Fashionable to Bash Christians?

[pornstarwannabe]

Then you're not reading your own posts.

I have. The one w.r.t. Afghan women was an eye opener. And it was a stat that saddened me. The Acid bath was a good one too. Truthful.

 

[Lord_Steve]

The Nazis made up lies. Consult with the U.N and human rights organizations to see compiled evidence of contemporary atrocities by Muslims.

yo, people in impoverished countries with a history of violence and colonialism tend to do shitty, terrible things to each other. look at africa, for instance, or russia after the revolution.

i'm not denying that people who happen to be muslim are capable of doing awful things, i'm objecting to the fact that you are focusing on their religion above all other factors.

i don't know if i can make this any more clear for you. the koran calls for tolerance and harmony with non-muslims. it says jihad should only be used to defend the holy lands, and not offensively. it says specifically that women and children should never be called upon to give their lives for islam. the people that are doing these things are shitty, shitty muslims who are regarded with horror by practitioners of islam the world over.

the danger here is that you are tarring over a billion people with the same brush.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

yo, people in impoverished countries with a history of violence and colonialism tend to do shitty, terrible things to each other. look at africa, for instance, or russia after the revolution.

i'm not denying that people who happen to be muslim are capable of doing awful things, i'm objecting to the fact that you are focusing on their religion above all other factors.

i don't know if i can make this any more clear for you. the koran calls for tolerance and harmony with non-muslims. it says jihad should only be used to defend the holy lands, and not offensively. it says specifically that women and children should never be called upon to give their lives for islam. the people that are doing these things are shitty, shitty muslims who are regarded with horror by practitioners of islam the world over.

the danger here is that you are tarring over a billion people with the same brush.

See bolded text. I though followers of Islam forced the conquered to submit, or pay a tax to live. Then there were the conquered that paid a tax and got the living hell raped out of their women and children.

 

[EllieTalbot]

Any religion can be a positive or negative thing - it all depends on how the individual interprets and practices.

You say that as if most people have a choice, which isn't true since nearly everyone who is raised in a religion is told how to interpret it by their family, friends, coreligionists, community and their very culture, from the day they're born. That can be tough to overcome. And if they're born into a culture where no other views are permitted and exposure to them is scarce, then the chance one has of "interpreting" anything on their own is practically nil.

That isn't true of Christianity anymore. Nearly every society with a Christian majority is secularly organized and places a high value on pluralism. Christian children raised in these societies are exposed to a hodgepodge of philosophies and views, including criticism of their own religion. That's where the will to develop personal interpretation comes from.

There's no motive to re-interpret that which isn't criticized.

Which is why I puzzle endlessly about why supposedly liberal, human rights-loving people allow themselves to be duped into protecting Islam from criticism, and jump instead on Christianity, which is by comparison is a toothless, haggard old lion.

Islam is today what Christianity was to the Middle Ages. And as someone who's always fallen to the liberal side when it comes to the self-evident value of human rights, which were established by centuries of struggle against Christian dogmatism, I'm aghast to see those rights shrugged off by a throng rallying 'round Islamists, simply because they're a minority in our countries.

And this...


"Any religion can be a positive or negative thing - it all depends on how the individual interprets and practices..."

is just a fatuous platitude.

Mooning Mecca,
Ellie

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

It's all Constantine's fault! Bastard!

 

[mercury14]

And in your next post you will tell me which judge does not have to adhere to the Constitution.

Respond to this please.

 

[Angellica1612]

that's funny, one of them was responsible for a lot of car bombs in ireland if i remember correctly!

any "muslim" who embraces violence against outsiders and uses women and children as a weapon of war does so against the teachings of the koran. just like christians who advocate violence do so against the teachings of the bible. it's as simple as that. the concept of the "offensive Jihad" was created by bin Ladin and other lunatics and has been denounced thoroughly by clerics across the world.

when you use "muslims" as a blanket term you are referring only to the fringe radicals, which is exactly like pointing to the Westboro Baptist Church as exemplifying all "true Christians"

what people choose to do in the name of their religion reflects upon them and them alone. the reason that people are calling you bigoted is because you are directing a frightening amount of bile at 1.6 billion people based on the example set by a few.

think about that. 23% of people in the world are muslim. the vast, overwhelming majority of those people are not evil or violent or full of hate, yet you insist on tarring them all with the same brush.

personally, i don't agree with bashing any religion. i think the original teachings of jesus christ are admirable to the extreme, even if i don't believe in his divinity.

Very well said!

 

[Lord_Steve]

See bolded text. I though followers of Islam forced the conquered to submit, or pay a tax to live. Then there were the conquered that paid a tax and got the living hell raped out of their women and children.

then... you're wrong? where are you getting this from? when muslims invaded spain contemporary spanish historians were astonished at how well they treated the lands and people they conquered. rape and looting was forbidden. compare this, if you'd like, to how the christians treated the holy lands during the crusades.

Which is why I puzzle endlessly about why supposedly liberal, human rights-loving people allow themselves to be duped into protecting Islam from criticism, and jump instead on Christianity, which is by comparison a toothless, haggard old lion.

Mooning Mecca,
Ellie

you're making some generalizations here- i don't turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed by muslims and i heartily condemn throwing acid in a woman's face or sending children on suicide missions! these things are evil, and should be stopped. but as i have said, these things are not representative of what is in the koran or how most muslims think and act.

and islamophobia has reached a terrifying level in american culture. there are an increasing number of people who honestly believe that we should nuke 'em all and let allah sort them out.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

http://www.laughhumor.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/4492d_d2GPJ.jpg

 

[Angellica1612]

You say that as if most people have a choice, which isn't true since nearly everyone who is raised in a religion is told how to interpret it by their family, friends, coreligionists, community and their very culture, from the day they're born. That can be tough to overcome. And if they're born into a culture where no other views are permitted and exposure to them is scarce, then the chance one has of "interpreting" anything on their own is practically nil.

That isn't true of Christianity anymore. Nearly every society with a Christian majority is secularly organized and places a high value on pluralism. Christian children raised in these societies are exposed to a hodgepodge of philosophies and views, including criticism of their own religion. That's where the will to develop personal interpretation comes from.

There's no motive to re-interpret that which isn't criticized.

Which is why I puzzle endlessly about why supposedly liberal, human rights-loving people allow themselves to be duped into protecting Islam from criticism, and jump instead on Christianity, which is by comparison is a toothless, haggard old lion.

Islam is today what Christianity was to the Middle Ages. And as someone who's always fallen to the liberal side when it comes to the self-evident value of human rights, which were established by centuries of struggle against Christian dogmatism, I'm aghast to see those rights shrugged off by a throng rallying 'round Islamists, simply because they're a minority in our countries.

And this...


"Any religion can be a positive or negative thing - it all depends on how the individual interprets and practices..."

is just a fatuous platitude.

Mooning Mecca,
Ellie

Very astute points, Ellie.

 

[Lord_Steve]

http://www.laughhumor.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/4492d_d2GPJ.jpg

yo and this is a great example of the shit i'm talking about from the other direction.

knock it off, willya?

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/files/2012/01/jesus-loves-you-unconditionally-under-a-few-conditions-600x470.png

 

[pornstarwannabe]

then... you're wrong? where are you getting this from? when muslims invaded spain contemporary spanish historians were astonished at how well they treated the lands and people they conquered. rape and looting was forbidden. compare this, if you'd like, to how the christians treated the holy lands during the crusades..

What I stated was factual. And while i agree that many were killed by Christians "in the olden days" in the Name of God and Beliefs, Christianity's followers have evolved. Islam's followers have not. They are still stuck in a century from the last Millennium.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You say that as if most people have a choice, which isn't true since nearly everyone who is raised in a religion is told how to interpret it by their family, friends, coreligionists, community and their very culture, from the day they're born. That can be tough to overcome. And if they're born into a culture where no other views are permitted and exposure to them is scarce, then the chance one has of "interpreting" anything on their own is practically nil.

That isn't true of Christianity anymore. Nearly every society with a Christian majority is secularly organized and places a high value on pluralism. Christian children raised in these societies are exposed to a hodgepodge of philosophies and views, including criticism of their own religion. That's where the will to develop personal interpretation comes from.

There's no motive to re-interpret that which isn't criticized.

Which is why I puzzle endlessly about why supposedly liberal, human rights-loving people allow themselves to be duped into protecting Islam from criticism, and jump instead on Christianity, which is by comparison is a toothless, haggard old lion.

Islam is today what Christianity was to the Middle Ages. And as someone who's always fallen to the liberal side when it comes to the self-evident value of human rights, which were established by centuries of struggle against Christian dogmatism, I'm aghast to see those rights shrugged off by a throng rallying 'round Islamists, simply because they're a minority in our countries.

And this...


"Any religion can be a positive or negative thing - it all depends on how the individual interprets and practices..."

is just a fatuous platitude.

Mooning Mecca,
Ellie

Liberals are afraid of Islam. They know how batshit crazee Muslims are. Liberals kissed Hitlers ass too.

 

[Lord_Steve]

What I stated was factual. And while i agree that many were killed by Christians "in the olden days" in the Name of God and Beliefs, Christianity's followers have evolved. Islam's followers have not. They are still stuck in a century from the last Millennium.

again: how is this factual? do you have any source that suggests that the koran calls for the oppression and rape of the conquered?

also, who are you talking about that hasn't evolved? this is why i keep saying you're making broad assumptions and expecting them to stick. are you saying that impoverished people stuck in countries with brutal dictatorships and long histories of violent struggle haven't achieved the level of sophistication you demand?

and for the hundredth time: there are muslims living all over the world! stop referring to them as a group!

a former teacher of mine, a devout muslim woman, was about as highly evolved and advanced as any human being i've ever known. she made me feel medieval by comparison. she lives in a first-world country. is she stuck in the last millennium too?

 

[mercury14]

You say that as if most people have a choice, which isn't true since nearly everyone who is raised in a religion is told how to interpret it by their family, friends, coreligionists, community and their very culture, from the day they're born. That can be tough to overcome. And if they're born into a culture where no other views are permitted and exposure to them is scarce, then the chance one has of "interpreting" anything on their own is practically nil.

That isn't true of Christianity anymore. Nearly every society with a Christian majority is secularly organized and places a high value on pluralism. Christian children raised in these societies are exposed to a hodgepodge of philosophies and views, including criticism of their own religion. That's where the will to develop personal interpretation comes from.

There's no motive to re-interpret that which isn't criticized.

Which is why I puzzle endlessly about why supposedly liberal, human rights-loving people allow themselves to be duped into protecting Islam from criticism, and jump instead on Christianity, which is by comparison is a toothless, haggard old lion.

Islam is today what Christianity was to the Middle Ages. And as someone who's always fallen to the liberal side when it comes to the self-evident value of human rights, which were established by centuries of struggle against Christian dogmatism, I'm aghast to see those rights shrugged off by a throng rallying 'round Islamists, simply because they're a minority in our countries.

And this...


"Any religion can be a positive or negative thing - it all depends on how the individual interprets and practices..."

is just a fatuous platitude.

Mooning Mecca,
Ellie

You're over-generalizing "Islam" to be what's practiced in places like Afghanistan.

Indonesia has nearly a quarter of a billion people, the vast majority of whom are Muslim. That's more Muslims than Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Jordan combined.

Why don't you include Indonesian Islam in your analysis? You know, that massive Muslim nation that officially recognizes Catholicism and Protestantism (and Hinduism, Confucianism, and Buddhism)? And guarantees religious freedom for all? And exposes its children to a hodgepodge of philosophies?

It's my firm position that when we talk about "they" that we need to incorporate an accurate picture of who they are.

 

[Liar]

Islam is today what Christianity was to the Middle Ages.

More like what Christianity was in the 19th century. And very different for different branches of Islam. And even very different within the same branches of Islam. But fair enough. I think we agree on the main problem.

I just fail to see why the solution would be to beat the entire religion with a physical and/or verbal stick.

If you are going with the "Oh, we're just trying to inform you of the bad things that happen in the Islamic world" argument, you are arrogant beyond belief to think we don't know about things that happen in the world, just because we don't obsess about them on a porn board.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

again: how is this factual? do you have any source that suggests that the koran calls for the oppression and rape of the conquered?

also, who are you talking about that hasn't evolved? this is why i keep saying you're making broad assumptions and expecting them to stick. are you saying that impoverished people stuck in countries with brutal dictatorships and long histories of violent struggle haven't achieved the level of sophistication you demand?

You cannot be serious, right?

 

[mercury14]

Very astute points, Ellie.

Then her house of cards falls apart when you realize she depends on tired stereotypes and over-generalizations.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

More like what Christianity was in the 19th century. And very different for different branches of Islam. And even very different within the same branches of Islam. But fair enough. I think we agree on the main problem.

I just fail to see why the solution would be to beat the entire religion with a physical and/or verbal stick.

If you are going with the "Oh, we're just trying to inform you of the bad things that happen in the Islamic world" argument, you are arrogant beyond belief to think we don't know about things that happen in the world, just because we don't obsess about them on a porn board.

While you may know about them (bad Muslim acts) many here find it easy to give Muslims a pass, yet turn right around and bash Christians.

 

[Liar]

While you may know about them (bad Muslim acts) many here find it easy to give Muslims a pass, yet turn right around and bash Christians.

So, you are arrogant beyond belief.

 

[Lord_Steve]

You cannot be serious, right?

uhhh, again, sources please? because

"O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." Chapter 49, Verse 13

"God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable." Chapter 60, Verse 8

"Repel (evil) with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint." Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62

this is what is in the koran. where does it say that muslims should oppress and rape again? find me that passage, please.

 

[mercury14]

Sharia will only creep in IF Activist Judges allow it to creep in.

You still need to tell me which judge is above the Constitution.

 

[mercury14]

While you may know about them (bad Muslim acts) many here find it easy to give Muslims a pass, yet turn right around and bash Christians.

Really? Which person here gives Muslims or Christians a pass for doing something abhorrent?

 

[1sickbastard]

Two threads were posted recently:
a. The Islamic Blurt Thread
b. The Christian Blurt Thread

At the time of this OP, the Christian thread is at post #70, and the Islamic thread is at post #71. If you have not seen both, then please take a quick look. It's obvious to me based on these two threads that LITsters bash Christianity much more freely than they bash Islam.

I wonder why.

Two reasons:
1)People in the West and in the USA especially are familier with Christianity. Even those brought up in non-practicing, agnostic or atheist homes are living in a culture whose basic cosmology is grounded in Christianity. As such, it's far easier for us to see the disconnect between what the religion is supposed to be versus how the most visible members of said religion are percieved based on their public appearances and public statements.
Essentially, familiarity breeds comtempt.
2)We're scared to shit that if we bash Islam, some muslim wakka-doo is gonna track us down and suicide bomb us.
But once we get to know Islam more, and realize their religious nut-jobs are no worse than our own (except for the suicide bombing part), we'll start throwing their bullshit back in their faces as well.