Government shutdown over illegals?

[phrodeau]

Ending chain migration is the key if that is done this will be the last amnesty (pathway to citizenship) for illegals. That pathway might not be a free pass either. Chain migration is how the vast majority of immigrants get here. It's a corrupt system that puts the immigrant in charge and turns the government into a rubber stamp. But until there is a deal Daca types are subject to deportation.

Nobody gets a green card or visa without being vetted, chain migrant or no.

 

[coachdb18]

Only after California and their illegal alien votes came in.

Maybe the fact that packing all 12 million illegal aliens into California would STILL only give California the same 55 electoral votes they had BEFORE they absorbed the expense of them. And with the new tax laws taking effect, more and more TAXPAYERS are going to the RED states, taking their electoral votes with them. The Democrat party is bleeding to death, slowly but surely.

 

[Rightguide]

And, as I posted, all Dems have to do is say no to ending chain migration (as they're doing), thus calling Trump's & the RINO's bluff of them holding Dreamers as any significant bargaining chip - when Trump & the RINOs want Dreamer citizenship as much as Dems do.

The entire point of Trump being hard on illegals up to now is to get as much as he can (walls, chain migration) from Dems before the Dreamer issue inevitably has to be settled, because when it finally comes down to that, which is inevitably happening now, Trump & RINOs & Dems share the very same position: they all want to pass and enact special legislation making all Dreamers American citizens.

Let's wait and see if McConnell trips the nuclear option.

 

[Rightguide]

Maybe the fact that packing all 12 million illegal aliens into California would STILL only give California the same 55 electoral votes they had BEFORE they absorbed the expense of them. And with the new tax laws taking effect, more and more TAXPAYERS are going to the RED states, taking their electoral votes with them. The Democrat party is bleeding to death, slowly but surely.

Did you see where the state of California wants corporations to surrender one half of their tax savings from the Trump deal to the state?

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/California-democrats-want-businesses-to-give-half-12508742.php

 

[Rightguide]

Those polls were expressly designed to shape public opinion not measure it. Which is what almost all publically reported polling is done for.

I wish more people understood this simple truth.

 

[bellisarius]

Maybe the fact that packing all 12 million illegal aliens into California would STILL only give California the same 55 electoral votes they had BEFORE they absorbed the expense of them. And with the new tax laws taking effect, more and more TAXPAYERS are going to the RED states, taking their electoral votes with them. The Democrat party is bleeding to death, slowly but surely.

This is true, but we humans are creatures of habit and they're taking their voting habits with them. Just as the illegals from the South of the border flee to the US to leave the corruption and crushing government regulations behind them to seek opportunity, criminal or legal, and then when given the opportunity to vote, vote for the same political philosophy that they fled from to begin with.

 

[Rightguide]

This is true, but we humans are creatures of habit and they're taking their voting habits with them. Just as the illegals from the South of the border flee to the US to leave the corruption and crushing government regulations behind them to seek opportunity, criminal or legal, and then when given the opportunity to vote, vote for the same political philosophy that they fled from to begin with.

They bring their Third World culture and innate acceptance of tin-horn totalitarianism with them. Then they insult us by plastering it all over every fence building and wall in the friggin neighborhood.

 

[Que]

Maybe the fact that packing all 12 million illegal aliens into California would STILL only give California the same 55 electoral votes they had BEFORE they absorbed the expense of them. And with the new tax laws taking effect, more and more TAXPAYERS are going to the RED states, taking their electoral votes with them. The Democrat party is bleeding to death, slowly but surely.

Innumeracy is the coin of the realm of the DNC.

 

[Luk]

Nobody gets a green card or visa without being vetted, chain migrant or no.

I wish more people understood this simple truth.

Oh good. Vette finally agrees with someone telling the truth.

 

[BobBalouski]

Let's wait and see if McConnell trips the nuclear option.

Over what?

 

[coachdb18]

This is true, but we humans are creatures of habit and they're taking their voting habits with them. Just as the illegals from the South of the border flee to the US to leave the corruption and crushing government regulations behind them to seek opportunity, criminal or legal, and then when given the opportunity to vote, vote for the same political philosophy that they fled from to begin with.

Oddly, it's the northern liberals who are also fleeing to the sunny south, (I've seen PLENTY of NY/NJ/Conn tax escapees here in NC), but as soon as they get here, they start wanting more government and more taxes! People too often bring about their own misery, and when they flee to leave their misery behind, all they do is bring it with them. I'm convinced it's better for all when those fleeing their situation just stay where they are, if they honestly want things different, they'll work on it where they are.

 

[Rightguide]

Over what?

Over the coming Daca debates and budget talks. If the Dems try and hold the senate and the country hostage again to their version of a Daca agreement, McConnell just might eliminate them from the equation by using the Nuclear Option for a simple Republican majority vote on their version of Daca and the budget, Ted Cruz is already signaling the possibility..

 

[Hypoxia]

Turn yourself in now, traitor. Bring a rope.

Oddly, it's the northern liberals who are also fleeing to the sunny south, (I've seen PLENTY of NY/NJ/Conn tax escapees here in NC), but as soon as they get here, they start wanting more government and more taxes!

They want a higher standard of living. Duh. NC doesn't rate well except in librul cities. California has a lower tax load than NC; northerners relocating to NC are those who couldn't go any further, to greener climes out West.

Don't worry, NC will stay gerrymandered a while longer. Your rural racists will yet rule the coop. Maybe they'll protect you when you turn yourself in. Or not.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Except for the fact that Trump totally favors amnesty for Dreamers, ie, legislating a clear path for them to citizenship, before all others - as does virtually all of his RINO support in Congress. All the Dems really have to do to call his bluff on that is to say no to walls and ending chain migration, and let him take ALL the politically-correct heat for possibly abandoning the Dreamers - which he won't do. Trump & RINOs have totally backed themselves into the Dreamer box. And, just like the original CA civil contract-into-same sex marriage scam, once illegal Dreamers are granted amnesty, illegal amnesty for endless others will be born automatically be born, too. The only way to stop lawlessness is to actually stop the lawlessness - that's not something Trump & RINOs are willing to do regarding the Dreamers.

In a way, you are correct, and would be with the typical Republican President who lacks the ability to talk to the people and to frame the issue in his terms and language. For example, the Democrats suck at both which is why the Schumer Shutdown trumped the Trump Shutdown.

 

[bellisarius]

Except for the fact that Trump totally favors amnesty for Dreamers, ie, legislating a clear path for them to citizenship, before all others - as does virtually all of his RINO support in Congress. All the Dems really have to do to call his bluff on that is to say no to walls and ending chain migration, and let him take ALL the politically-correct heat for possibly abandoning the Dreamers - which he won't do. Trump & RINOs have totally backed themselves into the Dreamer box. And, just like the original CA civil contract-into-same sex marriage scam, once illegal Dreamers are granted amnesty, illegal amnesty for endless others will be born automatically be born, too. The only way to stop lawlessness is to actually stop the lawlessness - that's not something Trump & RINOs are willing to do regarding the Dreamers.

Haven't read the thread, have ya dip shit?

 

[WoundedKnee]

In defeat, we see the usual catchphrases, popular vote, gerrymandering, etc. It's back to lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Oddly, it's the northern liberals who are also fleeing to the sunny south, (I've seen PLENTY of NY/NJ/Conn tax escapees here in NC), but as soon as they get here, they start wanting more government and more taxes! People too often bring about their own misery, and when they flee to leave their misery behind, all they do is bring it with them. I'm convinced it's better for all when those fleeing their situation just stay where they are, if they honestly want things different, they'll work on it where they are.

The same thing happened when the major cities became high tax havens where the emphasis was spending on minorities which caused the phenomenon of "white flight" and the creation of new suburbs in rural areas where the new arrivals brought with them the same ideas and attitudes which gradually created that from which they fled. As it is with Socialism, the historical, and current, examples of its failure never seem to dissuade because the dream of what could be, if the right people were to implement it.

 

[bellisarius]

I think it's pretty clear now that the Dem's are going to get their DACA amnesty, whether under existing rules (see post 26 this thread) or some modification thereof and Trump is going to get the wall and merit based immigration (ending the lottery and chain migration). Of course there's going to be some bickering over the details, but the end results will be much the same.

The democrats are counting on taking over the Senate and the House this fall and the fact that if they can do that they're going to start whittling away at what ever is agreed to by burying little poison pills in succeeding legislation. Of course they have to win those elections first. Statistically and historically they do have the upper hand. On the other hand Trump is a fighter and what impact his personal intervention may have is unknown at this point, as is what the impact of his legislation and EO's will have on the general electorate.

Getting back to DACA and the rules I posted in post #26 in this thread as well as the link, there are some interesting numbers surrounding the proposed legislation. First it is claimed that there are upwards of 3.something million potential applicants, and that number was true long before Trump was elected, but there was but 800,000 initial applicants. Why such a low number? Could the rules put in place by the Obama administration be an obstacle? Further there have been but 620,000 re-registrants for the program. So some 180,000 either haven't bothered to re-register, or have been turned down for not meeting the requirements. I haven't been able to find out exactly why the drop from any authoritative source. But you can bet that those "rules" are going to be a bickering point in the coming negotiations. You can bet the democrats are going to try to water them down as much as they possibly can.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I'm not so sure. I think that the Democrats will draw a line in the sand when it comes to chain immigration, it is necessary to their plans to the point of going nuclear.

Edited to add: And when it comes to E-Verify, you're going to hear the same screaming and ranting about racism as you saw in the push for photo IDs to vote.

 

[bellisarius]

I'm not so sure. I think that the Democrats will draw a line in the sand when it comes to chain immigration, it is necessary to their plans to the point of going nuclear.

You have a point but they are losing political capital daily. If the reports re. the fallout from the 'collusion' bull shit are even halfway close to the truth their 'messaging' is going to take a severe blow. Polls, always subject to question, are showing black and latino voters swinging towards Trump. I suspect that those numbers are a reflection of the improved economy.

 

[WoundedKnee]

You have a point but they are losing political capital daily. If the reports re. the fallout from the 'collusion' bull shit are even halfway close to the truth their 'messaging' is going to take a severe blow. Polls, always subject to question, are showing black and latino voters swinging towards Trump. I suspect that those numbers are a reflection of the improved economy.

They are convinced that they are going to flip the House based upon their current strategy. However, I am currently reading a book focused on New Mexico's desert areas and it talks of the deep resentment of the "native" Hispanics against the Mexicans (and they do not view them as Hispanics, but as Mexican invaders who are wresting from them that which they built over several centuries). Those closest to the "immigration" may be a lot more passionate about the issue than those furthest away from it in DC who are insulated from reality by layers upon layers of security and walls. Currently only one person seems to understand their concerns while one party completely ignores their objections. I think too, that some blac----, I mean, African Americans are becoming 'woke' to the idea that the flood of Mexican illegals is taking the jobs that they want to do, but by being citizens, they are priced out of the market when it comes to their labor costs verses the labor cost of an illegal immigrant.

 

[bellisarius]

They are convinced that they are going to flip the House based upon their current strategy. However, I am currently reading a book focused on New Mexico's desert areas and it talks of the deep resentment of the "native" Hispanics against the Mexicans (and they do not view them as Hispanics, but as Mexican invaders who are wresting from them that which they built over several centuries). Those closest to the "immigration" may be a lot more passionate about the issue than those furthest away from it in DC who are insulated from reality by layers upon layers of security and walls. Currently only one person seems to understand their concerns while one party completely ignores their objections. I think too, that some blac----, I mean, African Americans are becoming 'woke' to the idea that the flood of Mexican illegals is taking the jobs that they want to do, but by being citizens, they are priced out of the market when it comes to their labor costs verses the labor cost of an illegal immigrant.

Re. New Mexico. True enough. One of the remarkable things is the Indian (Native American *chuckle*) vote. If you look at the map of New Mexico voting by county in the last election you see two big blotches of red in the western part of the state. One in the extreme NW and one in the West-Central area. Those are the Navajo and Zuni/Apache reservations respectively.

 

[WoundedKnee]

That too is mentioned in the book. If it weren't so autobiographical, I would recommend it as a read.

 

[coati]

and it talks of the deep resentment of the "native" Hispanics against the Mexicans

Building a political strategy on resentment and fear has become pretty much become the core of the Repugnican philosophy. The problem is, those sorts of regimes historically lead to collapse, due to lack of ethics and proactive thinking. And when they collapse, they take a huge toll on everyone

The 2008 economic collapse was probably just a pre-tremor of the big one.

 

[WoundedKnee]

lol - In the wake of an ass-kicking, it's back to the big collapse and the decades old mean that the Republicans are the party of fear and hate, therefore good Democrats fear and hate them and try to spread it to other voters. It just doesn't get any funnier than that. I think you and Hypoxia are operating from the same hymnal. Have a nice day.