Deportation without chance to plead case in court

[WARMACHINE]

Don't be thick.

Saying this to O'Henry (or whatever the fuck her name is now) is like telling her not to breathe. Don't forget, its also all your fucking fault too and you should feel guilty about it.

 

[Ishmael]

I will name this thread "Bantering with an Idiot."

This is just another LT alt folks. Albeit one with grandiose pretenses. But then again, most of his alts have those pretenses.

Ishmael

 

[Guest]

So it's murder if we protect our lands? I suppose we don't have a right to defend our country because these people have a right to 'invade' ours? That's what it amounts to...if they aren't here legally, then their purpose is for illegal behavior, and I say we have a right to protect ourselves from that.

It's murder anytime you intentionally kill someone.

You say we're protecting our country, but from what? I already told you that all the produce companies LOVE illegal workers. Our economy hugely benefits from them. They are a huge source of cheap labor. Shall we stop exploiting them and crack down on the produce and meat companies who hire them? Shall we make it so that no one will hire them here by enforcing our own laws against hiring illegal people that we seem to often ignore? That would keep them from coming here. No jobs=no reason to come here. But you know why we don't do it that way? BECAUSE WE NEED THEM TO DO THE JOBS THAT WE ARE NOT WILLING TO DO. Produce companies, meat companies, and others profit off of illegal labor. But hey, better to shoot the illegal workers than actually enforce our own laws with the employers, right? We're just protecting our country from needed workers, right?

THEY COME HERE TO WORK. They do NOT come here to "take over". Just as the Irish came here to work, Eastern Europeans came here to work, etc. All were hated, all feared because people thought they would "take over" and guess what? The fears were unfounded. Mexicans just want to work here and leave. They hate it here, and is it any wonder why, with people like you around?

Yeah Bent, let's just protect ourselves from all these people who are seeking employment. By golly, employment seekers are so fucking dangerous! Oh, run away before they provide you with cheap produce!

Are they terrorists? Not in the modern day definition, no. But some of us have actually lived amonst these people, and have seen them murder other people, do their stupid little catcall to CHILDREN, and beat the shit out of their own just because it suits them. Sorry, I feel no pity for people like that.

WAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yeah, poor people who come here in order to work harvesting crops are so scary, and are "sort of" terrorists. Sure, whatever.

You know, you make them sound like Martians: "some of us have actually lived amongst them." Please! They're from this planet too, you know. And yeah, I've lived "amongst them" too--both here and in Mexico. And you know what I found? I found that some of them are nice and some of them are assholes, just like people everywhere.

As for being murderers, child molesters, wife beaters, etc, I can certainly say that many WHITE AMERICANS also fall under those categories. In case you didn't know, there are criminals in all groups of people, just as there are good people in all groups of people. If I were to think like you do, then I'd be scared shitless of white people. You know why? Because I grew up in an area surrounded by them. I "lived amongst" white people. I saw the Klan burning crosses in people's yards. I saw white teenage boys skinning the cat of a black family and leaving it on their doorstep. I know of white people who have raped women, who have beaten wives, who have molested children. And you know what? I don't label all white people as evil and criminal because I have the good sense to know that in every group of people there are all types.

And to compare me to a Nazi is truly reaching. Genocide? Genocide would mean that I would say, 'Line 'em up and shoot 'em all'...I never said that. I said those that come over illegally. Believe what you want of me, I personally could care less. You don't know me, you don't know what I have been through, and you certainly don't know what I have witnessed these people doing. For you to defend law breakers, of all sorts, instead of defending your country and standing by your people is more disgraceful than anything I could ever say.

You claim to be Native American, yet you are so ready to hand this land over to the Mexicans.

If I have to defend my country at the cost of losing your respect, so be it.

Bent, you ARE proposing genocide. That's even clearer now that you've tried to paint a picture of all Mexicans as criminals and child molesters. You're doing what Hitler did: trying to claim that all people of X group are undesirable because it's somehow in their genes--that somehow, becuase they're Mexican they must be criminals and socially perverted. You are advocated killing them. You feel they are a threat simply because they're not from the U.S. Sure sounds bad to me.

Yeah, maybe you don't want to line them up before you open fire on them, but shooting them one at a time haphazardly doesn't make it any less disgusting of a crime. You're proposing genocide. The white people of this country didn't always line us up when they killed us, but it was still genocide. Does a line or two make that much of a difference to you?

You accuse me of defending law breakers, yet you say nothing about the companies who illegally employ workers who are here without permission. You'd rather shoot the workers who provide cheap labor than arrest the people who hire them for employing illegal workers.

Your stance is very clear.

I'm not handing over this land to anyone. My people never handed it over to your ancestors, either, but you fucking took it. But hey, that's different, right? Anyway, you have nothing to defend this country from regarding Mexican workers. That you'd even find them threatening is hysterically funny and also pathetically sad. Yeah, all those workers are really scary! Imagine, they do the jobs we refuse to do! They aren't as lazy as most of us are! Oh my God! We must defend ourselves!

 

[Guest]

I will name this thread "Bantering with an Idiot."

This is just another LT alt folks. Albeit one with grandiose pretenses. But then again, most of his alts have those pretenses.

Ishmael

Now don't be silly, Fishmeal. I think you know exactly who I am. I'm not an alt at all. I had my name officially changed after putting in a formal request with Laurel.

You know... same AV, same sig line... think about this hard.

 

[Bent]

X, all I saw was *wonk*wonk*wonk*wonk* wonk* Please, find another country to live in. Mexico! Hey, they will take you! I honestly read absolutely nothing of what you wrote, because I've realized that you are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there.
Good luck in fantasy land.

 

[Bent]

I will name this thread "Bantering with an Idiot."

This is just another LT alt folks. Albeit one with grandiose pretenses. But then again, most of his alts have those pretenses.

Ishmael

It's Xtabaay or however you spell it.

 

[Marxist]

I will name this thread "Bantering with an Idiot."

This is just another LT alt folks. Albeit one with grandiose pretenses. But then again, most of his alts have those pretenses.

Ishmael

She's not an alt. of anyone and I do appreciate her contribution to the GB.

But I do believe she's left common sense by the wayside on this one.

 

[Guest]

X, all I saw was *wonk*wonk*wonk*wonk* wonk* Please, find another country to live in. Mexico! Hey, they will take you! I honestly read absolutely nothing of what you wrote, because I've realized that you are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there.
Good luck in fantasy land.

And all I saw was "Le'ts kill all those scary Mexicans--but I'm not a proponent of genocide".


Yeah, you've "even lived amongst them". The horror!

Sure, decline to accept feedback.

Bent, you are a proponent of racism masked under the guise of patriotism. You are a proponent of genocide, again masked under the guise of patriotism. You make me sick.

 

[Guest]

She's not an alt. of anyone and I do appreciate her contribution to the GB.

But I do believe she's left common sense by the wayside on this one.

Well, you have the right to think that. But I seriously hope you're not in favor of shooting all illegal people, and of the mindset that all Mexicans are sexual perverts and criminals, as Bent seems to be. But hey, did you know that as long as you don't line people up before you shoot them that it doesn't constitute genocide?

 

[Bent]

And all I saw was "Le'ts kill all those scary Mexicans--but I'm not a proponent of genocide".


Yeah, you've "even lived amongst them". The horror!

Sure, decline to accept feedback.

Bent, you are a proponent of racism masked under the guise of patriotism. You are a proponent of genocide, again masked under the guise of patriotism. You make me sick.

Genius....I am of Mexican descent..or did you miss that? You really need to look up 'genocide'...it might help you understand a bit more of what you are saying. I don't accept your feedback because it went from actual discussion to a temper tantrum, and I don't play with people that behave that way, sorry, that's just how I am.

 

[Marxist]

Well, you have the right to think that. But I seriously hope you're not in favor of shooting all illegal people, and of the mindset that all Mexicans are sexual perverts and criminals, as Bent seems to be. But hey, did you know that as long as you don't line people up before you shoot them that it doesn't constitute genocide?

Declared illegals (people that know that they aren't citizens of this country) have rights in America. They just don't have the right to stay unless we want them to. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Guest]

Genius....I am of Mexican descent..or did you miss that? You really need to look up 'genocide'...it might help you understand a bit more of what you are saying. I don't accept your feedback because it went from actual discussion to a temper tantrum, and I don't play with people that behave that way, sorry, that's just how I am.

Then what the fuck is the deal with you talking about "I've actually lived amongst them" and painting them as scary bogeymen?

No, I know what you said. You said all illegals shoudl be shot. You also expressed a deep hatred of Mexicans, in particular. And then you tried to say that shooting people isn't murder. But hey, you don't play that way, huh?

 

[Bent]

Well, you have the right to think that. But I seriously hope you're not in favor of shooting all illegal people, and of the mindset that all Mexicans are sexual perverts and criminals, as Bent seems to be. But hey, did you know that as long as you don't line people up before you shoot them that it doesn't constitute genocide?

Don't twist my words X, I said those coming over illegally....I did not say shoot all illegal people....imagine this if you will...you have illegals here already...send those people back....now, imagine a border patrol agent at the border, there are people crossing....he tells them to stop and head back...they won't they continue on, despite his order...THAT'S when he needs to shoot...do you not see the hostility in that?

You are just being stupid with your last comment, and this is why people don't take you seriously....I did for a bit, now I just think you are off your rocker.

Someone said you are a part of the problem not the solution, and I can definately see that now.

 

[Bent]

Then what the fuck is the deal with you talking about "I've actually lived amongst them" and painting them as scary bogeymen?

No, I know what you said. You said all illegals shoudl be shot. You also expressed a deep hatred of Mexicans, in particular. And then you tried to say that shooting people isn't murder. But hey, you don't play that way, huh?

No I didn't X, and I gave you examples of my experiences with Mexicans...illegal Mexicans. This is why your sort of thinking is a danger to our society...you read what you want to read, twist it to support your cause or to attempt to mudsling someone else...hey, you could be in politics afterall!

 

[Guest]

Don't twist my words X, I said those coming over illegally....I did not say shoot all illegal people....imagine this if you will...you have illegals here already...send those people back....now, imagine a border patrol agent at the border, there are people crossing....he tells them to stop and head back...they won't they continue on, despite his order...THAT'S when he needs to shoot...do you not see the hostility in that?

You are just being stupid with your last comment, and this is why people don't take you seriously....I did for a bit, now I just think you are off your rocker.

Someone said you are a part of the problem not the solution, and I can definately see that now.

No, I'm not twisting yoru words one bit. You just don't like the way your words make you look. That's not my problem. I am sorry to do this, but I can't stand your xenophobic crap anymore. So I am putting you on ignore.

Hope you have fun with all those scary Mexicans. Just don't get too scared because they can sense fear

Yeah, shooting at people is perfectly okay. Tell me another one, oh violator of human rights.

 

[Guest]

No I didn't X, and I gave you examples of my experiences with Mexicans...illegal Mexicans. This is why your sort of thinking is a danger to our society...you read what you want to read, twist it to support your cause or to attempt to mudsling someone else...hey, you could be in politics afterall!

YEah, and you proposing to shoot people is NOT a danger to society? Good one.

 

[WARMACHINE]

So I am putting you on ignore.

LOL at ignore. You say something I don't agree with, so I'll put you on ignore. What a chicken shit.

 

[Bent]

No, I'm not twisting yoru words one bit. You just don't like the way your words make you look. That's not my problem. I am sorry to do this, but I can't stand your xenophobic crap anymore. So I am putting you on ignore.

Hope you have fun with all those scary Mexicans. Just don't get too scared because they can sense fear

Yeah, shooting at people is perfectly okay. Tell me another one, oh violator of human rights.

No X, again you're wrong. Don't presume to know what is going on in my head or what my beliefs are, because you don't. Put me on ignore, that's what you're good at, ignoring the actual problem and blaming someone else for it. Again, Mexico will be glad to have you.

 

[Bent]

YEah, and you proposing to shoot people is NOT a danger to society? Good one.

You are supposed to be ignoring me right about now.

 

[Bent]

LOL at ignore. You say something I don't agree with, so I'll put you on ignore. What a chicken shit.

I don't believe I'm wrong in what I'm saying WARMACHINE. It may be harsh, but we have a right to keep people off our lands. It's the same concept as any one of us shooting an intruder...if that intruder doesn't leave when told, what else is their purpose here other than to harm? I don't understand how she can't see it. *shrug* Maybe we need to rewrite the entire Constitution to support the cause of the poor Mexican who has no money to feed his family but has the money to break the laws in our country.

 

[WARMACHINE]

I don't believe I'm wrong in what I'm saying WARMACHINE. It may be harsh, but we have a right to keep people off our lands. It's the same concept as any one of us shooting an intruder...if that intruder doesn't leave when told, what else is their purpose here other than to harm? I don't understand how she can't see it. *shrug* Maybe we need to rewrite the entire Constitution to support the cause of the poor Mexican who has no money to feed his family but has the money to break the laws in our country.

Go read her posts. It's all about living in fantasy-land for this nutcase. Whose fault is it that the Mexicans come here? Well hell, it's our fault, because we are "too lazy" to work in the produce fields. Whose fault is it that we don't have 100% free health care for every Tom, Dick and Harry that walks in off the street, well hell thats the government's fault. Whose fault is it that the indians got their asses kicked eight ways from Sunday and got their land taken, hell its my fault. The list goes on and on and on with her. No one is to blame but the other guy.

Why is it that O'Henry is a socialist and advocates all of this radical thought you say? it's because under the current system she (or IT, as the case may be) is a failure. I'd bet she is the classic penniless radical. And what better to do when you are failure but cry, blame other people and then demand that the rules of the entire system be changed so that you can have some dignity and not feel like a beauty school dropout . I find it all interesting to say the least.

 

[Don K Dyck]

You're right-- it's not the car thing. I don't make the mistake of blaming the vehicle for the wreck which the driver creates

"Articulate, suave and good mannered beaus" sounds nice I don't suppose you'd consider applying? And hey, I don't require paperwork or fees, fingerprinting or photographing. And I don't even descriminate against you economically or phenotypically. And I certainly wouldn't work you to death and/or toss you out when I'm finished
(and I don't plan to profit off of you either)

Oh, I see . . . you just want my body . . . . . . these socialists . . . all they want is to share their things . . .

 

[Don K Dyck]

I'm not going to go back and read all I missed, because frankly I already said my piece, however...what you are proposing is that

1) It's our fault for what goes on in Mexico, that they are poor because of us...that's bullshit

Please, go read your Mexican history. After the Spanish were chased out, Americans replaced them as the main manipulators of government policy. That situation remains today.

2) You are also saying that it is our fault that they choose to go the illegal route as opposed to the legal route of coming over...which I can't see since they are offered visas just like any other country

Have you tried to get a green card in the lottery?

There are companies, even here in Oz who claim to be able to get a green card without any hassles. No doubt this is the case, somebody will be making a good ole entrepreneurial dollar somewhere. But legitimate applicants have a better chance of winning a US State lottery.

3) They are too poor to feed their families yet they can afford the 2 grand per head to be smuggled over NUMEROUS times...still makes no sense

AmeriKKKan BIG Pharma ensures that the cost of contraceptives is more than poor Mexicans can afford.

The money paid to people smugglers is very frequently borrowed from usurous money lenders or criminal loan sharks. The interest rates would put the Mafia to shame. The families guarantee the loan to give themselves half a chance at realising the American Dream that is beamed into their television sets every night as cultural imperialism.

4) That we should just allow these people full reign in our country because they want to be here...or is it that they don't want to be here?

No. You should give them the legal rights that they are due under international treaties. Oops!! I forgot!! The appointed regime in the White House just ignores the international treaties that don't coincide with their policies or hinder their corporate mates exploiting the people.

5) That no one would pick the fruit except a stupid Mexican...because yes, that's what it boils down to, that they are too stupid to realize that 'Hey, my entire family was wiped out crossing over but those gringos need their crops cleared'

Well, you cannot have American WASPs picking fruit when their education system has prepared them for a "better" life. That would make a lie of the American Dream.

6) That the US economy would fail without the Mexicans...seeing how Mexico is a such a rich country because of all the Mexicans, I can see your point *sarcasm*

That is unlikely. THe American economy is now in dire straits thanks to the Iraq Occupation costing all American Taxpayers over $us 1 BILLION PER WEEK to provide picquet duty for the AmeriKKKan oil corporations ripping off Iraqi oil and given an exemption from paying tax in the Us on profits made in Iraq.

THAT is why oil prices are rising through the roof.

Another disaster brought to you by the Texas Fundamentalist Christian appointed regime in the White House. All their own doing. They cannot revise the blame onto Cllinton.

7) That the US is full of lazy assed white people who won't take care of their own and would rather dangle a juicy piece of meat in front of the stupid Mexican so that the white man can sit on his ass...wrong again...I know plenty of farmer's who don't even use Mexicans to pick their fruit....it's their FAMILY that helps out, just like in the old days before all this immigration shit

Only a small number. There are far too many good Americans living the American Nightmare rather than the American Dream in the world's richest country.

8) Screw the fact that we have laws, because the Mexicans have a right to come over here illegally...that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

9) That these illegals should be afforded the same opportunities as those that come over legally because we need our fruit picked...bogus

Remember the story from Nazi Germany? . . .

They came for the idiots and gypsies . . .
. . . and I remained silent when they were taken away.

They came for the Jews . . .
. . . and I said nothing.

They came for the "traitors" . . .
. . . my neighbours of 20 years who had disagreed about the camps in front of their children. I remained silent.

Then they came for me . . .
. . . and laughed when I said that I was protected by the law.

There was no law. The Fuehrer was the law.

10) We are responsible for all evil and they shouldn't be held accountable for their stupidity...riiiiiiiiight

Well, yes actually . . . the US government and AmeriKKKan corporations have been interfering in Mexican politics since before the Alamo.

How about the Mexicans do this...stay on their side of that line, actually go to school instead of having child after child, become productive members of THEIR society, bring about change in their government, and their police force, and pull Mexico out of it's less than third world status it holds now.

Now that NAFTA is operating, you are seeing the transfer of American jobs from continental USA to Mexico where workers slave for longer hours, for lower pay and fewer benefits in much more dangerous conditions with fewer safeguards.

But the profits still flow back to NY and are reported as American profits, even though they are produced in other countries.

Well . . . ya gotta make a profit somehow out of the illegals . . .

I'm so fucking sick of having to press one for English, I am so sick of seeing fucking billboards in Spanish, I am so sick that English is vastly becoming the second language, I am so sick of seeing a line full of Mexicans at the welfare office when I drive by in my BMW, I am so sick of seeing half a fucking grocery store dedicated to Mexican food, I am so sick that the United States of America is turning into the United States of Mexico.

A very good expression of ill-informed bigotry, Bent . . .

But get used to it. The Latinos and Hispanics are the fastest growing segments in the national population. Why are you so upset by this continuation of an immigration policy that took WASPs from religious persecution in Europe to the freedom of the new world?

What's the argument gonna be if they do open the borders which they won't...that we want them to serve in our Armed Forces, pay taxes, and vote?

Why not? Every other Hispanic and Latino is able to apply for military service. If the appointed regime in the White House is returned in November 2004, then you will most probably see the return of the draft . . . and WASPs are very hesitant about military service in hot war zones . . . they much prefer the white working class and other racial groups provide the bodies for the profits to AmeriKKKan corporations.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Owera,

I assume that you've visited other countries. If you're a visitor in almost any country in the world, they have the right to deport you immediately, no ifs ands or buts. You're a guest. It's just like being in your neighbor's living room. He can tell you to leave without hearing why you should be allowed to stay.

Don't be thick.

No one has a right to stay in America that isn't an American citizen. Sorry.

Marxist, do you have a passport. Have you travelled outside continental USA?

Marxist, you are wrong about deportation. In English common law countries, which currently escludes the U$ under the Patriot and Home Defence Acts, a government may not deport you without a legal reason. The government decison may be challenged up the court system to the High Court of Australia, the US Supreme Court equivalent.

THAT was why the Oz Howard conservative government made immigration exclusion zones around Oz. It is the same in other common law countries but at present excluding the USA under the appointed regime in the White House.

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Stick the national guard on the border. Send them back after checking ID papers (if they bring any along). Anyone caught coming across illegally 3 times gets thrown in jail or a detention center for 5-10 years. Catch the people who are charging and leading these people across and throw them in jail for 10-20 years. Anyone resisting the orders of the National Guard and Border Patrol agents will be given 3 verbal warnings to cease and desist. If they continue to run whatever force is deemed necessary to stop them from fleeing shall be enacted.

Problem solved. Those creepy and oh so bad corporations will have to start offering jobs to the people in Mexico thereby granting them the legal access to work in this country.