Fear

[HisSexyPet]

Thanks, K. and Hom. Oddly enough, I don't feel fear much myself in doing crazy things. I've ridden lots of horses no one else would touch because they were nuts and dangerous, and I love racing cars. My fear response only kicks in around people, particularly ones I care about. It's stupid.

It isn't stupid.
Everyone has their fears and none of them are stupid. They are legit to the one that has them.

 

[MisterSir]

Legitimate and stupid aren't the same thing, though. For instance, I'm scared of showing my writing to people and am terrified of dogs, especially the smaller ones - both fears are legitimate, but they're still pretty stupid.

 

[Keroin]

This I can see. My dad spent 24 years in the army, much of it Airborne. He jumped out of perfectly good airplanes on static lines, yes, but often under conditions that civilian skydivers would wet themselves over. He's theoretically* qualified to talk about fear and overcoming it all day. And then there were those incidents where people were shooting real bullets, etc.

But, much like my dad's experiences, yours are not all that common. Hell, yours are even less common. So I don't think it is a matter of purely R/L BDSM experience alone, so much as it is establishing one's credentials. Should someone like yourself present your own adrenalin rocket rides as background, or a combat vet, or some other form of pure fear trip, I would think that could be seen as proper credentials to discuss fear management.

Personally, I've realised that I'm not that good at discussing it, or giving advice on it. My own 'advice' is usually just feel-good confidence building stuff, not actual technique. Given my own muted reactions to fear, I have not built the coping mechanisms, and thus can't intelligently discuss them. When I decide that I want to walk the railing of a bridge a few hundred yards off the ground, I determine if I am capable or not, and, assuming I am, I just hop up there. Fear's generally not much of a part of the mental discussion.



* - I say theoretically here because my father is the same way I am. I don't honestly think he felt any fear over his jumps. Most guys get kicked out the door on their first jumps at minimum. Pop hopped right out.

Thanks, K. and Hom. Oddly enough, I don't feel fear much myself in doing crazy things. I've ridden lots of horses no one else would touch because they were nuts and dangerous, and I love racing cars. My fear response only kicks in around people, particularly ones I care about. It's stupid.

You see, I felt fear every time I did a big gag. I'm glad I did, fear has an important role to play in survival situations. Fear heightens my senses and makes me more cognizant of my actions and surroundings, it also gives me that much-needed boost of adrenalin. No stunt person will tell you they feel fear but they all do. Honestly, I wouldn't want to work with someone who didn't. In fact, there's kind of a wisdom among my peers that when you stop being afraid of the big stuff, that's when you should think about quitting because that's when you're going to miss a detail and someone is going to get hurt.

But I think one needn't have to jump off buildings or out of airplanes to discuss the subject. Fear is subjective. For example, BB says people trigger her fear response, which is something that I cannot relate to whatsoever. For some people, just stepping outside their home is an excruciatingly frightening task. Again, something I consider an everyday activity. This does not make their opinions and perceptions of fear any less valid than mine.

Now if they were to try to advise me on what to do if I were preparing for my first fire gag? Well, I'd definitely take their lack of practical experience into consideration but I'm also a big girl, capable of making her own decisions, and I'm certainly not going to unnecessarily endanger myself because some stranger on the internet told me I should.

BB, I thought of another question this morning in regards to your situation. What's the rush? How long have you been with these people and how long do you foresee yourself being with them? Is it necessary to jump off the cliff right away? What's the worst case scenario if you were to wait a month? Six months? A year?

Added: Hom, your dad sounds like a heck of a guy! I'd love to meet him.

 

[BiBunny]

You see, I felt fear every time I did a big gag. I'm glad I did, fear has an important role to play in survival situations. Fear heightens my senses and makes me more cognizant of my actions and surroundings, it also gives me that much-needed boost of adrenalin. No stunt person will tell you they feel fear but they all do. Honestly, I wouldn't want to work with someone who didn't. In fact, there's kind of a wisdom among my peers that when you stop being afraid of the big stuff, that's when you should think about quitting because that's when you're going to miss a detail and someone is going to get hurt.

But I think one needn't have to jump off buildings or out of airplanes to discuss the subject. Fear is subjective. For example, BB says people trigger her fear response, which is something that I cannot relate to whatsoever. For some people, just stepping outside their home is an excruciatingly frightening task. Again, something I consider an everyday activity. This does not make their opinions and perceptions of fear any less valid than mine.

Now if they were to try to advise me on what to do if I were preparing for my first fire gag? Well, I'd definitely take their lack of practical experience into consideration but I'm also a big girl, capable of making her own decisions, and I'm certainly not going to unnecessarily endanger myself because some stranger on the internet told me I should.

BB, I thought of another question this morning in regards to your situation. What's the rush? How long have you been with these people and how long do you foresee yourself being with them? Is it necessary to jump off the cliff right away? What's the worst case scenario if you were to wait a month? Six months? A year?

Added: Hom, your dad sounds like a heck of a guy! I'd love to meet him.

I guess there's no real rush, but I just feel...odd. I'm an all or nothing at all person, and having one foot in and one out is an awkward feeling for me.

I've been with him off and on for the better portion of 3 1/2 years. With them as a couple, about six months. Obviously, I can't predict the future, but I see this being long-term. I think we've already been through the roughest parts.

I don't think anything terrible would happen if I waited. It's not them who's pushing me; it's me. In the last month, the trust bond has solidified, and it's made me crave this.

Meh, I'm not articulating well. I've had 12 hours of sleep in the last 3 days. I should stop now!

 

[Keroin]

I guess there's no real rush, but I just feel...odd. I'm an all or nothing at all person, and having one foot in and one out is an awkward feeling for me.

I've been with him off and on for the better portion of 3 1/2 years. With them as a couple, about six months. Obviously, I can't predict the future, but I see this being long-term. I think we've already been through the roughest parts.

I don't think anything terrible would happen if I waited. It's not them who's pushing me; it's me. In the last month, the trust bond has solidified, and it's made me crave this.

Meh, I'm not articulating well. I've had 12 hours of sleep in the last 3 days. I should stop now!

I understand that you are the one pushing for this. I'm going to be very honest, there is a frantic quality to your various explanations of what you want and why you want it that I find unsettling. That is why I remarked on perhaps considering taking things a bit slower. The decision is ultimately between you and yours but sometimes a little objectivity can be helpful.

I do best with anecdotes, so here goes...

At the beginning of my career, there was SO much I wanted to do but time, money and opportunity didn't allow for. One of the items on my wish list was an air ram, (kind of a pneumatic catapult). Man oh man oh man did I want to do an air ram! Then about three years in, I got a call for a gag involving a ram, I said yes without hesitation. The coordinator then said, "You've done one before, right?" I answered honestly that I had not. I then went on to list all the reasons I was ready for it, why I knew I could handle it, how enthusiastic I was about it, etc.

He said no.

About six months later I had my first opportunity to train on a ram, starting very slowly and with lots of experienced trainers. Holy fuck. Wow. Am I ever glad I didn't get that gag, what a disaster that would have been. Likely, it would have seriously injured me and destroyed my credibility. It crushed me at the time that he wouldn't let me do wanted I felt I needed to do but that coordinator saved my hide.

It was six years before I ever got to do a ram on set. It is a serious gag and not to be taken lightly. I am forever thankful that I waited until I was both physically and psychologically ready for it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I could have blown a successful and rewarding career by rushing into something I was not ready for. If you're in something for the long haul, take your time. Don't force things.

Also, my guess is that your people would gain a hell of a lot of respect for you if you were to say, "This is something I really want, and I feel committed enough to you that I really want it to happen with you, but I'd like to wait until I am sure that I will be able to cope with the potential consequences." If the level of play is as serious as you have intimated, I'm sure they'd be happy to wait.

 

[Homburg]

You see, I felt fear every time I did a big gag. I'm glad I did, fear has an important role to play in survival situations. Fear heightens my senses and makes me more cognizant of my actions and surroundings, it also gives me that much-needed boost of adrenalin. No stunt person will tell you they feel fear but they all do.

Eh, don't get me wrong. I feel fear. I just don't have the "normal" reaction to it. I think it is an adrenal issue. While I get the hyper-alert sensation, I don't move faster, get stronger, etc, and don't have the heart-pounding, sweats, etc reaction either. After it's all done and things are calm, wow, then I get shakes, but before and during, I'm cool.

My buddy AP is the opposite. His adrenals fire off at the drop of a hat, making him bloody aggressive. As a younger man, he had much less control over it, and got into some unpleasant scrapes as a result. I'm pretty happy that mine is a more controlled adrenal funkiness.

Admittedly, it does suck when I am trying to psyche myself up for a big lift, and I nothing major happens. The adrenals just shrug and keep on doing whatever they normally do no matter how hard I try to psyche up. AP? Yeah, the psyche up is hugely important to him. We can both tell when his head isn't in it because his lifts go to shit.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to work with someone who didn't. In fact, there's kind of a wisdom among my peers that when you stop being afraid of the big stuff, that's when you should think about quitting because that's when you're going to miss a detail and someone is going to get hurt.

I feel this way about edgeplay. The day I no longer have that trill of fear in the back of my head is the day I stop doing whatever it is I'm doing.

Added: Hom, your dad sounds like a heck of a guy! I'd love to meet him.

My dad is awesome. Growing up military, lots of dads are cool. They have cool jobs after all, and some of them are cooler than others. My dad was usually recognised by the rest of the kids I palled around with as the coolest dad. He is certainly my hero, and the only man around that will be bigger than me and badder than me, no matter what reality, age, and mortality might say.

And, yeah, you'd probably dig him. Just about everybody does. He's got all the charisma, with WAY less surliness.

 

[nh23]

I've been very passionate in parts of this thread Bunny. Part of the reasoning for that is that you and I are a lot alike. I see myself in you a lot. There is a part of me that needs these things just like you do. My need is more for emotional pain and breaking than physical. I know I can take the physical. Bruises heal very easily. Emotional issues not so much.

We're emotional masochists..and as unhealthy as it may be..we have a lot of self loathing. It's hard for us to let someone love us..but if we're broken down to our very worst..and they love us like that..well then we can allow them to.

We also show our love and devotion in alternative ways. It's not easy for me to let go, trust and love someone. When I do, I have a very hard time expressing it. For us the oasis song sums it up "The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care" We need things like what you're wanting not only to feel loved, but to show love.

A big part of my emotional maso comes from things in my past. Always feeling tainted, and dirty, and never ever good enough. Two of the men I loved in the past constantly told me how perfect I was, but you know what, I wasn't. Both relationships ended. I need Master to see me at my very worst. To break me down emotionally into nothing, and to see that he loves me like that.

I don't know if any of this helps. I'm still on the journey myself. Still working on a lot of things. But I hope.

 

[BiBunny]

I've been very passionate in parts of this thread Bunny. Part of the reasoning for that is that you and I are a lot alike. I see myself in you a lot. There is a part of me that needs these things just like you do. My need is more for emotional pain and breaking than physical. I know I can take the physical. Bruises heal very easily. Emotional issues not so much.

We're emotional masochists..and as unhealthy as it may be..we have a lot of self loathing. It's hard for us to let someone love us..but if we're broken down to our very worst..and they love us like that..well then we can allow them to.

We also show our love and devotion in alternative ways. It's not easy for me to let go, trust and love someone. When I do, I have a very hard time expressing it. For us the oasis song sums it up "The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care" We need things like what you're wanting not only to feel loved, but to show love.

A big part of my emotional maso comes from things in my past. Always feeling tainted, and dirty, and never ever good enough. Two of the men I loved in the past constantly told me how perfect I was, but you know what, I wasn't. Both relationships ended. I need Master to see me at my very worst. To break me down emotionally into nothing, and to see that he loves me like that.

I don't know if any of this helps. I'm still on the journey myself. Still working on a lot of things. But I hope.

That's the best summary I've ever heard of what I'm feeling.

I need the physical pain. I really do. But I need more, even, than humiliation and having my body marked and battered. Like you said, being pushed past the point of breaking, of having any control, is appealing.

I've done things like this before with him. It's not a first time thing. It's just...I need it more than ever right now. I know I come off as the resident sarcastic bitch most of them time, but there's a very dark and vulnerable place inside me that I hardly ever let people see. Master knows how to bare it because he has a similar one, and I think Mistress is finally coming to understand that about me.

I dunno. I'm kinda fucked up. Maybe I should just let this thread die a natural death.

 

[Keroin]

That's the best summary I've ever heard of what I'm feeling.

I need the physical pain. I really do. But I need more, even, than humiliation and having my body marked and battered. Like you said, being pushed past the point of breaking, of having any control, is appealing.

I've done things like this before with him. It's not a first time thing. It's just...I need it more than ever right now. I know I come off as the resident sarcastic bitch most of them time, but there's a very dark and vulnerable place inside me that I hardly ever let people see. Master knows how to bare it because he has a similar one, and I think Mistress is finally coming to understand that about me.

I dunno. I'm kinda fucked up. Maybe I should just let this thread die a natural death.

Just for the record, I was well aware this is not a first time thing for you. You made it clear that you've done similar things before. That wasn't the point of my anecdote.

Anyway, it's clear that this is something far too personal for you for me to comment on. I wish you the best of luck with your future explorations.

 

[nh23]

Just for the record, I was well aware this is not a first time thing for you. You made it clear that you've done similar things before. That wasn't the point of my anecdote.

Anyway, it's clear that this is something far too personal for you for me to comment on. I wish you the best of luck with your future explorations.

I can't speak for Bunny but I found some of your post helpful. I was chatting with Bunny last night about some of this. Master is way more likely to push emotional boundaries with me than anything. Several times he has pushed on things and I just couldn't handle it. We would start and he would have to stop, and then he would try again, and again. Until eventually I could do it. Once it was done I was so much happier. It took several tries and patience for some things.

To me that's kind of what your post was saying.

 

[Homburg]

Master is way more likely to push emotional boundaries with me than anything. Several times he has pushed on things and I just couldn't handle it. We would start and he would have to stop, and then he would try again, and again. Until eventually I could do it. Once it was done I was so much happier. It took several tries and patience for some things.

The middle part is what sucks in this. This is the part where I feel like a shitbag for doing what I'm doing, and question my own competence.

 

[nh23]

The middle part is what sucks in this. This is the part where I feel like a shitbag for doing what I'm doing, and question my own competence.

That's been an issue for him too at times. He'll say "pet, am I a monster?" It does not mean a lack of competence. It does not mean he's a monster. I want it as much as he does. We're better for it in the end. Closer, more trust.

 

[myinnerslut]

We're emotional masochists..and as unhealthy as it may be..we have a lot of self loathing. It's hard for us to let someone love us..but if we're broken down to our very worst..and they love us like that..well then we can allow them to.

yesterday we did dome unplanned pushing of my emotional boundaries. i am terrified of falling. serious near phobia fear of falling. not of heights, but of the act itself. it stems from... well, im not entirely sure, but have a good idea that it stems from some trauma when i was very small. doesnt help that i fell off the swings in first grade and broke my arm, but i digress.

i had a tough time with what was happening. i was shaking and crying, and couldnt get my head back in the right spot. we walked out to the local chineese place for diner and still couldnt get my head in the right spot. throughout dinner, i was still having trouble.

i went up to bed and asked Master to come with me. he asked what was going on, and all of the bad memories i was reliving poured out. then he said something that just snapped through my fog. "hurting yourself is not your place." it may be cliche, but it works. i cut through all of the residual pain i was feeling, had a nice long cry in his arms, and curled up under his chest while he sang to me.

and i felt better.

now i try to remember that. it isnt my place to hurt myself, be it physically or emotionally.

 

[nh23]

yesterday we did dome unplanned pushing of my emotional boundaries. i am terrified of falling. serious near phobia fear of falling. not of heights, but of the act itself. it stems from... well, im not entirely sure, but have a good idea that it stems from some trauma when i was very small. doesnt help that i fell off the swings in first grade and broke my arm, but i digress.

i had a tough time with what was happening. i was shaking and crying, and couldnt get my head back in the right spot. we walked out to the local chineese place for diner and still couldnt get my head in the right spot. throughout dinner, i was still having trouble.

i went up to bed and asked Master to come with me. he asked what was going on, and all of the bad memories i was reliving poured out. then he said something that just snapped through my fog. "hurting yourself is not your place." it may be cliche, but it works. i cut through all of the residual pain i was feeling, had a nice long cry in his arms, and curled up under his chest while he sang to me.

and i felt better.

now i try to remember that. it isnt my place to hurt myself, be it physically or emotionally.

When Master and I first got together this part of me really bothered him. The physical he stopped right away. I'm not allowed to cut anymore. The emotional..well he decided at first that I needed to work on that part of me.

The more he was around me, the more he saw that it's kind of a self soothing thing to me. He told me once that I get off on it, and I do, but not sexually. Emotionally. I have no idea how to explain that to make any sense. So for now he tolerates it to a point.

 

[Keroin]

Eh, don't get me wrong. I feel fear. I just don't have the "normal" reaction to it. I think it is an adrenal issue. While I get the hyper-alert sensation, I don't move faster, get stronger, etc, and don't have the heart-pounding, sweats, etc reaction either. After it's all done and things are calm, wow, then I get shakes, but before and during, I'm cool.

My buddy AP is the opposite. His adrenals fire off at the drop of a hat, making him bloody aggressive. As a younger man, he had much less control over it, and got into some unpleasant scrapes as a result. I'm pretty happy that mine is a more controlled adrenal funkiness.

Admittedly, it does suck when I am trying to psyche myself up for a big lift, and I nothing major happens. The adrenals just shrug and keep on doing whatever they normally do no matter how hard I try to psyche up. AP? Yeah, the psyche up is hugely important to him. We can both tell when his head isn't in it because his lifts go to shit.

That kind of sucks about your lack of adrenal response - I love that burst of strength they give me - but I'm sure the degree of control makes up for it. I'd say I have well-controlled fear responses. I get the heart pumping but I'm really able to focus my energy constructively. And of course, the more exposure to fear the more it takes to provoke the response. I think that's why hardcore pain play doesn't excite me much.

Pain is enjoyable but mind fucks are far more intriguing for me.

To me, it's not about whether or not a person has fear but how they manage it.

I feel this way about edgeplay. The day I no longer have that trill of fear in the back of my head is the day I stop doing whatever it is I'm doing.

Smart man.

My dad is awesome. Growing up military, lots of dads are cool. They have cool jobs after all, and some of them are cooler than others. My dad was usually recognised by the rest of the kids I palled around with as the coolest dad. He is certainly my hero, and the only man around that will be bigger than me and badder than me, no matter what reality, age, and mortality might say.

And, yeah, you'd probably dig him. Just about everybody does. He's got all the charisma, with WAY less surliness.

LOL. It's funny, I'm a peace-loving, anti-war type, (as I'm sure you've gleaned by now), but I have several ex-military people within my circle of friends and I love their stories. My friend FP flew B29's over Germany in WWII. He said most guys didn't make it through one tour; he flew three.

 

[Homburg]

That kind of sucks about your lack of adrenal response - I love that burst of strength they give me - but I'm sure the degree of control makes up for it. I'd say I have well-controlled fear responses. I get the heart pumping but I'm really able to focus my energy constructively. And of course, the more exposure to fear the more it takes to provoke the response. I think that's why hardcore pain play doesn't excite me much.

It's all very mental with me, as I don't get most of the physical side most people do. Really, really intense lifting gets close. Doing 1-rep maximal lifting beyond my expected threshold. Trail-riding good and hard fires most people up, but the only time I got that adrenal burst was the trip where I broke my arm on a faceplant into a fallen tree. I got an adrenaline kick from that.

I think my adrenal disconnect is a serious part of why I don't really get a lot of different activities. I can enjoy the sensations, but I just don't get that high. It's genetic, gotta be.

LOL. It's funny, I'm a peace-loving, anti-war type, (as I'm sure you've gleaned by now), but I have several ex-military people within my circle of friends and I love their stories. My friend FP flew B29's over Germany in WWII. He said most guys didn't make it through one tour; he flew three.

There is something to be said about military stories, no? The shared experience forms a culture that more or less demands stories. The best part is that those stories are usually humorous, as they are a coping mechanism to deal with untenable situations, and even less tenable memories.

I asked my friend Dick about the Viet Nam stories he told, and how they were always funny. He said that he only wanted to keep the funny ones. He wished he'd left the rest in Nam. (Dick was firmly anti-war. "War is shit, man!" was a notable quote of his. Yet he was still the proudest man on the planet when his son earned his commission.)

 

[intothewoods]

I'm still trying to figure out if the need to be pushed to your scary edges in a relationship - the emotional masochist drive - is the same as garden variety thrill seeking. I want to say no, but then I'm not sure. I guess it depends. I just don't see it as seeking an endorphin rush. Though maybe at some level that's part of it if you know you will get the endorphins with the pain (if pain is what you are looking for).

 

[nh23]

I'm still trying to figure out if the need to be pushed to your scary edges in a relationship - the emotional masochist drive - is the same as garden variety thrill seeking. I want to say no, but then I'm not sure. I guess it depends. I just don't see it as seeking an endorphin rush. Though maybe at some level that's part of it if you know you will get the endorphins with the pain (if pain is what you are looking for).

No. Not for me anyway.

 

[BiBunny]

For the record, it happened today. Finally.

I feel nothing like I thought I would feel at all. I thought there'd be some kind of serious emotional upheaval, a major internal psychodrama of "Have I done the right thing?"

But, no. Nothing like that. Just peace and a sense of rightness and love and belonging and all that BS. Oh, and I'm sleepy. Very sleepy.

I belong here. Maybe soon we can work on making it permanent.

 

[SimonBrooke]

The middle part is what sucks in this. This is the part where I feel like a shitbag for doing what I'm doing, and question my own competence.

Quoted for truth.

For the record, it happened today. Finally.

I feel nothing like I thought I would feel at all. I thought there'd be some kind of serious emotional upheaval, a major internal psychodrama of "Have I done the right thing?"

But, no. Nothing like that. Just peace and a sense of rightness and love and belonging and all that BS. Oh, and I'm sleepy. Very sleepy.

Good news. Take care of yourself.