Feeders - a new form of 24/7 bondage?

[catalina_francisco]

i think that anything can be called kinky and nothing is too strange. It is fine if both parties are happy with what they are doing.

If everything is consensual, it isn't abuse. i've been researching puppy play and i read about someone who had his pelvis and legs broken so that his posture would be more like a dogs. This was extreme but consensual. Both parties were happy in the end. i think that it is the responsibility of both to know the health risks though.

It may be that the guy is insecure but i still think that everything is fine and dandy if everyone is happy. Do what you like, like what you do...that's what i always say.

Point is most of these women were in the situation because they had weight issues to begin with and desperately wanted to be loved. The one whose partner felt it was a good way to make sure she was bedridden so she couldn't cheat (as far as I gathered she had never thought of cheating, it was his issue), eventually had to try repeatedly to get help to get away from him and labelled it abuse as it was not her wish but was imposed on her by him....she finally escaped him and was on a weight loss programme but still bedridden when the programme was filmed. He would even lock her up for days and leave nothing but ultra fattening food for her to eat so she either starved or got fatter...great choice. I do think that when you enter this lifestyle, you need to have your wits about you, and be mature and emotionally healthy enough not to fall into the trap of falling victim to someone under the guise of kink and D/s, or for some, seeking to shock others with how far they will go and enjoying the attention...until it is too late of course...and of course, like this doco showed, some people are so lonely, insecure etc., they will consent to anything just to stop their partner leaving them..that to me is not consent. One of the guys on the programme had divorced a previous wife because she lost weight, his new partner was doing everything she could to gain more and more so he wouldn't divorce her...once again, it is a matter of how consent is gained and if it is from a healthy and open choice.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

No, you've missed my point which was that this bunch of pots has a habit of calling kettles black.

Of all groups, this one should have a better understanding of unusual relationships & needs. Almost everyone on the planet has some self esteem issues & insecurities. Many could be seen & judged by others as being exploited & abused in their choice of lifestyle, including myself as a sub. This particular subject was just an example.

I don't understand the problem here. This forum is always talking about the difference in BDSM and abuse, and quite honestly I think it's a good thing. It's made me stop one or two times and think "okay is this really as safe as I oringinally thought" and "is this person really looking out for my best interest". And I'm sure there are others out there that can say the same thing. As a newbie it helped me to look deeper rather than just off the bat doing everything some one told me to do just because I am sub and he was Dom.

I think it's good when we do travel so close to that obsure line between D/s and abuse that we do talk about where we personally set the line. It makes others think about where they should set the line, and I think giving out this type of opinion could very well help stop some of this abuse.

And you know, my ex was a feeder on some levels. He's atracted to bigger women, and women with self esteme issues. He went shoping with me, and he would veto the healthy foods to buy more sweets and junk food.

I'm an emotional eater, so when ever I was upset, he took me for ice cream. When ever I would complain about my size he would say "you look beautiful to me".

It hurt me on so many levels, and while I didn't get up to 800lbs, I did get up to 375. I would sit and cry some times because I didn't have the energy to do simple things like load the dish washer with out taking 3-4 beaks. I felt ugly, I felt like no one could possibly love me. I felt worthless and I just wanted to die. And so he took me for ice cream.

I started to become a burden to him and he started looking for another girl and a way out of our marriage.

It took me a long time to feel like I was worth something, and a lot of incouragement to loose 150lbs (and still dropping ). It only took 4-6 months for me to gain 200lbs, and it took 2 years for me to drop that 150.

I wish some one would have shown me about feeders, I wish some one would have talked about abuse with me. But they didn't, and I spent the last year of my marriage feeling like I was nothing, and knowing he was on the hunt for my replacement.

I have a personality and an upbringing that lend me to be taken advantage of fairly easily. Granted I've learned a lot in the past 2 years to help keep me safe, but if it weren't for conversations like these I don't think I would have half the since to say "fuck off psyco" that I do now.

But that's just my pov.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't understand the problem here. This forum is always talking about the difference in BDSM and abuse, and quite honestly I think it's a good thing. It's made me stop one or two times and think "okay is this really as safe as I oringinally thought" and "is this person really looking out for my best interest". And I'm sure there are others out there that can say the same thing. As a newbie it helped me to look deeper rather than just off the bat doing everything some one told me to do just because I am sub and he was Dom.

I think it's good when we do travel so close to that obsure line between D/s and abuse that we do talk about where we personally set the line. It makes others think about where they should set the line, and I think giving out this type of opinion could very well help stop some of this abuse.

And you know, my ex was a feeder on some levels. He's atracted to bigger women, and women with self esteme issues. He went shoping with me, and he would veto the healthy foods to buy more sweets and junk food.

I'm an emotional eater, so when ever I was upset, he took me for ice cream. When ever I would complain about my size he would say "you look beautiful to me".

It hurt me on so many levels, and while I didn't get up to 800lbs, I did get up to 375. I would sit and cry some times because I didn't have the energy to do simple things like load the dish washer with out taking 3-4 beaks. I felt ugly, I felt like no one could possibly love me. I felt worthless and I just wanted to die. And so he took me for ice cream.

I started to become a burden to him and he started looking for another girl and a way out of our marriage.

It took me a long time to feel like I was worth something, and a lot of incouragement to loose 150lbs (and still dropping ). It only took 4-6 months for me to gain 200lbs, and it took 2 years for me to drop that 150.

I wish some one would have shown me about feeders, I wish some one would have talked about abuse with me. But they didn't, and I spent the last year of my marriage feeling like I was nothing, and knowing he was on the hunt for my replacement.

I have a personality and an upbringing that lend me to be taken advantage of fairly easily. Granted I've learned a lot in the past 2 years to help keep me safe, but if it weren't for conversations like these I don't think I would have half the since to say "fuck off psyco" that I do now.

But that's just my pov.

Great post, and I agree with you that there is value in the discussions we have here even if at times they get a little heated, personal or off track. It is much better to be able to speak openly about our thoughts, experiences and feelings, to ask questions of others we might not understand otherwise, than to sit quiet and say nothing or worse still, agree with everything and everyone so it all seems lovely on the surface. There have been countless occasions I have seen where someone will be agreeable in a thread and yet in PM's be saying quite the opposite and while I appreciate it is their choice, it often limits where a discussion could have gone and how someone might have better understood another POV in the long run. I hate confrontation with a passion, but I hate even more limiting my ability to learn and experience through open exchange. I know many discussions here over the years have given me reason to think, maybe change my POV, broaden my outlook on a particular area, and grow. I am happy you have reached a place where you can protect yourself and through that look forward to a healthier future where you can function and enjoy your life. It isn't an easy step to take.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

Great post, and I agree with you that there is value in the discussions we have here even if at times they get a little heated, personal or off track. It is much better to be able to speak openly about our thoughts, experiences and feelings, to ask questions of others we might not understand otherwise, than to sit quiet and say nothing or worse still, agree with everything and everyone so it all seems lovely on the surface. There have been countless occasions I have seen where someone will be agreeable in a thread and yet in PM's be saying quite the opposite and while I appreciate it is their choice, it often limits where a discussion could have gone and how someone might have better understood another POV in the long run. I hate confrontation with a passion, but I hate even more limiting my ability to learn and experience through open exchange. I know many discussions here over the years have given me reason to think, maybe change my POV, broaden my outlook on a particular area, and grow. I am happy you have reached a place where you can protect yourself and through that look forward to a healthier future where you can function and enjoy your life. It isn't an easy step to take.

Catalina

I really am glad that I found this section of lit and took a deep breath and dove in. Honestly this board scared me back when I used another name and stuck mostly in the AH.

And when I read the post that I quoted, I not only thought on myself, but on Kailey right now, and lil_slave_rose not so long ago and like they have expressed I remember feeling frusterated at some of the comments to my posts or responces to my questions. But you know they made me stop and think, and while I didn't always heed the advice given I did consider it and often that was enough to change my view ever so slightly, but enough to keep me out of real danger.

Personally, now that I've been here long enough to see these things, I hope things never change around here, and you and I keep butting heads from time to time.

 

[JMohegan]

If everything is consensual, it isn't abuse.

I disagree strongly with this statement.

If I hear it from an inexperienced person, I assume they are quite naive, or pretending to be so.

If I hear it from an experienced person, especially on the Top side, I take it as a truly mammoth red flag.

Abuse is not defined by the action itself, and it is not defined by the absence of consent. Abuse is defined by the effect of the action on the subject at hand.

Behavior that causes material and sustained deterioration in the subject's mental and physical health and happiness is abuse.

Can people consent to being abused? Of course they can, and unfortunately they do. All the time.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I disagree strongly with this statement.

If I hear it from an inexperienced person, I assume they are quite naive, or pretending to be so.

If I hear it from an experienced person, especially on the Top side, I take it as a truly mammoth red flag.

Abuse is not defined by the action itself, and it is not defined by the absence of consent. Abuse is defined by the effect of the action on the subject at hand.

Behavior that causes material and sustained deterioration in the subject's mental and physical health and happiness is abuse.

Can people consent to being abused? Of course they can, and unfortunately they do. All the time.

I agree in part, but not wholly. I think in situations where consent has been obtained through various methods which have nothing to do with free will and desire as in playing on weaknesses, emotional blackmail, coercion, intimidation, fear etc., it is abuse. I think where it is consent given freely by someone who desires the type relationship offered independent of any other influencing factor and after much thought processing, understanding, informative research, and preferrably someone mature enough to make that type of life changing decision, I don't see it as abuse.

It is too easy for the governments of today, and other areas of the community who feel they know better to seek to censor our lives beyond belief. Once upon a time it was law what you could and couldn't do in your own bedroom in terms of non-violent sex acts, and is swinging back that way again. I do not appreciate being told that my desires are wrong and that I have to be protected from myself. Many a mainstream person would object to the most basic acts within our lifestyle, even those which are not damaging in any way or involving SM methods, but that does not make it abuse just because it is not their thing....once you step in and begin deciding who is capable of making those decisions for themselves based on what others think is appropriate and/or desireable, you are opening the floodgates for mass censorship of our choices and lifestyles.

For instance, there are many people who have body modifications done for themselves regardless of what anyone else may want and outside of a relationship, but I don't see them as necessarily abusing themselves even though the changes may be permanent and involve implants (not just breast but also under the skin type), plastic surgery, tattoos, scarring etc. I do get concerned when I see someone who seems to be getting into more extreme areas of SM and D/s for the attention and/or shock factor though, and especially those who are very young and inexperienced in living life as an adult making adult and long term affective decisions. In the cases I saw on the doco, most of the women were inexperienced in relationships, some in life in general, and most had serious self esteem issues which made it easy for them to conform to the wants of these men who first showered them with affection, then made them virtual prisoners of their own bodies. Even though some had chronological age, most did not have the maturity of life experience and stability to make an informed choice to be made into the images these men were hellbent on doing.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

I agree in part, but not wholly. I think in situations where consent has been obtained through various methods which have nothing to do with free will and desire as in playing on weaknesses, emotional blackmail, coercion, intimidation, fear etc., it is abuse. I think where it is consent given freely by someone who desires the type relationship offered independent of any other influencing factor and after much thought processing, understanding, informative research, and preferrably someone mature enough to make that type of life changing decision, I don't see it as abuse.

My view on this is heavily influenced by my position of the Top side of the coin. Both the view, and the responsibilities, are very different. As you know.

I understand your remarks about "situations where consent has been obtained through" X, Y, and Z. But the fact is, consent has been obtained. It may very well be that consent was obtained in an unhealthy way, or for the wrong reasons. However, she *did* say yes.

I don't care how carefully two people discuss what they anticipate in a relationship, or how long they discuss it. There still is no way for either of those people to know exactly how they will feel or react to the incidents involved in the relationship at some future point in time.

In other words, no matter how scrupulously honest and honorable you are, there is no such thing as fully informed consent.

Therefore, I consider it my responsibility as the Dominant to constantly keep in the back of my mind the fact that consent is not enough. It is *never* enough. And the continued health and well-being of my partner is *always* my responsibility, no matter what she has ever said.

It is too easy for the governments of today, and other areas of the community who feel they know better to seek to censor our lives beyond belief. Once upon a time it was law what you could and couldn't do in your own bedroom in terms of non-violent sex acts, and is swinging back that way again. I do not appreciate being told that my desires are wrong and that I have to be protected from myself. Many a mainstream person would object to the most basic acts within our lifestyle, even those which are not damaging in any way or involving SM methods, but that does not make it abuse just because it is not their thing....once you step in and begin deciding who is capable of making those decisions for themselves based on what others think is appropriate and/or desireable, you are opening the floodgates for mass censorship of our choices and lifestyles.

I appreciate your concern about censorship. But isn't stepping in and deciding who is capable of making those decisions exactly what you are talking about in the first part of your post?

My remarks had nothing to do with the legalities involved in BDSM. I am looking at this from the point of view of individual responsibility. One person's responsibility to (as you wrote in an earlier post here) "have your wits about you", and the other person's responsibility to (as you wrote about F on RJ's thread) "question sometimes whether he is letting his own desires cloud his judgement, whether perhaps he is going to far".

I actually don't think our views are too far apart on the fundamental issue here. We are just framing things in a different way.

There is such a thing as consent obtained for the wrong reasons, and if you want to say this negates the consent itself then yes - I agree.

 

[Kailey_86]

My view on this is heavily influenced by my position of the Top side of the coin. Both the view, and the responsibilities, are very different. As you know.

I understand your remarks about "situations where consent has been obtained through" X, Y, and Z. But the fact is, consent has been obtained. It may very well be that consent was obtained in an unhealthy way, or for the wrong reasons. However, she *did* say yes.

I don't care how carefully two people discuss what they anticipate in a relationship, or how long they discuss it. There still is no way for either of those people to know exactly how they will feel or react to the incidents involved in the relationship at some future point in time.

In other words, no matter how scrupulously honest and honorable you are, there is no such thing as fully informed consent.

Therefore, I consider it my responsibility as the Dominant to constantly keep in the back of my mind the fact that consent is not enough. It is *never* enough. And the continued health and well-being of my partner is *always* my responsibility, no matter what she has ever said.

This is exactly what i was going to say. i think that the responsibility lies with the Dom after initial consent has been given. Before consent is given, things should be talked out first. she should know what she is getting into. If she consensts, they are free to do what they want.

 

[JMohegan]

i think that the responsibility lies with the Dom after initial consent has been given.

Not entirely.

She doesn't get a pass on personal responsibility, simply because the relationship has commenced.

 

[Vessira]

If anyone is interesting in seeing a portrayal of this, in a terribly disturbing movie, go rent the movie FEED at your local blockbuster. Should still be on the new release wall. It's crazy I tell you. Not this is a movie, not a documentary.

 

[FurryFury]

This is so not my kink, nor would I be willing to put on much weight for anyone. I am pretty fiercely independent about what I will and won't eat.

All I can say is NO THANKS.

Fury

 

[BiBunny]

Not entirely.

She doesn't get a pass on personal responsibility, simply because the relationship has commenced.

I agree. Anything else, to me, smacks entirely too much of the "big, strong Dom saves the poor, stupid little subbie from herself" mentality. I like to give myself a little more credit than that in the brains and impulse control departments.

More on-topic: I don't have too much to say about feeders because I admit to not knowing a whole lot about that kind of lifestyle. At first glance, though, I think I'd feel a bit sorry for the women trapped in that kind of relationship against their will. I dated a man for 2 years who was insanely paranoid that I'd cheat on him. These fears were entirely unfounded, but he was one of those people who thought that "bisexual" and "polyamorous" meant "promiscuous whore entirely incapable of a real relationship." If I wanted to sleep with someone else, I told him. But I digress.

Anyway, he was so paranoid that I was going to cheat that he encouraged me to gain weight. I mean, he never said, "Bunny, I want you to be fat," but he did it in the ways that wench described. He thought if I were fat enough, no one but him would want me, and the threat of me cheating would disappear. (The joke's on him that men still think I'm hot even though I'm overweight. *WEG*) He would sabotage my diets. My "good" food would mysteriously disappear. He was always hungry, and we always had to go to some sort of fast food place to get food because "neither of us feels like cooking, do we?" He'd encourage me to eat with him, even when I wasn't hungry, because he "didn't want to eat alone."

It got so obvious that even my mother said something to me about it. Unfortunately, it never clicked in my mind until she pointed it out to me. It was when I was trying yet another diet. (I have zero impulse control when it comes to food.) He'd agreed to do this diet with me and exercise with me to make it easier on me. (He wasn't a little boy by any stretch of the imagination. It wouldn't have hurt him to lose weight, either.) I got out of class early one day. I was in the throes of a migraine and feeling like I was starving to death. I came home, and there he sat on the couch with a bag of potato chips. I LOST MY MIND. I think I invented new obscenities in the midst of that tirade. He still claimed to not know what he'd done wrong. I left the house, drove around a little while, and called my mother. I told her what happened, and she pointed out that during my first year of college, I hadn't gained any weight, like you'd normally expect that a person would. (You know, the "freshman fifteen.") It was only in my sophomore year, after I started dating him, that I started gaining the weight. It wasn't a gradual weight gain, either. Between him insisting that I eat all the time and the Depo-Provera, I gained over 100 pounds in probably 6 months. Even though I knew what was going on, we were living together, and I felt like I had nowhere to go. Finally, I did leave and am better off for it.

Now, though, I have eating habits that are nigh impossible to break. I am still probably 100-125 pounds overweight. Fortunately for me, I don't *look* as big as I am because of the way I'm built. I just look like a tall girl with a bit of a tummy. That doesn't make me any healthier or feel any better about myself, though. I despair of losing weight because I can't change my thought patterns about food now. I've been away from this guy for nearly two years, but it's just so hard for me.

I wish back then I'd seen a thread like this to realize what was going on. I've tried three times since the beginning of the year to do better about eating and exercising. I have yet to make it past three days. I'm seriously considering talking to B. about it. He has no idea about all the things I've written up there. I would love to have his help with losing the weight. He likes me just the way I am, but he's always said that if I wanted to lose the weight, he'd do what he could to help me.

I know it sounds like I'm blaming someone else for my problems, but I'm not. Nobody held a gun to my head and forced me to eat all that food and get fat. Nobody's stopping me from losing the weight, either. It's just that I developed habits while dating that guy that are so hard to break. It hurts every time I look in the mirror, even though I like to pretend that I don't care. Like I said, I'm glad we're discussing this because if I'd found this thread back then, the lightbulb might've gone off in my head before it was 100 pounds too late. Maybe, though, my experiences will help someone else. Thanks for listening, everyone.

 

[the captians wench]

Bunny I would sujest you talk to B about helping you. If nothing else the support helps more than anything.

But about 6 months ago I was feeling really stressed out all the time and fell back into some bad habits, snacking on nuggets and fries at work namely. I talked to Jounar about this and expressed that I wanted to break this habbit, but I just didn't seem to be able to. I'd go like 2 or three days and then I'd be back on the nuggets and fries again.

So together we came up with a punishment for me, and made it a rule, I am not allowd to eat fries and nuggets. (tho he does grant me special occations like when this certian fair comes into town) It took one time of me breaking that rule, being punished, and then dealing with his disapointment, which always hurts me worse than anything physical he could ever do, to break the habbit. I haven't picked up a nugget in 4 months. And other than when he's given me permission the fries either.

To some that may sound like the oposite end of the feeders, but it's not like he restricts my eating, or even discorages me. I asked him to help me stop eating crap and we found a way to do it.

I also fell into the emotional eating again. I was getting really dumped on at work and was extremely stressed out. I'd go thru a pint of ice cream a day and after gaining about an inch I realized it had to stop so again I saught Jounar's help.

He came up with what we call a stress pass. We practice orgasm control, but with this pass I can come as many times as I like with in 5 mins, after I give myself 50 swats to each tit and my ass (which I like too so it's all good). Lemme tell you, when you're really stressed out and haven't been allowd to cum in 2 weeks, that pass looks a whole lot better than that tub of ice cream.

 

[BiBunny]

Bunny I would sujest you talk to B about helping you. If nothing else the support helps more than anything.

But about 6 months ago I was feeling really stressed out all the time and fell back into some bad habits, snacking on nuggets and fries at work namely. I talked to Jounar about this and expressed that I wanted to break this habbit, but I just didn't seem to be able to. I'd go like 2 or three days and then I'd be back on the nuggets and fries again.

So together we came up with a punishment for me, and made it a rule, I am not allowd to eat fries and nuggets. (tho he does grant me special occations like when this certian fair comes into town) It took one time of me breaking that rule, being punished, and then dealing with his disapointment, which always hurts me worse than anything physical he could ever do, to break the habbit. I haven't picked up a nugget in 4 months. And other than when he's given me permission the fries either.

To some that may sound like the oposite end of the feeders, but it's not like he restricts my eating, or even discorages me. I asked him to help me stop eating crap and we found a way to do it.

I also fell into the emotional eating again. I was getting really dumped on at work and was extremely stressed out. I'd go thru a pint of ice cream a day and after gaining about an inch I realized it had to stop so again I saught Jounar's help.

He came up with what we call a stress pass. We practice orgasm control, but with this pass I can come as many times as I like with in 5 mins, after I give myself 50 swats to each tit and my ass (which I like too so it's all good). Lemme tell you, when you're really stressed out and haven't been allowd to cum in 2 weeks, that pass looks a whole lot better than that tub of ice cream.

Wench, I like this idea. I'm cornering him with it next time I talk to him.

 

[the captians wench]

Wench, I like this idea. I'm cornering him with it next time I talk to him.

*giggles* Glad to help.

Just remember if you go the punishment rought, the punishment needs to be something you don't particularly enjoy or it won't work.

 

[BiBunny]

*giggles* Glad to help.

Just remember if you go the punishment rought, the punishment needs to be something you don't particularly enjoy or it won't work.

Exactly. I'm one of those people with whom "threat of punishment" will usually work.

Is it possible to be both painslut and weenie at the same time?

 

[the captians wench]

Exactly. I'm one of those people with whom "threat of punishment" will usually work.

Is it possible to be both painslut and weenie at the same time?

Yes! There are things that scare the shit out of me....the ones that are to a lesser degree usually end up being my punishments.

 

[graceanne]

I agree in part, but not wholly. I think in situations where consent has been obtained through various methods which have nothing to do with free will and desire as in playing on weaknesses, emotional blackmail, coercion, intimidation, fear etc., it is abuse. I think where it is consent given freely by someone who desires the type relationship offered independent of any other influencing factor and after much thought processing, understanding, informative research, and preferrably someone mature enough to make that type of life changing decision, I don't see it as abuse.

I have to ask. Who gets to decide how consent was obtained? I mean to an outsider the fact that I'm a masochist is a result of a weakness in my psyche, caused by child abuse. Heck, it might be, but that doesn't mean their was no consent, or that what we do during sex is abuse. If you asked those women at that time whether they were being abused they'd have probably said no, that so-and-so loves them, etc, etc. It's not 'till they're out of the relationship, and looking back, that they realize what was going on was a form of abuse.

I'm not looking to attack, or anything. Mostly I'm playing devils advocate.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have to ask. Who gets to decide how consent was obtained? I mean to an outsider the fact that I'm a masochist is a result of a weakness in my psyche, caused by child abuse. Heck, it might be, but that doesn't mean their was no consent, or that what we do during sex is abuse. If you asked those women at that time whether they were being abused they'd have probably said no, that so-and-so loves them, etc, etc. It's not 'till they're out of the relationship, and looking back, that they realize what was going on was a form of abuse.

I'm not looking to attack, or anything. Mostly I'm playing devils advocate.

I didn't say I was deciding and then advocating acting on my decision it was abuse as I think JM thought, nor was I speaking for these women as a whole...most of them indicated it well enough for themselves both while in and out of the relationships. They also went into detail about how they had never had a boyfriend, had been the butt of jokes most of their life, felt they were worthless, how they tried not to think about how damaging it was to their health because he was happy and would only stay while they gained weight, would do anything (without going the hard mile to diet) to get and keep a man in their life...which they did. As a trained abuse counsellor with heaps of hands on experience as well as personal family experience of abuse, it is pretty clear in such circumstances that they are not doing it because they feel beautiful, healthy, or want to be that size, but because they are vulnerable to the men in their lives.

One woman was describing how she had to sit up with help, then rest due to lack of breath for quite awhile, then swing her legs over the side of the bed, rest again, then try to stand, by which time she was totally fucked and felt bad about her size and health. Most of the men made sure they got to a size where functioning in the community and being independent was impossible, instead they were confined to bed and totally reliant on him for everything, even their food so had no choice....some had concerned friends and family who they wanted to see, but because they were speaking out about how the woman was being abused, the man found ways to prevent them seeing much or any of these people....that is isolation which is a common form of domestic abuse. One woman had to share her man with several others and when asked how it made her feel, she admitted it hurt and she didn't like it, but she didn't want to be alone...that is not free will consent either to me. Another one said how she had begged to be given healthy food, only to be fed nothing but food covered in sugar and cream with no way to get out of bed and get the food she wanted...that also was not someone in a relationship and happy about the way she was or why she was in it, nor was it consent if she was begging for him to stop bringing unhealthy food to her with the only alternative to eating it being starvation. Also if you ask women who have been abused whether they consented to the abuse of their own free will once they are free of it and on their feet, most will tell you they did not have a choice under the circumstances and did not want the abuse or consent to it, it just happened.

Catalina

 

[Byakuya]

geeze.. I know I'm knew to the whole scene, but I can tell this is a pretty messed up concept.. I mean a person is basically being killed.. it seems like the only difference between "feeding" and murder is that it's being dragged out over a longer period of time..

 

[graceanne]

I didn't say I was deciding and then advocating acting on my decision it was abuse as I think JM thought, nor was I speaking for these women as a whole...most of them indicated it well enough for themselves both while in and out of the relationships. They also went into detail about how they had never had a boyfriend, had been the butt of jokes most of their life, felt they were worthless, how they tried not to think about how damaging it was to their health because he was happy and would only stay while they gained weight, would do anything (without going the hard mile to diet) to get and keep a man in their life...which they did. As a trained abuse counsellor with heaps of hands on experience as well as personal family experience of abuse, it is pretty clear in such circumstances that they are not doing it because they feel beautiful, healthy, or want to be that size, but because they are vulnerable to the men in their lives.

One woman was describing how she had to sit up with help, then rest due to lack of breath for quite awhile, then swing her legs over the side of the bed, rest again, then try to stand, by which time she was totally fucked and felt bad about her size and health. Most of the men made sure they got to a size where functioning in the community and being independent was impossible, instead they were confined to bed and totally reliant on him for everything, even their food so had no choice....some had concerned friends and family who they wanted to see, but because they were speaking out about how the woman was being abused, the man found ways to prevent them seeing much or any of these people....that is isolation which is a common form of domestic abuse. One woman had to share her man with several others and when asked how it made her feel, she admitted it hurt and she didn't like it, but she didn't want to be alone...that is not free will consent either to me. Another one said how she had begged to be given healthy food, only to be fed nothing but food covered in sugar and cream with no way to get out of bed and get the food she wanted...that also was not someone in a relationship and happy about the way she was or why she was in it, nor was it consent if she was begging for him to stop bringing unhealthy food to her with the only alternative to eating it being starvation. Also if you ask women who have been abused whether they consented to the abuse of their own free will once they are free of it and on their feet, most will tell you they did not have a choice under the circumstances and did not want the abuse or consent to it, it just happened.

Catalina

True enough.

 

[eastern sun]

Masters enabling their slave's addiction

I'm curious . . . If a Master encourages his slave in an addictive behavior, because he likes the outcome, is he acting irresponsibly? or is he in fact free to do with his property what he wishes?

 

[myinnerslut]

Bunny I would sujest you talk to B about helping you. If nothing else the support helps more than anything.

But about 6 months ago I was feeling really stressed out all the time and fell back into some bad habits, snacking on nuggets and fries at work namely. I talked to Jounar about this and expressed that I wanted to break this habbit, but I just didn't seem to be able to. I'd go like 2 or three days and then I'd be back on the nuggets and fries again.

So together we came up with a punishment for me, and made it a rule, I am not allowd to eat fries and nuggets. (tho he does grant me special occations like when this certian fair comes into town) It took one time of me breaking that rule, being punished, and then dealing with his disapointment, which always hurts me worse than anything physical he could ever do, to break the habbit. I haven't picked up a nugget in 4 months. And other than when he's given me permission the fries either.

To some that may sound like the oposite end of the feeders, but it's not like he restricts my eating, or even discorages me. I asked him to help me stop eating crap and we found a way to do it.

I also fell into the emotional eating again. I was getting really dumped on at work and was extremely stressed out. I'd go thru a pint of ice cream a day and after gaining about an inch I realized it had to stop so again I saught Jounar's help.

He came up with what we call a stress pass. We practice orgasm control, but with this pass I can come as many times as I like with in 5 mins, after I give myself 50 swats to each tit and my ass (which I like too so it's all good). Lemme tell you, when you're really stressed out and haven't been allowd to cum in 2 weeks, that pass looks a whole lot better than that tub of ice cream.

i would also encourage talking to B about it. im not really sure my input belongs on this particular thread, but since we are currently talking about enlisting aid to break bad food habbits, im going to tell my part. i am not overwieght, nor am i underwieght. i do however have a very colorful history of eating disorders, mainly, but not exclusivly, bulimia. i would try to stay healthy, but my ocd would get ahold of me, and i would start over analysising every food choice in quiet a rediculus manner that would leave me thouroughly overwhelmed. after trying to deal with my food issues on my own for a few months, and nearly relapsing into bulimia several times, i asked Sir for help. he immediatly said he would assist me in staying healthy and help me fight my eating disorder. he set rules regarding my eating disorder (which i wont get into here) and he set two rules that i follow on a daily basis dealing with food in general (absolutly no soda, and more fruits and vegtables, at least one with lunch and dinner). Sir helped me make things managable, wheras before they often overwhelmed me to tears. if you can enlist the help or support of anyone, especially your PYL, i would strongly encourage it.

 

[ammre]

So, ok, I haven't read anything. I got lazy. Sorry if i'm repeating anything, opening new wounds, or jsut not making sence in general.

So, i don't think that this i bad, and i do.
It's like a masochist, It's ok in moderation.
Yay, feed a girl with the thought of touching her chub whoo!
Yay, beat a girl with the thought of causing her pain!
Boo, feeing a girl to the point where she becomes immobile and suffers health wise
Boo, beating a girl until she becomes unconscious, in shock, or dies.

Yanno, everything in bdsm comes with moderation, and the line between fantasy and reality. It's dangerious when peole step over some of those lines in any areas of the kink. (Ok so i've never heard of a death due to tickle torture...)

also, something that cuaght my eye as i was skimming/scrolling was that someone commented "well she didn't become 800lbs overnight"
one could also say:
"Well she didn't start to get beaten by her husband overnight"
"Well he allowed the molestation to go on for longer then jsut a night"
"patty hearst didn't decide to rob a bank overnight"
I mean heck, there's lots of cases where there's truely something else iphychologically in the works. You can know something is not good for you, but due to some glitch in your brain you go back. Not everyone has the strength, support, understanding to pull away, and it only gets tougher and tougher.

Now overall, i mean if it's a fetish for some and they've figured out how to live their lives including this fetish and it's not hurtinganyone really, then power to them.
I find this absolutelly repulsive. I have issues with being touched because in my mind my fat is akin to leprosy and why the heck would someone want to touch that... It totally squiks me out. I get pissed of when i can't find a partner becasue they all want thin people, when the thought of someone who wants a BBW makes me wonder what's wrong with them... I mean truely it's the western puritanical notion of body type... but heck, apparently i've mentally fallin into that sinkhole of a paradigm.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I disagree strongly with this statement.

If I hear it from an inexperienced person, I assume they are quite naive, or pretending to be so.

If I hear it from an experienced person, especially on the Top side, I take it as a truly mammoth red flag.

Abuse is not defined by the action itself, and it is not defined by the absence of consent. Abuse is defined by the effect of the action on the subject at hand.

Behavior that causes material and sustained deterioration in the subject's mental and physical health and happiness is abuse.

Can people consent to being abused? Of course they can, and unfortunately they do. All the time.

I agree fully with this view. I've studied abuse in all forms and worked with abused women and children for many years on a volunteer basis. Abuse typically does not start out full fledged from the beginning of a relationship. It is something that often gets more defined as the relationship moves forward in a slow and cyclical way. As time moves forward, often the abused has been mentally conditioned to accept the treatment as normal or deserved. I believe there is a huge difference between a consentual BDSM or D/s relationship and abuse. While the abused may 'consent' to the treatment because they are accepting of it, it is not consent in the way that we often define consent. It is consent that has been coerced over time in a conditioned sort of way. And can be much more damaging across the board than a relationship that starts at the onset as one of abuse.

What you have described from the feeder mindset seems to me to be some form of abuse. We all take risks when we enter into any kind of BDSM relationship. However, intentionally isolating someone is abuse. Intentionally shortening someone's life is abuse. I don't believe that the feeders as described here fall under the BDSM umbrella. Their actions stem from their own insecurities, and they are translated into what many consider an extreme form of BDSM. This is one of the things that gives the community such a bad name in the public. In my mind, this type of aberrant behavior is no different than the BDSM couple who kidnapped and caged a young woman. There is a difference between a consentual relationship and one in which the more powerful feeds on the insecurities of another in order to gain control.