Do the French mean business?

[GiaCat]

The French Prime Minister said in effect that a declaration of war exists between France and ISIS. But I wonder if this is just a politician saying this because he is expected to, or is he going to put his words into action? France has a formidable enough military to conceivably invade ISIS territory. They can even do it without the US helping them. So will they man up, or let ISIS slip through the Ardennes forest and pull there pants down?

 

[Noor]

The French Prime Minister said in effect that a declaration of war exists between France and ISIS. But I wonder if this is just a politician saying this because he is expected to, or is he going to put his words into action? France has a formidable enough military to conceivably invade ISIS territory. They can even do it without the US helping them. So will they man up, or let ISIS slip through the Ardennes forest and pull there pants down?

They bombed ISIS a lot today.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Given France's recent history one can only hope it's the pull their pants down option since it's hard to imagine how the retard option ends particularly well for them.

 

[oggbashan]

The French Prime Minister said in effect that a declaration of war exists between France and ISIS. But I wonder if this is just a politician saying this because he is expected to, or is he going to put his words into action? France has a formidable enough military to conceivably invade ISIS territory. They can even do it without the US helping them. So will they man up, or let ISIS slip through the Ardennes forest and pull there pants down?

They had already sent their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier BACK to the Eastern Mediterranean. If necessary they can deliver nuclear weapons and, unlike the UK, they don't have to ask the US 'Please can we use our nuclear toys' first.

French special forces are very experienced and capable, and they have the Foreign Legion. Like US Marines, no one fucks with the Foreign Legion. When France capitulated in 1940, the Foreign Legion in Africe said "Sod that" and kept fighting the Germans and Italians.

 

[OjosMojo]

Does McDonald's mean cuisine?

 

[Ishmael]

They had already sent their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier BACK to the Eastern Mediterranean. If necessary they can deliver nuclear weapons and, unlike the UK, they don't have to ask the US 'Please can we use our nuclear toys' first.

French special forces are very experienced and capable, and they have the Foreign Legion. Like US Marines, no one fucks with the Foreign Legion. When France capitulated in 1940, the Foreign Legion in Africe said "Sod that" and kept fighting the Germans and Italians.

I hear you. I've met some Legionaire's and they're not to be sneezed at. The issue is NOT France's military capability, it's their political will. Only time is going to tell.

Ishmael

 

[intolerance]

Do the French mean business?

For show

 

[intolerance]

The French Prime Minister said in effect that a declaration of war exists between France and ISIS. But I wonder if this is just a politician saying this because he is expected to, or is he going to put his words into action? France has a formidable enough military to conceivably invade ISIS territory. They can even do it without the US helping them. So will they man up, or let ISIS slip through the Ardennes forest and pull there pants down?

is married to a JEW

after the Hedbo attacks, he said the same and was attacked thru his wife the JEWEESS

all this will be forgotten in 3 days

 

[thør]

They bombed ISIS a lot today.

"Thought of the day: I'm seeing people worshipping the French airstrikes in response the the terrorist strikes in Paris, claiming that the French are doing what America doesn't have the balls for. This is very surreal and mimics the Putin worship over his intervention in Syria (which really isn't targeting ISIS in the first place). Here are some facts and figures.

The US has conducted 6,353 strikes in Iraq and Syria (3,695 Iraq / 2,658 Syria). France has conducted 4 in Syria and 5 in Iraq. Then tack on the 20 from today, that gets you 29 airstrikes against ISIS compared to our 6,000+. Some people just really really hate Obama no matter what he does and can't see through their anger."

- Jack Murphy (from his FB page)

 

[pensivepoet]

Maybe they should build another maginot line to keep the terrorists out.
It sure worked well against the Germans.

 

[intolerance]

"Thought of the day: I'm seeing people worshipping the French airstrikes in response the the terrorist strikes in Paris, claiming that the French are doing what America doesn't have the balls for. This is very surreal and mimics the Putin worship over his intervention in Syria (which really isn't targeting ISIS in the first place). Here are some facts and figures.

The US has conducted 6,353 strikes in Iraq and Syria (3,695 Iraq / 2,658 Syria). France has conducted 4 in Syria and 5 in Iraq. Then tack on the 20 from today, that gets you 29 airstrikes against ISIS compared to our 6,000+. Some people just really really hate Obama no matter what he does and can't see through their anger."

- Jack Murphy (from his FB page)

The bs of numbers

It was reported that France leveled the HQ and more of ISIS.....why hasn't the US till now!

 

[Ishmael]

"Thought of the day: I'm seeing people worshipping the French airstrikes in response the the terrorist strikes in Paris, claiming that the French are doing what America doesn't have the balls for. This is very surreal and mimics the Putin worship over his intervention in Syria (which really isn't targeting ISIS in the first place). Here are some facts and figures.

The US has conducted 6,353 strikes in Iraq and Syria (3,695 Iraq / 2,658 Syria). France has conducted 4 in Syria and 5 in Iraq. Then tack on the 20 from today, that gets you 29 airstrikes against ISIS compared to our 6,000+. Some people just really really hate Obama no matter what he does and can't see through their anger."

- Jack Murphy (from his FB page)

This is all true but deflects from the real problem, that being boots on the ground. It's well established that air power cannot take or hold ground. Neither is it particularly effective against a dispersed, relatively low tech. enemy. (Asymmetrical Warfare) And even with the precision of the new weaponry it is still essentially the same as swatting flies with a baseball bat not to mention the percentage of strikes that are on non-targets due to erroneous intelligence. The French are NOT immune to these shortcomings.

The French are merely repeating our efforts I don't expect to see any substantial results from their efforts.

But it all looks like we're actually "doing something."

Ishmael

 

[BotanyBoy]

The french could but they won't....

They will do some air strikes, maybe a few smash n' grabs or HVT hits and call it done.

They aren't going to go in there and kill ISIS and everyone standing with them.

 

[Hard_Rom]

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Then it's a bloody scream!

 

[RobDownSouth]

I hear you. I've met some Legionaire's and they're not to be sneezed at. The issue is NOT France's military capability, it's their political will. Only time is going to tell.

Ishmael

If there is one thing Ishmael thinks he is an expert about, it's the French!

How can you tell who the French war hero is?

The one that only puts one hand over their head.

That's the one thing about the French bro. The have this propensity to do the wrong thing at the wrong time damn near everytime, but they do it with panache. Everybody love a clown.

Ishmael

Man, are you nuts? The French NEVER retreat.

They surrender.

Ishmael

The French DO carry one bullet. They aren't allowed to carry guns, they drop them all the time.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

If there is one thing Ishmael thinks he is an expert about, it's the French!

Provide the links or it's all bullshit.

I have quoted Schwarzkopf re. the French, "Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion."

Ishmael

 

[Hard_Rom]

You would have to be able to airlift a brigade in and out real fast. With heavy armour. Sticking around means troop dispersal and garrisons, open to suicide bombers. Maybe bring in regional troops to fill void when you leave. Just don't expect them to stick around with out western troops in front of them.

ISIS is lucky to have a division of well dispersed fighters. With air superiority comes freedom of movement. Don't stick around hit them then move on or get out.

Eventually though like all resistance/guerilla/terrorist they can blend back in to civilian population. There is a fighting season in Afghanistan. You close your little shop up and go earn money from Taliban. The rest of the year you are just a shop keeper.

A hearts and minds campaign with heavily armed mobile conventional force. Maybe set up forts in the desert. Tempt the bad guys to attack them, then massacre them. Hearts and minds means being amongst them though. Start taking casualties or incur civilian deaths with you as target.

How many troops with tanks can be airlifted in, spend 7 days on operations and the be airlifted out? The Brits have an Air Assault Brigade with 8k personnel.

 

[1sickbastard]

I wouldn't underestimate the French military capabilities or their political will, particularly after last Friday's events.

Will they opt for a massive invasion?
Unlikely. That's a stupid, costly, blunt force approach which will make their forces easy targets for guerrilla tactics. However, I can see them possibly using US airlift capabilities (assuming a lot, as the French have medium lift craft which can deploy a reinforced platoon with heavy weapons) to drop in legionnaires when and if concentrations of ISIS forces present suitable targets, then working with friendly indigenous forces to kill as many ISIS fighters as they can before withdrawing, leaving the indigenous forces to mop-up.

The WW2/Cold War scenarios just don't apply in this sort of fight. This is about hit and run tactics with the goal of wearing down the opponent through attrition.

I'll go ahead and predict the "ISIS" forces which perpetrated Friday's attacks are grass-root cells which were coordinated by ISIS, not actual ISIS operatives which infiltrated French Boarders. These sorts of cells are very tough to identify and even more difficult to infiltrate.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Syria and Lebanon are old French colonial regions. Beirut was a European playground not all that long ago. France is active in Africa. They have interceded a few times recently. Algeria has always kept French military and intelligence branches on their toes. They still have interest in something in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Parts of the Congo fall under the old colonial spheres of influence.

If they do put boots on the ground, don't expect them to stay. French know about colonial involvements. Get in do a reprisal raid or small campaign and get out. French hate casualties as much as the rest of the west.

20% is acceptable casualty rate for military. Lot fucking lower for civilians.

 

[1sickbastard]

You would have to be able to airlift a brigade in and out real fast. With heavy armour. Sticking around means troop dispersal and garrisons, open to suicide bombers. Maybe bring in regional troops to fill void when you leave. Just don't expect them to stick around with out western troops in front of them.

ISIS is lucky to have a division of well dispersed fighters. With air superiority comes freedom of movement. Don't stick around hit them then move on or get out.

Eventually though like all resistance/guerilla/terrorist they can blend back in to civilian population. There is a fighting season in Afghanistan. You close your little shop up and go earn money from Taliban. The rest of the year you are just a shop keeper.

A hearts and minds campaign with heavily armed mobile conventional force. Maybe set up forts in the desert. Tempt the bad guys to attack them, then massacre them. Hearts and minds means being amongst them though. Start taking casualties or incur civilian deaths with you as target.

How many troops with tanks can be airlifted in, spend 7 days on operations and the be airlifted out? The Brits have an Air Assault Brigade with 8k personnel.

Heavy armor is more of a liability in a get-in/get-out situation. Heavy armor requires a shitload of logistical support: fuel, ammo, mechanics, spare parts, secure areas for repairs, etc. Moreover, heavy armor tends to be vulnerable to AT systems, any number of which are man-portable. And this is all in addition to the fact that the AMX Leclerc weighs in about 57 metric tonnes, which means they'd need USAF for airlift.

Now, considering ISIS doesn't have any armor, a paratroop force armed with infantry heavy weapons, in conjunction with CAS should provide plenty of capability to handle ISIS troop formations and supporting units, without risking expensive and cumbersome armor.

 

[Ishmael]

You would have to be able to airlift a brigade in and out real fast. With heavy armour. Sticking around means troop dispersal and garrisons, open to suicide bombers. Maybe bring in regional troops to fill void when you leave. Just don't expect them to stick around with out western troops in front of them.

ISIS is lucky to have a division of well dispersed fighters. With air superiority comes freedom of movement. Don't stick around hit them then move on or get out.

Eventually though like all resistance/guerilla/terrorist they can blend back in to civilian population. There is a fighting season in Afghanistan. You close your little shop up and go earn money from Taliban. The rest of the year you are just a shop keeper.

A hearts and minds campaign with heavily armed mobile conventional force. Maybe set up forts in the desert. Tempt the bad guys to attack them, then massacre them. Hearts and minds means being amongst them though. Start taking casualties or incur civilian deaths with you as target.

How many troops with tanks can be airlifted in, spend 7 days on operations and the be airlifted out? The Brits have an Air Assault Brigade with 8k personnel.

You have made some valid points, and missed others.

First of all while asymmetrical forces to have certain advantages they also are burdened with one extreme problem, logistics. Armies march on beans and bullets, not ideology. Your identification of command of the skies is the key, but not in the context of being able to deliver and evacuate forces, but in the context of logistics. The key to the undoing of asymmetrical forces lies in Julius Caesar's Battle of Alesia.

Heavy armor is not required, as a matter of fact it would be a hindrance. Mobility is the key with forces postured looking in to contain and looking outwards to prevent reinforcement/resupply. You work the geography one enclave at a time.

Such a tactic would be brutal on the civilian population, but there is no evidence that ISIS is any less brutal without being besieged. As a matter of fact in the ISIS strongholds there is no evidence that any substantial civilian population remains at all.

In order to prevail western civilization is going to have to abandon a great many notions regarding 'nice' wars. Including having to come to grips with who/what the enemy actually are/is.

Ishmael

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I'll take a big ol' helping of freedom fries. Funny how that works. You can only bury your head in the sand so long.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

The French sure had our backs after 911.

 

[GiaCat]

They had already sent their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier BACK to the Eastern Mediterranean. If necessary they can deliver nuclear weapons and, unlike the UK, they don't have to ask the US 'Please can we use our nuclear toys' first.

French special forces are very experienced and capable, and they have the Foreign Legion. Like US Marines, no one fucks with the Foreign Legion. When France capitulated in 1940, the Foreign Legion in Africe said "Sod that" and kept fighting the Germans and Italians.

The French military is tough. People criticize them for surrendering in WW2, but that was due to incompetent generals. The solders fought hard.