Do you ever say 'No'?

[graceanne]

All this is why I'd never be a slave. I'm not going to go into details about how I was raised, but I could never trust someone that much. And it wouldn't be a matter of just changing my mind. I don't make promises I don't intend to keep. I will never put myself in a position where someone else can hurt me (in bad ways ) and I am totally powerless. Hell will freeze over first.

Beyond that, my children are number one in my world. When K and I went into this I told him flat out that if I didn't agree with a decision that would affect the children that I would say so, and fight with him for them. He (being the great dad he is) said he'd expect nothing less from me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Please also keep in mind that while D/s is not something that can be turned on/off for everyone, not everyone is in a Master/slave relationship where there is not the option of saying no. In most D/s relationships that I know of (thinking in particular about the ones that do not use the term "slave" in any way) this is not the case. It isn't a case of a submissive who thinks that this is "a role [to be] shed at will" or who thinks that this isn't "real life" or who doesn't "keep [her] place". This is someone who is coming to terms with melding the "real life" with the D/s aspects of her relationship.

While your input is valuable, your tone leaves a bit to be desired, in my opinion. It comes across to me as "my way of being a pyl means that I'm more devoted than other people because I never say no" - and that is more than a bit offensive to me.

tone is easy to misread on a computer screen...i do not think that i am any more or less devoted than any other in my particular situation (slavery). and yes i realize that not all D/s relationships are Owner/slave obviously, but that is the only D/s dynamic i can speak on as i have no experience with anything else.

but whether the D/s relationship is one of Owner/slave or just Dominant/submissive (or whatever else), we all have the day-to-day issues of kids, or work, or family, or mood swings, or whatever. my point was just that all of these things are a part of D/s because D/s is a part of you...who you are inside...and within a relationship that power dynamic is always in effect, screaming babies, dirty dishes, migraine headaches and all. there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "no", if one has such freedoms in their relationship, but those of us who do not live in the "real world" as well with all of its various issues.

 

[shy slave]

tone is easy to misread on a computer screen...i do not think that i am any more or less devoted than any other in my particular situation (slavery). and yes i realize that not all D/s relationships are Owner/slave obviously, but that is the only D/s dynamic i can speak on as i have no experience with anything else.

but whether the D/s relationship is one of Owner/slave or just Dominant/submissive (or whatever else), we all have the day-to-day issues of kids, or work, or family, or mood swings, or whatever. my point was just that all of these things are a part of D/s because D/s is a part of you...who you are inside...and within a relationship that power dynamic is always in effect, screaming babies, dirty dishes, migraine headaches and all. there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "no", if one has such freedoms in their relationship, but those of us who do not live in the "real world" as well with all of its various issues.

This makes sense to me, I just know it would not be easy for me to follow through each and every time.

Its one of the reasons for asking the orginal question.

I can then see how people manage the difficult times, what I can learn, think about, re-shape and use to make things possible on 'bad' days.

 

[shy slave]

Great post from a reality base I can relate to. Being submissive does not mean throwing all caution to the wind and placing the Dominant in a postition of omnipotent one who is entitled to demand and expect the impossible, including risking the welfare of children, others, or their submissive....I think it is more about being dominant in a real world where the unexpected can and does happen, and then has to be negotiated into the whole picture when absolutely necessary. Let's face it, there are few Dominant's who really would feel good about their child being run over by a car because they were outside but their mother/father was prevented from ensuring their safety until after the Dom/me had their blowjob, or who would feel very dominant if they demanded something of their submissive regardless which resulted in the submissive dying in the middle of it from a heart attack or stroke. Unfortunately there are things in our realities which we, Dominant or submissive, are incapable of controlling but can take into account and deal with wisely.

Catalina

This is another post that makes sense to me.

I can easily imagine some alleged PYl who would want their tea on the table, a blow job, whatever they decide regardless of the other issues the pyl had to deal with.

For some practical things I guess I have an expectation the PYL will notice that the pyl is busy with children etc.

However, they can't always be expected to notice if its an emotional turmoil that prevents them from doing as asked.

From all the posts there is an element of each person knowing the other and gauging the mood etc and making a decision based on that assumption or knowledge

 

[ownedsubgal]

This makes sense to me, I just know it would not be easy for me to follow through each and every time.

Its one of the reasons for asking the orginal question.

I can then see how people manage the difficult times, what I can learn, think about, re-shape and use to make things possible on 'bad' days.

i doubt it's always "easy" for anyone shy. heck, i have bad days and sometimes REALLY bad days, days where i'm fighting my own demons of depression and don't want to get out of bed, much less serve as usual. or days where it seems like every 10 seconds he's telling me to do one minor little thing after another and i can't take a breather (which i now know he does on purpose at times because as he says, he likes to see me laboring)...days where i may just be totally emotionally beatdown but he's still demanding extremes...i am definitely not always a happy, smiley, no complaints in my heart little slavegirl lol. it's just a matter of fully accepting your place, never forgetting that place, and then dealing with life from there. and if the relationship is a good one, you will be at peace deep down, even if on the surface things are not so lovely.

oh, and there will be f*ck-ups...that is life. but a responsible Dominant swallows their pride and takes those burdens on themselves.

 

[catalina_francisco]

There are so many answers to the question this thread poses, and from a variety of valid perspectives and realities. I think another aspect which has not been mentioned is about the responsibility of slave, or even submissive. It is not always as clear cut as the Dominant demands, the slave/sub obeys. Why? For us I am his property, and just as he would not be overjoyed if I drove the car knowing it was out of oil and through my neglect and bad judgement, blew up the engine, he also expects me to act in a way which means I am taking care of me as his property. This is how it is in many M/s relationships, and also IME D/s.

Translated that means, if I am feeling excessively depressed to the point where following a command of his could deepen the depression and move perhaps even to suicidal, or if I suspect there is a serious medical reason why I should not follow his orders at that moment in time, it is my responsibility to inform him of the problem so he can make an informed decision whether to continue, take responsibility on his part for outcomes for that decision.....to not tell him, or expect him to ask me or already know, IHO is deceptive, not caring for, protecting and respecting what is his, and also setting him up for a situation which might bring him not only sadness but a sense of failure which is not rightfully his failure to carry but which he would to some extent feel at lower moments. It also is depriving him of the optimal use and enjoyment of his property if through my lack of ability to inform him of the situation I am no longer available for his use and pleasure either temporarily or permanently. The decision to take or not take that risk is not mine to make, it is his alone.

Catalina

 

[shy slave]

There are so many answers to the question this thread poses, and from a variety of valid perspectives and realities. I think another aspect which has not been mentioned is about the responsibility of slave, or even submissive. It is not always as clear cut as the Dominant demands, the slave/sub obeys. Why? For us I am his property, and just as he would not be overjoyed if I drove the car knowing it was out of oil and through my neglect and bad judgement, blew up the engine, he also expects me to act in a way which means I am taking care of me as his property. This is how it is in many M/s relationships, and also IME D/s.

Translated that means, if I am feeling excessively depressed to the point where following a command of his could deepen the depression and move perhaps even to suicidal, or if I suspect there is a serious medical reason why I should not follow his orders at that moment in time, it is my responsibility to inform him of the problem so he can make an informed decision whether to continue, take responsibility on his part for outcomes for that decision.....to not tell him, or expect him to ask me or already know, IHO is deceptive, not caring for, protecting and respecting what is his, and also setting him up for a situation which might bring him not only sadness but a sense of failure which is not rightfully his failure to carry but which he would to some extent feel at lower moments. It also is depriving him of the optimal use and enjoyment of his property if through my lack of ability to inform him of the situation I am no longer available for his use and pleasure either temporarily or permanently. The decision to take or not take that risk is not mine to make, it is his alone.

Catalina

This is a good point,
The submissive does have responsibilty for themselves.

Its too easy to say 'Its the PYL fault, for not realising'

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

Thank you for this post osg. The only time i have ever said "no" to Master was when He was beating me and He told me to tell Him to stop...i knew He needed to beat me more and my response to Him was, "no Master".

i doubt it's always "easy" for anyone shy. heck, i have bad days and sometimes REALLY bad days, days where i'm fighting my own demons of depression and don't want to get out of bed, much less serve as usual. or days where it seems like every 10 seconds he's telling me to do one minor little thing after another and i can't take a breather (which i now know he does on purpose at times because as he says, he likes to see me laboring)...days where i may just be totally emotionally beatdown but he's still demanding extremes...i am definitely not always a happy, smiley, no complaints in my heart little slavegirl lol. it's just a matter of fully accepting your place, never forgetting that place, and then dealing with life from there. and if the relationship is a good one, you will be at peace deep down, even if on the surface things are not so lovely.

oh, and there will be f*ck-ups...that is life. but a responsible Dominant swallows their pride and takes those burdens on themselves.

 

[Netzach]

I assumed a live-in D/s relationship between a Dominant and submissive partner, rather than an M/s ownership relationship from the question. This may have been shortsighted on my part.

My slave, H, doesn't have the option of refusal. He can certainly beg me to reconsider. He is encouraged to tell me how much he hates the things he hates, if for no other reason that we both often enjoy it when I laugh at his misery and trepidation.

I may threaten him with difficult challenges. (Karaoke, panhandling, wearing a foam hot dog mascot suit around town...whatever....) Ultimately I also decide whether they will happen or not, no matter how much he hates the idea

...taking into account how much and why, sure. But if I want it to happen it happens.

 

[graceanne]

I may threaten him with difficult challenges. ([Karaoke, panhandling, wearing a foam hot dog mascot suit around town...whatever....)

*snorts*

 

[Kajira Callista]

Do you ever say 'no'?

no

 

[graceanne]

no

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been trying to resist saying that since the thread went up.

I'm also glad that you succumbed before I did.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been trying to resist saying that since the thread went up.

I'm also glad that you succumbed before I did.

i knew you wanted to resist so i helped you....sorta.

 

[graceanne]

i knew you wanted to resist so i helped you....sorta.

Well everytime I see the title to this thread I think 'NO!'. lol It's been driving me batty.

 

[Etoile]

Yes, I say no. This does not mean I get what I want, but I most certainly refuse things and beg to be released from things. I think because of the way our relationship is, Daddy is usually okay with me refusing things because e knows e can always coax, cajole, or simply force me into them anyway if e really wants to. Sometimes they're not things that e really needs to have happen and so I will get my way, but even though I say no there's always the possibility that I will have to anyway. I know that, Daddy knows that, it's just how we are, I guess.

 

[Etoile]

to this day, i am surprised whenever he takes mercy on me, or takes it easy on me for whatever reason.

I am the same way. In fact, I am disappointed in both of us when I am shown mercy. I think this is because our relationship is long-distance. I have so few opportunities to show my love that I am desperate to do so when we are together. If it is all made easy for me, I feel I am not working hard enough and cannot prove myself in a physical way.

 

[shy slave]

I am the same way. In fact, I am disappointed in both of us when I am shown mercy. I think this is because our relationship is long-distance. I have so few opportunities to show my love that I am desperate to do so when we are together. If it is all made easy for me, I feel I am not working hard enough and cannot prove myself in a physical way.

Yes, I can also relate to that. That does not mean I want punished (in my definition of punishment) but I want him to push the limits whenever possible.

My frame of mind does affect the variations of the limits I can take but I feel displeased with myself if he stops short of what I perceive to be his pleasure.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yes, I can also relate to that. That does not mean I want punished (in my definition of punishment) but I want him to push the limits whenever possible.

My frame of mind does affect the variations of the limits I can take but I feel displeased with myself if he stops short of what I perceive to be his pleasure.

I used to do that...still do at times...but he reminds me it is not for me to decide what he requires or is happy with and if he weren't happy, he would definately take more of or demand what he wanted. Takes some getting around it in your head when in the wrong mood though.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

I used to do that...still do at times...but he reminds me it is not for me to decide what he requires or is happy with and if he weren't happy, he would definately take more of or demand what he wanted. Takes some getting around it in your head when in the wrong mood though.

For me it's more an issue of not having the opportunity to give enough of myself. Not that I think I'm being less than is expected of me, but that I *want* to be more and I don't get to be.

 

[catalina_francisco]

For me it's more an issue of not having the opportunity to give enough of myself. Not that I think I'm being less than is expected of me, but that I *want* to be more and I don't get to be.

I can understand that. Even though we usually live together, there used to be the same drive in me that I should give more, do more, please more......and it took ages for him to get through to me it was not for me to decide or feel anything about other than what he asked of me, and that I had to accept and understand he set the pace and he made the demands, not me....but it still is not easy to realise that you are pleasing by doing only what asked, not what you believe should be asked of you.....I get frustrated with it at times though until I can get back into the mindset, or nail where the drive in me is coming from and why.

Catalina