how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

[Jean Val Jean]

Hey TGF.

Nothing has changed since the time of Jefferson.

Barbary Pirates. Europe's tactic? Pay them off.

The United States' tactic? Send the Marines!

Urrah!

 

[Jean Val Jean]

Libya is our bitch...

tee hee
tee hee

 

[Jean Val Jean]

From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli...


...

 

[chazman]

The US pays a good 50% of the total funding to run the U.N.
Which happens to be the most pathetic and crooked organization out there...
Their leader Mr Coffee bean spends the majority of his day charging up tabs at exclusive restaurants around NY and sucking up to people.

The UN is incapable of solving a world crisis and has never solved a major world conflict, never will because it's mind set is like boxed into the flower power days of peace and love which never works........

I say stop the funding and get throw out of of NY altogether, they're an insult to the people of NY and to themselve's.......

 

[bluestocking]

There is something sweetly naive about seeing Americans (from the most powerful country on earth) blaming the UN (which is has held in contempt for as long as it has been in existence) for the ills of the world.

Why don't we all grow up and blame ourselves for the self-serving politicans we vote into office?

 

[Borscht]

I suspect the US has been a willing participant in many policing actions because it improves their international profile and offers ideal on the job training for the military during peace time rather than playing silly war games at home.... and the actual extra cost is not significant because the infrastructure already is bought and paid for ..... and it fits with their illusion that they run the world.

Let's not forget that the US did used to be an admirable(ish) nation.

Take Kosovo, for example. What happened there didn't really affect America's self interest one way or another.

The only reason they got involved was because they had both power and morality.

Nowadays, of course, the 'land of the free' is just one more evil empire. Its contempt for life is so great that, not only has it murdered and tortured tens of thousands of Iraqis, but it doesn't even bother to equip its own soldiers with proper armour !

Fuck it.

Where's my RPG ?

 

[lavender]

There are few subjects Americans are more completely ignorant about than the United Nations.

This thread simply proves that point, over and over and over again.

Just as an aside, the info about the oil-for-food scandal mostly comes from that bastion of truth - Chalabi.

 

[Lasher]

Just as an aside, the info about the oil-for-food scandal mostly comes from that bastion of truth - Chalabi.

Did you read the Duerfel report, Lavy?

 

[lavender]

Did you read the Duerfel report, Lavy?

I'm not saying that a scandal does not exist - but most of the information that people rely on re: oil for food comes directly from Chalabi's organization. We need to be really skeptical about info provided by Chalabi and his cohorts.

And no, I haven't had the chance to read the Duerfel report yet. I have been crazy busy this week. I've downloaded it and am waiting to have some down time to read it.

I have read parts of the report - and some re: the oil for food scandal.

 

[Lasher]

I'm not saying that a scandal does not exist - but most of the information that people rely on re: oil for food comes directly from Chalabi's organization.

The new information in the Duerfel report doesn't come from Chalabi.

I've read close to 1000 of the 1500 pages of the report and have yet to see Chalabi's name listed.

People are completely missing the importance of the report. The UN process was completely subverted. It's throughly disgusting that because of the election and the political leanings of the mainstream media that the real story is being ignored here.

 

[lavender]

they let inspections go on for years, writing resolution after resolution

And the Duerfel report said the inspections were working. So did almost every nuclear prolif expert in the world - see Scott Ritter's writing on the subject OR the info provided by David Kay. They both worked, at one time, at the International Atomic Energy Agency - the organization of the United Nations responsible for inspections.

i think they should also be held accountable for the runaway terrorism in the world

Why? What have they done wrong in this area? This is just an assertion with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

what the hell good is the UN if they won't ever really do anything?

The UN has a system of checks and balances in place set up by the permanent Security Council members, primarily. These checks and balances significantly limit the ability of the United Nations. The United States, specifically, has been at the forefront of limiting the ability of the UN to do anything. So how can we, as Americans, bitch about UN power, when our government is responsible by and large for the weak nature of the United Nations in many areas?

the securities council and atomic energy commission were created to control nuclear weapons proliferations....

For the most part, they have done a very good job. The NPT treaty - Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty - was put into existence in 1970. It has been quite effective in many ways in stopping the spread of nuclear weapons. Through the work of this treaty and the UN, South Africa admitted to a program and ceased and desisted all operations.

The UN and the IAEA have been at the forefront of knowledge about Iraq, Iran and North Korean nuclear capabilities.

The UN does not have the teeth as an organization - due to the checks and balances - to do much, militarily, without the unanimous approval of the P5 members of the Security Council.

The fact that in 34 years of the NPT such few nations have gained nuclear capabilities is quite an example of UN success - not failure.

well, they pretty much fucked that up too

How? Give me concrete examples? Provide something more than an assertion that has absolutely no meat behind it.

I could come here and say, the United Nations is responsible for not preventing the attacks of 9/11. But, without any proof, any examples, and any facts whatsoever I would look like a complete fool.

what does the UN and securities council actually do?

I should not have to be your teacher. Learn for yourself. I'll provide an outline by just listing organizations. You do your own research. You obviously do not know WHAT the United Nations does but feel the need to mouth off about it ad nauseum.

I'm not going to do research so I'm going to miss a bunch, these are off the top of my head:

UNESCO
UNICEF
UN High Commissioner for Refugees
UN Human Rights Commission
UN International Development Organization
International Atomic Energy Agency
UN Development Program
UN Environmental Program
Security Council
GA Plenary
GA 1
GA2
GA 3
GA 4
International Court of Justice
International Monetary Fund
World Bank
Economic and Social Plenary Committees
International Crimintal Tribunals for the Former Yugoslavia and Rwanda

Then don't forget the peacekeeping missions of the UN that are either going or were going in the 90s.

Kashmir
Cyprus
Tajikistan
Nagorno-Karabakh
Georgia
Liberia
Somalia
Rwanda
Former Yugoslavia

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

they've been in place since the 1940's and they haven't done a very good job at all

Once again, no examples, no facts. What reasoning do you have for saying this?

I can agree that in its first 40 years the United Nations wasn't able to do a helluva lot. But that was because of the geopolitical nature of the Cold War.

 

[thegirlfriday11]

So basically this is defensive reaction to the fact that the US has been villified as of late so, time to lay the spotlight on someone else?

Woody has been handing out good responses so far to most of if not all of your questions. Edit: And to a certain extent I do share your frustration with the UN and it's intended affectiveness in world affairs.

no

i want to know why world leaders can't get their shit together and cooperate

all woody has done is try to blame america in the traditional british fashion, when they're every bit as guilty as any other country out there

 

[CoolBlue74]

no

i want to know why world leaders can't get their shit together and cooperate

all woody has done is try to blame america in the traditional british fashion, when they're every bit as guilty as any other country out there

You're so fucking hot.

 

[thegirlfriday11]

Hey TGF.

Nothing has changed since the time of Jefferson.

Barbary Pirates. Europe's tactic? Pay them off.

The United States' tactic? Send the Marines!

Urrah!

in 200 years the US went from being undeveloped land to the strongest world power

we help many other countries, saved france and englands asses a few times

i think the ungrateful bastards are still pissed we left them in the 1700's

 

[thegirlfriday11]

There is something sweetly naive about seeing Americans (from the most powerful country on earth) blaming the UN (which is has held in contempt for as long as it has been in existence) for the ills of the world.

Why don't we all grow up and blame ourselves for the self-serving politicans we vote into office?

those elected officials are part of the world government

all elected officials around the globe are responsible for not being able to cooperate

fuck...children can figure out how to get along but world leaders can't

it's pathetic

 

[thegirlfriday11]

Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

And the Duerfel report said the inspections were working. So did almost every nuclear prolif expert in the world - see Scott Ritter's writing on the subject OR the info provided by David Kay. They both worked, at one time, at the International Atomic Energy Agency - the organization of the United Nations responsible for inspections.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think they should also be held accountable for the runaway terrorism in the world
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why? What have they done wrong in this area? This is just an assertion with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

Under the Charter, the functions and powers of the Security Council are:

to maintain international peace and security in accordance with the principles and purposes of the United Nations;

to investigate any dispute or situation which mightlead to international friction;

to recommend methods of adjusting such disputes or the terms of settlement;

to formulate plans for the establishment of a system to regulate armaments;

to determine the existence of a threat to the peace or act of aggression and to recommend what action should be taken;

to call on Members to apply economic sanctions and other measures not involving the use of force to prevent or stop aggression;

to take military action against an aggressor;

to recommend the admission of new Members;

to exercise the trusteeship functions of the United Nations in "strategic areas";

to recommend to the GeneralAssembly the appointment of the Secretary-General and, together with the Assembly, to elect the Judges of the International Court of Justice.

because it's the UN's job to monitor and prevent terrorist activities
that's why

i'll answer the rest when i get back today
i've got a gig to go play

The UN has a system of checks and balances in place set up by the permanent Security Council members, primarily. These checks and balances significantly limit the ability of the United Nations. The United States, specifically, has been at the forefront of limiting the ability of the UN to do anything. So how can we, as Americans, bitch about UN power, when our government is responsible by and large for the weak nature of the United Nations in many areas?



For the most part, they have done a very good job. The NPT treaty - Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty - was put into existence in 1970. It has been quite effective in many ways in stopping the spread of nuclear weapons. Through the work of this treaty and the UN, South Africa admitted to a program and ceased and desisted all operations.

The UN and the IAEA have been at the forefront of knowledge about Iraq, Iran and North Korean nuclear capabilities.

The UN does not have the teeth as an organization - due to the checks and balances - to do much, militarily, without the unanimous approval of the P5 members of the Security Council.

The fact that in 34 years of the NPT such few nations have gained nuclear capabilities is quite an example of UN success - not failure.



How? Give me concrete examples? Provide something more than an assertion that has absolutely no meat behind it.

I could come here and say, the United Nations is responsible for not preventing the attacks of 9/11. But, without any proof, any examples, and any facts whatsoever I would look like a complete fool.



I should not have to be your teacher. Learn for yourself. I'll provide an outline by just listing organizations. You do your own research. You obviously do not know WHAT the United Nations does but feel the need to mouth off about it ad nauseum.

I'm not going to do research so I'm going to miss a bunch, these are off the top of my head:

UNESCO
UNICEF
UN High Commissioner for Refugees
UN Human Rights Commission
UN International Development Organization
International Atomic Energy Agency
UN Development Program
UN Environmental Program
Security Council
GA Plenary
GA 1
GA2
GA 3
GA 4
International Court of Justice
International Monetary Fund
World Bank
Economic and Social Plenary Committees
International Crimintal Tribunals for the Former Yugoslavia and Rwanda

Then don't forget the peacekeeping missions of the UN that are either going or were going in the 90s.

Kashmir
Cyprus
Tajikistan
Nagorno-Karabakh
Georgia
Liberia
Somalia
Rwanda
Former Yugoslavia

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.




Once again, no examples, no facts. What reasoning do you have for saying this?

I can agree that in its first 40 years the United Nations wasn't able to do a helluva lot. But that was because of the geopolitical nature of the Cold War.

i don't need you to educate me on the subject of the UN
i took elective history classes last year...history of nuclear weapons development and history of the UN securities council...i got A's in both

the UN still doesn't do what it should and if world leaders are going to be questioned, i want all of them question

it is utterly ridiculous the way people are blaming the US for the state of the world

 

[Borscht]

Re: Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

it is utterly ridiculous the way people are blaming the US for the state of the world

No.

But it is ridiculous to expect the US to take responsibility for the countless civilians it's murdered, maimed and tortured in Iraq.

Like the good Germans who ran Aushwitz today's good Americans know that, deep down, they're really the good guys ( regardless of how many atrocities they commit).

That's why they're so desperate to find scapegoats, like the UN.

Damn.

Where is my RPG ?

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

i don't need you to educate me on the subject of the UN
i took elective history classes last year...history of nuclear weapons development and history of the UN securities council...i got A's in both

Bwahahaaaa. We've got a bona fide college student here, folks.

I got straight A's in chemistry and biology in college. Thanks for reminding me of that. I think I'll go cure cancer this afternoon.

 

[lavender]

Re: Re: Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

Bwahahaaaa. We've got a bona fide college student here, folks.

I got straight A's in chemistry and biology in college. Thanks for reminding me of that. I think I'll go cure cancer this afternoon.

I should get some of the profits as a response to my post inspired you to go cure cancer, after all.

 

[lavender]

If someone is quoting As in classes, do we need to start posting the applicable portions of our resumes to back up what we say on this board?

LOL

I took two classes in college on it... hahahaha.

Yeah me too. Just two. And academic experience is all I have in the field. *nods*

Btw, reading material gets you as far as coursework.

Coursework in the field - unless it's something that requires special understanding or certification, etc. - makes you no more knowledgeable than the average well-read Joe.

 

[woody54]

all woody has done is try to blame america in the traditional british fashion, when they're every bit as guilty as any other country out there

Err, no, that was not my intent to blame America but when you hold America up as some bastion of greatness to deride what, is in effect, just a club to get people to be nice to each other, then you need some realities explained to you.

The US has done very creditiable work through the UN but , of recent times. it has been politically expedient to deride the organisation because it does not endorse some US directions.

The UN is hugely influenced by the US, and this administration has chosen to treat it as redundant, because they would never endorse the Iraq war.
As it is, 95 % of the world population did NOT join the Cpoalition in Iraq, this tells you something important about the anti-UN movement in the US and the worlds acceptance of the use of pre-emption as a primary intervention tool.

The real truth is that the Americans have run off the rails that they themselves expect everyone else to be on. The UN is the main forum to discuss this openly.

 

[Guest]

i don't need you to educate me on the subject of the UN
i took elective history classes last year...history of nuclear weapons development and history of the UN securities council...i got A's in both

Yet Dumb enough to think you need to post this

 

[woody54]

Re: Re: Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

Bwahahaaaa.
I got straight A's in chemistry and biology in college. Thanks for reminding me of that. I think I'll go cure cancer this afternoon.

.......Bwahahaaaa.

Sorry buddy but that honour has been attributed to a bigger FISH round here

 

[woody54]

Re: Re: Re: how come nobody is busting the UN's chops?

i don't need you to educate me on the subject of the UN

the UN still doesn't do what it should and if world leaders are going to be questioned, i want all of them question

it is utterly ridiculous the way people are blaming the US for the state of the world

I am sorry but "A's" have not improved your grip of where the UN fits into International politics. It is a talking forum primarily.

The UN will ONLY do what consensus politics allow it to and it is totally reliant on member states to undertake any actions it approves.

What part of that do you not understand when relating it to the US? Member countries do the hard work and the US has been a leader in this effort but dont bitch about it now because it was always voluntary.

The US has taken a major responsibility in UN affairs befitting their super-power status, this "UN is shit" problem has only arisen since Bush's administration chose a different path in international relations that is percieved as self interest and definitely not community minded.
This the hallmark of a rogue nation by any definition.

Is it any wonder the Bushites dont want to hear the worlds opinions?

 

[Adrenaline]

I do not know enough about the UN, despite taking one or two courses related to it, to comfortably argue completely for or against it although I think that girlfriday has a rather skewed view of its aims and what it has accomplished. I just have a two points to air.

First while it is tempting to find a scapegoat for the current round of terrorism occuring around the world I think it is taking a ridiculously simplistic view to blame the UN for all of it. They certainly weren't the cause of it, and I doubt they could just charge into any troubled country and take matters into hand.

I also think that believing that the USA is being blamed for the state is taking a rather narrow view of things. Anyone who has done a bit of world history and travelled would know that Britain is as maligned in various parts of the world. As you said yourself, the US is a relatively young country.

It just seems to me that while you may have your problems with the UN (and who doesn't?)I remain skeptical of your opinions because of the overall defensive ra-ra America tone from the outset. This is understandable since anti-Americanism has become en vogue but doesn't help your argument. Better to simply lay out the facts, as people have as many legitimate problems with the US as they do with the UN.