Difference between Mind Control/Forced

[OmnislashXX]

So, anyway, I've toyed with a story idea about a witch who's in college and wants to use her "magical abilities" to control people into doing things. On some such occasions, some of those actions might include controlling people into stripping down in public and/or placing extreme desires to engage in fellatio and other forms of sexual acts with complete strangers and/or people they don't even like. Anyhow, there's the question of when or if does it cross the line. So opinions on how people view such stories would help me decide if I'd like to write something like that or not.

 

[MagicaPractica]

I think the difference between mind control and non-consent is that you can't actually force someone to do something they don't want to do through things like hypnotism, you can only help to strip away their inhibitions.

Does that help?

 

[OmnislashXX]

Yes maybe. But what if subconsciously the person is not in control of their own body and it's doing things on it's own even when the person is telling it not to?

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm not Laurel but IMHO the difference is between physical and mental control,. If you're physically compelled to do something, it's NonCon. If the control is via brain waves, it's MC.BTW I detest MC unless there's a cost. If the controller can do anything, so what? But if they suffer from each controlling incident, there's drama. The campus witch should pay for each spell. I'm a big fan of Larry Niven's THE MAGIC RUNS OUT.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

I recently read a Mind Control story that was about a woman with a chip implanted in her brain that could take over her body when it was turned on with a hidden switch in a mole on her back and then given a certain voice command to change her into a slut or a a maid, etc. She was still conscious and felt everything, but her body acted on its own without her being able to control it. The basic idea of this story sounds similar to yours: someone else is controlling your body.

Whether or not you want to leave the thoughts and emotions of the victims intact is up to you. They could panic or try to resist the magic as their body is taken over, or you can go the other route and manipulate the minds instead, making them want to do things they normally wouldn't. The effect could wear off later, when they suddenly realize what they have done (stripped down nude in front of the class, for example). Both are interesting ideas and both are different kinds of mind control. I agree with Hypoxia: if you're physically holding someone down to fuck them or tying them up against their will, it's noncon. Threatening and such also falls in this category. If the victim does stuff without someone physically forcing them it's mind control. No matter if it is a spell, hypnosis, some kind of drug, an implanted chip or whatever.

 

[OmnislashXX]

I'm not Laurel but IMHO the difference is between physical and mental control,. If you're physically compelled to do something, it's NonCon. If the control is via brain waves, it's MC.BTW I detest MC unless there's a cost. If the controller can do anything, so what? But if they suffer from each controlling incident, there's drama. The campus witch should pay for each spell. I'm a big fan of Larry Niven's THE MAGIC RUNS OUT.

LoL, yeah or to quote one Rumplestilkstin in "Once Upon a Time": "All Magic has a Price."

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I learned hypnosis long ago. I learned mind control long ago. Most people confuse the two though each is like the other. In a crisis I use mind control. I use hypnosis to change your mind about something less extreme.

 

[lovecraft68]

I love when people try to justify mind control as not being non consent.

If you have not given consent to do anything then are somehow pushed to, that is still non consent.

If someone is hypnotized, slipped a drug, 'mind controlled' controlled by a magic ring or superpower...then told to do something they would not ordinarily do, guess what? That's non consent.

Example. A guy is 100% straight, a man who is gay has a thing for him and propositions him. He declines. The man then uses a 'magic ring' and tells him to get on his knees and suck him and fuck him well....that's non consent, he is being coerced to do what he would not have done.

If a woman is offered money to be gang banged and says hell no, then slipped a drug that makes her 'willing' and she does it? That's called gang rape.

For any who want to dispute this, look at it this way. If being somehow rendered unable to express you don't want to, is not non consent/rape then....why is date rape a crime?

Every aspect used in mind control would be seen as date rape, as in rape.

I wish to hell that category could at least own what it really is and people could stop pretending its not non consent when it is. MC is "rape light' here.

Its like non alcoholic beer you can write a story where the 'kick' is someone doing something against their will, but it avoids any begging, or pleading or forcing that would make it flat out rapey.

I feel the same way about step-incest. The people writing and reading it half the time are envisioning the real thing, but they want to be able to say "No, even though he is calling her mom and she is saying son they are steps! Its different! Its not incest!" but they want it to be.

Same with MC its the category for people who get off on rape, but can't admit it so they found a gentler version of it to delude themselves.

The other thing I never got about MC is why is it its own category? First off it fits perfectly into Non consent/reluctance and its very small. Its a waste of a category and there are better options that could fill its slot, bi-sexual for example, a category a lot of people have been after for some time.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I love when people try to justify mind control as not being non consent.

If you have not given consent to do anything then are somehow pushed to, that is still non consent.

If someone is hypnotized, slipped a drug, 'mind controlled' controlled by a magic ring or superpower...then told to do something they would not ordinarily do, guess what? That's non consent.

Example. A guy is 100% straight, a man who is gay has a thing for him and propositions him. He declines. The man then uses a 'magic ring' and tells him to get on his knees and suck him and fuck him well....that's non consent, he is being coerced to do what he would not have done.

If a woman is offered money to be gang banged and says hell no, then slipped a drug that makes her 'willing' and she does it? That's called gang rape.

For any who want to dispute this, look at it this way. If being somehow rendered unable to express you don't want to, is not non consent/rape then....why is date rape a crime?

Every aspect used in mind control would be seen as date rape, as in rape.

I wish to hell that category could at least own what it really is and people could stop pretending its not non consent when it is. MC is "rape light' here.

The other thing I never got about MC is why is it its own category? First off it fits perfectly into Non consent/reluctance and its very small. Its a waste of a category and there are better options that could fill its slot, bi-sexual for example, a category a lot of people have been after for some time.

What you miss is how predisposed all of us are to stampede in one direction or another when we hear BOO! Its all the stuff of Industrial Psychology. You totally blow off human nature, and lots of what you moan about comes with us from the factory.

 

[lovecraft68]

What you miss is how predisposed all of us are to stampede in one direction or another when we hear BOO! Its all the stuff of Industrial Psychology. You totally blow off human nature, and lots of what you moan about comes with us from the factory.

Stop playing Dr Phil. We come from the factory with only the very basic package. We need to eat, sleep, be warm, piss and shit. Everything else is installed by degrees through environment and what we're exposed to.

What I was exposed to over a period of time 'installed' the app to have no tolerance for people making excuses to deny what they get off to is abuse. Now if they do, and its only in a fictional sense? That's fine, as long as what happens in your head stays in your head, all is well.

But of all the multitude of kinks out there, rapist fantasy(meaning from the POV of the rapist, not the victim, victim fantasies are entirely different and much more harmless) is the one no one wants to admit what they're really getting off to.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Stop playing Dr Phil. We come from the factory with only the very basic package. We need to eat, sleep, be warm, piss and shit. Everything else is installed by degrees through environment and what we're exposed to.

What I was exposed to over a period of time 'installed' the app to have no tolerance for people making excuses to deny what they get off to is abuse. Now if they do, and its only in a fictional sense? That's fine, as long as what happens in your head stays in your head, all is well.

But of all the multitude of kinks out there, rapist fantasy(meaning from the POV of the rapist, not the victim, victim fantasies are entirely different and much more harmless) is the one no one wants to admit what they're really getting off to.

I am Dr.Phil, silly boy. I spent 8 years in college and humped the trail from 1986 to the end of 2005. Youre the goddamned dilettante, last time I checked. So stick your diss up your ass to keep PILOT company.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

I love when people try to justify mind control as not being non consent.

If you have not given consent to do anything then are somehow pushed to, that is still non consent.

If someone is hypnotized, slipped a drug, 'mind controlled' controlled by a magic ring or superpower...then told to do something they would not ordinarily do, guess what? That's non consent.

Example. A guy is 100% straight, a man who is gay has a thing for him and propositions him. He declines. The man then uses a 'magic ring' and tells him to get on his knees and suck him and fuck him well....that's non consent, he is being coerced to do what he would not have done.

If a woman is offered money to be gang banged and says hell no, then slipped a drug that makes her 'willing' and she does it? That's called gang rape.

For any who want to dispute this, look at it this way. If being somehow rendered unable to express you don't want to, is not non consent/rape then....why is date rape a crime?

Every aspect used in mind control would be seen as date rape, as in rape.

I wish to hell that category could at least own what it really is and people could stop pretending its not non consent when it is. MC is "rape light' here.

Its like non alcoholic beer you can write a story where the 'kick' is someone doing something against their will, but it avoids any begging, or pleading or forcing that would make it flat out rapey.

I feel the same way about step-incest. The people writing and reading it half the time are envisioning the real thing, but they want to be able to say "No, even though he is calling her mom and she is saying son they are steps! Its different! Its not incest!" but they want it to be.

Same with MC its the category for people who get off on rape, but can't admit it so they found a gentler version of it to delude themselves.

The other thing I never got about MC is why is it its own category? First off it fits perfectly into Non consent/reluctance and its very small. Its a waste of a category and there are better options that could fill its slot, bi-sexual for example, a category a lot of people have been after for some time.

I completely agree with you, don't get me wrong. I know that Mind Control is a kind of noncon, I never said it isn't. When I said what is noncon and what is mind control in my previous post, I meant which kind of stories should go in which category. They're both still rape, mind control is just a specific kind that apparently needed its own category.

 

[Hypoxia]

Consent gets tricky -- and there's apparently an audience for rape fantasies, though I haven't gone there and don't intend to. Coercion doesn't turn me on.

I *have* written of a woman's surprising, unexpected public fuck, and a guy being drugged and forced to fuck -- but neither said no. I wrote of voodoo spells (essentially MC) changing people's sexuality. We could consider every early-morning wake-up blowjob as noncon -- he didn't consent to being blown while he was asleep, right? Especially by someone who walked in on him, not a bedmate. (I think I told of an IRL incident there in one of my journal stories.)

On LIT, unlike IRL, noncon and incest are not always rape. Most IRL incest is older males raping younger girls. Most IRL rape is violent abuse. And most IRL murder is messy. Authors writing fantasies of sex & death gloss-over the realities. Cheating fantasies ignore broken families. IR fantasies ignore systemic brutality. All fetish fantasies ignore consequences. Our fantasies are much cleaner than reality.

On LIT, it ain't rape if the victim cums. That's not reality. But the fantasy grabs eyes.

 

[twistedsickmind]

Mind Control

Here is my take on mind control. This is from the prologue to my series, House of Love.

This is Part _ of a story about mind control. But there are no drugs, devices or gimmicks that make it happen. It is about the kind of mind control that happens every day. The kind where people become true believers and no amount of logic or reality can make them see truth. Don't believe it? Then you are not paying attention to the cults, both religious and political.

In this story, a young woman is convinced to do things because a church twists religion to convince her that God wants her to do certain things. IMHO, not too far different than the political hype that wants to herd us all toward a preplanned program designed to give even more power to an elite.

 

[MagicaPractica]

Yes maybe. But what if subconsciously the person is not in control of their own body and it's doing things on it's own even when the person is telling it not to?

Then, to me, that's not mind control but rather body control and therefore nonconsent. These aren't my choice areas so I'm definitely no expert.

I love when people try to justify mind control as not being non consent.

If you have not given consent to do anything then are somehow pushed to, that is still non consent.

If someone is hypnotized, slipped a drug, 'mind controlled' controlled by a magic ring or superpower...then told to do something they would not ordinarily do, guess what? That's non consent.

Example. A guy is 100% straight, a man who is gay has a thing for him and propositions him. He declines. The man then uses a 'magic ring' and tells him to get on his knees and suck him and fuck him well....that's non consent, he is being coerced to do what he would not have done.

If a woman is offered money to be gang banged and says hell no, then slipped a drug that makes her 'willing' and she does it? That's called gang rape.

For any who want to dispute this, look at it this way. If being somehow rendered unable to express you don't want to, is not non consent/rape then....why is date rape a crime?

Every aspect used in mind control would be seen as date rape, as in rape.

I wish to hell that category could at least own what it really is and people could stop pretending its not non consent when it is. MC is "rape light' here.

Its like non alcoholic beer you can write a story where the 'kick' is someone doing something against their will, but it avoids any begging, or pleading or forcing that would make it flat out rapey.

I feel the same way about step-incest. The people writing and reading it half the time are envisioning the real thing, but they want to be able to say "No, even though he is calling her mom and she is saying son they are steps! Its different! Its not incest!" but they want it to be.

Same with MC its the category for people who get off on rape, but can't admit it so they found a gentler version of it to delude themselves.

The other thing I never got about MC is why is it its own category? First off it fits perfectly into Non consent/reluctance and its very small. Its a waste of a category and there are better options that could fill its slot, bi-sexual for example, a category a lot of people have been after for some time.

I can see your point on mind control being non consent but I do think use of a drug takes you over into body control so that is rape.

I think there are degrees on the step-incest thing. If they are treating each other as mother/son, father/daughter then it does cross that but what about relationships that are new and not established? A stepfather who married the mother after the grown stepdaughter had moved out? I don't think it can be lumped all together.

I do think mind control could fit under reluctance but I see a distinct difference between non consent and reluctance. I would really like to see a bisexual category.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Mind control as I understand it and practice it is guided thinking. Stories, films, the news, gossip, advertising, etc.

Non consent is when youre threatened with expulsion for arguing George Washington was white and male.

 

[sr71plt]

To respond to the question the OP asked, I didn't see anything in the description that would prevent the story from being posted to Literotica.

 

[NoJo]

The idea of non-consent in the context of hypnosis assumes that people are of one mind. we're not -- quite often parts of us are in conflict.

Addictions that we try to break through hypnotherapy are a common example of this.

Is smoking a cigarette when "you" REALLY don't want to, non-consent? Is NOT smoking one when you REALLY want to, non-consent? Yes.


Under (skilled) hypnosis, one can have one's mind changed (de-programmed, re-programmed). Here, the "sensible" part of you is helped to overcome the errant side of you (usually the amygdala and hippocampus, the part of you that reasons emotionally) , which has become hijacked (e.g. through drugs) by a rogue program.

Now some people have exhibitionist or other Literotica-style fantasies which they prevent themselves from acting out, because part of their mind has calculated the problems that could ensue (job loss, relationship problems) outweigh the short-term pleasure gained by them. But it's not all that hard to trip this the other way, through drugs or booze, persuasion or coercion. Or, if you're lazy, a magic ring.

When you see me posting here, which I do infrequently, you can be sure I'm battling some Magic Ring or other.


Note that doing something at gunpoint (a pretty clear example of non-consent) is just the same: You've calculated the downside of NOT doing it (getting killed) and the downside of doing it (embarrassment, pain, loss of loved one). But still you have the option of refusing at gunpoint.

 

[Hypoxia]

I recall an old tale of a moonshiner who had just brewed a new, questionable batch. He went to his neighbor with a jug and a shotgun. He pointed the shotgun at the neighbor and said, "Drink it or I'll kill you." The neighbor drank and gagged but swallowed. Then the moonshiner passed him the shotgun and said, "Okay, now make ME drink it."

Some rape fantasy tales could go that way. I force you at gunpoint to do something sexual. Then you force ME at gunpoint to do something, too. A harmless power game, hey? As long as the firearm isn't loaded... Does this happen IRL? I dunno; haven't been there.

No, MC isn't noncon on LIT, doesn't break rape rules. But try this setup: A guy sleeps in a semi-public space -- barracks, hospital ward, open dorm, whatever. He's constantly awakened by strangers blowing him. He doesn't ask for or consent to the BJs. Maybe he's determined enough that he pushes the sucker away before he can cum. Hey, that's pretty funny, hey? But flip it: a woman sleeping similarly often awakes to find strangers suckling her breasts. Not so funny now... Do those setups fall into noncon?

 

[KayceeCharles]

No, MC isn't noncon on LIT, doesn't break rape rules. But try this setup: A guy sleeps in a semi-public space -- barracks, hospital ward, open dorm, whatever. He's constantly awakened by strangers blowing him. He doesn't ask for or consent to the BJs. Maybe he's determined enough that he pushes the sucker away before he can cum. Hey, that's pretty funny, hey? But flip it: a woman sleeping similarly often awakes to find strangers suckling her breasts. Not so funny now... Do those setups fall into noncon?

Now let's throw a monkey wrench in that idea.

What if the guy/gal has, postdormital sleep paralysis a type of narcolepsy. Woke up, but unable to move, and apparently the molesters took that as implied consent. So, relcon? dubcon? or noncon?

 

[sr71plt]

Now let's throw a monkey wrench in that idea.

What if the guy/gal has, postdormital sleep paralysis a type of narcolepsy. Woke up, but unable to move, and apparently the molesters took that as implied consent. So, relcon? dubcon? or noncon?

My most read story here (posted without problem) has one guy asleep during the sex. The saving grace, I imagine, was that it turned out he wasn't really asleep the whole time and clearly enjoyed it.

I think you folks are thinking too hard on this in terms of posting at Literotica.

 

[PervOtaku]

Mind control is not really possible, so already you're in a fantasy or sci-fi setting. But let's say Professor Xavier plants a command in Storm's mind that she is incredibly horny right now and wants his cum in her pussy more than anything else in the world. Is that rape? I think yes and no.

It is not rape under the rules of porn, where rape/non-con is represented by the girl being physically forced while attempting to resist, or being coerced into consent by circumstances like blackmail or threat of violence (i.e. she's not fighting back but she doesn't want the sex either). Since Storm here is acting completely willing and eager, the rape fetish cannot be satisfied.

Is is rape under moral terms and SJW rules, because Storm's desire is not really her own, fucking Charles was not a choice that came from her. If and when the telepathic command wears off and if she retains memory of it, she will probably feel violated much the same as any traditional rape victim would.

The MC fetish is "make her want it and then let her have it", while rape/non-con fetish is "let her have it when she doesn't want it". (Though sometimes, and here at Literotica always, it progresses to the point where she no longer doesn't want it. But that's creating desire by overwhelming her body with pleasure and breaking her will, rather than creating desire by flipping a magic switch in her head.)

 

[Hypoxia]

Mind control is not really possible, so already you're in a fantasy or sci-fi setting.

Let's say MC as envisioned here is likely not possible now -- although intense conditioning seems to induce behavioral changes. Are love-bombing and the Stockholm Syndrome forms of MC? Apparently brain implants can trigger hunger, aggression, and pleasure; can we trigger instant horniness? Ultra-low frequency infrasound can induce feelings of awe, fear, and nausea, so inducing lust isn't far-fetched.

Sumliminal stimuli *do* modify sexual arousal -- but not always for the better. Still, I'd feel safe writing a tale of a couple interacting via computer screens with subliminal sexual images flashed to arouse one or both to rush together for a good fuck. Or a story where an evil sysop flashes images throughout a network to drive all users into fuck-lust.

Of the above, IMHO intense conditioning of a captive, and controlling brain implants not requested by the subject, are rape.