Forced Feminization - I feel negative about it - help me understand the appeal

[Erochic]

I'm a dominant woman and this is something that is fairly popular in depictions of Femdom - and I can't understand it.

I was recently talking with someone about possibly starting a D/s relationship and he mentioned that he was into forced feminization and I had a pretty strong negative reaction to it.

I think there are a number of reasons that I don't like the idea.
I don't like humiliation anyway... Because I can't square humiliation with maintaining respect for someone.
I also don't like the idea that dressing up as a woman seems to a shorthand for being weak - that seems to completely contradict the idea of female dominance and appreciating the strength of women.
I guess that also ties in with the fact that even though I am womanly and feminine - I'm not actually very girly... And was always quite a tomboy growing up. I do like to dress up and look hot when I feel like it, but I get pretty bored with all the "girly" stuff
And when I dominate a man I like to enjoy the fact that he is a man, and is at my mercy.

I'm trying to see if I can perhaps understand it a little so I can maybe rephrase it in my mind in a way that I can accept and deal with. I'm not sure if this is a situation that will develop anyway, but if it does I would want to be in a frame of mind where I'm prepared to at least consider it.

I think I'm much more open to incorporating cross dressing in play if it's not associated with humiliation and dressing like a girl as being submissive - but as I understand it that's pretty core to the appeal?

For men who enjoy forced feminization in a female domination setting...
What is is about forced feminization that you enjoy?
Why do you think it is so powerful for you?
Do you feel that it is an essential part of the submission process for you?
Could you do it in a way where the forced element was removed and still find it enjoyable?

 

[Erochic]

I'm sorry, I guess my negativity about it was pretty strong, and I can see how that would be off putting.

I have been reading some posts that talk about why guys like cross dressing and I can really relate to the different textures and sensations and fit could be exciting and arousing.
That may be a way in for me mentally if that's a way I decide to move forward.

 

[policywank]

I tend to feel like you - it feels to me that the starting premise is that cross-dressing or associating with being either feminine or non-heterosexual is a bad place to start because those things don't have much of anything to do with weakness.

But then I also think that aspects of "humiliation" are often driven by what outsiders think as opposed to what the person themself feels. When my cuckold and I role play I know he is enjoying what is going on himself but he also gets a thrill out of how others would judge it.

Could it be that the person enjoying forced feminization does not himself infer all those negative perceptions that others do but is titillated or aroused by the fact that others do or would? The thrill of facing those fears of judgment and the liberation of just letting it all go? Again my cuckold speaks of the serenity that comes from letting those views overwhelm then flow through and past him (the way some people describe their approach to fear) after which it has no impact anymore.

Or not - just pure speculation.

 

[Erochic]

I tend to feel like you - it feels to me that the starting premise is that cross-dressing or associating with being either feminine or non-heterosexual is a bad place to start because those things don't have much of anything to do with weakness.

But then I also think that aspects of "humiliation" are often driven by what outsiders think as opposed to what the person themself feels. When my cuckold and I role play I know he is enjoying what is going on himself but he also gets a thrill out of how others would judge it.

Could it be that the person enjoying forced feminization does not himself infer all those negative perceptions that others do but is titillated or aroused by the fact that others do or would? The thrill of facing those fears of judgment and the liberation of just letting it all go? Again my cuckold speaks of the serenity that comes from letting those views overwhelm then flow through and past him (the way some people describe their approach to fear) after which it has no impact anymore.

Or not - just pure speculation.

Oh thank you! That has given me an interesting way to look at it and maybe find a way to accept it on some level.

I think men can really suffer from the expectations of what it means to be a man ... Toxic masculinity ... And I know in some ways submissive can maybe be part of letting that go.

Time was that women had very confining restrictions about femininity ... But even though there is still a way to go there have been huge changes in the way women are allowed to dress and act.

I can wear pants and "masculine" style activities without too much comment, but I don't think there has been the same level of normalcy or acceptance of men taking on more traditionally "feminine" pursuits or attire.

So those feelings of expected humiliation and judgement from the outside are very real ... And maybe the idea of being forced takes away the heavy responsibility of always having to be a "real man".

 

[policywank]

You are welcome.

I think your point about the confines of traditional versions of masculinity is very significant. So I actually asked my husband about this topic.

When he started exploring his sexuality more fully he says there was something fundamentally liberating about testing things that men are aggressively encouraged not to consider. Apparently he dabbled with feminization notions more than I was aware! None of it appealed to him but he found the ability to explore to be exhilarating. Maybe for a man somewhat less adventurous (or more conflicted) it helps to have a Dom "make" him do it. That is independent of whether it is a deep-seated desire or something he simply wishes to do to push his limits.

I also think that for a Sub it can be more about obedience than the acts that evidence that obedience. And a Sub without a Dom might need to bring their own direction to their fantasy in the absence of an actual Dom to instruct them. For a man wishing to be pushed outside his comfort zone as a test of his obedience, feminization would be a natural choice.

Good luck.

 

[J_R_Ashunwhy]

I would be careful lumping 'cross-dressers' into the 'forced feminization' crowd. I have seen being allowed to cross-dress, be used as a form of reward as opposed/in addition to a punishment; it just depends what everyone is comfortable with, or what the parties involved, are trying to express with the act.

I have met several cross-dressers that express the opposite opinion of cross-dressing being any kind of submissive act. They idolize the gender they are portraying, and the men I spoke with were trying to pay tribute to women as a whole. They saw women as being the more powerful, sexier, stronger ect. gender, and the men involved were trying to create a new self image to find that strength and power that they felt was missing from their own lives.
Some all out drag-queens I was fortunate enough to party with a few years ago, kept insisting that I help teach them how to walk more like I do. They kept complimenting my 'fierce, don't give a shit, bad-ass bitch' attitude that I apparently have when I walk, :shrugs: and they desperately wanted to emulate that attitude in their own walk to express their own female strength.

There are also some people that identify as trans, and the cross-dressing is a way for them to escape the gender they feel trapped in.

 

[policywank]

I would be careful lumping 'cross-dressers' into the 'forced feminization' crowd. I have seen being allowed to cross-dress, be used as a form of reward as opposed/in addition to a punishment; it just depends what everyone is comfortable with, or what the parties involved, are trying to express with the act.

I have met several cross-dressers that express the opposite opinion of cross-dressing being any kind of submissive act. They idolize the gender they are portraying, and the men I spoke with were trying to pay tribute to women as a whole. They saw women as being the more powerful, sexier, stronger ect. gender, and the men involved were trying to create a new self image to find that strength and power that they felt was missing from their own lives.
Some all out drag-queens I was fortunate enough to party with a few years ago, kept insisting that I help teach them how to walk more like I do. They kept complimenting my 'fierce, don't give a shit, bad-ass bitch' attitude that I apparently have when I walk, :shrugs: and they desperately wanted to emulate that attitude in their own walk to express their own female strength.

There are also some people that identify as trans, and the cross-dressing is a way for them to escape the gender they feel trapped in.

I agree with this but I guess it depends upon which direction from which you are approaching the topic.

There are a variety of reasons that a man may choose cross-dressing that are unrelated to feminization (at least the the fetish sense of the word). However, for a man seeking to engage in forced feminization it stands to reason that dressing him up in a feminine way (i.e. as a woman) would be part of the experience (perhaps not essential but likely desirable and a compelling aspect of the experience).

 

[Netzach]

In my world too - girly = weak slut automatically is bullshit. But I don't mind this kind of scene because I give it my OWN make over when I do it.

It's either humiliation or it's beautification. If it's the latter - if it's improvement - then it's playing with dolls all over again, and I like that. I will make her the prettiest possible doll I can make her and I will probably make her act as much as possible like a doll with a no talk rule. She's surrendered herself to aesthetics and boys have rarely ever encountered a situation where they MUST shut up unless someone has a badge.

If it's humiliation, then that's another thing. One loves this, or one's doesn't. I love it, though I never inject it into a relationship where it's not. It always comes to me from the bottom and travels up to me, never the other way.

I don't play with anyone who considers their own sexist convoluted grossness of associating weakness and sexual looseness with femininity somehow off topical limits, because guess what I'm going to be humiliating you about while making you into the ugliest girl I possibly can? Not that you're a slutty slut slag, but that you ACTUALLY thought that sliding into a thong and waving your hairy blubber would make you more like ME.

Doing consented to physical violence to a man while lecturing him on being an ugly girl and what ugly girls can expect out of this life and what he WOULD be able to expect if only he were a pretty girl = priceless. (And it's not just him I'm talking about, thus blowing off a lot of steam.)

But that's just me.

 

[policywank]

Lots of interesting perspectives from both a Dom and Sub point of view. I really enjoy hearing such a broad range especially on a topic that is usually reduced (at least in main stream society) to simplistic and inaccurate characterizations.

 

[SlutAddicted]

In my world too - girly = weak slut automatically is bullshit. But I don't mind this kind of scene because I give it my OWN make over when I do it.

It's either humiliation or it's beautification. If it's the latter - if it's improvement - then it's playing with dolls all over again, and I like that. I will make her the prettiest possible doll I can make her and I will probably make her act as much as possible like a doll with a no talk rule. She's surrendered herself to aesthetics and boys have rarely ever encountered a situation where they MUST shut up unless someone has a badge.

If it's humiliation, then that's another thing. One loves this, or one's doesn't. I love it, though I never inject it into a relationship where it's not. It always comes to me from the bottom and travels up to me, never the other way.

I don't play with anyone who considers their own sexist convoluted grossness of associating weakness and sexual looseness with femininity somehow off topical limits, because guess what I'm going to be humiliating you about while making you into the ugliest girl I possibly can? Not that you're a slutty slut slag, but that you ACTUALLY thought that sliding into a thong and waving your hairy blubber would make you more like ME.

Doing consented to physical violence to a man while lecturing him on being an ugly girl and what ugly girls can expect out of this life and what he WOULD be able to expect if only he were a pretty girl = priceless. (And it's not just him I'm talking about, thus blowing off a lot of steam.)

But that's just me.

Oh that's going to keep me busy for a while.

I've only just dabbled in the notion of feminization. I find the allure of a beautiful woman to be so intense that I can't imagine how anyone would pass up the chance to be her for just one day - regardless of whether sex is involved or with whom. But the notion hits a wall because I might as well wish to be a unicorn or the starting centre for the Chicago Bulls- not gonna happen. I like being who I am and couldn't stretch my imagination that far if I tried.

Now I have to think about doing exactly that for a woman who could run me around the block, take me to the depth of delusion and then back again. You are a very bad girl and I like it.

 

[Erochic]

You are a very bad girl and I like it.

Ewww... What the fuck was that?

Did you just sling your dick out and start typing?


You managed to be creepy and patronizing at the same time - well done

 

[SlutAddicted]

Ewww... What the fuck was that?

Did you just sling your dick out and start typing?


You managed to be creepy and patronizing at the same time - well done

Really? How so? She provided a perspective that resonated with me and I tried my best to articulate its impact. So now you are giving me the ewww?

That wasn't necessary. I'll go back into my shell if you like and you can work out the irony of struggling to understand a man's deviant desires while reserving the right to judge the parts that you don't like.

 

[Ksbipantyluvr]

Feminization

Erochic, thank you for this thread and your other - submissive men. It's refreshing to hear from a woman's point of view. I enjoy being femme'd to a point, panties and sometimes more. To me it's less humiliating and more a release from male norms and tribute to women. Wearing panties daily makes me more centered, more aware of myself and my desires. If that makes any sense.

 

[DudeA]

Question, would you find cross-dressing to be attractive, or would you prefer men to be men?

I feel like forced-feminization is more of a guy-fantasy... and it usually doesn't mesh that well with dommes. I find that kind of interesting. However as a dom myself I would like to feminize a female sub...

 

[Netzach]

Question, would you find cross-dressing to be attractive, or would you prefer men to be men?

I feel like forced-feminization is more of a guy-fantasy... and it usually doesn't mesh that well with dommes. I find that kind of interesting. However as a dom myself I would like to feminize a female sub...

How long is a piece of string?

Some men are hot. Some are not. Some women are hot. Some are not. Some CD's are hot. Some are not. And people are fighting all over the internet all the time because hot is about as subjective as it gets.

 

[eroticspank]

Look at it this way:

Being "forced" to do something you already like or want to try gives the person the excuse they were forced to do it vs admitting in their own mind they like it.

I have more to say on this subject, but that is my thought for now.

ES

 

[Freya_Gin]

I'm with Erochic here. I just can't get into the "forced" aspect of forced fem. I like the idea of dressing up my sub into femmy lingerie and such; the sluttier, the better (it's especially hot if he has a slim, boyish figure). But forced fem is meant to be degrading. Degradation and humiliation just aren't my kink-- it recalls abuse early in my life for me. I don't get the appeal either.

 

[eroticspank]

I feel like we are talking in kind of a grey area. In my mind it is similar to people who say they don't like BDSM because they are not into pain. Well it depends on what kind of pain we are talking about. The intense pain of getting your arm cut off is not what we are talking about. The pain is way down on the scale and is accompanied with some pleasure or a pleasurable situation. It is the mix of those two along with the mind play is what makes it intense, invigorating and fun.

Bondage: You tie up the sub and then do things to him (Kind of) against his will. Some Dommes tease the sub physically getting him very hard, perhaps to the point of orgasm and stopping. Then there is getting the sub to pleasure the Domme, forcing him to forget his own pleasure and submit to hers. He is forced to please her before she will please him.

Panties are made of typically very nice material that is pleasing to most dicks. You tell a sub to put on a pair of panties. He does because you told him so. If it is his first time wearing them or he has before, it is easy for most guys to get an erection while wearing them and hard to avoid the feeling of embarrassment when you do in front of a woman, your Domme. It is also a mind fuck because guys think this material was just against her warm pussy.

When it happened to me, my thought was, "Wait a minute, I am not a Crossdresser! Stop that dick, don't get hard, but it does feel good..."
Add to that some verbal teasing from the Domme and even more embarrassment. That to me, is humiliation, maybe light humiliation but humiliation. It is a mind fuck and it is about the guy losing control of his dick.

I know several women that enjoy this kind of control and play. To them it is fun to push the boundaries of the sub and get him to see new things about himself. It is adult play. Sure if either of you were abused in some way that this brings something up, don't do it, but if not explore and enjoy.

In the situation above does that mean I am a Crossdresser? No, it just means my dick gets hard when it is rubbed with silk, satin, etc. Every time I try on panties in front of a Domme, I still get embarrassed and hard because of the Taboo situation. Would I try on more women's clothes? Yes if she wanted me to.

Remember that "forced" is only a term that makes it sound worse than it is. To say that I want to be tied up and have a woman "rape" my face or just rape me does not mean true rape, I could haves said, "have her way with me" or something else, but I like the term rape better.

So for me, I don't walk into a room with my Domme or even a vanilla woman and say, "How about I put on a pair of panties today?" Unless she tells me to put on a pair of panties because she thinks it is cute, likes to tease me in them, whatever, then I have no interest in it. So you may or may not call it forced, I guess that is up to each individual. To me it is not a turn on unless it is directed and desired by my Domme.

I hope this helps...

ES

 

[timeagain93]

it's never forced

hey young lady-it's never forced, the men LIKE it-they just want to think it's forced it’s not forced, s & m is about consent so anything anyone wants to do behind a safe word is desired.

 

[timeagain93]

my first wife wanted to know if men’s balls hung like dogs. she commanded me to get on all fours and she laughed, reaching out to squeeze them. “Are you my slave?” I agreed readily. later that day I was wearing a white corset and matching hose while cleaning the kitchen. I told her I was embarrassed and she shouted: “You like it!”

 

[paulthewetcd]

Forced Masculinization?

I have reread this thread several times in the past week, and find the discussion quite thought-provoking. Excellent question and comments!
For me, as a straight male who lives in a masculine real world, I feel as though I am forced to be more masculine than I am usually inclined. Both at work and at home, I restrain my feminine side.
Perhaps that is why I have a rich fantasy and fetish life that includes some cross dressing and feminization? And those are not forced...when I participate in a role play with a dominant woman, I am consenting (asking for) her dominance...because she knows what is good for me and will make sure I am safe. I trust her! At the end of a role play, I feel complete and fulfilled in a way that real life often does not provide.
I do not support forcing people into anything, nor do I support humiliating people. However, I do recognize that much of the porn that is pushed on us is crude.
So, thank you, Erochic, for starting your threads about beautiful images of submissiveness in BDSM relationships!

 

[Freya_Gin]

hey young lady-it's never forced, the men LIKE it-they just want to think it's forced it’s not forced, s & m is about consent so anything anyone wants to do behind a safe word is desired.

Young lady?! I'm 45. No one has called me that in 20 years!

Technically, no, it wouldn't really be forced but it could become so in a psychologically abusive manner. Of course, there are guys who would get off on that but I'm not into it myself.

my first wife wanted to know if men’s balls hung like dogs. she commanded me to get on all fours and she laughed, reaching out to squeeze them. “Are you my slave?” I agreed readily. later that day I was wearing a white corset and matching hose while cleaning the kitchen. I told her I was embarrassed and she shouted: “You like it!”

That is the kind of teasing I would do too. What turns me off is when it gets a lot harsher and the ridicule more extreme, to the point where it becomes degrading. And, unfortunately, that is what some people mean by forced feminization (as opposed to feminization). Dressing him up, or "making" him dress up, and then some teasing with him being a bit embarrassed is fun.

I have reread this thread several times in the past week, and find the discussion quite thought-provoking. Excellent question and comments!
For me, as a straight male who lives in a masculine real world, I feel as though I am forced to be more masculine than I am usually inclined. Both at work and at home, I restrain my feminine side.
Perhaps that is why I have a rich fantasy and fetish life that includes some cross dressing and feminization? And those are not forced...when I participate in a role play with a dominant woman, I am consenting (asking for) her dominance...because she knows what is good for me and will make sure I am safe. I trust her! At the end of a role play, I feel complete and fulfilled in a way that real life often does not provide.
I do not support forcing people into anything, nor do I support humiliating people. However, I do recognize that much of the porn that is pushed on us is crude.
So, thank you, Erochic, for starting your threads about beautiful images of submissiveness in BDSM relationships!

Paul has some good points here. There is an opposite side of the coin; more men than you might think would enjoy acting and looking feminine, but feel trapped in a situation where they don't dare indulge themselves. Yet there's enough stigma attached to cross-dressing and feminization that even kinksters like us often fail to recognize how bad this must make these men feel. For some cds, this is just as bad as a gay man who can't come out of the closet and must pretend to be straight.

And yes, a lot of porn of all kinds is crude. Cumming in her face, for example, is usually done in such a crude manner that it seems like an act of degradation to the woman. In any porn I've ever watched, it was obvious that they couldn't be bothered to try to make it actually erotic at all and were just going for the money shot. I remember a porno I watched once of an older woman with a young man--that situation right there sounds hot, but it couldn't have been more obvious that the two weren't interested in each other and that ruined it for me. So porn, at least video porn, is rarely all that great for me. I guess I'm a normal woman in that regard. Most of us prefer stories, I hear.

 

[eroticspank]

Young lady?! I'm 45. No one has called me that in 20 years!

Technically, no, it wouldn't really be forced but it could become so in a psychologically abusive manner. Of course, there are guys who would get off on that but I'm not into it myself.

That is the kind of teasing I would do too. What turns me off is when it gets a lot harsher and the ridicule more extreme, to the point where it becomes degrading. And, unfortunately, that is what some people mean by forced feminization (as opposed to feminization). Dressing him up, or "making" him dress up, and then some teasing with him being a bit embarrassed is fun.


Paul has some good points here. There is an opposite side of the coin; more men than you might think would enjoy acting and looking feminine, but feel trapped in a situation where they don't dare indulge themselves. Yet there's enough stigma attached to cross-dressing and feminization that even kinksters like us often fail to recognize how bad this must make these men feel. For some cds, this is just as bad as a gay man who can't come out of the closet and must pretend to be straight.

Porn, at least video porn, is rarely all that great for me. I guess I'm a normal woman in that regard. Most of us prefer stories, I hear.

I think most of us agree that the teasing, dressing up to get guys a bit embarrassed can be fun. I feel that when talking about "forced" feminization our minds tend to go to the worst case that involves abuse psychologically and maybe even physically in some way. I feel there is a very small minority of men and women that are truly into that kind of exchange and even that may involve role playing.

My point is most of us are not into the extreme forced feminization. It is regular forced feminization that can be very fun for a couple.

I agree with Paul and Freya_Gin the typical very masculine male many times finds himself trapped in the very macho role. Finding a woman to encourage him to come out of that role and be free to "pretend" to be feminine for a bit in the bedroom allows some guys to relax, try something new and in reality be themselves a part they have probably not explored before. To be able to do that in front of your woman, involves a lot of trust and chemistry. You have no worry she will run out to the nearest bar and yell out that her man just dressed up in woman's clothes. In some cases he may even allow her to penetrate him anally. This is all part of the role reversal.

Once the Domme or gf gives her man the order to act like a woman and does some type of dress-up, think of the things the guy is now "allowed" to do. 1. He can moan very loudly and express his emotion during sex. 2. He can cry if things gets emotional. 3. He can ask for affection or ask to be touched. 4. He can give or be more affectionate. (I can see this being a funny Sit com, the guy starts crying and his gf asks him if he is okay and he tells her, he was just pretending to be a girl.) Anyway, I think you get the idea, just about anything he would normally hold back on as a macho guy he can let go of in this role.

These are things most men would never reveal to their male best friends, there is usually no other men to talk to about this kind of stuff...except on forums etc. So that is why a very close, trusting, and loving female partner directing this stuff can be nice for some men.

I feel that Porn, rarely depicts the true dynamic in Forced feminization scenes, because they do tend to border on the extreme. It is usually a Domme with a sub she is calling names, vs a loving couple trying out something new. I agree that in stories you can read what each person is thinking and the lead up to the bedroom scene can be just as erotic regarding this type of scene.

ES

 

[kinkkey]

For me at least, I don't think of it in a "girl = weak" way at all.

It's more about the stripping of an identity, redefining every aspect of you. It's all about surrendering that part of what makes you you, and obeying all the rules that come along with your new role.

Two of my exs were into this, they loved dressing me up, and we were lucky enough to be close enough to the same size that they could make me wear their clothes, so they had a whole wardrobe all ready for the occasion.

They got a bit jealous though when they realized that I look better in their jeans then then they did, I just happen to have the hips for it.

 

[Blue]

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