his/her beliefs or show any conviction whatsoever. Instead, he/she enjoys the freedoms that this country allows him/her...uses them, but then condemns the principals that afforded him/her that freedom.

Redwave is an underacheiver. Someone who blames society for hius/her inability to acheive success, the success that he/she measures by the very people that they loath.

 

[Blindinthedark]

Best way to stop the war is to bomb America.

Bombing a people is always the best way to stop a war.

 

[Linedrive]

Just keep in mind that Redwave doesn't represent the views of the grand majority of the anti-war crowd. Most of them come to the table with a credible debate.

 

[Pookie]

Just keep in mind that Redwave doesn't represent the views of the grand majority of the anti-war crowd. Most of them come to the table with a credible debate.

Thats easy to see. RW has yet to actually present something other than tired anti-American rhetoric. It's fun to see RW twisting in the wind though.

Arguing with RW is just like the US military fighting Saddam's military; it's just not a fair fight.

"Iraq under Saddam’s regime has become a land of hopelessness, sadness, and fear. A country where people are ethnically cleansed; prisoners are tortured in more than 300 prisons in Iraq. Rape is systematic . . . congenital malformation, birth defects, infertility, cancer, and various disorders are the results of Saddam’s gassing of his own people. . . the killing and torturing of husbands in front of their wives and children . . . Iraq under Saddam has become a hell and a museum of crimes."

Iraqi Safia Al Souhail, Advocacy Director of the International Alliance for Justice

 

[cowgirl heaven]

Here's my vote. Too bad we couldn't just leave it at that.


https://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=4455151

 

[REDWAVE]

Figures!

Quoting with sources carries no credibility whatsoever, when it comes to you. But if you insist ...
Click Here

Oh .... another quote from the same ...

Just as I thought: National Review, a worthless right-wing propaganda rag, totally devoid of journalistic integrity.

 

[MNGuy]

Why don't we stop it this way:


WIN IT!

 

[70/30]

Red, Don, PP...

Here's the truth...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030317fa_fact

Here's the excuse...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030327/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/perle_resignation_9

One resignation-under-fire down, several hundred to go. i would like to get more into this but I haven't the time (i've been pointing at perle and wolfowitz for a while--a responsible reporter finally brought the down the chairman of the Global Takeover Committee)

 

[miles]

Re: Pookie_grrl

Quoting without giving the source carries no credibility whatsoever.

Just like your posts.

 

[70/30]

multiple motives--seems like that is always the case... http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/AAoil.html

December 4, 1997: Representatives of the Taliban are invited guests to the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negotiate their support for the pipeline. Future President Bush Jr. is Governor of Texas at the time. The Taliban appear to agree to a $2 billion pipeline deal, but will do the deal only if the US officially recognizes the Taliban regime. The Taliban meet with US officials, and the Telegraph reports that "the US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban's policies against women and children 'despicable,' appears anxious to please the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract." A BBC regional correspondent says "the proposal to build a pipeline across Afghanistan is part of an international scramble to profit from developing the rich energy resources of the Caspian Sea." [BBC, 12/4/97, Telegraph, 12/14/97] FTW


Early 1998: Bill Richardson, the US Ambassador to the UN, meets Taliban officials in Kabul (all such meetings are technically illegal, because the US still officially recognizes the government the Taliban ousted as the legitimate rulers of Afghanistan). US officials at the time call the oil and gas pipeline project a "fabulous opportunity" and are especially motivated by the "prospect of circumventing Iran, which offered another route for the pipeline." [Boston Globe, 9/20/01]

June 23, 1998: Future Vice President Cheney, working for the Halliburton energy company, states: "I can't think of a time when we've had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian. It's almost as if the opportunities have arisen overnight." The Caspian Sea is in Central Asia. [Cato Institute Library, Chicago Tribune, 8/10/00]

 

[70/30]

Just a little more... http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/AAoil.html

September 2000: The neoconservative think-tank Project for the New American Century writes a "blueprint" for the "creation of a 'global Pax Americana'" (see also June 3, 1997). The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century, was written for the Bush team even before the 2000 Presidential election. It was commissioned by future Vice President Cheney, future Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, future Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Florida Governor and President Bush's brother Jeb Bush, and future Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis Libby. The report calls itself a "blueprint for maintaining global US preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests." The plan shows Bush intended to take military control of Persian Gulf oil whether or not Saddam Hussein was in power and should retain control of the region even if there is no threat. It says: "The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." The report calls for the control of space through a new "US Space Forces," the political control of the internet, the subversion of any growth in political power of even close allies, and advocates "regime change" in China, North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iran and other countries. It also mentions that "advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool." A British Member of Parliament says of the report, "This is a blueprint for US world domination -- a new world order of their making. These are the thought processes of fantasist Americans who want to control the world" (see also Spring 2001 and April 2001 (D)). [Sunday Herald, 9/7/02, click here to download the think tank report] However, the report complains that these changes are likely to take a long time, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor." (convenient)[Los Angeles Times, 1/12/03] In an NBC interview at about the same time, Vice Presidential candidate Cheney defends Bush Jr.'s position of maintaining Clinton's policy not to attack Iraq because the US should not act as though "we were an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments." [Washington Post, 1/12/02] This report and the Project for the New American Century generally are mostly ignored until a few weeks before the start of the Iraq war (see February-March 20, 2003).

 

[teddybear4play]

The bright spot has been the heroic resistance of the Iraqi people, who have been truly magnificent in striking a blow for all the oppressed against imperialist invasion. Their courage, resourcefulness, and ingenuity in fighting the foreign invaders are an inspiration to oppressed people everywhere. No matter what the outcome, they have already scored a moral victory by holding up the U.S. blitzkrieg for several days now, with much lighter and less well-equipped forces.

You might want to read into a few reasons why they're slowing us down.

Trust me, it ain't because of any tactical or strategical means.

TB4p

 

[70/30]

How many days a week did Starr work on Clinton-hunt?

This site is too good-- http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/AAoil.html

December 16, 2002: President Bush names former New Jersey governor Thomas Kean as the Chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, after his original choice, Henry Kissinger, resigned (see November 27, 2002 and December 13, 2002). [Washington Post, 12/17/02] In an appearance on NBC, Kean promises an aggressive investigation. "It's really a remarkably broad mandate, so I don't think we'll have any problem looking under every rock. I've got no problems in going as far as we have to in finding out the facts." [AP, 12/17/02] However, Kean plans to remain President of Drew University and devote only ONE day a week to the commission. He also claims he would have no conflicts of interest, stating: "I have no clients except the university." [Washington Post, 12/17/02] However, he has a history of such conflict. Multinational Monitor has previously stated: "Perhaps no individual more clearly illustrates the dangers of university presidents maintaining corporate ties than Thomas Kean," citing the fact that he is on the Board of Directors of Aramark (which received a large contract with his university after he became president), Bell Atlantic, United Health Care, Beneficial Corporation, Fiduciary Trust Company International, and others. [Multinational Monitor, 11/97] Most disturbing is his Board of Director and Executive Committee positions at Amerada Hess, an oil company with extensive investments in Central Asia.

 

[Guest]

Redwave this is what I think of you




nuft said

 

[Pookie]

Re: Figures!

Just as I thought: National Review, a worthless right-wing propaganda rag, totally devoid of journalistic integrity.

Walk the walk then ... as you said, "Quoting without giving the source carries no credibility whatsoever."

Provide sources that give your statement credibility. Prove that it is "totally devoid of journalistic integrity." Otherwise, you carry no credibility whatsoever. I could make similar statements about other things quoted in this thread.

I have the sources in my own post with the names of those making the quotes. Can you provided me with something credible that proves the quote I provided is lacking journalistic integrity.

Oh .. but I forgot. You can only spout that same old tired anti-American rhetoric. Anti-American "opinions" carry little credibility because they tend to be based on emotional tirades and/or jealousy of the American way of life.

 

[Pookie]

"If Saddam Hussein fails to comply and we fail to act or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of sanctions and ignore the commitments he's made? Well, he will conclude that the international community's lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on doing more to build an arsenal of devastating destruction. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. The stakes could not be higher. Some way, someday, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal."

President Bill Clinton in 1998

 

[Pookie]

"The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognized by the U.N."

Quoted from letter by Eight European leaders in support of the United States

 

[monkeyman185]

My anger and outrage at the predatory war of aggression being waged by the U.S. against Iraq grows every day this horror and obscenity continues. This war is both immoral and illegal. Not only does it violate international law (the UN Charter's prohibition of wars of aggression), it violates the U.S. Constitution (no formal declaration of war by Congress).

The bright spot has been the heroic resistance of the Iraqi people, who have been truly magnificent in striking a blow for all the oppressed against imperialist invasion. Their courage, resourcefulness, and ingenuity in fighting the foreign invaders are an inspiration to oppressed people everywhere. No matter what the outcome, they have already scored a moral victory by holding up the U.S. blitzkrieg for several days now, with much lighter and less well-equipped forces. Defeat U.S. imperialism! Victory to the Iraqis! Their fight is the fight of ALL oppressed people worldwide!

But the Iraqis can hardly be expected to defeat the U.S. behemoth all by themselves. Those who oppose this war (and anyone who doesn't is either a monster or a moron, or both) can help to ensure right prevails over might, wherever you are located. Here in the U.S., if everyone who opposes the war (or anywhere near all of them) goes on strike and engages in civil disobedience (blocking traffic, etc.), that will be enough to paralyze the capitalist system here, and thus halt the U.S. war machine. Workers elsewhere can resist by refusing to handle war materiel. If the U.S. military can't resupply its troops, it will have to call off the war. Remember, the U.S. supply lines, stretching all the way from North America to the Middle East, are extremely long and vulnerable to disruption.

Economic warfare also plays a role. Boycott all U.S.-based companies overseas! Convert your dollars into euros! Don't invest in the U.S. economy-- pull out any money you have invested in it. A collapse of the dollar will be a major blow to U.S. imperialism, especially now that the U.S. is running such a huge trade deficit.

Finally, even those within the bowels of the imperialist military can resist. Refuse to fight this unjust war of aggression, in which you are being ordered to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity! Soldiers-- turn the guns around!

Together, we can STOP THIS WAR!

Sorry I haven't taken the time to read over the entire thread, but to people with this point of view I suggest you read this and see if you can still tell me this war in "unjustified"

Graphic writing within

 

[Pookie]

Timesonline

“There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”

Another witness told us about practices of the security services towards women: “Women were suspended by their hair as their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation.”

For these humanitarian reasons alone, it is essential to liberate the people of Iraq from the regime of Saddam. The 17 UN resolutions passed since 1991 on Iraq include Resolution 688, which calls for an end to repression of Iraqi civilians. It has been ignored. Torture, execution and ethnic-cleansing are everyday life in Saddam’s Iraq.

For more than 20 years, senior Iraqi officials have committed genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. This list includes far more than the gassing of 5,000 in Halabja and other villages in 1988. It includes serial war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war; the genocidal Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88; the invasion of Kuwait and the killing of more than 1,000 Kuwaiti civilians; the violent suppression, which I witnessed, of the 1991 Kurdish uprising that led to 30,000 or more civilian deaths; the draining of the Southern Marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically cleansed thousands of Shias; and the summary executions of thousands of political opponents.

That is what you are fighting for, REDWAVE. A truly noble cause you stand for.

 

[Pookie]

BBC

So the secret police came for his wife. Where is he? They tortured her. And when she didn't break, they tortured his daughter.

"When did you last see your father? Has he phoned? Has he been in contact?" They half-crushed the toddler's feet.

Now, she doesn't walk, she hobbles, and Ali fears that Saddam's men have crippled his daughter for life. So Ali talked to us.

Ali continued, he told me that he had to go to Najaf - a town 160km (100 miles) from Baghdad - in order to bring children's bodies from various freezers there, and that the smell was unbearable.

They used to collect children's bodies and put them in freezers for two, three or even six or seven months - God knows - until the smell got unbearable.

Then, they arrange the mass funerals. The logic being, the more dead babies, the better for Saddam. That way, he can weaken public support in the West for sanctions.

Uday's lust is famous in Baghdad. He wanted a woman who played tennis at Baghdad's Sports Club and he and Ali went round to the club.

A witness saw Saddam Hussein's son, Uday, murder another man

As Uday was turning into the car park, a tennis ball came over the fence and bounced against the car of the woman he desired.

The tennis player came into the car park to retrieve the ball, apologised to the woman. Maybe there was a bit of flirting - that does happen at tennis courts, even in England.

From his car Uday watched the two of them. Enraged, he took out a wooden cosh and beat the tennis player's brains out.

And then - get this - a few days later, the dead man's relatives apologised to Uday for the distress their son had caused him.

While we were in the north of Iraq, the chairman of the Great Britain Iraq Society, Labour MP George Galloway, was in Baghdad.

He popped up on Iraqi TV and bared his soul. "When I hear the word Iraq," he said, "I hear someone calling my name."

I don't. When I hear the word Iraq, I hear a tortured child, screaming.

Yes, REDWAVE. Very noble causes you march for. I can see why you want Saddam to win. Oh. And I have PLENTY more quotes from numerous and a different variety of sources.

But as you said ... "Victory to the Iraqis!" Its all about the oil, anyways.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Red, advocating the death of our brothers and sisters who are fighting in this war is really bad.

Supporting a regime when there are ubiquitous examples of their brutality and ruthlessness is also really bad.

Do you support your illusury "worker's paradise" so much that you support tyrranny and murder as the means to the end? I guess so. If so, you advocate murder. If you advocate murder, you are breaching the most fundemental of human values.

Not good, not good at all.