Hot or not - grooming your perfect partner

[Primalex]

How do humans get their perfect partner? The current level could be called "try & error" and it's not very reliable. A terrible waste of time and resources and emotional and physical energy.

Black Mirror showed the ethical next level of dating in Hang the DJ. Gattaca explored the definition of a perfect partner.

But grooming humans for various purposes has been a movie plot for quite some time. It started with creating clones of one particular individual to replace said individual, then trying to do this with all humanity (Body Snatchers) and finally we have reached Level 16 and I Am Mother level of grooming humans.

Grooming your perfect partner seems to be the next domino.

So, would you sign up to meet your perfect partner? sponsored by FaveMate® your #1 grooming solution of the 22nd century.

 

[twister947]

I barely understand the question, so, probably not.

 

[IrisAlthea]

How do humans get their perfect partner? The current level could be called "try & error" and it's not very reliable. A terrible waste of time and resources and emotional and physical energy.

Black Mirror showed the ethical next level of dating in Hang the DJ. Gattaca explored the definition of a perfect partner.

But grooming humans for various purposes has been a movie plot for quite some time. It started with creating clones of one particular individual to replace said individual, then trying to do this with all humanity (Body Snatchers) and finally we have reached Level 16 and I Am Mother level of grooming humans.

Grooming your perfect partner seems to be the next domino.

So, would you sign up to meet your perfect partner? sponsored by FaveMate® your #1 grooming solution of the 22nd century.

Syncronicity. I’m reading Yuval Noah Harari's 21 Lessons for the 21st Century. He writes among other things about the development of AI and biotechnology and how that will influence our society:

It turned out that our choices in everything from food to mates result not from some mysterious free will, but rather from billions of neurons calculating probabilities.

He then goes on to note that our algotithms are rather out of date and ineffective and that AI could probably do better, if not now then soon.

The partner finding method we use in the western world now is not universal at all looking over time and geography. Having your parents or some matchmaker do it for you is still a reality for lots of people and seems to work for some. Getting AI assistance might be a smaller step then perhaps.

For me, the Black Mirror/Gattaca question is: Do I get to choose if I want that service and what is the cost of opting out?

Would I want to use it? I don’t know.
There seems to be some spark of divinity/whackiness in some matches.
Looking at times when partners were essentially groomed to fit roles, that fit together, people still ended up unhappy and longing for someone quite different.

 

[Primalex]

Do I get to choose if I want that service and what is the cost of opting out?

Hm. I guess the cost of opting out means you are reducing your dating pool to those who don't use FaveMate®, too. The size of the pool would depend on the (non-)acceptance of it - which is what I'm trying explore here.

Having your parents or some matchmaker do it for you is still a reality for lots of people and seems to work for some.

I didn't really think about that one before. But it is somehow like the same, just with a less controlled environment. The parents raise their child, know how they raised their child and the quirks and make an educated guess about who might fit. It's reverse grooming so to say - match the partner after the grooming process.

Looking at times when partners were essentially groomed to fit roles,

Yes, but they were groomed to fit roles, not individuals. Not to mention that there is a good chance that "personality" is not so much taken into account by the matchmakers than "status" and "wealth".

 

[IrisAlthea]

Hm. I guess the cost of opting out means you are reducing your dating pool to those who don't use FaveMate®, too. The size of the pool would depend on the (non-)acceptance of it

Picturing myself in some kind of future resistance/underground based on those in Demolition Man and Equilibrium…

The size of the pool would depend on the (non-)acceptance of it - which is what I'm trying explore here.

A future start up?

The parents raise their child, know how they raised their child and the quirks and make an educated guess about who might fit. It's reverse grooming so to say - match the partner after the grooming process.

In some cases probably groomed to fit together or chosen to balance each other out.

Yes, but they were groomed to fit roles, not individuals. Not to mention that there is a good chance that "personality" is not so much taken into account by the matchmakers than "status" and "wealth".

Good points.
And I think there needs to be a lot of clarity in this scheme about what is meant by the perfect partner. It would be sad to get personality when you were looking for status and wealth - a lot of people still do.

As always the problem is with data input.
People are rarely honest about what they really want, even to themselves.
From that perspective an AI getting input from what you actually do or how you react to things in life, would perhaps even be better at estimamating what would make you happy, like a digital Parker Pyne.
http://www.agathachristie.com/characters/parker-pyne

On the other hand, perfect tends to be the enemy of good and I’m not sure partner search is an area that is an ecception to the rule.

So, personally I might still go for future underground.
As a start up, I think it might work.

 

[Primalex]

and when does the grooming start? with their birth?

Likely, yes.

wouldn't that lead to molestation/child abuse?

Maybe. I mean, it might not be worse than very religious parents treat their child today. And then...for child abuse you have to define them as human children in the first place. In vitro humans might end up with less rights in the future.

 

[Primalex]

Picturing myself in some kind of future resistance/underground based on those in Demolition Man and Equilibrium…

PETA.

Hm, Emily Watson in Equilibrium was hot. [unfortunate pun]
But is "CEO of FaveMate® teams up with hot resistance leader to destroy his company" a plot that makes sense? Who is the villain then?

A future start up?

Only if they find a way to conserve my body long enough.

Good points.
And I think there needs to be a lot of clarity in this scheme about what is meant by the perfect partner. It would be sad to get personality when you were looking for status and wealth - a lot of people still do.

Hm. This is interesting, too. How would the top 0,1% react to this? Having the perfect partner bought makes a lot of sense - divorces are fucking expensive. But they might be seen as second class citizens and it might lower your status - and they don't come with wealth or status. Hm. You could groom partners that don't mind poly-relationships and create a harem. Yeah, I think the likely outcome is that they have a regular wife and just a harem of perfect partner toys.

As always the problem is with data input.
People are rarely honest about what they really want, even to themselves.
From that perspective an AI getting input from what you actually do or how you react to things in life, would perhaps even be better at estimamating what would make you happy, like a digital Parker Pyne.
http://www.agathachristie.com/characters/parker-pyne

On the other hand, perfect tends to be the enemy of good and I’m not sure partner search is an area that is an ecception to the rule.

Yes, this is true. The premise would be that the perfect partner is perfect for the individual; not adhering to some universal standard.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Hm, Emily Watson in Equilibrium was hot. [unfortunate pun]

Very unfortunate!

But is "CEO of FaveMate® teams up with hot resistance leader to destroy his company" a plot that makes sense?

Well, obviously she would have accidentally been logged into the FaveMate® system and they would have been matched.
Also, the resistance has bacon, beer and sex not approved by Big Brother. Resistance is futile.

Who is the villain then?

The ghost in the machine.
The Company has taken over and turned evil.

Having the perfect partner bought makes a lot of sense - divorces are fucking expensive. But they might be seen as second class citizens and it might lower your status - and they don't come with wealth or status.

Perhaps having time and bandwidth to find your partner through old fashioned stumbling around and bumping into them, will be the true luxury of the future.

The premise would be that the perfect partner is perfect for the individual; not adhering to some universal standard.

That would be a beautiful thing.

 

[Primalex]

Well, obviously she would have accidentally been logged into the FaveMate® system and they would have been matched.

Okay, that's a fucking great plot twist.

Also, the resistance has bacon, beer and sex not approved by Big Brother.

No, no. We need some moral dilemma in choosing a side.

Perhaps having time and bandwidth to find your partner through old fashioned stumbling around and bumping into them, will be the true luxury of the future.

I'm getting In Time vibes.

 

[Strixaluco]

Yes, this is true. The premise would be that the perfect partner is perfect for the individual; not adhering to some universal standard.

It would be a must. Men agree pretty well on what is desirable (as in physical appearance at least), womens opinions vary greatly. I've met women whose ideal man almost repulses me.

 

[Strixaluco]

There's the physical attraction part. How many great men have I refused just because they don't attract me... Most are eternally in the friend zone.

And them there is the mental and emotional part.

And all the rest, practical things. If one is wilting and the other thriving in hot climate, and vice versa in cold climate, the union won't ever really be happy.

I'm not sure one could ever plan it all so that it is works.

 

[Primalex]

these links show why i still feel odd about this:

It's supposed to make you uncomfortable.

 

[IrisAlthea]

No, no. We need some moral dilemma in choosing a side.

I forgot to mention the artsy, cultural parts of the Equilibrium resistance.
Throw in some pro-choice, poly, kink and people’s brains will start melting.
Hopefully we don’t cause rifts in the time-space continuum.

I'm getting In Time vibes

You are making my Netflix-list grow.

and when does the grooming start? with their birth? wouldn't that lead to molestation/child abuse? or

Maybe. I mean, it might not be worse than very religious parents treat their child today. And then...for child abuse you have to define them as human children in the first place. In vitro humans might end up with less rights in the future.

I think that is one of the most interesting questions in parenting/education. How far do you go in instilling values etc? When does it turn into ”grooming”? When are you removing the ability of the children to find their own way and learning from other by removing them to far from society? And on the other hand, should you just follow the lemmings if you think your own society’s values are off?

It's supposed to make you uncomfortable

And as for the in vitro and bio technology, people aren’t really uncomfortable enough by far:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa

Henrietta Lacks and the destiny of her cells is just the beginning.
What rights we may have to our own DNA and other information is going to have a huge influence on the future and it is not a safe, given.

Men agree pretty well on what is desirable (as in physical appearance at least), womens opinions vary greatly. I've met women whose ideal man almost repulses me.

Perhaps in the ”should be on the cover of the swimsuit issue” sense of desireable.
If we are talking ”attractive enough to me” is think it’s pretty much the same between genders.

And all the rest, practical things. If one is wilting and the other thriving in hot climate, and vice versa in cold climate, the union won't ever really be happy.

This is something I think is overlooked a lot, in the looking for Love method of partner search.

 

[Strixaluco]

Perhaps in the ”should be on the cover of the swimsuit issue” sense of desireable.
If we are talking ”attractive enough to me” is think it’s pretty much the same between genders.

But there you have to wrong, it is not the same. There's research on it. While you can easily find women who 95% often men find attractive, even 50% would be a very high number in the opposite case. Even for the ones elected as "sexiest men of..."

Men who my many of my friends find ideal leave me totally cold. Yes, looks nice but no attraction. Yet I am not looking for something rare, we just have different tastes.

Probably pretty much of that is biological. Women's body is looking for a good genetic match for the producing offspring.

 

[Primalex]

But there you have to wrong, it is not the same. There's research on it. While you can easily find women who 95% often men find attractive, even 50% would be a very high number in the opposite case. Even for the ones elected as "sexiest men of..."

Are you trying to tell me you will find 501/1000 women who will say that Henry Cavill is unattractive?

 

[Strixaluco]

Are you trying to tell me you will find 501/1000 women who will say that Henry Cavill is unattractive?

Apparently, yes, or at least close. I think I can even guess some. You won't find 95% agreeing on him being attractive.

And while I think he looks relatively attractive, I might not think so if I was close to him.

 

[Btq97]

Attractive is good. It ir what we are raised to chase/be. The tv advert attractive if you will.
But then personalities raise their heads, that super hotties is a racist/homophobe/ right wing religious nut job. But oh so very cute.
So we progress from physically to personal. Then coz we is kinky we hunt kink and if we are lucky very lucky we find the cute fun smart dirty partner that is perfect. And if we don't act like a self important fuck wit then perhaps we end up with a relationship thst lasts.

 

[Strixaluco]

What I find attractive in a photo and in real life is 2 different things. In real life things like smell (subconsciously noted) have a huge impact, and I've had a few men who weren't goodlooking really. Especially in someone elses eyes, but damn did I find them hot.

 

[Primalex]

Apparently, yes, or at least close. I think I can even guess some. You won't find 95% agreeing on him being attractive.

But 94%?

 

[Strixaluco]

But 94%?

You might at best find 70%. But even 50% is a high number when we talk about whom women find attractive.

 

[Primalex]

You are making my Netflix-list grow.

The best compliment I got this week.

 

[IrisAlthea]

there you have to wrong, it is not the same. There's research on it. While you can easily find women who 95% often men find attractive, even 50% would be a very high number in the opposite case. Even for the ones elected as "sexiest men of..."

I was really thinking more that men aren’t as of one mind as it might seem, when it comes down to real people.

Are you trying to tell me you will find 501/1000 women who will say that Henry Cavill is unattractive?

I mean, he might be noisy when eating or talkative in the morning or prone to some other mortal sin but unattractive would not be the word I’d choose.

The best compliment I got this week.

I actually quit watching Black Mirror just before Hang the DJ, because Arkangel got under my skin so bad. I knew so many who’d happily opt in and I sat like on needles all the way through because I could see so much go wrong.
And the feeling stayed.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Thinking about how it would influence culture, literature etc. when you don’t have to angst about whether to stay with Karenin or leave with Vronskij, how to coalesce sense and sensibility and how to mitigate the clash between pride and predjudice?
I guess we will still have Josef K fighting the faceless and bureaucratic FaveMate®?

 

[Primalex]

Thinking about how it would influence culture, literature etc. when you don’t have to angst about whether to stay with Karenin or leave with Vronskij, how to coalesce sense and sensibility and how to mitigate the clash between pride and predjudice?
I guess we will still have Josef K fighting the faceless and bureaucratic FaveMate®?

Well, I guess Brazil would still work.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Well, I guess Brazil would still work.

God, yes.
Kafka and Orwell through the Monty Python lens.