FAWC You, Two!

[sr71plt]

Congrats to all who participated (and voted and commented) and especially to MistressLynn. I had that one marked as a 5, so I'm pleased. My only reserve is that I look at Literotica as an erotica site, and I found myself thinking what I'd do to make this an erotic story (and so, in my mind, my story was taking over and I had a little disappointment the actual story didn't put in a twist like that).

I'll also note that it's just one Lit. page. I resolve (once again--didn't hold to it this time) that you should be able to do this in no more than three Lit. pages (if no other reason than that part of the discipline is to be able to do this in the mainstream world too) and that I don't plan even to read any going over that in future contests/exercises. With the exception of "A Chance at Passion," none of the ones over three pages held my attention enough to read them closely after page two and a half. (And in regular reading I do check how long it is before deciding whether to start reading it.)

I thought we'd get a list showing not only the author but the view/votes/comments as well. I think that would be quite instructive. It would have been even more instructive to have a snapshot of that two days into the voting. This exercise is set up to equalize (and, unfortunately, to isolated and pare down the readership), so the reader responses should be within a certain range of each other. When they aren't--and in this exercise they wildly weren't, logic dictates that hanky-panky is going on. It doesn't take a genius to see that. (And I don't think it involved just one story.)

I'm looking forward to a discussion of how the baskets were used--and how others assessed the baskets as used.

I was preoccupied with RL when this started, so I had little attention to devote to it and no preconceptions of what to write--other than to do something different and to take a risk, which is how I approach all contests--before I got my basket. Thus, my story entirely flowed out of the basket. The basket didn't give me any heartburn. I think others got rougher combinations to deal with (and, again, I think "sarcasm" is the hardest to establish and maintain over a story. Maybe someone can point to one they think competes with that).

Looking forward to how well writers felt about their basket and being able to work with it--and whether they started working a story after they got the basket or hammered the elements into a story they already had in mind.

It did strike me when I thought of doing a story to do a cougar one--and to do one where the cougar thought she wanted one guy and discovered she wanted one she had been overlooking. So, that would be my hook. The time/date element became my linchpin and also my "not usual" in a Literotica story element. I went with a precise time (7:48) and day (Wednesday). Thus, the title wasn't to get the story at the head of a list (my story was already submitted before we had that discussion on the thread) but to mark it as the vital element. Practically everything in the story setup revolved around the 7:48 moment.

Arrogant is lodged in one of the male characters--the one the cougar thought she wanted until she managed to chip through his arrogance and realize that wasn't going to change for her. Part of the arrogance depiction was the risk factor I used--making him so full of himself and narcissistic that he was bisexual. I did refrain (with effort) from making that graphic, knowing that would finger me as the author right there (although it fingered me anyway--Dampanties did that). The MMF element, though, was my finger to Literotica, which doesn't include or tolerate that very well.

Art probably should have been the hardest to use, but art--and revealing through paintings--is a central theme of mine, so that was the easiest of the elements for me to include. The cougar's revelation that she's on the wrong track with who she thinks she wants to bonk comes in how the second guy's regard for her is shown to her in the portrait he painted of her in the art class she was teaching. This is the story's turning point--shown more than told.

My weakest element, I think, was energetic. Taking the easy road, I made the cougar energetic in various ways--her physical movement, her activities in life, her participation in the sex act--and highlighted that a couple of times. Not all that clever and I wasn't all that pleased with it. It was the too obvious avenue to take.

Comments on this? Similar sharing of discussions of their work with their basket?

I had someone else fingered for the winning entry on reasoning that seemed plausible to me but turned out to be irrelevant--I even was informed I had the gender of the author wrong. (So, so much for my powers of observation.) I was completely thrown by the hockey one, assuming it was a slam dunk for PennLady, because, although I know little of what others here write, I certainly know that PL writes hockey stories. Assuming the obvious did, though, pan out on who wrote "Sydney Surprise."

I think patientlee deserves a trophy for the most clever use of a basket element--the Zamboni for the vehicle. Especially since I thought the use made of "vehicle" elsewhere was a bit lame.

I didn't notice anyone having any trouble deciding who wrote "Karma." Gee, I wonder why.

 

[patientlee]

Who's ready to talk about mixing their ingredients?

I didn't have a problem putting them together. My problem was that I didn't like where the middle of my story was going, and I started too late to have time to resolve it. The result is that I'm not too fond of the story, and I'm surprised it has done as well as it has.

My ingredients were easy- sport and vehicle went together naturally, as did humility and affectation. I wish I had done a better job making the protagonist appear as less of a pushover and more the victim of a gradually more abusive partner. My intention was to have her appear humble and uncomfortable with the attention she got for being so good at what she does and also to be a little submissive in bed.

Anyway... Zamboni is just a fun word, and I did my best to overuse it! ;-)

 

[sr71plt]

Another discussion question I would be interested in would be what category you would have put your story in if it wasn't destined for Chain Stories. Did not having the choice free you not to worry about it or to write across category lines?

I would put mine in Mature--and I chose the category before anything else based on the challenge of doing it for a contest. And while writing it, I kept that category in mind as if I was submitting it to a contest in the Mature category--and challenging voters to take it on its own merits rather than what were the more popular categories for a contest.

 

[sr71plt]

I didn't have a problem putting them together. My problem was that I didn't like where the middle of my story was going, and I started too late to have time to resolve it. The result is that I'm not too fond of the story, and I'm surprised it has done as well as it has.

My ingredients were easy- sport and vehicle went together naturally, as did humility and affectation. I wish I had done a better job making the protagonist appear as less of a pushover and more the victim of a gradually more abusive partner. My intention was to have her appear humble and uncomfortable with the attention she got for being so good at what she does and also to be a little submissive in bed.

Anyway... Zamboni is just a fun word, and I did my best to overuse it! ;-)

I can see your dilemma. I didn't see your protagonist as having any backbone, and the natural "something changes" requirement of a traditional story would have had her stronger and more with it in the end, I think. I don't think you can be too bright in RL and be so surface about lesbian or not, depending on what's happening around you. I didn't like the abruptness and easy finality of the end to her first relationship either. The writing was really good, though, and I can't deny the masterful use of the Zamboni. I gave it a 4 in my mind, because I wasn't satisfied with a couple of things, mostly the continued weakness--and shallowness?--of the protagonist.

PennLady initially influenced me on thinking she'd written this by a remark she make on another thread--that she had just posted a lesbian story that was doing fine in the ratings. Checking back, I saw that she had another one in the regular listings. At first I thought she was doing an inadvertent reveal on this story, though.

 

[damppanties]

It did strike me when I thought of doing a story to do a cougar one--and to do one where the cougar thought she wanted one guy and discovered she wanted one she had been overlooking. So, that would be my hook. The time/date element became my linchpin and also my "not usual" in a Literotica story element. I went with a precise time (7:48) and day (Wednesday). Thus, the title wasn't to get the story at the head of a list (my story was already submitted before we had that discussion on the thread) but to mark it as the vital element. Practically everything in the story setup revolved around the 7:48 moment.

Arrogant is lodged in one of the male characters--the one the cougar thought she wanted until she managed to chip through his arrogance and realize that wasn't going to change for her. Part of the arrogance depiction was the risk factor I used--making him so full of himself and narcissistic that he was bisexual. I did refrain (with effort) from making that graphic, knowing that would finger me as the author right there (although it fingered me anyway--Dampanties did that). The MMF element, though, was my finger to Literotica, which doesn't include or tolerate that very well.

Art probably should have been the hardest to use, but art--and revealing through paintings--is a central theme of mine, so that was the easiest of the elements for me to include. The cougar's revelation that she's on the wrong track with who she thinks she wants to bonk comes in how the second guy's regard for her is shown to her in the portrait he painted of her in the art class she was teaching. This is the story's turning point--shown more than told.

My weakest element, I think, was energetic. Taking the easy road, I made the cougar energetic in various ways--her physical movement, her activities in life, her participation in the sex act--and highlighted that a couple of times. Not all that clever and I wasn't all that pleased with it. It was the too obvious avenue to take.

Comments on this? Similar sharing of discussions of their work with their basket?

Okay, comments, yes. I had yours down because of the bisexual element as you know. It wasn't just that the arrogant guy was bisexual - and your reasoning for that is interesting but also kind of weird that bisexual people are arrogant? He would be arrogant too if he felt himself to be God's gift to the ladies. Anyhow, the other guy was bisexual too, so the element of both the males being bisexual tipped it for me. If you had stopped with just one guy, I might not have been as certain that it was yours.

I felt you did arrogant and art especially well. With energetic, I had the same issue as you (will talk about my basket later.) The time ingredient was interesting. I didn't feel how or why that would be important at all except for being a coincidence. Perhaps if you'd made it 7:45 instead of 7:48, it might have gone down better as that is more usual than the pinpointed to the minute kind of a deal that you had going. Would people notice that it's 7:48 to the dot when someone comes in?

 

[sr71plt]

Okay, comments, yes. I had yours down because of the bisexual element as you know. It wasn't just that the arrogant guy was bisexual - and your reasoning for that is interesting but also kind of weird that bisexual people are arrogant? He would be arrogant too if he felt himself to be God's gift to the ladies. Anyhow, the other guy was bisexual too, so the element of both the males being bisexual tipped it for me. If you had stopped with just one guy, I might not have been as certain that it was yours.

I felt you did arrogant and art especially well. With energetic, I had the same issue as you (will talk about my basket later.) The time ingredient was interesting. I didn't feel how or why that would be important at all except for being a coincidence. Perhaps if you'd made it 7:45 instead of 7:48, it might have gone down better as that is more usual than the pinpointed to the minute kind of a deal that you had going. Would people notice that it's 7:48 to the dot when someone comes in?

First the "other" guy wasn't bisexual. He was unresolved until the cougar showed him what his choice was. He hadn't had sex with a guy before (unless I screwed that part up). He was being flamboozled that he was gay. And he was being flamboozled by the first guy solely to keep him being the housekeeper. The first guy never intended to actually bed him. I tried to make that clear. Maybe I failed at that.

On the other guy, the arrogance went beyond being bisexual. But, yes, being bisexual can be an element--and I wasn't trying to make it the only or even the primary element in the guy's arrogance--in being arrogant. Central to bisexuality, I think, is narcissism. (At least it was a biggee in my case and in the ones I've observed. I think it's the narcissism in a person that reveals to them that they are bisexual. I believe everyone is basically bisexual and just hasn't realized that.) And, yes, being narcissistic opens you up to an easy route to being arrogant. I threw in multiple indicators of arrogant for the guy. I could have thrown in more, but I saw no point in hitting the reader over the head with that element rather than letting them latch into it themselves from the indicators given.

On the time element. Yes, I think it achieved more focus by being 7:48 rather than 7:45. When I was a manager and had to call meetings (in the last year of my career I was the office's committee chairman--I chaired all across-the-organization meetings so there would be someone who knew how everything was fitting together in a major office reorganization), I had a problem with folks showing up on time for a meeting. When I changed meeting times to an off-beat time (like the 7:48), not only were folks amused, but they also made an effort to show up at that precise time. That problem solved.

 

[damppanties]

On the other guy, the arrogance went beyond being bisexual. But, yes, being bisexual can be an element--and I wasn't trying to make it the only or even the primary element in the guy's arrogance--in being arrogant. Central to bisexuality, I think, is narcissism. (At least it was a biggee in my case and in the ones I've observed. I think it's the narcissism in a person that reveals to them that they are bisexual. I believe everyone is basically bisexual and just hasn't realized that.)

Good god. In relation to your bisexuality and narcissism theory, I now have the urge to write a story that pretty much kills your reasoning about this whole thing.

 

[sr71plt]

Good god. In relation to your bisexuality and narcissism theory, I now have the urge to write a story that pretty much kills your reasoning about this whole thing.

Go for it. Having found male sex years after being content (I thought) in heterosexual sex (after more years than should have existed in being so narcissistic that sex had no play at all. My wife had to seduce me and had a hell of a time doing so--I knew her for two years without having ever having seen beyond my self to pick up her signaling.)--and then continuing fully bisexual, I've had a whole lot of time and examples to think about this one. I'd love to see how you counter it in a story. It would be a wonderful offshoot from this exercise.

If Literotica was receptive to it, I'd write more stories couched in this bisexual "thing" here myself.

 

[SecondCircle]

Been stumbling in here for a little bit from time to time. Read all the FAWC stories (I think) and placed my votes, though tackling the list took a bit of time for my scatterbrain self. Pretty impressed by the quality of all the stories, given the baskets and nature of the challenge and all. Pretty cool. As a reader, I wanted to say I thought it showcased a lot of author's writing abilities, though I tried not to think of who wrote what. (I wouldn't have been able to guess worth a hoot in the first place.)

Anyway, I don't wanna hijack the discussion on baskets (I'm interested to read the thoughts of how things went for you guys) but I noticed along the way people mentioning the readership and the chain category deal. While it sorta levels the playing field in a way (I guess) it gave me a thought that I figured I would run by you all.

Would it be possible to do FAWCing challenges where the stories were centered around particular categories? And then all the stories that were turned in be submitted in the same category? Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but it'd be interesting to see how each anonymous writer handled each category. Plus, it'd make it a bit more tricky to "guess" who wrote each one, if that's your bag.

Didn't wanna intrude or anything, just wanted to throw that out there. Great job on the FAWC and congrats to MistressLynn.

 

[sr71plt]

Would it be possible to do FAWCing challenges where the stories were centered around particular categories? And then all the stories that were turned in be submitted in the same category? Not sure if this has been discussed yet, but it'd be interesting to see how each anonymous writer handled each category. Plus, it'd make it a bit more tricky to "guess" who wrote each one, if that's your bag.

Yes, there's been a side discussion on that on this thread, and it's something to mull. Thanks for bringing it up again as a possibility. Being in the Chain Stories category does put these in a backwater. There's some thought that that is an advantage to the exercise rather than a disadvantage.

I see no reason why various combinations of approaches can't be tried out, including what you suggest.

 

[damppanties]

Go for it. Having found male sex years after being content (I thought) in heterosexual sex (after more years than should have existed in being so narcissistic that sex had no play at all. My wife had to seduce me and had a hell of a time doing so--I knew her for two years without having ever having seen beyond my self to pick up her signaling.)--and then continuing fully bisexual, I've had a whole lot of time and examples to think about this one. I'd love to see how you counter it in a story. It would be a wonderful offshoot from this exercise.

Can I use your characters and continue your story?

Jokes aside, I have the beginnings of an idea. Let's see if it happens.

 

[SecondCircle]

Yes, there's been a side discussion on that on this thread, and it's something to mull. Thanks for bringing it up again as a possibility. Being in the Chain Stories category does put these in a backwater. There's some thought that that is an advantage to the exercise rather than a disadvantage.

I see no reason why various combinations of approaches can't be tried out, including what you suggest.

It actually occurred to me when I saw the author/story list that PennLady posted. Sorta threw me when I read what stories belonged to who. I didn't really care when I was reading, because I was sorta going with the "anonymous" aspect of the exercise.

But thinking back now after seeing the list, I thought it was interesting. Then I thought "what if Naoko or Willie had to write this category with some category specific basket? Or PennLady or Pilot or whoever else?" I wondered what kind of stories would turn out. It would be a good exercise for the writers to try their hands on different topics, and also to get a chance to feel out a crowd (readers) that they've never written for, gauge the reception so to speak.

The Cat could be chosen by all authors involved. Hopefully, seeing a bunch of FAWC stories clogged at the top of the "New Stories" listing wouldn't piss the readership off there. I mean, all that has changed is there are a lot more new stories written by unnamed authors.

Sorry, just my thoughts.

 

[sr71plt]

Gee. Never seen so many Red Hs in one place.

Lemme repeat myself. All the stories are good, and 3 or so earned a Red H.

Whatchu got here is T Ball plastic trophies via creative scoring.

Something of value is now a joke.

I agree that the end result ratings look inflated. Perhaps more so by the scrubbing done, though, than anything the raters were doing. It would be interesting to know the differences (if any) in the system scrubbing between this one and the first one, where the ratings ended up abysmally in the other direction. If the stories were scrubbed harder or differently this time, my gut feeling is that Laurel saw the one (and possibly another one as well) that was trying to steal the show by cheating and scrubbed harder to return the spread closer to a realistic comparison among them--and thus overshooting somewhat.

What the scrubbing did show (to me), however, was the degree of probable malicious voting. My story increased more than a whole point in an overnight scrubbing, for instance (while the problematic stories stayed pretty much the same). And that happened to several of the other stories as well, I think. (Of course, the scrubbing in the first exercise did practically the same thing in elevating my comparative ratings on three of my four stories.)

Regardless, I think it's fitting that so many wound up Hot this time--a reward for taking on the risk of the challenge--something you haven't done, JBJ, so I don't see much of anyone giving your smugness any credibility or serious consideration--beyond what I given it on this post. If you want to have teeth in this, you need to join in the meal and take your chances along with everyone in the exercise.

 

[sr71plt]

Can I use your characters and continue your story?

Jokes aside, I have the beginnings of an idea. Let's see if it happens.

Yes, you can use my characters and continue my story. I think it would limit you, though, on what you could do with your own views. The bisexuality in my story is tertiary. If I was going to give it a full-blown philosophical treatment, I'd want to do it from the ground up myself.

 

[patientlee]

I can see your dilemma. I didn't see your protagonist as having any backbone, and the natural "something changes" requirement of a traditional story would have had her stronger and more with it in the end, I think. I don't think you can be too bright in RL and be so surface about lesbian or not, depending on what's happening around you. I didn't like the abruptness and easy finality of the end to her first relationship either. The writing was really good, though, and I can't deny the masterful use of the Zamboni. I gave it a 4 in my mind, because I wasn't satisfied with a couple of things, mostly the continued weakness--and shallowness?--of the protagonist.

PennLady initially influenced me on thinking she'd written this by a remark she make on another thread--that she had just posted a lesbian story that was doing fine in the ratings. Checking back, I saw that she had another one in the regular listings. At first I thought she was doing an inadvertent reveal on this story, though.

I usually write French and Spanish courses, which is a whole, different beast. (one that I'm taking a break from, which is why I've come out of nowhere to hang out with you fine people!) There were many problems with this story, but I hardly had time to reread it before the deadline, never mind fix it.

I appreciate your honest, yet gentle feedback. I am not a fiction writer, but I do enjoy the attempt to let my mind wander to places I would never actually go. Personally, I would have scored my story a 3. When I have time, I think I'll go back over the story and try to use your (and others') comments to improve it.

Sincere thanks!

 

[damppanties]

Yes, you can use my characters and continue my story. I think it would limit you, though, on what you could do with your own views. The bisexuality in my story is tertiary. If I was going to give it a full-blown philosophical treatment, I'd want to do it from the ground up myself.

Thank you, but as I pointed out, I wasn't serious about using yours. Just joshing wrt the other thread. I agree that it would be limiting to use yours in terms of continuing it as you already have the bisexuality and arrogance established together in this one.

 

[damppanties]

I usually write French and Spanish courses, which is a whole, different beast. (one that I'm taking a break from, which is why I've come out of nowhere to hang out with you fine people!) There were many problems with this story, but I hardly had time to reread it before the deadline, never mind fix it.

I appreciate your honest, yet gentle feedback. I am not a fiction writer, but I do enjoy the attempt to let my mind wander to places I would never actually go. Personally, I would have scored my story a 3. When I have time, I think I'll go back over the story and try to use your (and others') comments to improve it.

Sincere thanks!

For 'not a fiction writer' I must say you're doing pretty well. And 3 is beating yourself up a bit, imo.

I have a question for you about the title. Why 'Be Awesome'?

 

[sr71plt]

Thank you, but as I pointed out, I wasn't serious about using yours. Just joshing wrt the other thread. I agree that it would be limiting to use yours in terms of continuing it as you already have the bisexuality and arrogance established together in this one.

Or, I didn't think you were serious. But I linked this with a discussion going on on another thread--continuing abandoned stories--and I wanted to make clear that you had permission I'm so interested in how you would counterargue my position on bisexuality. In my observation. Literotica folks just sidestep even thinking about it when I note my thoughts on the matter. The thought of bisexuality seems to make folks here nervous (and defensive--which just fits in with my views ) on the topic, I think.

Would you be writing from being actively bisexual or not wanting to think you might be bisexual--and that it would include a strong narcissistic element if you were?

 

[patientlee]

For 'not a fiction writer' I must say you're doing pretty well. And 3 is beating yourself up a bit, imo.

I have a question for you about the title. Why 'Be Awesome'?

She (or maybe I) needed the reminder- Be confident. Be awesome. I had included it in other places, but cut back a bit because "phrase" wasn't in my basket.

And thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[sr71plt]

I have a question for you about the title. Why 'Be Awesome'?

Ah, yes, another element I wasn't that wild about with this story. I think the reader was beat over the head with that term more than was necessary for them to get the point. I thought it was related to the "humility" element, though.

 

[patientlee]

Or, I didn't think you were serious. But I linked this with a discussion going on on another thread--continuing abandoned stories--and I wanted to make clear that you had permission I'm so interested in how you would counterargue my position on bisexuality. In my observation. Literotica folks just sidestep even thinking about it when I note my thoughts on the matter. The thought of bisexuality seems to make folks here nervous (and defensive--which just fits in with my views ) on the topic, I think.

Would you be writing from being actively bisexual or not wanting to think you might be bisexual--and that it would include a strong narcissistic element if you were?

Why isn't there a bisexual category? Or a "Potpourri" category, like on Jeopardy? I would think that I am not the only one in the world that would like to imagine a life that is different from the one that I have (and that I am quite happy with)?

 

[patientlee]

Ah, yes, another element I wasn't that wild about with this story. I think the reader was beat over the head with that term more than was necessary for them to get the point. I thought it was related to the "humility" element, though.

It was.

 

[damppanties]

Or, I didn't think you were serious. But I linked this with a discussion going on on another thread--continuing abandoned stories--and I wanted to make clear that you had permission I'm so interested in how you would counterargue my position on bisexuality. In my observation. Literotica folks just sidestep even thinking about it when I note my thoughts on the matter. The thought of bisexuality seems to make folks here nervous (and defensive--which just fits in with my views ) on the topic, I think.

Would you be writing from being actively bisexual or not wanting to think you might be bisexual--and that it would include a strong narcissistic element if you were?

I have no problem at all with bisexuality. I've had characters in some of my stories that were bisexual without making a big deal about it before.

I didn't get what you meant by the second part of your question, the part I changed to bold. I started thinking about it in a discovery kind of sense, I must admit, but then that really isn't countering your position fully. So I moved to thinking about it in an actively bisexual way, which works just as well in my scenario.

 

[damppanties]

Why isn't there a bisexual category? Or a "Potpourri" category, like on Jeopardy? I would think that I am not the only one in the world that would like to imagine a life that is different from the one that I have (and that I am quite happy with)?

LOL @ potpourri. That might be Group Sex though.

 

[sr71plt]

I have no problem at all with bisexuality. I've had characters in some of my stories that were bisexual without making a big deal about it before.

I didn't get what you meant by the second part of your question, the part I changed to bold. I started thinking about it in a discovery kind of sense, I must admit, but then that really isn't countering your position fully. So I moved to thinking about it in an actively bisexual way, which works just as well in my scenario.

You haven't told me what part of my concept of bisexuality (and that everyone basically is) you would counter. I assumed you didn't want to think that it included narcissism. I'm happy waiting to find out what you would counterargue if it's not the narcissism element.

On narcissism, I think that everyone thinks of their personal pleasure first and foremost. I think men generally accept this as true and that women generally falsely don't accept it as true--and resent that men do. (And I see this play in Literotica discussions all the time--women posters resenting men's attitude about this and assuming it's the man who has to change--because the woman wants it to be about her, dammit). A true narcissist, I think (and have experienced), doesn't really care who else is included in the pleasure creation as long as it's centered on them. As the narcissism increases in dominance, so, I think, does the willingness to take the pleasure from whatever--different sex or same sex. It's mostly about the "me" though.

It was my narcissism that did me in in becoming actively bi. I was seduced by not just women but also men showing me what lengths they would go to because they wanted my body so badly. And I reveled in the attention and the want.

But if this topic is pursued, maybe better on another thread.