Hardest Fantasy Themes to Write

[StillStunned]

That sounds like the computer on the Heart of Gold, trying to make Arthur Dent some tea.

Actually, current GenAI seems to be scarily like the Talkie Toaster from Red Dwarf:

 

[RetroFan]

Obv more SciFi than Fantasy, but when the ‘good’ citizens of AH set me the challenge of writing a tentacle porn story, I decided my tentacle monster would be an alien. I then spent quite some time trying to come up with a quasi-scientific rationale for his telepathic, telekinetic, shape-shifting powers. I think it kinda hung together in the end.

I had to create aliens for my sci-fi Halloween story 'Cindy's Close Encounter' a few years back. I thought I did quite a job envisaging them and bringing them to life, where they live, how their life cycle (egg - larvae - pupae - adult) works, and their personalities - they are mostly obsessed with catching humans to feed to their larvae, and have no concept of fun and enjoyment, fiction completely baffling them. However, weeks after the story had been published I realized what my creations inadvertently looked like - the Yip Yip aliens from Sesame Street.

 

[Djmac1031]

I had to create aliens for my sci-fi Halloween story 'Cindy's Close Encounter' a few years back. I thought I did quite a job envisaging them and bringing them to life, where they live, how their life cycle (egg - larvae - pupae - adult) works, and their personalities - they are mostly obsessed with catching humans to feed to their larvae, and have no concept of fun and enjoyment, fiction completely baffling them. However, weeks after the story had been published I realized what my creations inadvertently looked like - the Yip Yip aliens from Sesame Street.

At least you made your aliens look like SOMETHING.

My aliens in The White Room were just discorporated invisible energy beings.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I think AI is going to be the next big Sci-Fi Mt Fuji. Either AI will be ubiquitous in a Sci-Fi future or you will have to have explain it's absence.

It depends. Sci-fi trends always change depending on the era. Space travel, aliens, time travel, AI, robots, cybernetics, biological enhancements, zombies, nuclear energy or some form of unstable energy, man-made diseases, teleportation, post-apocalypse... But Mt. Fuji to me are the way authors explored these themes, and the ones that could be considered as such would be Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov. The thing about sci-fi is that, unlike fantasy, the majority of authors aren't stunlocked into doing the same thing as these two, yet they sometimes find themselves going over the Mt. Fuji of their specific subgenre within sci-fi. Orwell was the Mt. Fuji of dystopian fiction for a long time before Veronica Roth released Divergent, and then everybody wanted to do the exact same thing. William Gibson could be considered the Mt. Fuji of cyberpunk had it not been because people are hyperfocusing in the cool gadgets and evil corporations instead of the noir roots the genre comes from, and I mostly blame the Cyberpunk RPG for that. As for things with spaceships, expect people trying to do Star Trek or Star Wars.

re: AI though, the original Ghost in the Shell movie did pretty alright discussing AI as a living organism. The franchise as a whole does a good job discussing the relationship of humanity with technology though, and it doesn't limit itself to AI, but even metaphysical concepts like the human soul. Mass Effect did explain the "absence" of AI in its world: AIs are illegal. I put the word on quotes because AI is what the entire story is about, and it even breaches into cosmic horror territory... which is something that acknowledges the Lovecraftian influence, but manages to avert it anyway without sacrificing the cosmic horror elements.

I haven't finished reading Larry Niven's Ringworld, but to the point in which I reached I don't recall AI being even mentioned, let alone discussed. I could be wrong though. It's been a while. I also don't remember AI in Cryptonomicon, but then again, if Diamond Age taught me anything is that Neal Stephenson LOVES to write about AI. In one of the sci-fi stories that I abandoned I also never planned to have AI on it, and my first Cyberpunk work I never used AI... I read that draft a while back this year, and it still doesn't need AI.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It depends. Sci-fi trends always change depending on the era. Space travel, aliens, time travel, AI, robots, cybernetics, biological enhancements, zombies, nuclear energy or some form of unstable energy, man-made diseases, teleportation, post-apocalypse... But Mt. Fuji to me are the way authors explored these themes, and the ones that could be considered as such would be Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov. The thing about sci-fi is that, unlike fantasy, the majority of authors aren't stunlocked into doing the same thing as these two, yet they sometimes find themselves going over the Mt. Fuji of their specific subgenre within sci-fi. Orwell was the Mt. Fuji of dystopian fiction for a long time before Veronica Roth released Divergent, and then everybody wanted to do the exact same thing. William Gibson could be considered the Mt. Fuji of cyberpunk had it not been because people are hyperfocusing in the cool gadgets and evil corporations instead of the noir roots the genre comes from, and I mostly blame the Cyberpunk RPG for that. As for things with spaceships, expect people trying to do Star Trek or Star Wars.

re: AI though, the original Ghost in the Shell movie did pretty alright discussing AI as a living organism. The franchise as a whole does a good job discussing the relationship of humanity with technology though, and it doesn't limit itself to AI, but even metaphysical concepts like the human soul. Mass Effect did explain the "absence" of AI in its world: AIs are illegal. I put the word on quotes because AI is what the entire story is about, and it even breaches into cosmic horror territory... which is something that acknowledges the Lovecraftian influence, but manages to avert it anyway without sacrificing the cosmic horror elements.

I haven't finished reading Larry Niven's Ringworld, but to the point in which I reached I don't recall AI being even mentioned, let alone discussed. I could be wrong though. It's been a while. I also don't remember AI in Cryptonomicon, but then again, if Diamond Age taught me anything is that Neal Stephenson LOVES to write about AI. In one of the sci-fi stories that I abandoned I also never planned to have AI on it, and my first Cyberpunk work I never used AI... I read that draft a while back this year, and it still doesn't need AI.

I think perhaps we are using the Mt Fuji metaphor differently. To me the heart of it is that in Japanese Art either Mt Fuji is present in the work, or conspicuous by it's absence.
In the context of AI in Sci-Fi for the next decade or so I think either it will very much involve AI or the absence will be very conspicuous and have to be explained in some way or other. Other wise it becomes, "why didn't they have AI..."
I have a Sci-Fi work in progress, and I have a brief bit of dialogue explaining why AI wouldn't work for the mission our characters are embarked on. I utilized a variation in Asimov's 3 laws, an AI system can't protect itself, because doing so would risk sentient life.
Niven didn't even really mention computers much in Ringworld. If they had an AI system they wouldn't have needed the Protectors sticking around.

But I wholeheartedly agree about it changing, AI is just the current flavor of the day. 20 years from now (possibly less) it will be something else.

 

[TheRedChamber]

That Pratchett quote in full...

‘Tolkien appears in the fantasy universe in the same way that Mount Fuji appeared in old Japanese prints. Sometimes small, in the distance, and sometimes big and close-to, and sometimes not there at all, and that’s because the artist is standing on Mount Fuji.’

 

[MrHereWriting]

I think AI is going to be the next big Sci-Fi Mt Fuji. Either AI will be ubiquitous in a Sci-Fi future or you will have to have explain it's absence.

Never explain the absence of something that's not in your world unless that's part of the story, such as some great catastrophe wiping out technology or the Father of AI was murdered before he was able to complete his work, but if AI was never invented, then there's no reason to explain why it was never invented.

 

[Duleigh]

Hardest though I would say is a time-loop story

I LOVE writing sci-fi and fantasy, but I never wrote a time-loop story because I personally find them annoying. How hard could it be? You only do the hard work once - set up the situation, introduce the characters and let it go - repeating the same thing over and over with slight changes with each iteration until you come to the finish. The anime RE:Zero does that and I eventually quit watching. It just bored me to tears. I've never seen Groundhog Day all the way through for the same reason, it annoys and bores me.

Fantasy and sci-fi world building - setting stories in other worlds or on other planets - is very hard

I LOVE doing this part. I wrote a fanfic and loved the story I used but I couldn't sell it. So, I stripped the other authors universe out of my story and built my own universe and came up with Gods Save the Queen Book 1. I LOVED building that universe! The novel has 5 appendixes and a map of the continent. I can't wait to get back to Book 2 but I've got several other things to write ATM

One subject I've never tackled is time travel

You know you've put that bug in my ear now... The plot bunnies are starting to fill the room

Look for a story called "My Hot Grandma"

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Never explain the absence of something that's not in your world unless that's part of the story, such as some great catastrophe wiping out technology or the Father of AI was murdered before he was able to complete his work, but if AI was never invented, then there's no reason to explain why it was never invented.

We'll have to disagree on that point. If you are writing sci-fi that is extrapolating from the present, as almost all of it is, then having existing technology missing requires an explanation.
The complete absence of computers in Dune wouldn't have made any sense if Herbert hadn't included the Butlerian Jihad to explain it.

 

[MrHereWriting]

We'll have to disagree on that point. If you are writing sci-fi that is extrapolating from the present, as almost all of it is, then having existing technology missing requires an explanation.
The complete absence of computers in Dune wouldn't have made any sense if Herbert hadn't included the Butlerian Jihad to explain it.

And what did I say?

Never explain the absence of something that's not in your world unless that's part of the story, such as some great catastrophe wiping out technology or the Father of AI was murdered before he was able to complete his work, but if AI was never invented, then there's no reason to explain why it was never invented.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Minnican Fairies (the smallest of all fairies) getting fucked by Giants. It's not a pretty sight.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I do not like time-loops.

I had an idea years ago about a guy who when sleep, basically woke up to an alternate reality where he met a woman. And somehow he meets her in real life.

I don't think magic and scifi is all that hard to write. The most successful magic stories have limitations of some kind. I don't think it takes tons of world building either. I have two scifi stories on here that only show what's needed to show for the people living in the moment and taking you with them. Some shows and movies don't really do that, it just puts you in it and might explain some things, but won't hold your hand. I'd say Cowboy Bebop is a good example

 

[Statius]

What was that Sandra Bullock movie with Keanu Reeves? About some cottage? Kinda a time loop story, right? Don't remember much about it

 

[SimonDoom]

What was that Sandra Bullock movie with Keanu Reeves? About some cottage? Kinda a time loop story, right? Don't remember much about it

The Lake House. Not a time loop but time displacement. They corresponded through a mailbox while living two years apart.

 

[DeMont]

Speaking for myself, anything with political intrigue. I prefer my worldbuilding to be limited to the story's immediate surroundings, and the action to be straightforward. Politics call for slow development, tonnes of background, enough players to muddy the waters, and just generally more plot than I'm capable of putting in my stories.

@StillStunned,
In reading your "Into the night" Cyberpunk tale I have to admit I found it a fascinating foray into a world I am just starting to work in. I know your inspiration was the "Born to Run" challenge that year but where/how did you come up with/develop the "slang" language that you used?

While your "human" reactions and interactions were quite plausible and immersive how would you approach a more "hardcore" and "sexual" version of the same material?
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[StillStunned]

@StillStunned,
In reading your "Into the night" Cyberpunk tale I have to admit I found it a fascinating foray into a world I am just starting to work in. I know your inspiration was the "Born to Run" challenge that year but where/how did you come up with/develop the "slang" language that you used?

Thanks for the kind words!

Writing "Into The Night" is a bit of a blur. It was incredibly immersive to write, just typing the images as they came into my head without pause. Pretty exhausting, but in the end I think it carries over into the reading. But for a lot of the story there probably weren't that many conscious choices. Mostly just was sounded right.

I'd recently been rereading some cyberpunk stuff, so that was clearly an influence, but I was also trying to picture the cool of 1970s New York - at least as it's portrayed in movies and songs. The slang developed from there: lazy words, or simple words for broader concepts ("the know" to cover news, gossip, rumours and secrets for instance), and some specific terms for the cyberpunk aspect: jack probably being the most prominent, again a simple and lazy word that cool people would use. "So-Ko" is South Korea, as indicated by the reference to New Gangnam.

Some other stuff came out of Springsteen's lyrics. The "ghosts" that people wear in their eyes are a direct reference to "Thunder Road": "There ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away..." The club called "Free's Out" is named for the song "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out". The Poets and the Maximum Lawmen come from "Jungleland". And so on. I think I counted about 30 unique references to early Springsteen songs.

Without going back and rereading the entire story, that's all I can pinpoint. Mostly it was picturing a cyberpunk version of 1970s hustlers and gangs, and memories of hanging out in my own little backwater as a teen and trying to sound cool.

While your "human" reactions and interactions were quite plausible and immersive how would you approach a more "hardcore" and "sexual" version of the same material?
Deepest respects,
D.

Ooph. Good question. It would be a very self-absorbed and descriptive, and probably pretty shallow given the pace of the narrative. I'd probably blend direct dialogue with narrated dialogue (if you get what I mean by that), and mix sensations with reactions and thoughts. Off the top of my head it might include something like this:

"Kiss me."

There's desire in those two words, an urgency that you feel too, gotta kiss her, lips against lips, warm body pressin' against yours, soft skin glowin' pale under the fluorescent light, metal gleamin' in her neck and down her shoulder, got herself a graft there wonder what it does never mind just now, ask her later, don't matter as much as that soft pale skin burnin' beneath your fingertips, breath hot and shallow against yours, she's tremblin', might be desire might be nerves, so you break the kiss and look into her eyes.

"Be gentle," she says.

Of course, don't worry babe I'd never hurt you, 'cept you know you will sooner or later, not now, now you'll be the gentlest fuckin' lover in the fuckin' City, strokin' her teasin' her kissin' her lips, her neck, those small perfect tits with the proud nipples, gentle right until she don't want it gentle and then you'll be strong, but she ain't there yet...

(Or something like that.)

 

[nice90sguy]

In my humble opinion, writing a very funny or very scary story is the most difficult.

For me, funny is easy. Funny and sexy, almost impossible.

 

[iwatchus]

For me, funny is easy. Funny and sexy, almost impossible.

Ask me in a few weeks when I finish my Winter contest story, which is aiming for this. And romantic.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

For me, funny is easy. Funny and sexy, almost impossible.

I think it's all about knowing the right dosage.

Most modern movies have the same problem. It's one pun after another, often forced and not funny. And it turns the movie into a parody even if it wasn't meant to be one. Screenwriters should choose a couple of moments in the movie to deliver a good pun, and that's it. Keep the rest of the movie serious. That way, those few puns will be memorable and won't break the tone of the movie.

I think the same goes for an erotic story. Choose a few moments to make a good joke, but keep the rest of the story more serious. The same sentence can't make you laugh and deeply arouse you at the same time. Those two feelings are in conflict when evoked at the same time.

 

[DeMont]

Thanks for the kind words!

Writing "Into The Night" is a bit of a blur. It was incredibly immersive to write, just typing the images as they came into my head without pause. Pretty exhausting, but in the end I think it carries over into the reading. But for a lot of the story there probably weren't that many conscious choices. Mostly just was sounded right.

I'd recently been rereading some cyberpunk stuff, so that was clearly an influence, but I was also trying to picture the cool of 1970s New York - at least as it's portrayed in movies and songs. The slang developed from there: lazy words, or simple words for broader concepts ("the know" to cover news, gossip, rumours and secrets for instance), and some specific terms for the cyberpunk aspect: jack probably being the most prominent, again a simple and lazy word that cool people would use. "So-Ko" is South Korea, as indicated by the reference to New Gangnam.

Some other stuff came out of Springsteen's lyrics. The "ghosts" that people wear in their eyes are a direct reference to "Thunder Road": "There ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away..." The club called "Free's Out" is named for the song "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out". The Poets and the Maximum Lawmen come from "Jungleland". And so on. I think I counted about 30 unique references to early Springsteen songs.

Without going back and rereading the entire story, that's all I can pinpoint. Mostly it was picturing a cyberpunk version of 1970s hustlers and gangs, and memories of hanging out in my own little backwater as a teen and trying to sound cool.

Ooph. Good question. It would be a very self-absorbed and descriptive, and probably pretty shallow given the pace of the narrative. I'd probably blend direct dialogue with narrated dialogue (if you get what I mean by that), and mix sensations with reactions and thoughts. Off the top of my head it might include something like this:

"Kiss me."

There's desire in those two words, an urgency that you feel too, gotta kiss her, lips against lips, warm body pressin' against yours, soft skin glowin' pale under the fluorescent light, metal gleamin' in her neck and down her shoulder, got herself a graft there wonder what it does never mind just now, ask her later, don't matter as much as that soft pale skin burnin' beneath your fingertips, breath hot and shallow against yours, she's tremblin', might be desire might be nerves, so you break the kiss and look into her eyes.

"Be gentle," she says.

Of course, don't worry babe I'd never hurt you, 'cept you know you will sooner or later, not now, now you'll be the gentlest fuckin' lover in the fuckin' City, strokin' her teasin' her kissin' her lips, her neck, those small perfect tits with the proud nipples, gentle right until she don't want it gentle and then you'll be strong, but she ain't there yet...

(Or something like that.)

@StillStunned,
Good morning, just, my dear colleague. I have just completed a "Cyberpunk Slang Dictionary" based on modern literature and the video game "Cyberpunk 2077", I think it's about time I gave the genre a go. Another "self-challenge" let's say. Thank you for the inspiration.

I'm going to give it a darker, grittier, more Blade Runner/Matrix style treatment with sex. The tricky bit will be the "new slang" understanding for the readers who don't have my "glossary" - I wonder what'll happen?
Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained right?
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm going to give it a darker, grittier, more Blade Runner/Matrix style treatment with sex. The tricky bit will be the "new slang" understanding for the readers who don't have my "glossary" - I wonder what'll happen?

I got a few comments on "Into The Night" saying that the slang was sometimes unclear but that didn't detract from the overall enjoyment. I say go for it.

I think the purpose of slang is to add depth to your world and make it feel lived-in. It's a bit like the sets of the LotR movies, compared with earlier fantasy: Peter Jackson built the villages a year before filming and let them settle into the natural surroundings, while other productions would just clear a land and build huts on the raw ground.

Slang hints at a society that goes beyond what the reader is shown. Let the reader figure out the meanings by themselves. It will add to their engagement and make them feel part of the world. In the real world nobody gets a glossary of "how people actually talk". Most of us learn the meaning of slang words through observation, and once we figure it out we're part of the "in" crowd who use those phrases.

Unless of course it's something vital to the reader's understanding of the story. But for people's interactions and general descriptions of the world, I'd drop a bit in here and there and trust the reader.

 

[Husky_Embrace]

<...>

One subject I've never tackled is time travel, despite it interesting me. I have had time slips in several of my stories, but one involved aliens that had the ability to reset small passages of time and in the other what happened was ambiguous. I wouldn't say no to writing a time travel story, but haven't had a good enough idea yet to make it work.

<...>

Hardest though I would say is a time-loop story, like Groundhog Day, Palm Springs and Happy Death Day among others. Writing such a story would be a huge challenge, especially with erotic themes. While I like time loops stories, I don't think I could ever write one myself.

What are your thoughts/experiences?

As for time "travel," why not approach it from a different angle? Time travel is moving through an extra space. Can we imagine someone both moving and perceiving through these 4 dimensions?

Say a woman is depressed and we don't know why. It is revealed she has dabbled with time travel to fix something, and found to be unsuccessful.

We then follow her to a building still being built. In one of the apartments she looks into the future, seeing what we will only gradually see unfold all at once. We see the apartment finished, and her coming in with her boyfriend to make love in celebration. They just got the keys and the furniture has moved in.

We see them having a great time. Celebrations as finishing university, or maybe getting a job. Getting married. Everything seems great.

Then things turn darker. Maybe best to put that in a new home. After reminiscing about the good times she moves to a house. It starts nice at first, but then another woman enters a picture. A bit of flirting, then suddenly more. This devolves into an argument, and then an empty house.

Maybe it can end on a happy note. You could introduce another character in the mix. A man (or woman, if you want to tick more boxes) that is in her interest.

She can't change that he cheats on her. It is the reason she became a time traveller in the first place. If she prevents it, she doesn't time travel, making her unable to prevent him from cheating.

Then she realises she can travel back and be with that guy that got away. She finds out why he never got together with her. It is because he did get together with her. Only with her future self. Her past self makes the mistake of going with a cheating bastard, allowing her to figure out time travel and be with the other guy. She looks into their future, seeing a happy end for them.

 

[Duleigh]

For me the hardest thing is writing in a series of flashbacks and trying to drag the reader along with me. In a recent story, the whole thing is told in flashbacks from a warm happy end piece. I did everything except title each flashback with "WARNING: THIS IS A FLASHBACK. IT IS NOW FIVE YEARS INTO THE CHARACTERS PAST. HE DID NOT GET DEMOTED FROM COLLEGE TO HIGH SCHOOL"

They still miss it. I leave time hopping, travel, looping alone because of these readers who all seem to be anonymous. (in breeding? Wasn't their turn with the family pair of glasses that day?)

 

[Djmac1031]

As for time "travel," why not approach it from a different angle? Time travel is moving through an extra space. Can we imagine someone both moving and perceiving through these 4 dimensions?

Say a woman is depressed and we don't know why. It is revealed she has dabbled with time travel to fix something, and found to be unsuccessful.

We then follow her to a building still being built. In one of the apartments she looks into the future, seeing what we will only gradually see unfold all at once. We see the apartment finished, and her coming in with her boyfriend to make love in celebration. They just got the keys and the furniture has moved in.

We see them having a great time. Celebrations as finishing university, or maybe getting a job. Getting married. Everything seems great.

Then things turn darker. Maybe best to put that in a new home. After reminiscing about the good times she moves to a house. It starts nice at first, but then another woman enters a picture. A bit of flirting, then suddenly more. This devolves into an argument, and then an empty house.

Maybe it can end on a happy note. You could introduce another character in the mix. A man (or woman, if you want to tick more boxes) that is in her interest.

She can't change that he cheats on her. It is the reason she became a time traveller in the first place. If she prevents it, she doesn't time travel, making her unable to prevent him from cheating.

Then she realises she can travel back and be with that guy that got away. She finds out why he never got together with her. It is because he did get together with her. Only with her future self. Her past self makes the mistake of going with a cheating bastard, allowing her to figure out time travel and be with the other guy. She looks into their future, seeing a happy end for them.

Sounds like you got a story all worked out. You should write this.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I'm wrestling with that too, @Duleigh. Working on a thing that's going to hit moments from when the MC is 6, 10-12, 18, 19, 21 and 22. I really want to arrange them out of chronological order. The story feels stronger that way. But I feel like I'm just asking to be yelled at by people who won't notice that the year is written at the top of the section.