Government shutdown over illegals?

[bellisarius]

Yep, there are the alleged 800,000 applicants, but there are 3.5 million who were allegedly brought here when they were under 18 who would be included in any Democrat deal. When you add to that number to the extended families the Democrats will start whining about bringing into the country you're talking several millions of new potential democrat voters with which to dispossess the American majority.

We should do a one time deal for those who have registered and not turn this into a general amnesty for every illegal in the country. The path to citizenship should be long and punitive as opposed to those entering legally and without voting rights for the duration of that path.

I don't agree with the "punitive" aspect. There should be rigid but reasonable standards to be met. And the applicant shouldn't have to line the pockets of some immigration attorney of upwards of $50K to get there. Nothing that hard work and the desire to be a citizen should be involved.

We want immigration. What we don't want is a flood of the uneducated, unskilled, and unhealthy flooding the nation adding to the welfare burden we are already weighed down with not to mention the cost of the criminal elements. We have enough of our own home grown criminals.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Aren't indigenous
peoples the only
real americans?

Not if you realize that there were aborigines here whom they displaced (and whom subsequently went extinct in the Americas).

 

[WoundedKnee]

I don't agree with the "punitive" aspect. There should be rigid but reasonable standards to be met. And the applicant shouldn't have to line the pockets of some immigration attorney of upwards of $50K to get there. Nothing that hard work and the desire to be a citizen should be involved.

We want immigration. What we don't want is a flood of the uneducated, unskilled, and unhealthy flooding the nation adding to the welfare burden we are already weighed down with not to mention the cost of the criminal elements. We have enough of our own home grown criminals.

I agree with you on the punitive aspect, but when I hear legal immigrants talking about the hoops they had to jump through to get here, I do kind of want them to have a waiting period as if they had actually waited their turn in line like everyone else.

 

[Rightguide]

I don't agree with the "punitive" aspect. There should be rigid but reasonable standards to be met. And the applicant shouldn't have to line the pockets of some immigration attorney of upwards of $50K to get there. Nothing that hard work and the desire to be a citizen should be involved.

We want immigration. What we don't want is a flood of the uneducated, unskilled, and unhealthy flooding the nation adding to the welfare burden we are already weighed down with not to mention the cost of the criminal elements. We have enough of our own home grown criminals.

I don't want illegals getting citizenship easier than those who took the legal route because such a policy will only bring more illegals. I don't want to instantly create millions upon millions of new Democrat voters either. I want the law to mean something. I want it to be respected and enforced without a regularly scheduled reward for the lawless every 5 to ten years.

 

[Amoebah]

Not if you realize that there were aborigines here whom they displaced (and whom subsequently went extinct in the Americas).

amoebah
only real
American!

 

[coati]

Not if you realize that there were aborigines here whom they displaced (and whom subsequently went extinct in the Americas).

Can you give us the Denny's Grand Slam Breakfast version of the history of human populations in the New World? I am especially interested in your concept of the origins of the "native" Hispanics (as opposed to Mexicans) and to Belliarius's claim that Zunis are pretentious in their claim to be native.

 

[WoundedKnee]

amoebah
only real
American!

Not according to fossil records.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Can you give us the Denny's Grand Slam Breakfast version of the history of human populations in the New World? I am especially interested in your concept of the origins of the "native" Hispanics (as opposed to Mexicans) and to Belliarius's claim that Zunis are pretentious in their claim to be native.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCg2BoKiuOM


I'm not your windmill and I'm not going to humor someone who lacks the skill set to hold a conversation.

 

[bellisarius]

I agree with you on the punitive aspect, but when I hear legal immigrants talking about the hoops they had to jump through to get here, I do kind of want them to have a waiting period as if they had actually waited their turn in line like everyone else.

I didn't say "easy", I said "reasonable." Some of those hoops are perfectly legitimate, others really have nothing to do with citizenship. Winnow the chaff and make the lawyers superfluous.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Indeed, although I wonder if some people would understand the reference to "winnow the chaff."

 

[bellisarius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCg2BoKiuOM


I'm not your windmill and I'm not going to humor someone who lacks the skill set to hold a conversation.

Let him/her/it display their ignorance. It appears to be part of that generation whose head's been filled with so much shit that it's a wonder there's a functioning brain cell left.

 

[coati]

I like conversations that are built on facts. You tend to get upset when I insist on that premise.

So, how are Native Americans related to the "deep resentment" of "native" Hispanics against Mexicans, and tell me about the people who the Zunis displaced.

 

[coati]

Let him/her/it display their ignorance. It appears to be part of that generation whose head's been filled with so much shit that it's a wonder there's a functioning brain cell left.

What is the funny part of Zunis claiming to be native rather than submitting to your demeaning label of "Indians", and why am I ignorant for asking?

 

[WoundedKnee]

Let him/her/it display their ignorance. It appears to be part of that generation whose head's been filled with so much shit that it's a wonder there's a functioning brain cell left.

I like conversations that are built on facts. You tend to get upset when I insist on that premise.

So, how are Native Americans related to the "deep resentment" of "native" Hispanics against Mexicans, and tell me about the people who the Zunis displaced.

He has a point there. All you ever do is comment on the comments of others, looking for attack angles, but like so many Progressives this seems to be the extent of your conversational training: do not address the topic, do not discuss your opinions, focus on the opinions of others and try to find a way to force them to defend themselves and by this tactic you win every argument just as soon as they begin to defend themselves because that implies that they are wrong. Meanwhile, you stand on the rhetorical high ground because you offer no opinion or thought on the actual topic.

The weekends at the college didn't turn out like you planned,
The things that pass for knowledge I Kant understand.

 

[bellisarius]

He has a point there. All you ever do is comment on the comments of others, looking for attack angles, but like so many Progressives this seems to be the extent of your conversational training: do not address the topic, do not discuss your opinions, focus on the opinions of others and try to find a way to force them to defend themselves and by this tactic you win every argument just as soon as they begin to defend themselves because that implies that they are wrong. Meanwhile, you stand on the rhetorical high ground because you offer no opinion or thought on the actual topic.

The weekends at the college didn't turn out like you planned,
The things that pass for knowledge I Kant understand.

The history of the Navajo, Apache, and Zuni are readily available to anyone that wants to do the research. The Apache and Navajo are third wave invaders. The Zuni are part of the second wave. The original peoples of the Americas were either wiped out and/or assimilated by these invaders. No current Indian tribe in the Americas have any relation to the original humans that populated the Americas. Consequently NONE have any particular claim to the title "native Americans."

 

[Rightguide]

What is the funny part of Zunis claiming to be native rather than submitting to your demeaning label of "Indians", and why am I ignorant for asking?

Real Indians aren't affected by your ignorant bout with political correctness:


I am an Indian, American Indian. I prefer 'American Indian' (because) anyone born in the western hemisphere is a native American.

- Russell Means, Republic of Lakotah
(Activist, actor 1939-2012)



The life of an Indian is like the wings of the air.

That is why you notice the hawk knows how to get his prey. The Indian is like that.

The hawk swoops down on its prey, so does the Indian.

In his lament he is like an animal. For instance, the coyote is sly, so is the Indian.

The eagle is the same.

That is why the Indian is always feathered up, he is a relative to the wings of the air.

- Black Elk, Oglala Lakota Sioux (1863-1950)



Is it wrong for me to love my own?

Is it wicked for me because my skin is red?

Because I am Sioux?

Because I was born where my father lived?

Because I would die for my people and my country?

God made me an Indian.

SITTING BULL
- Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Lakota (circa 1831-1890)

 

[coati]

He has a point there. All you ever do is comment on the comments of others, looking for attack angles, but like so many Progressives this seems to be the extent of your conversational training: do not address the topic, do not discuss your opinions, focus on the opinions of others and try to find a way to force them to defend themselves and by this tactic you win every argument just as soon as they begin to defend themselves because that implies that they are wrong. Meanwhile, you stand on the rhetorical high ground because you offer no opinion or thought on the actual topic.

The weekends at the college didn't turn out like you planned,
The things that pass for knowledge I Kant understand.

Hey look, if you and Bellisarius want to sling the bull about why "native" Hispanics, Blacks, and "Indians" are swinging toward Trump, and you do not wish to be disturbed, do it in a private message format.

But I am not going to sit here quietly while that is going on in an open forum.

So, tell me about this inside joke about why those uppity "Indians" are not native.

 

[WoundedKnee]

You two are playing his game and it makes me wonder who his and SgtSpidey's root account is. Force him/her to state some sort of case that these tribes are the only people with a claim to being native.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Hey look, if you and Bellisarius want to sling the bull about why "native" Hispanics, Blacks, and "Indians" are swinging toward Trump, and you do not wish to be disturbed, do it in a private message format.

But I am not going to sit here quietly while that is going on in an open forum.

So, tell me about this inside joke about why those uppity "Indians" are not native.

You tell me. Why are these uppity Indians, and why you regard them as that, I have no idea, you chose to frame them in that light, are the only true natives?

 

[bellisarius]

You two are playing his game and it makes me wonder who his and SgtSpidey's root account is. Force him/her to state some sort of case that these tribes are the only people with a claim to being native.

It's obviously too God damned stupid to make a statement about almost anything.

 

[Rightguide]

It's obviously too God damned stupid to make a statement about almost anything.

Especially its suggestion that Indians have a problem with calling themselves Indians.

 

[WoundedKnee]

It's obviously too God damned stupid to make a statement about almost anything.

In my pocket history of Mexico, it tells of the collapse of the two empires in Mexico city by invasions from the north by people driven south due to drought.

 

[phrodeau]

Real Indians aren't affected by your ignorant bout with political correctness:


I am an Indian, American Indian. I prefer 'American Indian' (because) anyone born in the western hemisphere is a native American.

- Russell Means, Republic of Lakotah
(Activist, actor 1939-2012)



The life of an Indian is like the wings of the air.

That is why you notice the hawk knows how to get his prey. The Indian is like that.

The hawk swoops down on its prey, so does the Indian.

In his lament he is like an animal. For instance, the coyote is sly, so is the Indian.

The eagle is the same.

That is why the Indian is always feathered up, he is a relative to the wings of the air.

- Black Elk, Oglala Lakota Sioux (1863-1950)



Is it wrong for me to love my own?

Is it wicked for me because my skin is red?

Because I am Sioux?

Because I was born where my father lived?

Because I would die for my people and my country?

God made me an Indian.

SITTING BULL
- Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Lakota (circa 1831-1890)

Do you realize the people you're quoting were forced to learn English?

 

[WoundedKnee]

You know, for sure, that those are not translations Dr. Nye?

 

[coati]

Real Indians aren't affected by your ignorant bout with political correctness:


I am an Indian, American Indian. I prefer 'American Indian' (because) anyone born in the western hemisphere is a native American.

- Russell Means, Republic of Lakotah
(Activist, actor 1939-2012)



The life of an Indian is like the wings of the air.

That is why you notice the hawk knows how to get his prey. The Indian is like that.

The hawk swoops down on its prey, so does the Indian.

In his lament he is like an animal. For instance, the coyote is sly, so is the Indian.

The eagle is the same.

That is why the Indian is always feathered up, he is a relative to the wings of the air.

- Black Elk, Oglala Lakota Sioux (1863-1950)



Is it wrong for me to love my own?

Is it wicked for me because my skin is red?

Because I am Sioux?

Because I was born where my father lived?

Because I would die for my people and my country?

God made me an Indian.

SITTING BULL
- Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Lakota (circa 1831-1890)

Well, Russell had the option to call himself what the Europeans initially labelled the people they found in the New World when they mistakenly thought they had landed in the East Indies.

My neighbors call themselves by their nations of origin, such as Tohono Odom, Apache, Navajo, Hopi. And, note to the guy who goes by the moniker "Wounded Knee", these tribes in the Southwest consider themselves to be a lot more native than those of us with European descent, and are not swayed by the argument that the displacement of their tribes are justified by social Darwinism.