Deportation without chance to plead case in court

[Guest]

Re: Re: Productive ideas?

How about you and I cuddle for a bit and talk about our feelings?

I don't think so.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Productive ideas?

 

[rjohns86us]

darn, you mean INS and Border Patrol can acutally catch someone in this country illegally, and deport them right away? the shame of it all...catching a criminal and one who is not a citizen of this country and sending them home! What an idea! Here's hoping they catch a few hundred today....even if they have to lease a bus to truck em back to the border!

The Bush administration is horribly xenophobic:

First it says it has the right to demand foreign visitors here to put their fingerprints on file and be able to track where they are at all times.

Second, it says that the police can have the power to act as immigration agents whenever asked to do so, picking up "illegal" people.

Then it encourages police to pull over cars based on racial profiling.

The other day it was announced (notice use of passive voice--it's purposeful) that the government will give much needed money to hospitals, but only if those hosptials agree to question their emergency care patients about their legal status and show proof of their citizenship *cringe* While the article below attempts to make this look like a good decision (e.g. people will not have to wait over a year or more in jail [not "detention centers" as the article states] while their cases are pending) this is NOT the way to fix the problem.

Deporting people without allowing them to put their case before a judge is unjust. This new rule isn't going to be for the benefit of "illegal" . It's for the benefit of the government. It exerts power over the population in oppressive ways and instills fear. This is what we have under the bush administration so far: Hospitals are not safe (because you could be taken away and held in prison waiting for deportation), policemen are not safe (as they could have the authority to deport you--so if you're non-white you better not call them when you're in trouble unless you want to run the risk of deportation).

And now today is the latest: Border patrol agents (along both the Mexican and Canadian borders) are to have the power to deport "illegal aliens". But worse than that, they will have the power to do so WITHOUT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR CASE BEFORE A JUDGE! This means that not only will "illegal" people get picked up, but I'm sure legal residents, citizens, and others who are racially profiled will be at risk of being deported. And this is all "being done" (more passive voice) under the excuse of "protecting us" from terrorists Nice, huh?

Another Nazi Germany on its way?

U.S. to Give Border Patrol Agents the Power to Deport Illegal Aliens
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

Published: August 11, 2004

WASHINGTON, Aug. 10 - Citing concerns about terrorists crossing the nation's borders, the Department of Homeland Security said on Tuesday that it planned to give border patrol agents sweeping new powers to deport illegal aliens from the frontiers with Mexico and Canada [i[without[/i]providing them the opportunity to make their case before an immigration judge.

The move, which will take effect this month, represents a broad expansion of the authority of the thousands of law enforcement agents who patrol the nation's borders. Until now, border patrol agents typically delivered undocumented immigrants to the custody of the immigration courts, where judges determined whether they should be deported or remain in the United States.

Domestic security officials described the deportation process in immigration courts - which hear asylum claims and other appeals to remain in the country - as sluggish and cumbersome, saying illegal immigrants often wait for more than a year before being deported while straining the capacity of detention centers and draining critical resources. Under the new system, immigrants will typically be deported within eight days of their apprehension, officials said.

The Illegal Immigration and Reform Responsibility Act of 1996 authorized the agency to deport certain groups of illegal immigrants without judicial oversight, but until now it had permitted only officials at airports and seaports to do so.

The new rule will apply to illegal immigrants caught within 100 miles of the Mexican and Canadian borders who have spent up to 14 days within the United States. Officials said the border agents would not focus on deporting Mexicans and Canadians, who will still, for the most part [WTF??!?], have their cases heard in immigration court. The agents will concentrate instead on immigrants from other countries. In fiscal year 2003, about 37,000 immigrants from countries other than Mexico and Canada - primarily from Central America - were arrested along the Southwest border.

Officials said that the new plan would help deter illegal immigration, speed deportations and address issues of border security.

"There is a concern that as we tighten the security of our ports of entry through our biometric checks that there will be more opportunity or more effort made by terrorists to enter our country through our vast land borders," Asa Hutchinson, the undersecretary for border security at the Department of Homeland Security, said at a news conference.

The decision was hailed by officials who have long complained that the nation's porous borders represent a serious threat to national security. But it prompted a flurry of criticism from advocates for immigrants who feared that the new system lacked adequate safeguards to ensure that people fleeing persecution, Americans lacking paperwork or other travelers with legitimate grounds to be in the United States would not be improperly deported.

Mr. Hutchinson said that border agents would be trained in asylum law and that immigrants who showed a credible fear of persecution would be provided hearings before immigration judges, not returned to hostile governments. "That right," he said of the right to apply for asylum, "is very important."

Homeland security officials said that the training would last for several days and that agents would begin their new duties in Tucson and Laredo, Tex.

Advocates for immigrants said they feared mistakes would be made when hastily trained border agents decide who should be deported and who should not. Complaints about improper deportations have already been reported at some airports and seaports.

"We're very concerned that we may see the mistaken deportations of refugees, citizens and other legitimate visitors," said Eleanor Acer, director of the asylum program of Human Rights First, an advocacy group. "For refugees, it could be a life or death sentence."

The officials also announced plans on Tuesday to allow the roughly seven million Mexicans who carry border crossing cards - which let them visit the United States for three consecutive days - to visit for up to 30 days at a time using the same card.

Mr. Hutchinson said the announcements were part of a two-pronged strategy. "We want to send a clear message that those individuals who follow legal immigration rules will benefit, while those who choose to break our nation's immigration laws will be promptly removed from the U.S.," he said.

Evelyn Nazro, a spokeswoman for the Alliance for Security and Trade, a coalition that represents public officials and business leaders in Texas, described the shift as "a step in the right direction."

But Ms. Nazro said that many business executives and public officials would like Mexican visitors to be allowed to stay for six months, as Canadian visitors are. "It's long been a real issue that Mexicans had such limitations on their visas," she said.

Discussions about accelerating deportations along the nation's borders have been held for some time. Tuesday's announcement is the second time that the government has expanded the "expedited removal" process since the Sept. 11 attacks.

In November 2002, the government said it was extending the process of deportations without judicial review for undocumented immigrants at airports to those at seaports.

Officials said that Mexicans were not the focus of the new deportation efforts because most undocumented Mexicans choose to return after being caught. But Mr. Hutchinson said that Mexicans who smuggle immigrants and who repeatedly violate immigration laws would also be subject to the speedy deportations.

In fiscal year 2003, about 43,000 immigrants were swiftly deported without scrutiny from immigration judges. The new rules could nearly double that figure, homeland security statistics suggest.Officials said they would observe Tucson and Laredo, where roughly 3,050 agents will assume their new duties, before applying the process to other border regions. "After we get it going, we'll begin discussions about expanding it," a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security said.

 

[rjohns86us]

Hey, you Indians had a terrible immigration policy...and look where the tribes ended up living, for the most part!

Um, no. I've been a U.S. citizen since birth. I'm as American as it gets: Iroquois Indian. So no, my interest in immigration policy doesn't stem from a self interest.

 

[Don K Dyck]

The Bush administration is horribly xenophobic:

First it says it has the right to demand foreign visitors here to put their fingerprints on file and be able to track where they are at all times.

Second, it says that the police can have the power to act as immigration agents whenever asked to do so, picking up "illegal" people.

Then it encourages police to pull over cars based on racial profiling.

The other day it was announced (notice use of passive voice--it's purposeful) that the government will give much needed money to hospitals, but only if those hosptials agree to question their emergency care patients about their legal status and show proof of their citizenship *cringe* While the article below attempts to make this look like a good decision (e.g. people will not have to wait over a year or more in jail [not "detention centers" as the article states] while their cases are pending) this is NOT the way to fix the problem.

Deporting people without allowing them to put their case before a judge is unjust. This new rule isn't going to be for the benefit of "illegal" . It's for the benefit of the government. It exerts power over the population in oppressive ways and instills fear. This is what we have under the bush administration so far: Hospitals are not safe (because you could be taken away and held in prison waiting for deportation), policemen are not safe (as they could have the authority to deport you--so if you're non-white you better not call them when you're in trouble unless you want to run the risk of deportation).

And now today is the latest: Border patrol agents (along both the Mexican and Canadian borders) are to have the power to deport "illegal aliens". But worse than that, they will have the power to do so WITHOUT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR CASE BEFORE A JUDGE! This means that not only will "illegal" people get picked up, but I'm sure legal residents, citizens, and others who are racially profiled will be at risk of being deported. And this is all "being done" (more passive voice) under the excuse of "protecting us" from terrorists Nice, huh?

Another Nazi Germany on its way?

U.S. to Give Border Patrol Agents the Power to Deport Illegal Aliens
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

Published: August 11, 2004

WASHINGTON, Aug. 10 - Citing concerns about terrorists crossing the nation's borders, the Department of Homeland Security said on Tuesday that it planned to give border patrol agents sweeping new powers to deport illegal aliens from the frontiers with Mexico and Canada [i[without[/i]providing them the opportunity to make their case before an immigration judge.

The move, which will take effect this month, represents a broad expansion of the authority of the thousands of law enforcement agents who patrol the nation's borders. Until now, border patrol agents typically delivered undocumented immigrants to the custody of the immigration courts, where judges determined whether they should be deported or remain in the United States.

Domestic security officials described the deportation process in immigration courts - which hear asylum claims and other appeals to remain in the country - as sluggish and cumbersome, saying illegal immigrants often wait for more than a year before being deported while straining the capacity of detention centers and draining critical resources. Under the new system, immigrants will typically be deported within eight days of their apprehension, officials said.

The Illegal Immigration and Reform Responsibility Act of 1996 authorized the agency to deport certain groups of illegal immigrants without judicial oversight, but until now it had permitted only officials at airports and seaports to do so.

The new rule will apply to illegal immigrants caught within 100 miles of the Mexican and Canadian borders who have spent up to 14 days within the United States. Officials said the border agents would not focus on deporting Mexicans and Canadians, who will still, for the most part [WTF??!?], have their cases heard in immigration court. The agents will concentrate instead on immigrants from other countries. In fiscal year 2003, about 37,000 immigrants from countries other than Mexico and Canada - primarily from Central America - were arrested along the Southwest border.

Officials said that the new plan would help deter illegal immigration, speed deportations and address issues of border security.

"There is a concern that as we tighten the security of our ports of entry through our biometric checks that there will be more opportunity or more effort made by terrorists to enter our country through our vast land borders," Asa Hutchinson, the undersecretary for border security at the Department of Homeland Security, said at a news conference.

The decision was hailed by officials who have long complained that the nation's porous borders represent a serious threat to national security. But it prompted a flurry of criticism from advocates for immigrants who feared that the new system lacked adequate safeguards to ensure that people fleeing persecution, Americans lacking paperwork or other travelers with legitimate grounds to be in the United States would not be improperly deported.

Mr. Hutchinson said that border agents would be trained in asylum law and that immigrants who showed a credible fear of persecution would be provided hearings before immigration judges, not returned to hostile governments. "That right," he said of the right to apply for asylum, "is very important."

Homeland security officials said that the training would last for several days and that agents would begin their new duties in Tucson and Laredo, Tex.

Advocates for immigrants said they feared mistakes would be made when hastily trained border agents decide who should be deported and who should not. Complaints about improper deportations have already been reported at some airports and seaports.

"We're very concerned that we may see the mistaken deportations of refugees, citizens and other legitimate visitors," said Eleanor Acer, director of the asylum program of Human Rights First, an advocacy group. "For refugees, it could be a life or death sentence."

The officials also announced plans on Tuesday to allow the roughly seven million Mexicans who carry border crossing cards - which let them visit the United States for three consecutive days - to visit for up to 30 days at a time using the same card.

Mr. Hutchinson said the announcements were part of a two-pronged strategy. "We want to send a clear message that those individuals who follow legal immigration rules will benefit, while those who choose to break our nation's immigration laws will be promptly removed from the U.S.," he said.

Evelyn Nazro, a spokeswoman for the Alliance for Security and Trade, a coalition that represents public officials and business leaders in Texas, described the shift as "a step in the right direction."

But Ms. Nazro said that many business executives and public officials would like Mexican visitors to be allowed to stay for six months, as Canadian visitors are. "It's long been a real issue that Mexicans had such limitations on their visas," she said.

Discussions about accelerating deportations along the nation's borders have been held for some time. Tuesday's announcement is the second time that the government has expanded the "expedited removal" process since the Sept. 11 attacks.

In November 2002, the government said it was extending the process of deportations without judicial review for undocumented immigrants at airports to those at seaports.

Officials said that Mexicans were not the focus of the new deportation efforts because most undocumented Mexicans choose to return after being caught. But Mr. Hutchinson said that Mexicans who smuggle immigrants and who repeatedly violate immigration laws would also be subject to the speedy deportations.

In fiscal year 2003, about 43,000 immigrants were swiftly deported without scrutiny from immigration judges. The new rules could nearly double that figure, homeland security statistics suggest.Officials said they would observe Tucson and Laredo, where roughly 3,050 agents will assume their new duties, before applying the process to other border regions. "After we get it going, we'll begin discussions about expanding it," a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security said.

Ah ha!! So THIS is where the Oz Prim Monster "Honest" Johnnie Howard got his exclusion of aliens policy from?? The CIA man in his office . . . could have guessed.

At the 2001 Oz Federal election illegal immigrants from the Middle east were the target of Liberal Party hatred. Indeed, it is rumoured that ASIO, the Oz Boy's Own version of the CIA, caused one boat carrying about 300 odd people to sink with the loss of all lives between Indonesia and Oz . . .

Then there was the "Children Overboard" saga of misrepresentation playing on the xenophobic fears held by most European ancestry aussies . . . a ten second television clip claiming to show children drowning as an illegal boat sank. Actually, when you looked closely, and the RAN advised despite the politicians, all the people from the sinking boat were saved, and nobody was at risk of drowning.

 

[Guest]

Hey, you Indians had a terrible immigration policy...and look where the tribes ended up living, for the most part!

You cannot use what Europeans did to us to justify what the U.S. is doing to migrants now. That is fallacious. The colonizers of this region did nothing but try to kill us, push us out, and then isolate us (to put it briefly and nicely). Now this same colonial mindset is bent on exerting the same type of xenophobic power over other groups of people. Europeans and later U.S. citizens screwed the Native Americans, and now the U.S. is trying to screw everyone else, too. How on earth can you even think of using the Native Americans as an example in favor of xenophobic police state policies? If anything, we're an example AGAINST it.

 

[Guest]

Hospitals are not safe (because you could be taken away and held in prison waiting for deportation), policemen are not safe (as they could have the authority to deport you--so if you're non-white you better not call them when you're in trouble unless you want to run the risk of deportation).

Another Nazi Germany on its way?

I see it this way- if you act suspicious you should be monitored and possibly deported. To say that the current admin. has turned America into a police state is paranoia. Our borders should be patrolled 24/7.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Deportation without chance to plead case in court

Ah ha!! So THIS is where the Oz Prim Monster "Honest" Johnnie Howard got his exclusion of aliens policy from?? The CIA man in his office . . . could have guessed.

At the 2001 Oz Federal election illegal immigrants from the Middle east were the target of Liberal Party hatred. Indeed, it is rumoured that ASIO, the Oz Boy's Own version of the CIA, caused one boat carrying about 300 odd people to sink with the loss of all lives between Indonesia and Oz . . .

Then there was the "Children Overboard" saga of misrepresentation playing on the xenophobic fears held by most European ancestry aussies . . . a ten second television clip claiming to show children drowning as an illegal boat sank. Actually, when you looked closely, and the RAN advised despite the politicians, all the people from the sinking boat were saved, and nobody was at risk of drowning.

Well you know how it goes: Governments often try to justify unjust policies by claiming said policies are "really for the good of" the targeted group. In this case, the lame justification for extending authority to border patrol and taking away the chance to see a judge is to "spare" the migrants from having to wait in jail for a long time. You see? It's a good thing Nevermind the fact that we could modify laws so that migrants wouldn't have to spend any time in jail, and would still be able to see a judge. But hey, that option just doesn't exist

Similarly, any xenophobic policies your country has are certainly for the good of the immigrants *cough, cough* Just like the U.S., if it were to admit the real purpose of those policies it would look bad, and we all know appearances are everything

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Deportation without chance to plead case in court

I see it this way- if you act suspicious you should be monitored and possibly deported. To say that the current admin. has turned America into a police state is paranoia. Our borders should be patrolled 24/7.

Our borders already are patrolled 24/7. It's been that way for years, and yet 9/11 still happened. This new policy isn't going to help catch terrorists, and neither are many of the other post-9/11 xenophobic policies that are being implemented. Terrorism is just a convenient excuse for this new policies.

 

[Bent]

You don't think it's just a bit dangerous to pick up people and deport them without being able to bring their case before a judge? What if a person is a resident, a citizen, etc? What's to stop them from being deported anyway just on racial profiling? I see a large potential for racism and abuse here. Who ensures that the border patrol people don't just deport any one they feel like deporting, legal or not? at least having a case brought in front of a judge would provide some protection against abuse of authority. But now what kind of protection is there? I'm not sure there is any.

Ok, just so you know...the border patrol doesn't just pick up people and toss them back over the border. They do in fact run their identification, their prints and whatever means necessary to figure out who they are....and THEN they toss their ass over the border.

 

[Guest]

Ok, just so you know...the border patrol doesn't just pick up people and toss them back over the border. They do in fact run their identification, their prints and whatever means necessary to figure out who they are....and THEN they toss their ass over the border.

Yeah, supposedly that's how it works now (although I could tell you some stories otherwise). But with this new policy in place I wonder what will happen. This new policy would give them the ability to deport people directly. No visit with the judge, no guarantee that they aren't abusing their power, etc. Just like police weren't supposed to beat the shit out of Rodney King, the border patrol isn't supposed to abuse its authority. But it can and does happen. And with this new power, acompanied by less ability to check on what patrols are doing, I think there is real cause for concern here. And then I think we should also be asking ourselves the following: Why is this even necessary? What will this accomplish now that is different from what is already being accomplished, and at what risk?

 

[Bent]

Yeah, supposedly that's how it works now (although I could tell you some stories otherwise). But with this new policy in place I wonder what will happen. This new policy would give them the ability to deport people directly. No visit with the judge, no guarantee that they aren't abusing their power, etc. Just like police weren't supposed to beat the shit out of Rodney King, the border patrol isn't supposed to abuse its authority. But it can and does happen. And with this new power, acompanied by less ability to check on what patrols are doing, I think there is real cause for concern here. And then I think we should also be asking ourselves the following: Why is this even necessary? What will this accomplish now that is different from what is already being accomplished, and at what risk?

Have they ever gone before a judge? Ummm no...they are processed at the border. If they have the proper documents, they stay, if they don't they go. It's that simple.

It's necessary because it is. You should come live in California, and see all the fucking illegals living off the welfare system while other people actually hold down jobs to support their asses.

I'm of Mexican descent, and your damn straight I think the illegals should have their asses thrown back over the border.

Do you know how much paperwork and money it takes to be able to come and live here legally? I do. I know what kind of hell it is to wonder, 'Does my husband have to go back to Europe now that the State Department or the INS says they haven't received his papers on time' - not due to any fault of my own but because some dipshit who inprocesses mail has it sitting on their fucking desk...yet, some fucking orange picker can just pay a couple hundred of his bucks and a goat and be smuggled over here and get on welfare.

I support the Border Patrol, and I support our government...I suggest you shit or get off the pot.

 

[LadyG]

I'm not even American and I support your thoughts, Bent.

I agree totally.

 

[Bent]

I'm not even American and I support your thoughts, Bent.

I agree totally.

Thanks, I'm just so sick of this bullshit about how the government should do this, the government should do that, when someone who claims to be a Socialist lives in a non Socialist society.

If X doesn't like it here, there are a crapload of countries out there that still run on Socialist ideals. Have at 'em.

 

[LadyG]

Thanks, I'm just so sick of this bullshit about how the government should do this, the government should do that, when someone who claims to be a Socialist lives in a non Socialist society.

If X doesn't like it here, there are a crapload of countries out there that still run on Socialist ideals. Have at 'em.

I WISH they would be more stringent here!

Like I said, becoming a citizen of a country is a privilege, NOT a right as some seem to think.

 

[Guest]

Have they ever gone before a judge? Ummm no...they are processed at the border. If they have the proper documents, they stay, if they don't they go. It's that simple.

It's necessary because it is. You should come live in California, and see all the fucking illegals living off the welfare system while other people actually hold down jobs to support their asses.

I'm of Mexican descent, and your damn straight I think the illegals should have their asses thrown back over the border.

Do you know how much paperwork and money it takes to be able to come and live here legally? I do. I know what kind of hell it is to wonder, 'Does my husband have to go back to Europe now that the State Department or the INS says they haven't received his papers on time' - not due to any fault of my own but because some dipshit who inprocesses mail has it sitting on their fucking desk...yet, some fucking orange picker can just pay a couple hundred of his bucks and a goat and be smuggled over here and get on welfare.

I support the Border Patrol, and I support our government...I suggest you shit or get off the pot.

Um, yes, they DO get to see a judge. Now, if they don't want to see a judge then of course they don't. But as things are now, they do have the right to see a judge. And many of them spend months, even years in prison waiting for their case to come before a judge.

Your orange picker example is flawed. He doesn't pay a couple of hundred. THe usual price is now up to 2,000 U.S. dollars, depending upon how far he wants to be taken once inside the U.S. He doesn't just get smuggled over, either. He has to risk his life to wander through the desert, or hide in the back of some truck. Many people die trying to get here. And once here he does NOT go on welfare. He's hardly applicable to do that! He typically works his ass off, living in highly substandard, dangerous housing, being exposed to pesticides and herbicides and dangerous working conditions, and making very little pay. And yet the U.S. makes one heck of a profit off of such people. The gains are astounding. We're actually benefitting off of this. This is not a loss to our country at all. It's a huge gain. And the policies the U.S. are implementing are policies to maintain and even increase the gain it receives by exploiting and scaring such people.

Think hard about what would happen if all the illegal workers were shipped out of here. I guarantee you the economy would change. There would be a huge need to fill a lot of jobs that U.S. citizens aren't willing to take. Prices would go up on produce and meat. And we'd still be taxed as much as we've ever been.

"It's necessary because it is"???? That's a scary attitude to take!

I talk to "illegal" Mexicans all the time. Very few of them come here with the intention of staying, and very few decide to stay after getting here. Most plan to work here and then get the hell out. They don't like it here. But they come out of necessity, just to work. How much easier it would be to just provide temp. work visas for these guys than to waste time and money messing around with increased border patrol issues.

 

[Bent]

Um, yes, they DO get to see a judge. Now, if they don't want to see a judge then of course they don't. But as things are now, they do have the right to see a judge. And many of them spend months, even years in prison waiting for their case to come before a judge.

Your orange picker example is flawed. He doesn't pay a couple of hundred. THe usual price is now up to 2,000 U.S. dollars, depending upon how far he wants to be taken once inside the U.S. He doesn't just get smuggled over, either. He has to risk his life to wander through the desert, or hide in the back of some truck. Many people die trying to get here. And once here he does NOT go on welfare. He's hardly applicable to do that! He typically works his ass off, living in highly substandard, dangerous housing, being exposed to pesticides and herbicides and dangerous working conditions, and making very little pay. And yet the U.S. makes one heck of a profit off of such people. The gains are astounding. We're actually benefitting off of this. This is not a loss to our country at all. It's a huge gain. And the policies the U.S. are implementing are policies to maintain and even increase the gain it receives by exploiting and scaring such people.

Think hard about what would happen if all the illegal workers were shipped out of here. I guarantee you the economy would change. There would be a huge need to fill a lot of jobs that U.S. citizens aren't willing to take. Prices would go up on produce and meat. And we'd still be taxed as much as we've ever been.

"It's necessary because it is"???? That's a scary attitude to take!

I talk to "illegal" Mexicans all the time. Very few of them come here with the intention of staying, and very few decide to stay after getting here. Most plan to work here and then get the hell out. They don't like it here. But they come out of necessity, just to work. How much easier it would be to just provide temp. work visas for these guys than to waste time and money messing around with increased border patrol issues.

I don't give a flying fuck if they pay one million to come over here. You are supporting illegal activities and they SHOULD BE SENT BACK! If they are in prison (yeah whatever, as if), then they deserve it because they broke the law. Period!

And trust me, I know a great deal about illegals in this country and I sure as hell know what they do to get here and what they do once they are here, and yes, they do get on welfare with ILLEGAL documentation...stolen social security numbers and the like.

I worked for the INS dear.

 

[Guest]

Thanks, I'm just so sick of this bullshit about how the government should do this, the government should do that, when someone who claims to be a Socialist lives in a non Socialist society.

If X doesn't like it here, there are a crapload of countries out there that still run on Socialist ideals. Have at 'em.

See, I don't think you understand my position here. I don't think people should be treated like crap and have their rights violated. I don't think people should be exploited. And I certainly don't think government should have the power to terrorize and victimize people. I like America. I just hate the way things are going right now. I'm as patriotic as the next person because I CARE about what this country does, and what happens to the people here. As such, whenever I see something I don't like, I prefer to work toward making it better rather than abandoning the whole country and going elsewhere. Now THAT would be unpatriotic--leaving just because I don't like something. Imagine the state of things if everyone did that! I desire this country to be a good place, so I work towards that. I feel that taking away people's possibility of having their case reviewed by a judge is DANGEROUS. It's not just dangerous for illegal people, but also legal people who may be apprehended as well. As you are only concerned about legal people then I would think you'd be concerned about this. What if you your spouse were within 100 miles of the border, and a border patrol agent decided to pick you both up and deport you, even though you're legal? You wouldn't be able to see a judge to argue your case. It would be bad, to say the least.

 

[Guest]

I don't give a flying fuck if they pay one million to come over here. You are supporting illegal activities and they SHOULD BE SENT BACK! If they are in prison (yeah whatever, as if), then they deserve it because they broke the law. Period!

And trust me, I know a great deal about illegals in this country and I sure as hell know what they do to get here and what they do once they are here, and yes, they do get on welfare with ILLEGAL documentation...stolen social security numbers and the like.

I worked for the INS dear.

Actually, ultimately it is the government that supports illegal activities by not making temp. work visas available for agricultural workers, as one example. No one here wants to take those jobs, but we desperately need people to fill them. The government knows this. So why not give workers permission to be here legally while filling those jobs? Why? Because then worker safety standards, fair pay, and everything else would have to enforced. And why bother when you can make the population of workers vulnerable so that they can be exploited ? The labor is cheaper that way. It's sick, but that's how it works.

You worked for the INS and you don't know the people are held in PRISON before getting deported or waiting to have their case put in front of a judge? Are you serious???!??? Come on! how could you NOT know this? Seriously, I want to know. Have you never even heard of the more famous cases, such as the Chinese refugees who arrived by boat and were held in prison for years waiting for their cases to come before a judge? Have you never heard prisons bitch about having to put on entire new wings just to hold people waiting to have their cases reviewed, or about lack of space due to all the migrants they're housing? Take a look at the prisons in Florida. You'll be surprised.

 

[Bent]

See, I don't think you understand my position here. I don't think people should be treated like crap and have their rights violated. I don't think people should be exploited. And I certainly don't think government should have the power to terrorize and victimize people. I like America. I just hate the way things are going right now. I'm as patriotic as the next person because I CARE about what this country does, and what happens to the people here. As such, whenever I see something I don't like, I prefer to work toward making it better rather than abandoning the whole country and going elsewhere. Now THAT would be unpatriotic--leaving just because I don't like something. Imagine the state of things if everyone did that! I desire this country to be a good place, so I work towards that. I feel that taking away people's possibility of having their case reviewed by a judge is DANGEROUS. It's not just dangerous for illegal people, but also legal people who may be apprehended as well. As you are only concerned about legal people then I would think you'd be concerned about this. What if you your spouse were within 100 miles of the border, and a border patrol agent decided to pick you both up and deport you, even though you're legal? You wouldn't be able to see a judge to argue your case. It would be bad, to say the least.

If you care about this country, you would care that these people are coming over illegally. And, for the record, they have no rights as they aren't US citizens, and again, have broken the law. Why would we give rights to someone who shows absolute disregard for the laws of our country? That is just ignorant...sorry, it just is.

If I were picked up by the border patrol, I would contact my brother who is a border patrol agent...and don't forget, LEGAL immigrants have to carry their green card with them, and other documentation. If they can't follow something as simple as 'don't leave home without it', then they are too stupid to be here.

If they file for legal status, they ARE fingerprinted, so really, there is almost (leaving room for error) no chance that they would ever be picked up and sent back.

You are implying that the border patrol just up and gathers whomever they deem unworthy, that isn't so. Your misleading comments in regard to the government agencies is dangerous to say the least. Imagine if someone actually believed what you are saying.

If you are wanting to right a wrong in the US, write your congressmen, hell, become one! Run for President! Doing it on a porn board isn't bringing about change...at all.

 

[Bent]

Actually, ultimately it is the government that supports illegal activities by not making temp. work visas available for agricultural workers, as one example. No one here wants to take those jobs, but we desperately need people to fill them. The government knows this. So why not give workers permission to be here legally while filling those jobs? Why? Because then worker safety standards, fair pay, and everything else would have to enforced. And why bother when you can make the population of workers vulnerable so that they can be exploited ? The labor is cheaper that way. It's sick, but that's how it works.

You worked for the INS and you don't know the people are held in PRISON before getting deported or waiting to have their case put in front of a judge? Are you serious???!??? Come on! how could you NOT know this? Seriously, I want to know. Have you never even heard of the more famous cases, such as the Chinese refugees who arrived by boat and were held in prison for years waiting for their cases to come before a judge? Have you never heard prisons bitch about having to put on entire new wings just to hold people waiting to have their cases reviewed, or about lack of space due to all the migrants they're housing? Take a look at the prisons in Florida. You'll be surprised.

You implied on the prison statement that ALL people picked up are sent to prison...really, how could YOU not see that?

Now to the issue at hand...you say that they pay thousands, fine, whatever...so why can't they pay those thousands into coming over here legally? God knows they have enough relatives over here that someone could sponsor them.

They can even file the paperwork and pay the fees for a work visa once they get over here, by filing a change of status. It is a long, but simple and yet expensive process.

2 grand you say...send that to the INS and the State Department and come over here legally. I will NEVER support illegal activity of any kind, I could care less where the people come from.

 

[love2teaseu]

I don't give a flying fuck if they pay one million to come over here. You are supporting illegal activities and they SHOULD BE SENT BACK! If they are in prison (yeah whatever, as if), then they deserve it because they broke the law. Period!

And trust me, I know a great deal about illegals in this country and I sure as hell know what they do to get here and what they do once they are here, and yes, they do get on welfare with ILLEGAL documentation...stolen social security numbers and the like.

I worked for the INS dear.

In my hometown, we have groups of them that run scams. My Ins agent and a police officer I know told me about a specific group of illegals here that try to cause you to hit them. Then they beg you not to call the police, say they will pay for damage and get your phone number. Then they start calling making demands for cash b/c they are hurt.

One of them tried this on me, but I made such a stink about it they gave up.

 

[AStranger2004]

If you care about this country, you would care that these people are coming over.....

A highly selective quotation I know, Bent, and I offer this only as a passing observation, but it seems to me ironic that a nation entirely founded on immigration should have such a knee-jerk reaction against immigrants.

I can't comment on your situation, but I can tell you from my knowledge of European, African and Australasian migration, that economically, where freedom of migration has been allowed, it has been beneficial, and where it has been denied, the grounds for that denial are racial/xenophobic rather than economc.

Ho hum. Just a thought.

 

[Guest]

If you care about this country, you would care that these people are coming over illegally. And, for the record, they have no rights as they aren't US citizens, and again, have broken the law. Why would we give rights to someone who shows absolute disregard for the laws of our country? That is just ignorant...sorry, it just is.

If I were picked up by the border patrol, I would contact my brother who is a border patrol agent...and don't forget, LEGAL immigrants have to carry their green card with them, and other documentation. If they can't follow something as simple as 'don't leave home without it', then they are too stupid to be here.

If they file for legal status, they ARE fingerprinted, so really, there is almost (leaving room for error) no chance that they would ever be picked up and sent back.

You are implying that the border patrol just up and gathers whomever they deem unworthy, that isn't so. Your misleading comments in regard to the government agencies is dangerous to say the least. Imagine if someone actually believed what you are saying.

If you are wanting to right a wrong in the US, write your congressmen, hell, become one! Run for President! Doing it on a porn board isn't bringing about change...at all.

I hate to tell you this, but if there is a need to fill jobs that u.s. citizens wont' take then it would be logical to allow workers (that is, people coming here solely to work--not to settle) to come here on work visas. That right there would take care of a lot of illegal immigration issues.

I do write my congressman. I also volunteer my time to a non profit organization which works with immigrants and migrants, and I do a fair deal of public speaking, as well as helping inviduals according to my abilities and resources. I'd love to run for political office, but that requires shit loads of money and I don't think many wealthy people would want to back me

As for how the border patrol currently works, what I know is not from working with the INS (as I have never worked with the INS) but from talking to people who have been picked up, or are in jail after having been picked up, or are concerned about being picked up. I've also taken the time to interview a few people whose job it is to look for and pick up illegal people, and found what they've said to be quite interesting.

I, too, have a family member going through the immigration process as we speak. It's been quite a few years, and he is still going through the process. Even though he came here legally and has done all the paperwork and paid all the fees correctly, he is still concerned. Why? Because of how he looks. He has been racially profiled so many times now it's scary. He gets stopped while driving because of how he looks. He gets stopped in airports, at bus counters, and even a few times going to the freaking grocery store. And when he gets stopped he shows his green card. But his green card is out of date because immigration is backed up with paperwork. So then he has to show the letter of extension, and often people are suspicious of that and doubt its authenticity. So then he ends up at some station, waiting around a half hour or more until someone can get a check on that letter. And while this goes on he's often threatened and made fun of. Naturally, I'm against this type of thing for how it affects him and people like him. But I'm also against it because it wastes a lot of time and effort on the part of people who spend their time chasing, questioning, and pushing paperwork checks on people who aren't illegal at all. The system is not working. It's highly inefficient. And one of the things I think would help this system (for everyone concerned) is if temporary work visas were available for people coming here to do agricultural labor. In fact, I think that would cut immigration's work load by a third, if not more.

Bent, I don't hate you for disagreeing with my viewpoints on this issue. I would hope you'd extend the same respect to me in that way.

 

[love2teaseu]

Actually, ultimately it is the government that supports illegal activities by not making temp. work visas available for agricultural workers, as one example.

That is the same as saying that when someone rear ends me it is my fault for owning a car.