GOP pushes back on raising minimum wage

[mercury14]

Yep, you just can't live like you're making $50,000 a year like most like to think they should be able to live.

Milton Friedman did a very good job of exposing the myth of the Minimum Wage and how it kills low paying jobs.

Unfortunately for you and Uncle Milt, his theories don't play out in real life though. Conservatives here like to bitch and moan about liberals using "theory" rather than real life examples to back their points - and now that the tables are turned you act like you've been a fan of theory this whole time.

Ol' Uncle Milt forgot to factor in the fact that if workers make more, they spend more into the economy, increasing demand and fueling job growth. Just a teeny bit of an oversight.

 

[unregistered]

 

[BotanyBoy]

If you can't cite it how can you possibly make that claim?

I'm not telling you it can't be done, the math is telling you it can't be done.

You are seriously saying there are no places in america to live for 500 bucks a month or less?

I gave you a cite...even found a shit load in expensive ass NYC...even a couple rental houses.

http://hotpads.com/search#lat=40.78...0&includeVaguePricing=false&resultsPerQuad=24

If they can be had that cheap in NYC and SF...they can be found anywhere. Thrift stores are in every town/city.....ramen is cheap everywhere.

You can shelter/feed/clothe yourself on minimum wage....millions do it every day.

It licks balls no doubt....but you will go to a dry bed with a full belly.

 

[mercury14]

Its not ever worth debating the unmerits of such a stupid idea as this. The Democrat leadership knows perfectly well its a dumb idea to push this to such a high level, will cost jobs, shrink the economy, and probably cause inflation.

They are using it because their focus groups tell them its a "feel good" populist issue and best of all they can further demonize their opponents if they dare to come out against it. Its a political spear and they could care less if it actually makes the economy worse and hurts more people than it helps.

So if jobs get better in America then the economy goes in the shitter? Except when Bush was president the conservative mantra was that we needed high paying jobs for Americans. Were you lying then or are you lying now?

 

[mercury14]

You are seriously saying there are no places in america to live for 500 bucks a month or less?

I gave you a cite...even found a shit load in expensive ass NYC...even a couple rental houses.

http://hotpads.com/search#lat=40.78...0&includeVaguePricing=false&resultsPerQuad=24

If they can be had that cheap in NYC and SF...they can be found anywhere. Thrift stores are in every town/city.....ramen is cheap everywhere.

You can shelter/feed/clothe yourself on minimum wage....millions do it every day.

Many of those millions are also getting food stamps, housing vouchers, WIC, EIC tax credits, Medicaid, etc.

What if the person has a kid? Can they still get by on min wage?

 

[renard_ruse]

Its not ever worth debating the unmerits of such a stupid idea as this. The Democrat leadership knows perfectly well its a dumb idea to push this to such a high level, will cost jobs, shrink the economy, and probably cause inflation.

They are using it because their focus groups tell them its a "feel good" populist issue and best of all they can further demonize their opponents if they dare to come out against it. Its a political spear and they could care less if it actually makes the economy worse and hurts more people than it helps.

In fact, lets be clear also, the Democrat leadership also knows perfectly well that the Republicans are not a viable opposition at this time. They need them to be there though. The last thing they want is for the GOP to actually disappear, they need to have a boogeyman opposition to demonize and blame for society's problems. If the GOP didn't exist the ruling party would have to create a phoney controlled "opposition" to make it look like there were "bad guys" who are the true evil force keeping the people down so the people would be worked up to support the ruling party.

The buffoon party of Walter Mondale and Dukakis of thirty years ago has been replaced by a shrewd, Machievellian machine that knows exactly what its doing and is incredibly politically effective at it. What's most impressive, in a perverse sort of way, is the fact that they are doing this within the framework of what is still a functioning democracy. They are operating exactly as though many dictatorships do, down to slavish support from a compliant media, yet without having to resort to dictatorship. Its actually fascinating to watch what's going on, as horrifying as it is, especially that they are putting this over on the vast majority of people who have no clue what's happening.

 

[mercury14]

In fact, lets be clear also, the Democrat leadership also knows perfectly well that the Republicans are not a viable opposition at this time. They need them to be there though. The last thing they want is for the GOP to actually disappear, they need to have a boogeyman opposition to demonize and blame for society's problems. If the GOP didn't exist the ruling party would have to create a phoney controlled "opposition" to make it look like there were "bad guys" who are the true evil force keeping the people down so the people would be worked up to support the ruling party.

The buffoon party of Walter Mondale and Dukakis of thirty years ago has been replaced by a shrewd, Machievellian machine that knows exactly what its doing and is incredibly politically effective at it. What's most impressive, in a perverse sort of way, is the fact that they are doing this within the framework of what is still a functioning democracy. They are operating exactly as though many dictatorships do, down to slavish support from a compliant media, yet without having to resort to dictatorship. Its actually fascinating to watch what's going on, as horrifying as it is, especially that they are putting this over on the vast majority of people who have no clue what's happening.

So they're acting like Republicans.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You are seriously saying there are no places in america to live for 500 bucks a month or less?

I gave you a cite...even found a shit load in expensive ass NYC...even a couple rental houses.

http://hotpads.com/search#lat=40.78...0&includeVaguePricing=false&resultsPerQuad=24

If they can be had that cheap in NYC and SF...they can be found anywhere. Thrift stores are in every town/city.....ramen is cheap everywhere.

You can shelter/feed/clothe yourself on minimum wage....millions do it every day.

It licks balls no doubt....but you will go to a dry bed with a full belly.

Uh, no. I've never said anything close to that. I simply asked you to back up your claim that there are "plenty of of places in every US city for $300-500".

The link you just provided DOES NOT DO THAT. When you actually pull up some of these places you'd see things like "must be female", "share single room with 3 others"...etc.

I'm not arguing that it won't suck.

 

[neci]

We don't have that problem here in the US....7.25/ hr WILL feed/cloth/ shelter you.

it won't buy you healthcare or cover transportation costs.

#firstworldproblems

 

[BotanyBoy]

Many of those millions are also getting food stamps, housing vouchers, WIC, EIC tax credits, Medicaid, etc.

What if the person has a kid? Can they still get by on min wage?

Well why wouldn't they, all they have to do is ask....and they get free money....they ask for more and get it...ask for more and get it....ask for more and get it.

At what point do you say no more cool guy clothes and I phones for you. You need to take your sorry ass to cricket and the thrift store?

If they are living a minimum wage life why in the mother fuck are they having kids to the tune of 600,000 dollars a fucking pop?? hmmm??

Why should we be REWARDING people for dumb ass shit?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Well why wouldn't they, all they have to do is ask....and they get free money....they ask for more and get it...ask for more and get it....ask for more and get it.

At what point do you say no more cool guy clothes and I phones for you. You need to take your sorry ass to cricket and the thrift store?

If they are living a minimum wage life why in the mother fuck are they having kids to the tune of 600,000 dollars a fucking pop?? hmmm??

Why should we be REWARDING people for dumb ass shit?

Would you please let everyone know how to get this free money? I would love some free money.

 

[neci]

Would you please let everyone know how to get this free money? I would love some free money.

if you have $0 in the bank and pocket, minimal old cars in your name and bills to pay and no food to eat, you can go apply for TANF.

 

[neci]

lifetime benefits apply.

 

[renard_ruse]

...The buffoon party of Walter Mondale and Dukakis of thirty years ago has been replaced by a shrewd, Machievellian machine that knows exactly what its doing and is incredibly politically effective at it. What's most impressive, in a perverse sort of way, is the fact that they are doing this within the framework of what is still a functioning democracy. They are operating exactly as though many dictatorships do, down to slavish support from a compliant media, yet without having to resort to dictatorship. Its actually fascinating to watch what's going on, as horrifying as it is, especially that they are putting this over on the vast majority of people who have no clue what's happening.

To further reiterate the last point, what I find most impressive is that they are establishing many of the hallmarks that define left (or right) wing dictatorships without having to establish an actual dictatorship. In an open dictatorship, the public knows its being ruled by tyrants and in almost all cases (with the occasional rare exception) the majority HATE what is happening and only a minority support the regime. The public in our country today do not realize the government, party, and media are consolidating their power and lying to them about imaginary boogeypeople (Republicans, whitey, the rich, CEOs, etc) to gain their support.

 

[mercury14]

Well why wouldn't they, all they have to do is ask....and they get free money....they ask for more and get it...ask for more and get it....ask for more and get it.

At what point do you say no more cool guy clothes and I phones for you. You need to take your sorry ass to cricket and the thrift store?

If they are living a minimum wage life why in the mother fuck are they having kids to the tune of 600,000 dollars a fucking pop?? hmmm??

Why should we be REWARDING people for dumb ass shit?

Therefore I am right and you are wrong. People get by at minimum wage tend to get by due to soaking up government benefits even though they work full-time, They don't get by as you suggested, not without help. The free market fucks low income people over, causing them to need state support and/or charitable handouts to survive. And they do things like get routine medical care through hospital emergency rooms and then can't pay, therefore passing the cost off onto those who do pay in the firm of higher rates.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Uh, no. I've never said anything close to that. I simply asked you to back up your claim that there are "plenty of of places in every US city for $300-500".

The link you just provided DOES NOT DO THAT. When you actually pull up some of these places you'd see things like "must be female", "share single room with 3 others"...etc.

I'm not arguing that it won't suck.

So? I never said it would be nice or comfy...I said you could shelter yourself. It proves my point exactly. You can live and provide basic needs on min wage....I did it for two fucking years bro. Ate lots of ramen/microwaveable meals, took a lot of bus rides and wore lots of uncool 2nd hand clothes....but they served me and I got out of it.

it won't buy you healthcare or cover transportation costs.

#firstworldproblems

Pretty much...but even then you go to an ER? you will be taken care of and I have never lived in a town with a population over 3000 that didn't have some form of public trans.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

if you have $0 in the bank and pocket, minimal old cars in your name and bills to pay and no food to eat, you can go apply for TANF.

But that isn't free money. People pay for that through taxes.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Therefore I am right and you are wrong. People get by at minimum wage tend to get by due to soaking up government benefits even though they work full-time,

You just said I was right.....just because they use it doesn't mean it's needed.

Once again, a person can clothe/feed/shelter yourself on a minimum wage income.

Benefits and all that other shit are luxuries bro....not necessities.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

So? I never said it would be nice or comfy...I said you could shelter yourself. It proves my point exactly. You can live and provide basic needs on min wage....I did it for two fucking years bro. Ate lots of ramen/microwaveable meals, took a lot of bus rides and wore lots of uncool 2nd hand clothes....but they served me and I got out of it.



Pretty much...but even then you go to an ER? you will be taken care of and I have never lived in a town with a population over 3000 that didn't have some form of public trans.

Exactly. You said you could shelter , clothe & feed yourself. I'm simply asking you to prove that.

 

[mercury14]

To further reiterate the last point, what I find most impressive is that they are establishing many of the hallmarks that define left (or right) wing dictatorships without having to establish an actual dictatorship. In an open dictatorship, the public knows its being ruled by tyrants and in almost all cases (with the occasional rare exception) the majority HATE what is happening and only a minority support the regime. The public in our country today do not realize the government, party, and media are consolidating their power and lying to them about imaginary boogeypeople (Republicans, whitey, the rich, CEOs, etc) to gain their support.

If Republicans want to stop being seen as boogeymen then perhaps they should stop saying so many unappealing things.

 

[John Doe]

We don't have that problem here in the US....7.25/ hr WILL feed/cloth/ shelter you.

That depends where you live. I know in my area 7.25/hr wouldn't be even close to covering basic needs, which is probably why my state's minimum wage is over $2 higher than that.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Exactly. You said you could shelter , clothe & feed yourself. I'm simply asking you to prove that.

Ummm I have done it before along with MILLIONS of other people??

Given 800-1000 bucks a month (full time min wage) anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size can budget a room to rent, some food and 50 bucks worth of clothes a year.....it's not that hard.

I know your privileged ass couldn't IMAGINE living on anything less than 80k a year + benefits but it can be done.

 

[mercury14]

You just said I was right.....just because they use it doesn't mean it's needed.

Once again, a person can clothe/feed/shelter yourself on a minimum wage income.

Benefits and all that other shit are luxuries bro....not necessities.

They live in poverty. Working full time.

And their babies and children live in poverty and grown up in poverty. Want to have a chat about how much child poverty costs society?

And they're saving nothing for retirement.

And they don't get medical care other than expensive ER care that they can't pay for.

And they can't pay for unexpected costs such as medicine or medicine for their children.

And if they get laid off they're extremely vulnerable to being evicted and becoming homeless.



That's your vision of America? A place where our people work full time and end up living like that?

 

[BotanyBoy]

That depends where you live. I know in my area 7.25/hr wouldn't be even close to covering basic needs, which is probably why my state's minimum wage is over $2 higher than that.

State/city problem....if CA/NY/HI want to keep their min wage workers asking if they want fries with that. But the other 95% of the nation 7.25/hr will get you covered. If not maybe they should look somewhere other than Malibu or Martha's fucking vineyard to live...

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

State/city problem....if CA/NY/HI want to keep their min wage workers asking if they want fries with that. But the other 95% of the nation 7.25/hr will get you covered. If not maybe they should look somewhere other than Malibu or Martha's fucking vineyard to live...

And now you're backpedaling. You said there were "plenty of places for$300-500 in every city".

How do they afford to move on minimum wage?