Do you "Steal" computer software?

[Killswitch]

I'm having a hard time arguing or discussing anything with anyone who likes Red Green....I like Rd Greean almost as much as I like Mr Bean....they both rule!

Ya, I agree Ismael and Heretic seem to be in the industry, but I dont think they are in Marketing ,Finance, or Corporate.

I dunno....it's just very suspitious why they dont stop it when they can.

 

[Cibo]

Yes...I steal a shitload of computer software daily.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Calculating the value of software on my pc, roughly $3000. I paid $0. Music, I have no idea but there is quite a bit of it. Same with movies. I am a common criminal. A thief. An untrustable person.

But alas, tis better to be hated for what I am, than loved for what I am not.

Now tar and feather me.

A little honesty never hurt anyone.

The problem with most of us isn't that you're doing. The problem is that you were saying you were right to do it.

To those of us who work in the industry and have had their efforts stolen by people like you, they'll see it completely differently.

I'm not going to condemn a man for doing something that I've done, though. I'm a hypocrite like everyone else, but not that much of one.

 

[horny_giraffe]

Stealing computer software is like stealing a car.

Easier, but it's still theft. I'm against it.

That being said, for those of you who steal from Microsoft, you can google warez group postings of registration codes if your copy doesn't have one.

Lance

As much as I respect your opinion, I have to disagree. As I understand it, theft technically requires depriving someone else of property. Stealing someone's car deprives them of their car. Making an illegal copy of someone's software deprives them of only of potential profits--they are left with the same assets that they had before the so-called "theft."

Ethical considerations aside, my understanding is that copyright is a completely different legal animal from theft because of that distinction.

Morally speaking, you can call a copyright violation theft. But I'd also say that that the case of my landlord overcharging me for my apartment is also theft, morally speaking. But I'd have a hard time prosecuting him for that.

 

[Angel]

But alas, tis better to be hated for what I am, than loved for what I am not.

.

And now you are a sigline thief as well !

 

[Arc da Rat]

Okies I have read most of this ...

Yes I have DL music from Napster ...
I discovered 2 groups that I would not have normally found thru stores locally. The rest of it either ...

1) I have never seen available on the market.
2) I have in another format (LP or tape) but not inprint on CD.

I try to get stuff on CD, if I DL of the net. It is not possible in some cases.

My software is mostly bought. I do have some that I have not paid for. Granted that 2 of them are big programs that where installed into my computer & I do not have the disc for.


My confusion is that on some of my US release CDs, it sez ...
Warning: Unauthorized reproduction is a violation of applicable laws.

I know that some of my import CD from Europe have sez to include no borrowing or renting of said product too.
Unauthorized copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance & broadcasting prohibited.

Does this mean if I rip it as an MP3 or make a tape ... I am breaking the law?

I am probably spliting hairs with these ... I just want some oppinions from others ...

 

[sterlingclay]

The problem with most of us isn't that you're doing. The problem is that you were saying you were right to do it.

To those of us who work in the industry and have had their efforts stolen by people like you, they'll see it completely differently.

I don't remember saying specifically that it is right to do. I did however say I can. There are gray areas out there I can wander through without feeling like an awful person. This is one of them.

If you'd like, go back and read through my posts. I don't have a habit of spewing jibberish in a serious argument. And I have a few ideas that are not set in stone. I think that is the important thing when living in this world.

I'd like to add, as I was looking through my system and adding up the value, I did feel a twinge of guilt. I have dozens of free or trial use programs on my system. But there is at least one high end program that I could not live without. Call it deperation, but when a classmate offered it, I took it. I would not be able to offered it on my student income.

 

[BlazeofLife]

Okies I have read most of this ...

Yes I have DL music from Napster ...
I discovered 2 groups that I would not have normally found thru stores locally. The rest of it either ...

1) I have never seen available on the market.
2) I have in another format (LP or tape) but not inprint on CD.

I try to get stuff on CD, if I DL of the net. It is not possible in some cases.

My software is mostly bought. I do have some that I have not paid for. Granted that 2 of them are big programs that where installed into my computer & I do not have the disc for.


My confusion is that on some of my US release CDs, it sez ...
Warning: Unauthorized reproduction is a violation of applicable laws.

I know that some of my import CD from Europe have sez to include no borrowing or renting of said product too.
Unauthorized copying, reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance & broadcasting prohibited.

Does this mean if I rip it as an MP3 or make a tape ... I am breaking the law?

I am probably spliting hairs with these ... I just want some oppinions from others ...

I think in this particular case, the issues were addressed earlier when it was stated that archival copies can be made for your own use, hence the "unauthorized copying..", which thereby implies that copying can be authorized in some cases.

That being said, I DL music, images, files, software, and most anything that I at some point or another wish to.
I make no excuses for it, no do I have any ethical problems with it.
I can't even use the same tenuous arguments made by some others in this thread, because not only do I DL such for my own use, but I also burn them and sell to others for a small amount.
I can't justify my actions based on the fact that I only DL songs because they're the only one's I like on an album, due to the fact that I make a practice of downloading albums.
Does this make me a thief?
Of course, in every sense of the word.
I may not steal from a "real person", since most people seem to try to say that the companies which are being hurt are large faceless entities, but the nature of the victim doesn't change the validity of the crime perpetrated on said.
I also DL (steal, as it is called when used in such a way as I do) movies, images, files, and software.
Come on people, if you do this then you are a thief. Perhaps you're right on some points; perhaps businesses such as gas companies and record industires do steal from us. That doesn't change the fact of what we do, anymore than it affects anything else we do.
I admit to it, I am a thief.
At least I'll be an honest one.
I'm sure some will call my ethics into account, and morals, and question my worth. Let them.
I know the consequences of my actions, I know my own worth, and I know what I choose to do.
Think what you want.

Blaze

 

[sterlingclay]

And now you are a sigline thief as well !

Damn! I thought I could get away with that one.

 

[sterlingclay]

I can't even use the same tenuous arguments made by some others in this thread, because not only do I DL such for my own use, but I also burn them and sell to others for a small amount.

Blaze

Whoa!

I am but a thief, I am not a fraud.

 

[BlazeofLife]

Whoa!

I am but a thief, I am not a fraud.

I never said that you were, I made the classid "they" inference. Looking back over the course of this thread, any number of people have made seperate and distinct arguments for and against what I do, many of them without bothering to worry about such petty details as merit and logic.
I'm the last person to be making accusations.

Blaze

 

[sterlingclay]

I never said that you were, I made the classid "they" inference. Looking back over the course of this thread, any number of people have made seperate and distinct arguments for and against what I do, many of them without bothering to worry about such petty details as merit and logic.
I'm the last person to be making accusations.

Blaze

I said I was a thief. When someone says "they" I filter their meaining for them. Yeah, I dl software, music, movies (LOTR dvd screener is awesome!) But I don't sell them. Too risky and it crosses too far into the gray zone for me. No judgements, just watch yourself cause that can be extremely costly. Both in the money clip and in time.

 

[Draco]

Guilty as charged, moralise all you want...I don't really give a damn. I know the risks, I take the consequences.

When record companies charge a reasonable amount for albums, and software companies charge a reasonable amount for Progs, Appz Gamez etc, and movie studio's and distributors charge reasonable amounts for DVD's, I'll start buying them, but until then.....call me what you want, a crook,a thief etc etc.

Since when was Windows XP Pro worth $899 (NZ Retail)
Or Photoshop 6.0 worth $1899....??

Cmon.....no game, software, album etc is worth the sticker price and we all know it.



Biblical quote: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone:

Regarding the last post. I do object to selling tho...I may charge a couple of bucks for the blank CD and my time to burn it, but no more. I do think thats wrong, but in no way, shape or form, cast dispersions or judgements on that poster.

 

[sterlingclay]

XP Pro: 450CAN
XP Office: 800CAN
Photoshop 7: 1100CAN+tax= 1247

 

[Draco]

Clay, I quoted NZ Retail, coz thats where I am.

I'd be interested to know...whats a top 40 Music CD worth in the US, Can and the UK?

Here its $34, and a DVD is between $45-60 (NZ Dollars)

Here's one for you to ponder. I worked for a company in NZ called DataFlow, we were Adobe Licensed Resellers, as well as Microsoft.
The Adobe agent used to "leave" genuine copies of their shiny new software on my desk. A week or so later he'd phone me up and say "Hey M***, did I leave Photoshop 6.0 there, by any chance?"

Thats their OWN agent. He'd knew I'd run off to the burner with it. Thats why they were left.

Cool...HUH?

 

[sterlingclay]

Clay, I quoted NZ Retail, coz thats where I am.

I'd be interested to know...whats a top 40 Music CD worth in the US, Can and the UK?

Here its $34, and a DVD is between $45-60 (NZ Dollars)

Here's one for you to ponder. I worked for a company in NZ called DataFlow, we were Adobe Licensed Resellers, as well as Microsoft.
The Adobe agent used to "leave" genuine copies of their shiny new software on my desk. A week or so later he'd phone me up and say "Hey M***, did I leave Photoshop 6.0 there, by any chance?"

Thats their OWN agent. He'd knew I'd run off to the burner with it. Thats why they were left.

Cool...HUH?

Cool huh? With inflated prices like that, yes.

A top 40 in Canada is worth... I have no idea. About $20 I guess. In my province we pay an addittional 14% tax on goods and services. In the US I think it's around $15. All depends on where you shop.

DVD's have come down a little. Wallymart usually sells them for under $20. A new release can be upwards of $30 (or more for "special releases").

I know our dollar is roughly the same, but to compare, what is the minimum wage in your area? Here I believe it's $6.50 per hour. An admin assistant will start around 20k, give or take a couple grand.

 

[Arc da Rat]

That's interesting Draco. Thank you Blaze!

I knew I was spliting hairs with my question.

I really don't blame people for burning CDs ... I might not like it but its a fact of life. I see what regular CD prices are & the sale prices at my work place are that great either.

I just wonder how WE (the company I work for) are going to survive in the market when Circuit City & Costco have CD & DVD price way lower than what WE would have it on sale.

I mean if the record companies can bring out Nora Jones' CD at $9.99 (US) when it was release then subiquently raise the price to where it is now at $18.99 (US). *Shakes her head* Granted she was "unknown" back then, & she is HOT right now. The CD still sells but I wonder if the general public knew what the price was back then right now ... I bet there would be an out cry. (Or at lease some kind of drop of sale at my work place)

Ok I am babbling ... right now ... its too late / early for me ... I gonna stop posting. Night all!

 

[Killswitch]

Clay, I quoted NZ Retail, coz thats where I am.

I'd be interested to know...whats a top 40 Music CD worth in the US, Can and the UK?

Here its $34, and a DVD is between $45-60 (NZ Dollars)

Here's one for you to ponder. I worked for a company in NZ called DataFlow, we were Adobe Licensed Resellers, as well as Microsoft.
The Adobe agent used to "leave" genuine copies of their shiny new software on my desk. A week or so later he'd phone me up and say "Hey M***, did I leave Photoshop 6.0 there, by any chance?"

Thats their OWN agent. He'd knew I'd run off to the burner with it. Thats why they were left.

Cool...HUH?

See, this is what I am talking about. There is an Ulterior motive here and its called Marketing. And they are doing the Marketing for free by leaving that disc with Sterling, or allowing me to DL photoshop for free and sit here and yap about it to all my friends for days. Ergo: Free Marketing and priceless marketing and exposure at that...person to person. If one person that has perused this thread goes out and buys it , its worth the five free copies they gave me and the rest to "pay" for the marketing....and they didnt "Pay" a dime because none of us would have bought the program anyhow.

They know this.

Music CD's cost anywhere from 12 us dollars to as much as 19 us dollars.......12 being on sale stuff or older less popular releases, and 19 I'd say being high end.

DVD's are anywhere from 15 to 25 dollars U.S.

 

[Killswitch]

Oh, and like an earlier poster said....I also spend most of my time Downing music I already have on CD , Tape, or Album......although I have Downed a fair share of other stuff, but there again.....I am not going to go buy it, and wouldnt have.

Example: I have spent at least an hour here and in several threads touting a guy named Hans Zimmer, who does Musical Scores...Hannibal, Lion King, Gladiator , the list goes on.....but I would never have bought the CD with Dollars.....but I bet you any money I have enticed at least one person to do so. Free Marketing again.

Call it justification....and maybe I have made myself believe this in a way to justify the use of these programs and music selections in my own mind.....but I think I am right.

 

[Draco]

At todays mid-point of trading

Aus Dollar = 0.9200 NZD (guestimate)
US Dollar = 0.5402 NZD (actual price)
UK Pound = 0.3100 NZD (guestimate)

Basic minimum wage is $8.25 per hour.

The "guestimate" is coz I only really take notice of the US Dollar price, but from memory, the figures are close

I have no idea how the NZD stacks up against the CAN dollar, because the Tele never has it. Only monitors Aus, US, UK, and Yen (our major trading partners) I guess I could check my banks International Exchange Page, but I'm too lazy....LOL

 

[Killswitch]

Are you saying the US dollar is only wirth 54 cents new zealand? Or $ 1.46 ?

 

[Guest]

Yes.

 

[Antioch_TN_Cpl]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. People who "steal" software, are the reason the rest of us who get ours legaly, have to pay such high prices.

Actually, that's not quite true. A recent study found that if Microsoft only sold Windows and Office for about $85 rather than the hundreds (or several hundres in the case of Office), they would still make an enourmous profit, because not only would it sill be a ROI for them, more people would be able to afford it, and they would quickly conquer the market even more than they have now.

That said, I don't want them to do that, because I use Linux and have a special place in my heart for Billy Gates...a deep, dark place... ;-)

 

[sterlingclay]

I have some scary news to report but it will have to wait for this evening because I'm busy and I forgot the link.

 

[The Heretic]

Actually, that's not quite true. A recent study found that if Microsoft only sold Windows and Office for about $85 rather than the hundreds (or several hundres in the case of Office), they would still make an enourmous profit, because not only would it sill be a ROI for them, more people would be able to afford it, and they would quickly conquer the market even more than they have now.

I would like to see a URL for that study - it seems flawed to me and here is why; all market surveys say that Windows owns over 90% of the desktop market, most say it owns over 95%, and a few place it at around 98%. Now tell me again how reducing the price by half and gaining only 5% more market share would make more profit for Microsoft?

Are you sure they weren't talking about the server market?

There are several factors to be considered when setting price; current market share owned, what the market will bear and market penetration. Microsoft is not stupid - they know that they virtually own all of the desktop market share, they know just what the market will bear (which is why they own all of the market share) and they have very good market penetration - indeed, market penetration is such that they may be approaching saturation. This also, with some variation, pretty much applies to MS Office.

When you have low market share, or your product is grossly overpriced, or market penetration is very low - then cutting your price drastically, especially if it is well below your competition - then, with software, you may be able to drastically increase your installed base (and therefore market share and penetration) and, depending on your costs, you may be able to make quite a bit more profit. I worked once for a company that did just the opposite - and that is one of the reasons that now 10 years later they still aren't making a profit.

End of Marketing 101.

That said, I don't want them to do that, because I use Linux and have a special place in my heart for Billy Gates...a deep, dark place... ;-)

Linux does well in the server market, but while it's market share is growing on the desktop, it is still minsicule - the real battle between Windows and Linux is on the server and, more importantly, for developer mindshare.