How to fix things after you fuck up

[Revel_Less]

Duct Tape can fix just about anything.

The proper application in this case might be to wrap a roll around you two while you two are in your sex position of choice. You might want to shave the area you are about to tape before you do to avoid a "ghetto waxing".

-RL

P.S.: Joking...


P.P.S.: ...Mostly.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

Sorry to be the one that has a negative comment here; everyone else seems to think you did nothing wrong. They are comparing it to masterbating in private. What you did, unless I missunderstand, is masterbate in front of other people.

I think the basic problem here is that you had no ground rules ahead of time about what type of sex with other people was allowed in your relationship. Whether it be sex chats online with web cams exposing everything, or whatever else you think might be appropriate.

Sex with other people does not necessarily have to be actual touching, etc.. it can be mutual masterbation, to sex chats to going all the way. What ever it is, if you are going involve other people in sex and you are in a committed relationship, you have to have a mutual understanding with your partner about what is acceptable and what is not. If you can't agree on what is acceptable then it may be time to get out of the relationship and move on.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not being judgmental about what you did. Just lay out the ground rules with your partner and then there should be no room misunderstandings like what happened to you.

 

[bigman507]

I'll be honest. I'm having mixed feelings about this. First of all, I don't think you did anything wrong.

Pleasureboy2, uh, how can you proceed to say what ground rules they did or did not lay down? Are you them? I didn't think so. Maybe they didnt, but I think it's a little presumptuous to say for sure that they weren't layed down.

I think that you should, if you havent already, make it clear that this was just you having some fun with friends and nothing with any actual romantic intentions.

Call me controlling or whatever, but if my girlfriend were to completely out of the blue tell me she did this, I'd be a little taken aback at first, but I'd be ok after a bit. Apparently I'm alone in this though.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

I'll be honest. I'm having mixed feelings about this. First of all, I don't think you did anything wrong.

Pleasureboy2, uh, how can you proceed to say what ground rules they did or did not lay down? Are you them? I didn't think so. Maybe they didnt, but I think it's a little presumptuous to say for sure that they weren't layed down.

I think that you should, if you havent already, make it clear that this was just you having some fun with friends and nothing with any actual romantic intentions.

Call me controlling or whatever, but if my girlfriend were to completely out of the blue tell me she did this, I'd be a little taken aback at first, but I'd be ok after a bit. Apparently I'm alone in this though.

Your not alone in this thought as I also would be a little upset if it were me. I don't know that they didn't have the ground rules already laid out, I was making that assumption because her boyfriend was so upset. I assume if the conduct were already allowed he wouldn't have gotten so upset by it.

 

[bisexplicit]

boyfriend with alcholic mother = passive-aggressive victim mentality

Don't blame yourself for his problems. Don't let him blame you for his insecurities. Recognize when he's pushing your guilt buttons and don't react.

Yeah, I think a lot of it stems from that...
And I try not to, its hard not to react to that, though.

 

[bisexplicit]

Sorry to be the one that has a negative comment here; everyone else seems to think you did nothing wrong. They are comparing it to masterbating in private. What you did, unless I missunderstand, is masterbate in front of other people.

I think the basic problem here is that you had no ground rules ahead of time about what type of sex with other people was allowed in your relationship. Whether it be sex chats online with web cams exposing everything, or whatever else you think might be appropriate.

Sex with other people does not necessarily have to be actual touching, etc.. it can be mutual masterbation, to sex chats to going all the way. What ever it is, if you are going involve other people in sex and you are in a committed relationship, you have to have a mutual understanding with your partner about what is acceptable and what is not. If you can't agree on what is acceptable then it may be time to get out of the relationship and move on.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not being judgmental about what you did. Just lay out the ground rules with your partner and then there should be no room misunderstandings like what happened to you.

We do have a no webcamming/cybering rule that I agree with one hundred percent. And, you're right, there is a big part of me to blame for this because I didn't see if he was cool with it or not.

 

[Seduce]

Well, Pleasureboy2, sex has become a part of our lives we talk very much about.
Do you recommend she goes to tell her boyfriend whenever a topic on sex is mentioned in a chatroom or something like that?
Girls do funny things when alone...... and some of them involve sexual behaviour some men would find unfitting.

If she had to establish rules with this guy about that, how on earth are they going to cope with much serious matters in life one day?!?

I do think he is behaving childish and silly. He is probably very unsure of himself to make such a big deal out of nothing really.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

Well, Pleasureboy2, sex has become a part of our lives we talk very much about.
Do you recommend she goes to tell her boyfriend whenever a topic on sex is mentioned in a chatroom or something like that?
Girls do funny things when alone...... and some of them involve sexual behaviour some men would find unfitting.

If she had to establish rules with this guy about that, how on earth are they going to cope with much serious matters in life one day?!?

I do think he is behaving childish and silly. He is probably very unsure of himself to make such a big deal out of nothing really.

remember what I said at the end of my post. I was not passing judgement. I was simply suggesting a way to avoid the conflict in the future. As you see, she did mention that they have a "no webcaming" rule already in place. That means that they have discussed what behavior is allowed and what is not. I simply suggest that they expand there list of don'ts and dos to include other things. Masterbating in front of others IS sexual behavior. Some people would be outraged by it, others wouldn't even bat an eyelash. Personally if I masturbated in front of other people, be it on webcams or live, I know my wife would not be very happy. That's because we have a rule about sex with or in the presense of others. It is off limits unless the other person is involved.

 

[Eilan]

This is the problem of AGE. People keep saying it's just a number which is pure bullshit. Sorry to be so frank, but really, as you said, your 19 and trying new things. This man is older, and wants to settle I assume. This is something people miss about an very older person in a relationship.

You're right. Age ISN'T just a number. But don't assume that ALL relationships with a significant age difference are destined to failure. It depends entirely on the couple.


We all have slightly different ideas about what cheating is or isn't. However, if we don't discuss/establish those boundaries early in the relationship, we shouldn't be surprised if/when someone oversteps them. It's difficult to "cheat" when you don't know what your SO considers cheating to be. When issues like this arise, it's definitely (past) time to expand on that talk about what's acceptable/unacceptable in the relationship.

Remember unfaithful2005's thread (that's now on the Cafe)? On that thread, some people were thinking that her husband's behavior wasn't cheating. I was of the opinion that if SHE thought that it was cheating, then it didn't matter what we thought. Perhaps, in this case, it's the same thing: if bisexplicit's BF thinks she cheated, then what we think is irrelevant. That's NOT to say that I agree with him. Given the nature of what she did, I'm having a really hard time accepting that she did cheat. However, it's not my relationship, so it's not my call. This, again, is where communication is sorely needed.

Maybe bisexplicit's decision to show her friends what she could do wasn't the most prudent decision she could have made. However, I'm not sure that her boyfriend's (over)reaction is warranted, either. I'm not sure how I would react if my husband told me about masturbating in front of his friends, but based on his reaction to this thread, I know that it wouldn't bother him if I did something similar.

FWIW, as someone who's been witness to an abusive relationship for the past 30+ years, I'd be concerned. But that's just me.

 

[Hal812]

allot of good advice

bi, as a former insecure husband with anger management issues, I can say there is allot of good advice here. (hopefully, 18 months of theropy has got me on the road to better behavior.)

IMHO, the key driver behind all of this is his insecurities. I know when my wife told me that she could have 5 orgasms with a vibrator and the best I have ever done was 3, I was hurt, and hurt bad. I felt like my whole life was replaced by a couple of C-cell batteries.

There is really nothing you can do to help him with it until he wants to face it himself. You can't give him security, he has to find it for himself.

 

[SweetErika]

This may sound odd...but are there any books or something that could help with all this?
We talked about it all for a long time...and it sounds like hes worried about it, too, and wants things to get better as well.

A lot of the books and websites seem to be for people in your position, not his ( although there are some good links that might help on this page ). A therapist might have some more suggestions, but he likely needs some intensive therapy to go along with the books.

Even if you don't think it's necessarily abuse, the following might be good reading in general IMHO... we all meet emotional abusers at some point, and it's helpful to know how to spot them and learn some strategies:
A great overview on this type of stuff, where it comes from, and what to do
Easy to read, awesome overview and comprehensive info, links, resources
An Are You Verbally Abusive Quiz
How to spot an abuser on your first date
28 Signs of Abusers
Anger and Aggression Self-Help

 

[wicked woman]

Am I missing something?

I didn't read that Bi masterbated in front of her friends...she said she could orgasm WITHOUT touching herself, and then proceeded to show them how. Maybe my definition of masterbating is different than others. (great skill to have, isn't it )

The man got jealous of something Bi did and we're saying he's over reacting and bringing up the word abusive. Frankly I'd be more concerned if a SO of mine was jealous of something I did and then didn't say anything to let me know about the jealousy. I do think HE should own his jealousy and not blame it on you, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with this situation causing him to be jealous.

I also don't hear you 'listening' to his emotions and allowing that the emotion of jealousy is OK. What actions he takes because of the jealousy may or may not be appropriate, but the emotion on it's own is not bad. I'm assuming you talked to him about what made him feel jealous and if there is anything the two of you can do to make him feel more comfortable about it.

I don't think it matters if we think what you did was acceptable or not. What matters is you thought it was fine, and he has a problem with it. I think you need to take this opportunity to open the discussion again about boundaries. No one can know ahead of time all the possible scenarios that might push there buttons. Sometimes you need to push it lightly to see the result...and then renegotiate your agreement of what is and what is not acceptable behaviour between the two of you.

Good luck working this out.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

Am I missing something?

I didn't read that Bi masterbated in front of her friends...she said she could orgasm WITHOUT touching herself, and then proceeded to show them how. Maybe my definition of masterbating is different than others. (great skill to have, isn't it )

The man got jealous of something Bi did and we're saying he's over reacting and bringing up the word abusive. Frankly I'd be more concerned if a SO of mine was jealous of something I did and then didn't say anything to let me know about the jealousy. I do think HE should own his jealousy and not blame it on you, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with this situation causing him to be jealous.

I also don't hear you 'listening' to his emotions and allowing that the emotion of jealousy is OK. What actions he takes because of the jealousy may or may not be appropriate, but the emotion on it's own is not bad. I'm assuming you talked to him about what made him feel jealous and if there is anything the two of you can do to make him feel more comfortable about it.

I don't think it matters if we think what you did was acceptable or not. What matters is you thought it was fine, and he has a problem with it. I think you need to take this opportunity to open the discussion again about boundaries. No one can know ahead of time all the possible scenarios that might push there buttons. Sometimes you need to push it lightly to see the result...and then renegotiate your agreement of what is and what is not acceptable behaviour between the two of you.

Good luck working this out.

I think you are missing something. Even though she isn't touching herself, doesn't mean that it is not masterbation. As I understand it, she was using her musles to self-stimulate to the point of orgasm (I agree that it is a great skill to have). Doesn't matter how you do it, it is still masterbation. And masterbation in front of other is a form of group sex. Anyone recall what a circle jerk is!? It's a form of mutual masterbation. No one touches anyone but themselves. Still it's a type of group sex.

I'll say it again... just set up the ground rules of what is acceptable behavior and what is not, then you can avoid jealousy, anger etc... like what happend to bisexplicit.

 

[silverwhisper]

i think pleasureboy makes a good point here re: ground rules. however, i believe that the applicability of his point is entirely dependent upon whether or not there actually is a power imbalance in the relationship and as to whether or not that's the case, i think only bi & her boyfriend have the answer.

ed

 

[bisexplicit]

Its interesting that this has brought up so much discussion in terms of what is masturbating, what isn't, ground rules, etc.

So...yeah. Hard to know what to say exactly, but I feel like since all of you have been so kind and helpful that I should give somewhat of an update. I am very worried that this is at least a somewhat emotionally abusive relationship due to reading I've done and talking with my sister (who works with victims of abuse). However, I'm not ready to give up on my relationship - its too important to me and I love him too much. So, I'm at the point now where I need to try to figure out a few things:

1) How to tell him that he needs to work on things, needs to get help, or something without hurting him too much. Because he really doesn't realize that he does any of this...I tried talking to him about it last night. For example, when I make last minute plans with friends he gets sad, and for me, it feels like hes trying to make me feel guilty, but for him he just is having his honest emotional reaction - he misses me and likes to talk to me at night. I know this doesn't sound like your typical "controlling" sortof behavior, but I'm overly sensitive to his emotional state and try very hard to appease anything that will go wrong...Anyway, my point is, he just reacts how he does and doesn't do anything on purpose. So, I'm not sure what kindof help he needs and how to get it. When suggesting advice please keep in mind that he is having financial difficulties at the moment.

2) How to get myself to emotionally seperate - at least a little bit. Part of the problem is I am so overly concerned about him and his slightest bit of unhappiness...so, I easily sacrifice my own things for him. Not that he makes me, I just get completely consumed in worrying about him. For example, I missed two psychology appointments in a row yesterday because I completey forgot about them because I was so worried about how he was. Then, because I am running out of medication, the only time when I can go is in the middle of a trip to go and pick up my bestfriend - and so I'll no longer be able to attend. Not that any of that is his fault; its just my normally responsible behavior completely disappears when I'm concerned about him.

Oh, and just to reiterate; breaking up for me, at least at the moment, is not an option.

(That was really long and I don't blame any of you if you don't read it; I know I wouldn't read a post that long, hehe.)

 

[silverwhisper]

bi:

1. IMHO, the best way to tell him that things are not quite where you want them to be is to be honest. try to express what you're feeling w/ non-accusative statements, such as "when you say [x], i hear [y] and it makes me feel [z]. are [x] and [y] the same?"

2. IMHO, what you've just described is more commonly known as co-dependence.

ed

 

[bisexplicit]

And how would one go about fixing co-dependence?

(silver: By the way, your opinions seem quite humble today, hehe. )

 

[silverwhisper]

well, you don't "fix" co-dependence, bi. you try to work with it, believe me. :>

i've been trying very hard not to say something that's going to make you feel the need to skim past my posts, b/c i think you know what i think, even though i haven't actually come out and said it. right now, i'm just trying to be supportive. :>

[gives bi a big hug]

ed

 

[Revel_Less]

I have two things to say:

1. Thinking about a person you love is great, but if it starts to disrupt your day, it is time to evaluate things.

2. Making sacrifices may be important to maintaining a relationship, but no one tells you what those types of sacrifices are. My opinion is that they are more like visiting his or her family (even though you know they hate you), going to see a movie you might normally pass on (but he/she is a diehard fan), or trying to keep the living space clean.

 

[Seduce]

The way you describe your boyfriend reminds me very much of my ex husband.
He was too in all kind of emotional states about me...... quite genuine really.
And I was always worrying about upseting him or making him sad....... etc.

In fact, it took me almost 16 years to realise that he was (maybe even unconsciously) manipulating me.
When I decided to leave him he turned into monster....... if he ever loved me a little bit he could never act the way he did.

Now I know that he is just plain egoist and manipulator and such a great actor that he actually convinces himself in role he is playing.

You are young, you love him. It is all very fine and I wish you the very best.
But be careful, please.

 

[Pleasureboy2]

looks like everyone's opinion is based on personal experience, as I would expect. My opinion ( and keep in mind it is only MY opinion) is also based on my experience. I had a very similar thing happen to me. When my SO did something similar ( I am not going into details because my SO, who is also my wife has not given me permission to tell the story) I got very upset and felt hurt. However, when we discussed it and laid down some ground rules, I was okay after that and we both now agree on what is acceptable and what is out of bounds. I believe it helped our relationship just discussing the issue and what we expect from each other.

bi, I hope you can work things out with him as it seems like you love him very much.

 

[bisexplicit]

well, you don't "fix" co-dependence, bi. you try to work with it, believe me. :>

i've been trying very hard not to say something that's going to make you feel the need to skim past my posts, b/c i think you know what i think, even though i haven't actually come out and said it. right now, i'm just trying to be supportive. :>

[gives bi a big hug]

ed

That was scary how that described me almost perfectly...
And thank you for being supportive, I really apperciate that...because I'm fairly sure I do know what you're thinking and for me, right now, it wouldn't be helpful if you said it.

Another update: (God, how self-absorbed am I, though, really? like people care about all this. Actually, you do all seem to care, which is incredibly nice of you - especially to be concerned about, give advice to, a stranger.) Anyway, he basically has said that hes willing to do whatever it takes to keep me around...and I know it will take a lot of work, but I truly think that the thought of losing me might be enough to inspire him to take a good long look at this. Personally, I'm already starting to try to supress feelings of basically trying to jump to his aide, but its difficult. Fortunately, I have my own therapist that should be able to help with this (because, I tend to get overly involved and try to "save" everyone, not just him...hes different, though 'cause he seems to want me in that role as well.)

Anyway, I'm going out tonight with my friends and I'm going to just try to put this all aside and have fun.

 

[bisexplicit]

The way you describe your boyfriend reminds me very much of my ex husband.
He was too in all kind of emotional states about me...... quite genuine really.
And I was always worrying about upseting him or making him sad....... etc.

In fact, it took me almost 16 years to realise that he was (maybe even unconsciously) manipulating me.
When I decided to leave him he turned into monster....... if he ever loved me a little bit he could never act the way he did.

Now I know that he is just plain egoist and manipulator and such a great actor that he actually convinces himself in role he is playing.

You are young, you love him. It is all very fine and I wish you the very best.
But be careful, please.

Thank you for sharing your story. If you're anything like me, it probably is difficult to talk about (the anonminity of this place helps some, though). I sincerely hope that thats not how my boyfriend is, because he really seemed genuinely concerned when I talked about how some of his behaviors can be somewhat controlling.
By the way, I'm very impressed by your strength and courage to leave a relationship that wasn't healthy for you.

 

[silverwhisper]

i'm fairly sure i do know what you're thinking and for me, right now, it wouldn't be helpful if you said it.

the art of being supportive: knowing when to shut the fuck up. :>

i'm going out tonight with my friends and i'm going to just try to put this all aside and have fun.

good for you! have a great time tonight! :>

ed

 

[bisexplicit]

the art of being supportive: knowing when to shut the fuck up. :>


good for you! have a great time tonight! :>

ed

Thank you. You rock at being a big brother. hehe.