Fear

[BiBunny]

I am nh23's Master MasDom, and I approve of these messages.

Paid for by the Bunny and Kitty foundation of America.

*Snort* You're a bad, bad man.

Which reminds me, I need to get Mistress on these boards. Not because she gives two shits about what I have to say here, but because she would find a lot of the stuff that goes on utterly and completely hilarious.

 

[MisterSir]

Suck a fat one.

*giggles*

Fine, fine. Stop fighting AND we'll turn the hose on you.

Better?

 

[nh23]

Fine, fine. Stop fighting AND we'll turn the hose on you.

Better?

Me? Fight with someone. I must say darling you have me confused.

 

[the captians wench]

As Adakgirl stated, her Master doesn't have a problem with her behavior he has a problem with nh3's responses.

Everyone here keeps beating Adakgirl up for the one sentence in her reply about "biting the bullet" yet no one has mentioned the condition she set it in "Thats where your trust has to come in..you don't have to trust yourself, just to trust that they will know when to stop. " Confronting her fears in the hands of her Owners who love her and cherish her and know her.

And before you jump all over me, yes, B and I have had "real life" experiences with each other. But who is to say that online experiences are not real?

I did not intend to "beat up" on Adakgirl. Her responce simply brought to mind something that erks me is all. If it works for her and her's jolly good. I just don't understand the mentality behind it and was hoping for a side track perhaps explaining it.

My online/distance/what have you relationship has been going strong for nearly 4 years now. When I first joined this forum he was where I experienced most of my, well new experiences from. But I did have friends I experienced things with as well. One thing I learned, things with Jounar were/are always much more intence and mentally stimulating than they are with any one else. Part of this is that they have to be in order to keep things interesting.

If things get a little rutien IRL you switch positions, change tools, yatta yatta yatta. With distance, you don't have that luxury so you have to come up with something else. And IRL will always have an element of surprize to it that you just can't have with distance.

Some things translate, some things don't. Just the facts. And trust me I can pull up many a post of mine that says "online is just as valid and intence as RL". That point is true, no one is saying that it's not, but they are different.

Even distance with Jounar and being face to face with him has proven to be completely different. You get the best and worst of a person when you spend 24/7 with them, online you're kind of on your best behavior.

 

[Homburg]

I like the Food Network. It is one of the very few things on TV that I will occasionally watch. Specifically, I dig The Next Food Network Star. One of the things the selection committee really likes is when a candidate can describe the food in a particularly appealing way.

They talk about the combination of flavours and smells and textures and really bring out the elements of the food in a way that makes you want to take a bite. Combine that with the great camera work and visually appealing dishes, and you really want that whatever-it-is that was just cooked.

But you still can't taste it.
And you can't smell it.
And you can't pick it up.
And you can't eat it.

Online D/s is like the Food Network.

 

[Bi_Kitty]

Paid for by the Bunny and Kitty foundation of America.

Ok...I almost fell out of my chair at that one

But you still can't taste it.
And you can't smell it.
And you can't pick it up.
And you can't eat it.

Online D/s is like the Food Network.

Very nicely said

 

[midwestyankee]

I like the Food Network. It is one of the very few things on TV that I will occasionally watch. Specifically, I dig The Next Food Network Star. One of the things the selection committee really likes is when a candidate can describe the food in a particularly appealing way.

They talk about the combination of flavours and smells and textures and really bring out the elements of the food in a way that makes you want to take a bite. Combine that with the great camera work and visually appealing dishes, and you really want that whatever-it-is that was just cooked.

But you still can't taste it.
And you can't smell it.
And you can't pick it up.
And you can't eat it.

Online D/s is like the Food Network.

Less filling.

 

[Adakgirl]

I copped a tude because she was not just giving her opinion that a person with no r/l experience should not be giving advice on real life situations.
But she was also implying other things about me and she was purposely putting herself above me and saying shit like living a fantasy wouldn't work for her..and other little remarks that were uncalled for. I did NOT rat her out to my Dominant I took the problem to him and asked him for his advice. Simple as that.

Lets go back and focus on what I said

[b]Then the only way to find out if that kind of pain will give you the satisfaction and relief you crave...is to bite the bullet and do it..ask them to push you past your normal pain threshold to see how far you can go. Then push you past that point to the point THEY think you can handle right now. Thats where your trust has to come in..you don't have to trust yourself, just to trust that they will know when to stop.

I don't care who you are or what experience you have or where the fuck your head is at or if you are a bitch or if you are not......that IS the only way for BiBunny to find out...is it not?

If you want to get technical then this is not even advice, it is reality and it is fact.
There is no other way she is going to get past the fear she described in her OP. And yeah it might very well be dangerous, so are a lot of things masochists submit too.

So you can go on and on if you like about my ignorance, immaturity, my inexperience, lack of professional medical training, because I could really give a fuck less too nh23.....that fact remains the same no matter how you choose to make it look.

 

[BiBunny]

In case anyone cares at this point, I talked to them. I think we're going to push ahead (cautiously) because the kinds of things I need and crave are emotional landmines.

I think part of the reason nh23 is being so adamant here is that she and I have actually discussed this problem way more in-depth than I've talked about here. She knows that Master and I like to play in the deep end and that creates apprehension within both of us.

This is more than hardcore play I'm talking about here, where everyone's grinning and happy when it's over. Yay, let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya and all that. What I need from them probably crosses the line into that whole "breaking the sub" thing that everyone warns against.

But I need this, and I trust them. I'm just not entirely sure any of us wants to deal with the immediate fallout, even if the eventual payoff will make it worth it. Perhaps if I'd clarified a little more at the beginning of the thread, it would've helped.

My bad.

 

[nh23]

I copped a tude because she was not just giving her opinion that a person with no r/l experience should not be giving advice on real life situations.
But she was also implying other things about me and she was purposely putting herself above me and saying shit like living a fantasy wouldn't work for her..and other little remarks that were uncalled for. I did NOT rat her out to my Dominant I took the problem to him and asked him for his advice. Simple as that.

How you take the things I say are your problem. Fact is online or fantasy relationships would not work for me. How in the hell is that an insult to you if you value what you have. Oh, and what other little remarks?

Whether you ratted me out to your Dominant or not..I don't give a fuck. Like I said what's he going to do? That's just ridiculous. I was threatened not to piss him off again though. I call bullshit when I see it. That was immature.

So you can go on and on if you like about my ignorance, immaturity, my inexperience, lack of professional medical training, because I could really give a fuck less too nh23.....that fact remains the same no matter how you choose to make it look.

I have a grand idea. Don't act ignorant, don't act immature, get some real life experience if that's what you want, and don't try to use medical facts to prove a point unless you research them, especially to someone who's spent a considerable amount of time working in psych. Then you won't have to worry about it.

 

[the captians wench]

In case anyone cares at this point, I talked to them. I think we're going to push ahead (cautiously) because the kinds of things I need and crave are emotional landmines.

I think part of the reason nh23 is being so adamant here is that she and I have actually discussed this problem way more in-depth than I've talked about here. She knows that Master and I like to play in the deep end and that creates apprehension within both of us.

This is more than hardcore play I'm talking about here, where everyone's grinning and happy when it's over. Yay, let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya and all that. What I need from them probably crosses the line into that whole "breaking the sub" thing that everyone warns against.

But I need this, and I trust them. I'm just not entirely sure any of us wants to deal with the immediate fallout, even if the eventual payoff will make it worth it. Perhaps if I'd clarified a little more at the beginning of the thread, it would've helped.

My bad.

This is one area the former playmate "master asshole" was very good at, and I loved it.

There are times when I need to be pushed beyond my limits. Beyond my giggling stage, and beyond where I end up giggling when we're finished. To be pushed past the place where my safeword would be on my lips, if I still had one. I need to end up in a place where I completely fall apart, I crash and become a pile of sobbing jelly.

I would become a whipping post. I did not exist, I was nothing, I was broken down to the very base of existance, let to fall and crumble, then cuddled and held until I was me again.

It's something I enjoy very much, but it is very draining and sometimes leaves me with a very bad case of sub drop. I'm starting to feel that craving again. Unfortunitly Jounar and I can't experience this to the extent I crave, it's just too difficult to come back from the level I crave.

Tread carefully, and comunicate. If you start to freak out, let them know. If you need some extra time, let them know. And if you are all rainbows and gumdrops at the end let them know that too. And be safe.

 

[BiBunny]

For the record, this is something like what I'm talking about, minus the motivation being punishment. And it's this feeling at the end that I crave.

I recognize that I'm struggling with accepting who and what I am. I also know that I'm a stubborn bitch, and I need to be whacked across the head with things to get the point across.

I want any and all of my illusions of choice and control stripped away. I am NOT going to take it well. I want to be shown that even my taking my next breath is dependent entirely on them and their whims. I need this to make my last precarious step into this life I've made for myself.

I want to go through hell, so that I'll never forget how much I truly depend on them. I think all the walls will be broken down once they come pull me out again, but that's if and only if they want to accept the hassle and responsibility that's going to come with it. I think being brought lower than I've ever been before is the only way I can accept the reality of my situation, so that I can thrive.

Is it fucked up? Probably, but so am I. What do you do?

ETA: Thank you, Wenchie. I was posting while you were, so I didn't see your post when I started.

 

[the captians wench]

ETA: Thank you, Wenchie. I was posting while you were, so I didn't see your post when I started.

No sweat sweets.

If my experience is anything to go on, I think you will end up with the reaction you seek. I don't think there is anything that makes me feel more owned than what I have discribed.

Amazing what a board of tacks and the command "sit" will do.

 

[BiBunny]

No sweat sweets.

If my experience is anything to go on, I think you will end up with the reaction you seek. I don't think there is anything that makes me feel more owned than what I have discribed.

Amazing what a board of tacks and the command "sit" will do.

Of course, this brings me right back to the premise of the thread. I need it, and I'm scared to death of it.

 

[the captians wench]

Of course, this brings me right back to the premise of the thread. I need it, and I'm scared to death of it.

*giggles* This frusterates Jounar to no end because I am the exact same way. I crave it. I love it. But when I'm told I'll get it (or as close as we can safely practice) I get very "well, maybe, um...yeah, okay...I guesss".

 

[Adakgirl]

I quote

-
Eleanor Roosevelt
“You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, ‘I have lived through this horror
. I can take the next thing that comes along.’ You must do the thing you think you cannot do.”

Sandra Graves- motivational speaker and author
Being afraid is normal, and if you are human just as I am then you feel fear from time to time. Feeling fear is not always a bad thing since fear can be healthy or unhealthy.
A healthy fear is an emotion that warns us about upcoming dangers, preventing us from making mistakes. A healthy fear protects us from physical and/or emotional injuries.
However, many times we promote unhealthy fear. Yes, we promote this by due to experiences we had in the past, or anxieties we feel in regards to the future. Unhealthy fear
takes control over our minds, making us feel paranoid about what could happen. Allowing fear to control us and keep us from experiencing the joy we deserve.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

In case anyone cares at this point, I talked to them. I think we're going to push ahead (cautiously) because the kinds of things I need and crave are emotional landmines.

<snip>

What I need from them probably crosses the line into that whole "breaking the sub" thing that everyone warns against.

Emotionally "broken" ?

Is the biggest fear of the 'what/where will I be afterwards?" variety?

That's what I'm taking from it, but I might be projecting a bit

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

For the record, this is something like what I'm talking about, minus the motivation being punishment. And it's this feeling at the end that I crave.

I recognize that I'm struggling with accepting who and what I am. I also know that I'm a stubborn bitch, and I need to be whacked across the head with things to get the point across.

I want any and all of my illusions of choice and control stripped away. I am NOT going to take it well. I want to be shown that even my taking my next breath is dependent entirely on them and their whims. I need this to make my last precarious step into this life I've made for myself.

I want to go through hell, so that I'll never forget how much I truly depend on them. I think all the walls will be broken down once they come pull me out again, but that's if and only if they want to accept the hassle and responsibility that's going to come with it. I think being brought lower than I've ever been before is the only way I can accept the reality of my situation, so that I can thrive.

Is it fucked up? Probably, but so am I. What do you do?

I should have read further.

I know exactly what you mean.

It's something I want, but I'm utterly fucking terrified of it as well.

Ah well. One day.

 

[Kajira Callista]

For the record, this is something like what I'm talking about, minus the motivation being punishment. And it's this feeling at the end that I crave.

I recognize that I'm struggling with accepting who and what I am. I also know that I'm a stubborn bitch, and I need to be whacked across the head with things to get the point across.

I want any and all of my illusions of choice and control stripped away. I am NOT going to take it well. I want to be shown that even my taking my next breath is dependent entirely on them and their whims. I need this to make my last precarious step into this life I've made for myself.

I want to go through hell, so that I'll never forget how much I truly depend on them. I think all the walls will be broken down once they come pull me out again, but that's if and only if they want to accept the hassle and responsibility that's going to come with it. I think being brought lower than I've ever been before is the only way I can accept the reality of my situation, so that I can thrive.

Is it fucked up? Probably, but so am I. What do you do?

ETA: Thank you, Wenchie. I was posting while you were, so I didn't see your post when I started.

"What nurishes me destroys me"
Be careful because that is more truth then you think. I wouldn't worry so much about if THEY want to do this and really start thinking about what your life would be if you didnt find your way out of the bottom.
Not judging. I know what I know from experience, and being stuck down there where no one can fish you out but you can end up a bad place if you don't believe YOU have the strength to do it.

 

[eastern sun]

For the record, this is something like what I'm talking about, minus the motivation being punishment. And it's this feeling at the end that I crave.

I recognize that I'm struggling with accepting who and what I am. I also know that I'm a stubborn bitch, and I need to be whacked across the head with things to get the point across.

I want any and all of my illusions of choice and control stripped away. I am NOT going to take it well. I want to be shown that even my taking my next breath is dependent entirely on them and their whims. I need this to make my last precarious step into this life I've made for myself.

I want to go through hell, so that I'll never forget how much I truly depend on them. I think all the walls will be broken down once they come pull me out again, but that's if and only if they want to accept the hassle and responsibility that's going to come with it. I think being brought lower than I've ever been before is the only way I can accept the reality of my situation, so that I can thrive.

Is it fucked up? Probably, but so am I. What do you do?

ETA: Thank you, Wenchie. I was posting while you were, so I didn't see your post when I started.

I think these types of experiences cement the M/s bond, and I totally understand your desire for them.

But I want to echo KC's caution, because in my experience the likelihood that he'll return as a savior is balanced by the likelihood that you'll have to pull yourself out again on your own.

Make sure you feel that you can handle any possible outcome, and take responsibility for the fact that you're taking yourself there. The other party will do whatever s/he does, and there's no guarantee that it will be exactly what you want or need.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I think these types of experiences cement the M/s bond, and I totally understand your desire for them.

But I want to echo KC's caution, because in my experience the likelihood that he'll return as a savior is balanced by the likelihood that you'll have to pull yourself out again on your own.

Make sure you feel that you can handle any possible outcome, and take responsibility for the fact that you're taking yourself there. The other party will do whatever s/he does, and there's no guarantee that it will be exactly what you want or need.

LOL I worded that poorly. I am glad some one understood it.

 

[BiBunny]

Understood, ladies. Thank you both.

 

[Keroin]

I think I'm qualified to talk about fear?

I like what eastern sun and KC had to say. Aftercare is a foreign concept to me. That's not to say my PYL is not thoughtful, quite the opposite, just that I've always owned my fear and the after effects.

I made a living doing things that scared the hell out of people, sometimes even me. On the job, showing anything less than complete confidence before, during and after a pants-wetting, terrifying gag was unacceptable. And imagine finally making it through the activity that's had your stomach in knots for weeks or months, coming out the other side, feeling all your body parts still intact, feeling like laughing and crying simultaneously, and hearing someone shout, "OK, reset, we're going again people!" You can't do that year in and year out if you are not able to manage your reactions to hyper-stimulating situations.

So, yeah, I'm all for biting the bullet and facing demons but I'm also for going it alone. If you aren't 100% confident that you can take care of yourself afterward, then reconsider.

This...

Attempts at just pushing me through it and forcing me into hardcore play in spite of my trepidation have been iffy. Sometimes, I respond well, and sometimes, it's a hot mess.

...is something I think you need to think seriously about, BB.

As for your OP, I shy away from my desires all the time, generally because I recognize that acting on them would be unhealthy. I'm lucky that I have a high degree of self discipline, I don't have an addictive personality and I'm very comfortable with who I am - i.e. I have nothing to prove to myself or anyone else. There's no shortage of creativity or madness within me but it has to be rationed, like ice cream.

And, I want to add, (not in defense of Adakgirl or speaking against anyone here, I am NOT taking sides), not even my scariest, most painful moments with Chuck have come close to some of my days at work for sheer holy-fuck-ed-ness, so having real life BDSM experience, though very valuable, does not disqualify those without it from being able to comment intelligently on fear and pain. Just my dos centavos, mis amigos.

 

[Homburg]

And, I want to add, (not in defense of Adakgirl or speaking against anyone here, I am NOT taking sides), not even my scariest, most painful moments with Chuck have come close to some of my days at work for sheer holy-fuck-ed-ness, so having real life BDSM experience, though very valuable, does not disqualify those without it from being able to comment intelligently on fear and pain. Just my dos centavos, mis amigos.

This I can see. My dad spent 24 years in the army, much of it Airborne. He jumped out of perfectly good airplanes on static lines, yes, but often under conditions that civilian skydivers would wet themselves over. He's theoretically* qualified to talk about fear and overcoming it all day. And then there were those incidents where people were shooting real bullets, etc.

But, much like my dad's experiences, yours are not all that common. Hell, yours are even less common. So I don't think it is a matter of purely R/L BDSM experience alone, so much as it is establishing one's credentials. Should someone like yourself present your own adrenalin rocket rides as background, or a combat vet, or some other form of pure fear trip, I would think that could be seen as proper credentials to discuss fear management.

Personally, I've realised that I'm not that good at discussing it, or giving advice on it. My own 'advice' is usually just feel-good confidence building stuff, not actual technique. Given my own muted reactions to fear, I have not built the coping mechanisms, and thus can't intelligently discuss them. When I decide that I want to walk the railing of a bridge a few hundred yards off the ground, I determine if I am capable or not, and, assuming I am, I just hop up there. Fear's generally not much of a part of the mental discussion.



* - I say theoretically here because my father is the same way I am. I don't honestly think he felt any fear over his jumps. Most guys get kicked out the door on their first jumps at minimum. Pop hopped right out.

 

[BiBunny]

Thanks, K. and Hom. Oddly enough, I don't feel fear much myself in doing crazy things. I've ridden lots of horses no one else would touch because they were nuts and dangerous, and I love racing cars. My fear response only kicks in around people, particularly ones I care about. It's stupid.