Do people really slam stories intentionally?

[HedbangerSA]

I've only posted two stories here, one that just posted this morning, and am probably inclined to assume the worst of people who give me bad scores because I'm biased. But with both stories I've watched my averages and when they start to peak all of a sudden several votes come in that really knock it down -- such that they would have had to give me like a 1. I know that could happen, but when the story is scoring close to 4.7, and I'm getting lots of positive feedback, it seems weird. Especially since they seem to come in clumps. I've seen lots of people make comments here suggesting that there are voters who will intentionally trash stories that are doing well. My questions are:
Do you really think that people do that, or is it just paranoia on the authors' part?
If they do, why?
Who are these people, other authors? Readers who just enjoy cutting someone down?
None of that makes any sense to me. I read other people's stories a lot, and if I'm not going to give a really good score, I don't vote at all. My view is that anyone who puts in the effort to write a story for nothing deserves to be treated politely.
On the flip side, I've gotten a bunch of really nice comments from people today, so maybe it balances out.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=199877

 

[SlickTony]

I can't speak for the others, but I can't imagine authors slamming stories intentionally for spite. If you write, you know what work and what feeling goes into a story. I have low-rated stories, of course, but only because I thought they sucked. I will take a point off a story if it's abundantly clear that they didn't even spellcheck it. Once, however, 1-voted a story because its so-called author had plagiarized it, word for word, changing only the name of the protagonist, from somebody else.

 

[MathGirl]

#$%^&&$#@! voting

Dear HB,
That's the way it always seems to work with my stuff. Right up there at the top of the first page for about 20 votes, then the bottom falls out.

This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. I'm convinced that a few of the most successful writers feel threatened when something good appears. They see that it gets voted off the top 500. It happens too regularly to be mere coincidence.

Lit. is like any other established instutution. There's limited room at the top, and those who are there will fight like hell to stay there. Who knows, I might do the same thing in their place. I don't think so, though.

Bottom Line: There's absolutely nothing to be done about it. Live with it. We all do. It gets easier over time.
MG

 

[KillerMuffin]

Yep.

Oddly enough I got my first You Suck! email in like two years. It was immediately followed by some asking if they could feature my work in their publication.

I can't figure out if I suck or if I'm publishable.

 

[Dirt Man]

Can you spell complacency?

Who are these people, other authors? Readers who just enjoy cutting someone down? None of that makes any sense to me. I read other people's stories a lot, and if I'm not going to give a really good score, I don't vote at all.

And that's why crap is at the top of the lists, because you, and many others do not vote if the story IS CRAP!

Competition for prizes here are judged by the vote count, as are the top lists, and thus that makes it a little tempting for certain people to score with a heavy handed 1, to keep good, or great stories from competing with theirs. My suggestion is simple. If you open a story then vote on it. DON'T JUST BACK OUT. If you don't like it even enough to continue reading then score it a 2 and you've done your duty. If it's average then vote a 3, if it's publishable but not exactly great vote 4. A page turner without any grammatical, or spelling errors deserves a 5.

If everyone did vote this way then there would be a real change in the top lists, and the monthly contests, but most people won't, and so things stay the same. And that's why there is a lot of crap at the top of the lists. If we who do know the difference between crap, and what isn't crap don't vote when we see it, then we deserve the voting averages that we get.

I tell ya this, if I could get everyone to do it, I'd have us all start reading the top stories, and start voting properly right now. But that's just me.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[PAUL C]

The feeling of power

Some people like the feeling of power they have by giving deliberately low votes and watching the effect it has on the score of a story. If probably gives them even more pleasure if the author responds in some way through the Boards.

Go by the feedback (or lack of it) that you receive. At least it meant that your story affected somebody enough that they were willing to respond in writing, even if they didn't like it.

I don't think there is a story of mine that has hit a top list that hasn't had at least one '1' vote.

As for posting honest scores that will never happen. People like to see their name in 'lights.' I agree that some of the top stories are not very good. But that appears to be what the voters want. In a democracy you may not always agree with the result but you have to live with it until your next time to vote.

 

[Dirt Man]

I agree that some of the top stories are not very good. But that appears to be what the voters want.

The problems is, a lot of authors here say they don't vote if the story is crap. They only vote if they like the story. And that's how the crap rises to the top. Because they don't vote on the crap all it gets is 5's from their friends.

If the story deserves a 4, or a 5 I give it that. Likewise, if it deserved less, then I give it that too, but I send feedback to anyting less than a 4. For 4's and 5's I just vote.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[MathGirl]

Trinitrotoluene

If everyone did vote this way then there would be a real change in the top lists,

Dear Dirtie,
I disagree. If you look at the number of votes most of the top stories have, you would see that a few honest (2) votes would have little or no effect on their average.

Those stories so are firmly entrenched that dynamite wouldn't move them.
MG

 

[Image]

Speaking of voting...

My only story was posted on February 12th and quickly received many views and votes. At one point it had a score of 4.81. Then all of a sudden votes stopped at 22 (a couple more trickled in... total 25) but views continue, almost 7000 last count. I was really impressed with that number. It made me realize how enormously popular this site is.

The question... Is that ratio (view to vote) the norm?

And I do have to wonder about vote tampering like the few of you... But I'm willing to accept that it just might be my ego. Still though...

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I do vote 1 or 2 sometimes. If the story I read is very, very bad. If it's just boring or unbelievable, I hit the back-button, but if it's REALLY bad, I show the author this by giving it a low vote.

I mean, if I would write a really stupid story that sounded like a Barbara Cartland-ripoff with Penthouse scenes thrown in at random, people wouldn't be doing me any favours by giving that crap high votes - on the contrary, it would encourage me to continue writing crap instead of developing.

I do separate "bad stories" in two categories - those that are poorly written by an author that I sense can do better, and those that are overall lousy by an author who writes the way he does because that's the way he likes it.
The first category, I send feedback to, explaining why I didn't like the story, and suggest improvements.
The second, I don't waste my energy on. They're not here to be writers, they're just here to blow off some smut-steam.

 

[Guest]

I would hope.......

Mathgirl said:

"This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. I'm convinced that a few of the most successful writers feel threatened when something good appears. They see that it gets voted off the top 500. It happens too regularly to be mere coincidence."

I truly do hope that this isn't the case. I can't imagine the really good writers who do have some of the best stories here on Lit are out purposely (1) voting other author's works just to ensure theirs remain on the top. If a writers story is truly good, I think in time the readership will fairly judge that and vote accordingly.

But yes, there certainly IS down voting that takes place, which I think is unfortunate, and has happened to all of us at one time or another.

I do know that Laurel has a system in place to review this, Lit has been good to fairly review the contests, monthly winners, and make adjustments where it is "obvious" this type of petty down voting has taken place.

Just John1 had a great "toy" story series and yeah, it was tough giving him a (5) which I felt it was worth awarding, especially when it put his story above one of mine. LOL. But I believe that a well done piece deserves the acclaim and standing.

I rarely vote a (2) let alone a (1) myself. I'm more like many others, bailing out of a story entirely without even voting on it if it just doesn't strike my fancy. And I'm not so picky that if a story has a few minor gramatical errors, that I will not give it a 4 or 5. If I truly enjoyed it, then I think its worth the vote of confidence as I see it.

If the attempt was interesting in story content at least, though perhaps poorly written (so much so its really distracting), then perhaps a 2 or 3....if again I can even get through the story.

So there's my take. And have heart....Lit IS reviewing this voting thing constantly. But more importantly, as I learned to appreciate and enjoy, its the "feedback" more than anything that tells the writer how good a story is or isn't. Learn from that and don't put quite so much stock in the scores. Eventually they'll shake themselves out.

I remain,

 

[Guest]

Boy, I really hate thinking about this. But I know it happens!

I don't believe it is the most talented writers on the site doing this, however. I think it is the "less than" who will constantly vote stories down so their own work appears to be more qualified.

It does hurt when thirty minutes before a deadline to win a category (11:30 p.m. - lol) you notice all of a sudden your scores are tanked. I don't think that's coincidence!

Site administrators can catch people fraudulently voting, but this - *sigh* - this is annoying as hell!

What's the answer? I think the cream, the best stories, will always rise to the top. They will be able to stand the test of time. And hopefully the poorly written works will eventually just fall away.

(shaking my head at what Ms. Pollyanna just wrote - geez - can ya tell I write fiction???)

 

[HedbangerSA]

What a great bunch of responses. Thanks to all for your thoughts, and it is a relief to hear that I'm not completely paranoid (just a little bit).
I understand the point that the Dirt Man made about giving bad stories low votes. In most cases the stories that I think are really bad just don't seem worth the effort, and don't have terrific averages anyway. These are the ones that read like someone just spewed stream of consciousness smut and then never reread it or used a spell check. No originality, no real characters (it is really funny when the character changes magically in mid-screw - the girl's hair color or physical description), no plot.
Then there are the ones where you can tell that the author was really trying, just didn't have much imagination and/or not enough training, and you suspect they will never get much better but think it's neat that they tried. Those I give a 4 usually.
Next come the ones where the author clearly has some talent, where there is something that clicks in the story and makes it take on at least some life -- but there are flaws like grammar and bad structure, or maybe a bit of laziness not to have spent the time to clean the story up and put enough thought into it. Those I usually give feedback to and, again, a 4.
For the good stories, even if they have some typos, I always vote a 5 - and it frankly never occurred to me to worry about whether they were ranked above or below mine. I know there are contests, but that isn't why I posted stories and I don't think of this as a zero-sum game.
I just don't see the point in giving anyone a 1 or a 2 -- I understand the argument that was made eloquently by Svenskaflicka, that this just encourages them but do you really think that those people are going to be deterred by those votes?
I'd like to believe that Sweetsubsarah is right, that the slammers are not the gifted authors, it wouldn't bother me as much if it's the "Less than" gifted types venting a little frustration.
I suspect that the best advice here was Mathgirl's, that I should just get used to it and not let the petty stuff bother me. I'm happy with a voting average that isn't a threat to anyone's contest, especially with good feedback. By the way, Mathgirl, I love your new photo.
To Image -- it seems that putting a note at the end of your story asking for feedback and votes really helps. And obviously the category you're in affects both. But in my second and third stories (with notes) my vote-to-views ratio was much better.
Sorry to drone on - thanks again for the comments.

 

[MathGirl]

Certainment!

I suspect that the best advice here was Mathgirl's

Huh! Quick on the uptake, that boy.
MG

 

[HedbangerSA]

Image's Question

Image - other people may have had other results but for comparison, my first story was in NonConsent and I didn't include an appeal for votes/feedback. In three weeks I've gotten 59 votes from 16,900 views - very close to your ratio.
On the story that went up yesterday (Incest - obviously a popular category), with a note at the end, I've gotten 158 votes out of approx. 29,000 reads - a much higher ratio. And I think I've gotten 15 feedback notes, about half anonymous. The interesting thing was that I got no feedback on the first one, and my votes had stopped coming in - just like you said - until my second story went up. All of a sudden I got three or four feedback notes, and another 10 or 15 votes. So there definitely seems to be some synergy to having multiple stories. I hope this helps.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=199877

 

[Guest]

Re: Certainment!

Huh! Quick on the uptake, that boy.
MG

*giggles*

 

[Dirt Man]

Same old same...

Sandman writes:
I rarely vote a (2) let alone a (1) myself. I'm more like many others, bailing out of a story entirely without even voting on it if it just doesn't strike my fancy.

I am soooooo tired of hearing this one line answer by credited authors here. You opened the story up, but you didn't like it so you left without voting. And then you can't figure out why this story gets on the top lists and yours doesn't? Give me a break. If you can't finish it, for what ever reason, at least vote accordingly. I had presumed that most of the authors in here were responcible adults. As real authors then we, more than anyone else have the responcibility to vote properly on ever story we open. This mamby pamby, "I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings" crap makes me want to throw up my chitlings. If you want to do a writer a real favor then vote properly, every time you open a story, and if you do feel guilty for giving such a duely earned low score then send them feedback so that they do get better. You know, the same feedback that you all crave so dearly. But please, stop copping out.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[Guest]

Dirtman........

To clarify........

Do you always finish every article you begin reading even if you find after you have that you don't care for it?

Just because I don't like a story doesn't mean it's something I should vote a 1 or a 2 on. If I bail, most of the time its because I honestly didn't care for it.

And as many WILL note, I always send feedback on those stories I have read. I make a point of commenting on what I honestly liked, and why...as well as any glaring things that jumped out at me that I thought could have been better for whatever reason.

I'm not an editor...so I don't critique a story on grammatical errors. Too much like calling the kettle black.

And trust me...if the story's good, it will hang around the top regardless of wheter I liked it or not. And if its bad....no matter how many "friends" vote on it initially, there's too many "readers" who come to Lit who will put it where it eventually belongs.

My 2 cents..........

I remain,

 

[Dirt Man]

And trust me...if the story's good, it will hang around the top regardless of wheter I liked it or not. And if its bad....no matter how many "friends" vote on it initially, there's too many "readers" who come to Lit who will put it where it eventually belongs.

This is a matter of faith for you, right? Yet if you don't vote, why should they? If you only vote for good stories, why shouldn't they? Nope, that just doesn't wash with me, sorry. If you opened the story, then you should vote on it. Good, or bad. There is no gray area on this.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[KillerMuffin]

If I voted, I think that it would be mostly 1s and 2s with a few smatterings of 3s and 4s with the lone 5s everyone once in a while. Everytime I make an editorial comment around here, someone is quick to tell me that these people are amatuers and that my standards are too strict.

I used to not vote because I was competitive and no one wrote as good as me. Gawd, what a horrid attitude. Now I don't vote much because no one could possibly ever believe that their stories would be given a 1 because the voter thought they actually deserved that 1. Oh, no. All 1s and 2s are malicious. Just ask the authors who received them.

Sorry, no. If I give a story a 1 it's because I didn't like anything about the story. Therefore, that story earned a perfectly legitimate 1 vote from me. And no, I don't email people and tell them why they got a 1. I have people jump down my throat for giving them less than glowing, here's a publication contract you utter genius style feedback when they ask for it, let alone when they don't.

 

[MathGirl]

Chitterlins

makes me want to throw up my chitlings.

Dear Dirtie,
Can I use that line?
MG

 

[HedbangerSA]

Hey, I'll enjoy it while I can!

Wow! I know it won't last, but my latest story is currently #2 on the Erotic Couplings toplist, with a rating of 4.81. Only based on 16 votes (and it only posted this morning), but still -- I'll take it for however long it lasts. More importantly, I've gotten a bunch of really nice feedback comments (including one from a 77 year old woman, not sure what that says about my story). I wasn't sure whether to post the story at all, worried that it wasn't 'erotic' enough for this site. It is sort of a fantasy within a fantasy, and it ends without the 'climax' that I figured readers here wanted. Erotic Couplings is one of the orphan headings, without the following and masses of voters that Incest and Nonconsent seem to attract, but I'll take doing well in a small pond.

 

[HedbangerSA]

Another Question

I got such a good response from that question, I'll try another. Why do you post stories here?
It is a lot of work, the pay is lousy and you expose yourself to the kind of abuse that we've been talking about. I just finished reading KillerMuffin's diatribe Dealing with Negative Feedback, which I would recommend, and as she ranted about how unreasonable, sadistic and moronic someone like "Mr. You Suck" is, and how he can keep us focused, etc., it begged the question of why put up with it at all? (I notice that KillerMuffin doesn't appear to be accepting feedback anymore).
For newbies like me, just the thrill of having your work read by thousands of people without grovelling for month trying to get someone to show an interest in it is enough. I wonder about those of you who've been responding who've posted dozens of stories - the newness has surely worn off.
Mathgirl said we should just get used to abusive voting, etc. (glad you liked the comment, Mathgirl, and "giggles" back to you, KillerMuffin) - implicit in that is the assumption that despite the abuse, what we're doing is worth the effort and vulnerability.
Okay -- tell me why?

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Another Question

I got such a good response from that question, I'll try another. Why do you post stories here?
implicit in that is the assumption that despite the abuse, what we're doing is worth the effort and vulnerability.
Okay -- tell me why?

Dear Hdbngr,
I don't get many of the "you suck" types, but they're more than offset anyway by nice msgs like the one you sent about one of my stories.
MG

 

[HedbangerSA]

Why post?

Mathgirl,
You deserved the comment - a wonderful little story. I had a nice little downer of a five minutes here - someone just hit my "A Casual Obsession" story (new one that was doing well in Erotic Couplings) with a "1" - I did the math (not as quickly as Mathgirl would have). Knocked me from a 4.79 to a 4.74. ONE VOTE.