Holocaust Tour

[ImOnIt]

Maths and a bit of application is ridiculously important. Throw in some maths terms, however incorrectly and your average-to-dumb reader could take absurd claims as properly justified.

In our town, year 2001, there was one bag stolen per month. This year there have been twenty four bags stolen! The crime rate has doubled! We are half as moral as we were ten years ago! Society is in SPIRALLING DECLINE! In ten more years, there will be forty eight bags stolen per year! That will be 400% more crime than when I was a child! It's all because of current issue.

The other thing that really disgusted me is getting to college and finding out that i , and everyone else, was required to take a class on how to write an essay, because they no longer have any expectation that we'll arrive to college with that skill. That is disgusting. What the fuck is wrong with our educational system that we think three years of studying for the SAT is a better preperation for college than learning how to write an essay??

Another view is that you are far better prepared than your competition. There is very little so disheartening as being taught something you already know.

 

[teknight]

Well, I will freely admit that I'm pretty atrocious at math. But I'm of the opinion that unless you are majoring in something science-y or math-related, you probably don't have much use for anything above high school level math. But I think that being able to critically analyze what you read and see and hear is an incredibly important skill for everybody, especially in our media saturated culture. But again, I'll freely admit that I'm biased here, and might have a different opinion of the situation if I was better at math. At the moment I'm struggling through an intro level statistics course, and it's kicking my ass.

I admit it's as much a pet peeve for me as anything else. I'm not saying you have to be able to solve a double integral to understand the world, but I can't help but think that someone that can't do basic math (especially if they're unwilling to put in the effort) can't rationally analyze facts. Again, math skills aren't everything, but I'm dubious of what they mean.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not really a fan of Michael Moore, but I thought this was great.

Michael Moore is a horse's ass.

The Supreme Court will determine what can or can't be done about Phelps' tactics. As for the anti-gay message itself, focusing on Phelps is just a distraction.

The real problem is that so many Americans tolerate hate when it's wrapped in an allegedly respectable package. As VS says, even the non-homophobic make excuses. "Nobody agrees with the person they vote for on every issue." Or.... "I'm just one Catholic. If I walk out of my church, it won't change the Pope's opinion."

Universal condemnation of Phelps is rooted in the fact that he pickets funerals. If condemnation of the message itself were that widespread, no anti-gay politician would ever get elected, and many churches would have no members.

 

[DVS]

Michael Moore is a horse's ass.

The Supreme Court will determine what can or can't be done about Phelps' tactics. As for the anti-gay message itself, focusing on Phelps is just a distraction.

The real problem is that so many Americans tolerate hate when it's wrapped in an allegedly respectable package. As VS says, even the non-homophobic make excuses. "Nobody agrees with the person they vote for on every issue." Or.... "I'm just one Catholic. If I walk out of my church, it won't change the Pope's opinion."

Universal condemnation of Phelps is rooted in the fact that he pickets funerals. If condemnation of the message itself were that widespread, no anti-gay politician would ever get elected, and many churches would have no members.

The supreme court has and will continue to support Phelp's right of free speech. Unless somebody can put a new slant on the free speech law by saying free speech isn't entitled if it has no purpose other than to fuel hatred. The Kansas AG is trying to do something like that.

If nothing changes in the law, Phelps will have the right to step on the flag, bash gays, torment funerals and pretty much counter most anything good, just because he does have that right. Buffer zones and police protection will continue to be the only consolation.

So, I take it you didn't enjoy the video? I thought it was funny. No, it won't change anything, but it's nice to see the Phelps family deal with a pink bus load of flaming gays.

Oh, and by the way...we in the mid-west don't consider Phelps just a distraction. He's given the local kinky community trouble for a long time. You people in the rest of the country are just getting a taste of what we've put up with for years. I'm sorry to say this, but thank goodness they have moved on to national events. They used to picket restaurants that allowed local BDSM groups to have munches to the point the venues stopped allowing them for fear of losing customers. We are in the bible belt.

 

[BiBunny]

Slightly off topic here: I tutor math, and there are people going into college (and outta college) who can't do basic math. It seems to me like asking for accurate media analysis might be a reach, at least for a subset of the population. The two don't perfectly go hand in hand, but one does wonder.

It's not just math that people are horrible at. You have a much, much better command of the English language than most native speakers. I used to tutor English when I was an undergrad, and I can't tell you how many times I wanted to smash people's faces through the wall for being such idiots. How can you teach someone who has, for her entire life, thought "he are" and "they is" and "I has" are correct? And how in the name of God did that person get to college?

Oh, and the kicker? That person was an education major. And she graduated that semester. So now we have this moron out there teaching other people's children. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the educational system in this country sucks.

/rant

 

[teknight]

It's not just math that people are horrible at. You have a much, much better command of the English language than most native speakers. I used to tutor English when I was an undergrad, and I can't tell you how many times I wanted to smash people's faces through the wall for being such idiots. How can you teach someone who has, for her entire life, thought "he are" and "they is" and "I has" are correct? And how in the name of God did that person get to college?

Oh, and the kicker? That person was an education major. And she graduated that semester. So now we have this moron out there teaching other people's children. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the educational system in this country sucks.

/rant

I know there are a bunch of teachers on this site (naughty teachers- the hot female ones, go to my room! ), so I wanna tread carefully- but I have to say, I've seen too many ed. majors just like that. Unfortunately, for a ton of reasons, a lot of poor quality students wind up in education, which doesn't bode well for the future.

And thank for the vote of confidence on my English skills. Should I mention that I scored in the 99th percentile on the GRE verbal section?

 

[BiBunny]

I know there are a bunch of teachers on this site (naughty teachers- the hot female ones, go to my room! ), so I wanna tread carefully- but I have to say, I've seen too many ed. majors just like that. Unfortunately, for a ton of reasons, a lot of poor quality students wind up in education, which doesn't bode well for the future.

And thank for the vote of confidence on my English skills. Should I mention that I scored in the 99th percentile on the GRE verbal section?

LOL, beats the shit out of what I made on the GRE verbal section, and I have 3/4ths of a master's in English. Of course, I also took it at 8 am and didn't give a shit, but even if I'd taken it at a reasonable hour and DID give a shit, you still beat what I'd have made.

It's looking like I'm going to be able to start on the 3 classes I need to finish this master's in the Spring, or possibly the Summer. Hell, yes!

 

[VelvetSin]

Michael Moore is a horse's ass.

The Supreme Court will determine what can or can't be done about Phelps' tactics. As for the anti-gay message itself, focusing on Phelps is just a distraction.

The real problem is that so many Americans tolerate hate when it's wrapped in an allegedly respectable package. As VS says, even the non-homophobic make excuses. "Nobody agrees with the person they vote for on every issue." Or.... "I'm just one Catholic. If I walk out of my church, it won't change the Pope's opinion."

Universal condemnation of Phelps is rooted in the fact that he pickets funerals. If condemnation of the message itself were that widespread, no anti-gay politician would ever get elected, and many churches would have no members.

This 100%, from Michael Moore's asshattery to an overall issue of packaging.

While Moore's video was amusing in its delivery, what did it ultimately do? How did it benefit anyone? It's packaging was good I guess, but what did it accomplish? They're two sides of the same coin IMO, simply spouting different messages so they can "be seen" to make a buck.

Moore is in it to get his face out there and seems like he'll do whatever it takes just to make sure people know who he is. He's a hypocrite. His Capitalism: A Love Story was the ninth highest grossing documentary in history, but didn't he keep his substantial share of the profits? Isn't that capitalism? From what I've read, all his films have grossed over $300 million and he received a substantial portion of it. Publicity is his thing, and this is no different in my eyes. He saw an opportunity to put his face out there so people would remember him when his next film comes out, so he can go for the eighth highest grossing spot to add to his fortune.

Phelps makes his money by being antagonistic until he or one of his people gets a reaction that's lawsuit-worthy, whether it be prevented to picket somewhere or someone gets hit. They sue people for profit. There's a reason he forced most of his children to go into law. Nate Phelps, the estranged son of Fred, has mentioned the history of his father many times. How he started out as a lawyer that struggled to get admitted to the bar and then was suspended and later disbarred. He put his own children in harm's way to make money when he no longer could by selling candy in bars and strip clubs. He's a parasite that uses people and their emotions for profit and to breed hate.

Phelps was (is?) violent and abusive to his family in a way that would turn most of our stomachs. Nate's speeches share an interesting tale and sheds a lot of light on the inner workings of that congregation. There are a handful of others that have left the church/family and spoken out. Given the few tales told by the few people to have left, I wonder how much of WBC's internal magnetism is fear and intimidation versus sincere devotion. How many others in that small congregation are only there out of fear of abandonment by their own family (because leaving the church results in disowning by the entire family), or fear for their safety if they say or do anything else.

Thing is, isn't it scary that when he ran for governor in Kansas in 1990, he got 6.7% of the votes for the Democratic primary? When he ran for Senate in 1992, he got 30.8% of the Democratic primary votes. That's how someone goes from being a loudmouth waste of oxygen to being a person capable of making terrible things a reality. If someone with his reputation can earn those votes even in a primary, it's very possible someone with a more polished public facade with equally unpleasant opinions could win a seat and have the ability to make legislation to push their agenda.

I can't really decide what my opinion is on the Supreme Court case. I'm a firm believer in free speech, but they go beyond "free speech" I think. In 2006, the ACLU defended WBC and their right to picket soldier's funerals, and was successful in lifting a ban that merely prevented protests from an hour before to an hour after a funeral took place. In this case, no matter what the Supreme Court finds, I think we'll all lose. Either free speech is limited due to the hate messages of a few, or WBC is allowed to continue.

 

[ImOnIt]

I can't really decide what my opinion is on the Supreme Court case. I'm a firm believer in free speech, but they go beyond "free speech" I think. In 2006, the ACLU defended WBC and their right to picket soldier's funerals, and was successful in lifting a ban that merely prevented protests from an hour before to an hour after a funeral took place. In this case, no matter what the Supreme Court finds, I think we'll all lose. Either free speech is limited due to the hate messages of a few, or WBC is allowed to continue.

Free speech is about voice and opinion, which is completely different to harassment and abuse. I have heard that these people are confrontational, aggressive savages who shout about their own rights at the same time as they intrude upon funerals with blatant disrespect for the soldiers' families.

I think a gesture of solidarity from the community in the face of WBC hate would be a powerful and appropriate response. Perhaps the entire funeral could turn their backs to protesters or stand arm in arm or something.

Heres a quote from wikipedia which shows about how much sense you might expect to encounter with WBC

While being filmed by documentary film-maker Louis Theroux, they picketed a local appliance store because it sold Swedish vacuum cleaners, which the church viewed as supportive of gays because of Swedish prosecution of Åke Green, a pastor critical of homosexuality.

 

[VelvetSin]

Free speech is about voice and opinion, which is completely different to harassment and abuse. I have heard that these people are confrontational, aggressive savages who shout about their own rights at the same time as they intrude upon funerals with blatant disrespect for the soldiers' families.

I think a gesture of solidarity from the community in the face of WBC hate would be a powerful and appropriate response. Perhaps the entire funeral could turn their backs to protesters or stand arm in arm or something.

Heres a quote from wikipedia which shows about how much sense you might expect to encounter with WBC

Oh no, I know that they are hateful, harassing, and abusive. I'm convinced the sole reason they go out and do what they do is to spread hate and anger until someone gets upset enough to hit one of them, or arrested by an officer perhaps too upset to read 100% of their Miranda Rights or without cause, or their protest gets shut down without legal cause so they can file another lawsuit. For a small congregation with less than 100 people in it (most of whom are family by marriage), they have an entire law firm amongst them to handle the results of their activities. That seems to be their goal, and other than the work income and "tithes" from the congregation, winnings from lawsuits is where their money comes from. They put their minor children right on the front lines because if one of them gets hurt or trampled, it's big money.

Unfortunately, they use the law to their benefit. They know the law well and often go just as far as they're technically allowed. Due to free speech as it is currently interpreted, that's pretty far, or at least that's how the courts have ruled quite often. Considering how often they go out and protest and spread their hate messages, the number of successful lawsuits against them due to their overstepping the law is pretty low. That's the main reason I'm torn about this case. If the Supreme Court finds against them, the implications of that mean a limit to free speech due to some of the specifics of the case. Media, protesting, religion, and speech in general could all pay the price for their actions. If they find for them and continue to uphold the current interpretations of First Amendment, WBC continues to spread hate.

 

[00Syd]

Maths and a bit of application is ridiculously important. Throw in some maths terms, however incorrectly and your average-to-dumb reader could take absurd claims as properly justified.

In our town, year 2001, there was one bag stolen per month. This year there have been twenty four bags stolen! The crime rate has doubled! We are half as moral as we were ten years ago! Society is in SPIRALLING DECLINE! In ten more years, there will be forty eight bags stolen per year! That will be 400% more crime than when I was a child! It's all because of current issue.

No, no, I'm with you. But that's all high school level stuff. The problem isn't that people aren't doing math in college, it's that they aren't learning what they need to learn in high school. And I will readily admit that I am one of those people. I never made it out of elementary school, math-wise, and it sucks. But college level math, and higher, should be a choice, IMO, not a requierment. I should be doing remedial math, not college-level math.

Another view is that you are far better prepared than your competition. There is very little so disheartening as being taught something you already know.

It's just depressing. Knowing how to write an essay shouldn't make me better prepared. Everyone should know that.

 

[Etoile]

No, no, I'm with you. But that's all high school level stuff. The problem isn't that people aren't doing math in college, it's that they aren't learning what they need to learn in high school. And I will readily admit that I am one of those people. I never made it out of elementary school, math-wise, and it sucks. But college level math, and higher, should be a choice, IMO, not a requierment. I should be doing remedial math, not college-level math.






It's just depressing. Knowing how to write an essay shouldn't make me better prepared. Everyone should know that.

It's not about writing an essay. It's about critical thinking and being able to express your thoughts in writing. Not everybody is cut out for the former. Sure, in an ideal world, we'd all be brilliant and eloquent. But some people are just not able to do that. College teaches those who can, how to harnesses that.

 

[teknight]

It's not about writing an essay. It's about critical thinking and being able to express your thoughts in writing. Not everybody is cut out for the former. Sure, in an ideal world, we'd all be brilliant and eloquent. But some people are just not able to do that. College teaches those who can, how to harnesses that.

You're absolutely right, but it is annoying that people need remedial classes- which is what 00syd seems to be complaining about.

Trying to get this thread back on track, whilst keeping to the education theme:
Can schooling help to dispel the bigotry that ends in such things as the holocaust?
I believe if you were to look at those countries where such things have occurred (genocide, etc) you'll notice a distinct lack of a middle class (feel free to offer counterexamples). Education can (at least in theory) lift more boats, by making workers more productive (and increasing capital through creativity*, etc.) Of course, that's very macro econ of me to say, and it's by no means the sole explanation.

Although, you do have things like this happening. Four teens at one Ohio HS killed themselves as a result of bullying....
Of course, that's happening in one school, and it's not part of the curriculum. But could tolerance be taught? Bigotry can quite easily be taught...

 

[JMohegan]

Michael Moore is a horse's ass.

The Supreme Court will determine what can or can't be done about Phelps' tactics. As for the anti-gay message itself, focusing on Phelps is just a distraction.

The real problem is that so many Americans tolerate hate when it's wrapped in an allegedly respectable package. As VS says, even the non-homophobic make excuses. "Nobody agrees with the person they vote for on every issue." Or.... "I'm just one Catholic. If I walk out of my church, it won't change the Pope's opinion."

Universal condemnation of Phelps is rooted in the fact that he pickets funerals. If condemnation of the message itself were that widespread, no anti-gay politician would ever get elected, and many churches would have no members.

The supreme court has and will continue to support Phelp's right of free speech. Unless somebody can put a new slant on the free speech law by saying free speech isn't entitled if it has no purpose other than to fuel hatred. The Kansas AG is trying to do something like that.

If nothing changes in the law, Phelps will have the right to step on the flag, bash gays, torment funerals and pretty much counter most anything good, just because he does have that right. Buffer zones and police protection will continue to be the only consolation.

So, I take it you didn't enjoy the video? I thought it was funny. No, it won't change anything, but it's nice to see the Phelps family deal with a pink bus load of flaming gays.

Oh, and by the way...we in the mid-west don't consider Phelps just a distraction. He's given the local kinky community trouble for a long time. You people in the rest of the country are just getting a taste of what we've put up with for years. I'm sorry to say this, but thank goodness they have moved on to national events. They used to picket restaurants that allowed local BDSM groups to have munches to the point the venues stopped allowing them for fear of losing customers. We are in the bible belt.

Read it again, DVS. I said that focusing on Phelps is a distraction from the root of the problem, which is the anti-gay message itself. That message is everywhere. Not just in the rhetoric of the WBC, and not just in the bible belt.

Here's some hate, expressed by a gubernatorial candidate in NY, springing from the allegedly defensible foundation of "his heart as a Catholic."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKL9TRaePww

You rightfully condemn the Phelps tactics, DVS. Do you condemn the remarks of Paladino as well?

 

[eastern sun]

You're absolutely right, but it is annoying that people need remedial classes- which is what 00syd seems to be complaining about.

Trying to get this thread back on track, whilst keeping to the education theme:
Can schooling help to dispel the bigotry that ends in such things as the holocaust?
I believe if you were to look at those countries where such things have occurred (genocide, etc) you'll notice a distinct lack of a middle class (feel free to offer counterexamples). Education can (at least in theory) lift more boats, by making workers more productive (and increasing capital through creativity*, etc.) Of course, that's very macro econ of me to say, and it's by no means the sole explanation.

Although, you do have things like this happening. Four teens at one Ohio HS killed themselves as a result of bullying....
Of course, that's happening in one school, and it's not part of the curriculum. But could tolerance be taught? Bigotry can quite easily be taught...

This discriminating faculty of the human brain is part of our language-learning skills. What the human animal has learned how to do is use that faculty to harness power by setting one group off against another. And periods of economic insecurity have historically fed biases by allowing the powers-that-be to harness the very real and powerful anger and energy of the masses and focus it on an "enemy" other than ourselves. It's during times of prosperity and boom that we get inclusive and open the doors a bit wider.

And schools in America (like elsewhere I believe) teach their students how to discriminate amongst people. Every high schooler in the country knows which group they belong to, which group holds the "state" power, and which group are the "rebels." Fundamental class issues (which, in my opinion, underlie most political action) are diffused by focussing on issues of race and gender and sexuality, and all the divisions and separate identities that we embrace ultimately serve the powers-that-be because they diffuse the collective energy.

 

[WriterDom]

You rightfully condemn the Phelps tactics, DVS. Do you condemn the remarks of Paladino as well?

I'm not DVS but I do like anal.

I consider his remarks to be politically ignorant and desperate.

But I won't condemn anyone for having anti-gay marriage views. Like the 90% of my neighbors. And yes, we voted on it. Or those who believe abortion is murder. No more than I would condemn the poor souls who believe the government is the answer to every problem.

And I don't have a problem with our sheriff running stings in the park and rounding up the half dozen or so cocksuckers who use it for a place to hook up. Now if they just want to chat and then run get a room well knock yourself out. Just not in a public park.

And no, we don't stone them for it but they do get their names in the paper. If they happen to be married, a stoning might be the more merciful option.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm not DVS but I do like anal.

I consider his remarks to be politically ignorant and desperate.

But I won't condemn anyone for having anti-gay marriage views. Like the 90% of my neighbors. And yes, we voted on it. Or those who believe abortion is murder. No more than I would condemn the poor souls who believe the government is the answer to every problem.

And I don't have a problem with our sheriff running stings in the park and rounding up the half dozen or so cocksuckers who use it for a place to hook up. Now if they just want to chat and then run get a room well knock yourself out. Just not in a public park.

And no, we don't stone them for it but they do get their names in the paper. If they happen to be married, a stoning might be the more merciful option.

Why do you support that kind of shaming? Just to clean up the public parks.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not DVS but I do like anal.

I consider his remarks to be politically ignorant and desperate.

But I won't condemn anyone for having anti-gay marriage views. Like the 90% of my neighbors. And yes, we voted on it. Or those who believe abortion is murder. No more than I would condemn the poor souls who believe the government is the answer to every problem.

And I don't have a problem with our sheriff running stings in the park and rounding up the half dozen or so cocksuckers who use it for a place to hook up. Now if they just want to chat and then run get a room well knock yourself out. Just not in a public park.

And no, we don't stone them for it but they do get their names in the paper. If they happen to be married, a stoning might be the more merciful option.

But if they're prom dates it's just cute, right?

 

[Netzach]

Why do you support that kind of shaming? Just to clean up the public parks.

Because it controls icky sex. You know unlike holly handjob the subbie slave hiking her skirt up at truckers and passing cars. (barf)

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not DVS but I do like anal.

I consider his remarks to be politically ignorant and desperate.

But I won't condemn anyone for having anti-gay marriage views. Like the 90% of my neighbors. And yes, we voted on it. Or those who believe abortion is murder. No more than I would condemn the poor souls who believe the government is the answer to every problem.

And I don't have a problem with our sheriff running stings in the park and rounding up the half dozen or so cocksuckers who use it for a place to hook up. Now if they just want to chat and then run get a room well knock yourself out. Just not in a public park.

And no, we don't stone them for it but they do get their names in the paper. If they happen to be married, a stoning might be the more merciful option.

Paladino's speech was a hell of a lot more than straightforward commentary on marriage laws. That was hate speech. Fearmongering, scapegoating, 'omg they're coming for your children but don't worry I'll protect you from them,' deeply offensive bullshit.

"We must stop pandering to the pornographers and the perverts, who seek to target our children and destroy their lives.I didn't march in the gay parade parade this year -- the gay pride parade this year. My opponent did. And that’s not the example that we should be showing our children, certainly not in our schools. And don’t misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way; that would be a dastardly lie. My approach is live and let live. I just think my children, and your children, will be much better off, and much more successful getting married and raising a family. And I don’t want them to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid or successful option. It isn’t."

If that's not bigotry, then I don't know what the hell is.

And in this case it's doubly rich, coming from a guy with a penchant for bestiality porn, fucking someone other than his wife, and the spawning of bastard children.

 

[WriterDom]

If girls are in the park charging for blow jobs from strangers they should be arrested for prostitution. If they are giving them away they should be arrested for stupidity.

To be arrested they have to solicit a blow job from the undercover cop. That's not quite a date situation in my opinion.

A girl and a guy on a date, the cop would probably bang on the window with his nightstick and tell them to take it elsewhere. Then go laugh about it with his buddies later.

A guy and guy I'm not sure. In that particular park they might have a problem because of the "brake light" code that means I either want to give or get a blow job. They might get off if they convince the cop that they came there together. And what kind of homophobe the cop was. I can ask the cop in the neighborhood. He's a "by the book" kind of guy and would probably treat both situations the same.

I was visibly assaulted there once when I parked to ride my bike. Some guy looked me up and down like I was a piece of meat. Pretty creepy feeling. That was before I knew it was the blow job park. I don't see how women deal with that shit everyday. I'd be kicking guys in the balls.

 

[WriterDom]

Why do you support that kind of shaming? Just to clean up the public parks.

It's public record once arrests are made. The newspaper has every right to run with the story. What sells better than a sex scandal? Plus it deters such activity from that particular park. It doesn't matter what I support. If you want to write the editor I'll give you the email in PM and the article if it is still floating around.

 

[teknight]

It's public record once arrests are made. The newspaper has every right to run with the story. What sells better than a sex scandal? Plus it deters such activity from that particular park. It doesn't matter what I support. If you want to write the editor I'll give you the email in PM and the article if it is still floating around.

Not trying to be a pain in the ass, I'm genuinely curious: does it deter the activity? Is that particular park being used less (or has it been abandoned?)

 

[WriterDom]

Not trying to be a pain in the ass, I'm genuinely curious: does it deter the activity? Is that particular park being used less (or has it been abandoned?)

When I lived closer to Atlanta they had the same problem at a rest stop on the interstate and simply closed it down and it has remained closed since the 90s.

This one is still open and used a good bit. On the lake with boat ramps and picnic areas. The police haven't been back so maybe there is another designated park for such things. There are so many Army Corp of Engineer parks on the lake it would be hard to know unless people complained.

 

[DVS]

Read it again, DVS. I said that focusing on Phelps is a distraction from the root of the problem, which is the anti-gay message itself. That message is everywhere. Not just in the rhetoric of the WBC, and not just in the bible belt.

Here's some hate, expressed by a gubernatorial candidate in NY, springing from the allegedly defensible foundation of "his heart as a Catholic."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKL9TRaePww

You rightfully condemn the Phelps tactics, DVS. Do you condemn the remarks of Paladino as well?

I don't need to read it again. I said exactly what I meant to say. The whole Phelps family is an "in your face" attention seeking group and when they're in your face, I don't think you'll consider it just a distraction.

Would I also condemn Paladino? Are you trying to twist what I say into something you can exploit? I know first hand about Phelps. Paladino isn't in my face. He's not even in my state while Phelps is. Just because I haven't said I'd condemn Paladino, that doesn't mean I don't see him as just another homophobe. Unfortunately, the world is full of them. We will never be rid of them, no matter how much we try. If you live in New York, at least you can vote against him. There's very little I can do about him, here in the mid-west.

Say, if you know more about him, why don't you complain about Paladino and I'll complain about Phelps. Sound like a deal?