Defining Love

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Living vs. Existing

Geesh...you nailed that. Existing is not living.
I love this thread!

Well, you're part of it now

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Living vs. Existing

Geesh...you nailed that. Existing is not living.
I love this thread!

Glad you like the thread.

If I read you correctly, MT, what you feel for and with your mate is substantially less than the profound, life-altering complex of emotions you felt when you were first together. This is a natural stage in a long-term relationship and may well be what you're experiencing - at least insofar as you've described it and I've interpreted your description.

My question of you is this: is there some barrier to rekindling the fire in this relationship? By barrier I mean some emotional hurdle that you prefer to not attempt. If your partner cheated on you a number of years ago and you've not yet forgiven her, that might be enough to create such a hurdle. In the absence of such a barrier, I'm wondering why you express such concern that you might go to your grave with an unfulfilled heart.

Now, what I've posed here is a deeply personal question and I have no expectation that you will answer it here publicly, but if I were in the same situation this is what I would be asking of myself.

 

[DLL]

Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Originally posted by midwestyankee
Glad you like the thread.

If I read you correctly, MT, what you feel for and with your mate is substantially less than the profound, life-altering complex of emotions you felt when you were first together. This is a natural stage in a long-term relationship and may well be what you're experiencing - at least insofar as you've described it and I've interpreted your description.

My question of you is this: is there some barrier to rekindling the fire in this relationship? By barrier I mean some emotional hurdle that you prefer to not attempt. If your partner cheated on you a number of years ago and you've not yet forgiven her, that might be enough to create such a hurdle. In the absence of such a barrier, I'm wondering why you express such concern that you might go to your grave with an unfulfilled heart.

Now, what I've posed here is a deeply personal question and I have no expectation that you will answer it here publicly, but if I were in the same situation this is what I would be asking of myself.

MT..i have a question for you too.....see your pm box

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

MT..i have a question for you too.....see your pm box

Hmmmm
Checked my box...
Sounds like fun.....

 

[luvnhim]

There are times where rekindling doesnt work. Unfortunate, but true. You can be with a person for many years trying and trying to keep that flame burning but it has to be both working at it, not one.
In some cases, you wake up one day and you realize it's gone and there's a void. Not the love, but the being in love.
That's when you know you just exist.
I'm not speaking of MT, just in general, it happens.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

There are times where rekindling doesnt work. Unfortunate, but true. You can be with a person for many years trying and trying to keep that flame burning but it has to be both working at it, not one.
In some cases, you wake up one day and you realize it's gone and there's a void. Not the love, but the being in love.
That's when you know you just exist.
I'm not speaking of MT, just in general, it happens.

God, I like this girl more all the time!!
Thank you

Now to try answer you, Yank.

 

[luvnhim]

Girl? I haven't been called a girl since...since I was a girl!! LOL
Me thinks me like you too!

 

[~Dream~]

I have a different take on contentment. I think contentment and satisfaction are the ultimates of a full life. I don't think it is something we need to go look for, it is something we are.

We live in a world of high expectations and a need for more. I've been reading a book about Taoism. The philosophy is simplicity. I have enough in my life, I need no more to have a happy and full life. There is a simple anology they use - even in a forest, a bird only needs one branch to built a nest......

Contentment is within and can't really be found by looking outside ourselves. If we have a craving for wealth and material possessions we will actually diminish ourselves morally and spiritually, and freeing ourselves from those cravings enriches us by enhancing our capacity for love, mental serenity, health and happiness.

I do not believe that we will find contentment until we quiet our minds, hearts and souls. We are enough, have enough and can feel enough to be content in our lives. It isn't out there, it is in you now.

IMHO......

Cate ...

I couldnt agree with you More and even tho I am Muslim and Not In Taosism ,that does make sense to me ,Our society is to gearred towards gimmme ,gimme.instead of ppl appreciating what we already have..

Maybe its because I am older or because I am a mother that I can realize these things now,however I truly feel we do have to 'be comfortable' in our own selves before we can truly bring that to others...So may of us try to be unselfish and seek to help others and that is a good thing ,however there are times we also need to just take time to chilll out and take care of ourselves too.

Material things may LOOK nice ,feel nice etc ,,But as the old saying goes ya cant take it with ya ...I am realizing how precious time is,esp since my youngest son is already 12 and he's not a baby anymore,I hope I give him all the time he needs and deserves from me and have taught him a few values and moral lessons along the way...

when we are physically Ill like I am today ( touch of da flu) thats when we appreciate how good it feels when we are NOt ill ...things like that are an example of what I mean ..dont wait till something is Gone before ya appreciate it,that goes for people in your lives as well ,no matter what the age and a simple hug , a smile ,a letter or phone call could really make someone's day a special one...

** getting off my pulpit now,LOL

 

[Cathleen]

Cate ...

I couldnt agree with you More and even tho I am Muslim and Not In Taosism ,that does make sense to me ,Our society is to gearred towards gimmme ,gimme.instead of ppl appreciating what we already have..

Maybe its because I am older or because I am a mother that I can realize these things now,however I truly feel we do have to 'be comfortable' in our own selves before we can truly bring that to others...So may of us try to be unselfish and seek to help others and that is a good thing ,however there are times we also need to just take time to chilll out and take care of ourselves too.

Material things may LOOK nice ,feel nice etc ,,But as the old saying goes ya cant take it with ya ...I am realizing how precious time is,esp since my youngest son is already 12 and he's not a baby anymore,I hope I give him all the time he needs and deserves from me and have taught him a few values and moral lessons along the way...

when we are physically Ill like I am today ( touch of da flu) thats when we appreciate how good it feels when we are NOt ill ...things like that are an example of what I mean ..dont wait till something is Gone before ya appreciate it,that goes for people in your lives as well ,no matter what the age and a simple hug , a smile ,a letter or phone call could really make someone's day a special one...

** getting off my pulpit now,LOL

I understand what you're saying Dream. Contentment I think is a gift that most of us don't fully have. I know there have been times in my life when I was content in all aspect of my life. It is quite a feeling.

Life is fluid, so is contentment I think. What I do believe is that all is within me now to be content ~ and when I am feeling discontentment it is usually from an outside force I am concentrating on or bring into my self.

I do believe in simplicity. I do believe I can achieve contentment too. What I am feeling lately is that I am not living up to the potential or living for the reason I was created thus feeling a discontentment.

I think if I listen and trust I will be able to fulfill my potential and that still is an inside job, it won't come from the material world, it comes from the spirit and the heart I think.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Glad you like the thread.

If I read you correctly, MT, what you feel for and with your mate is substantially less than the profound, life-altering complex of emotions you felt when you were first together. This is a natural stage in a long-term relationship and may well be what you're experiencing - at least insofar as you've described it and I've interpreted your description.

My question of you is this: is there some barrier to rekindling the fire in this relationship? By barrier I mean some emotional hurdle that you prefer to not attempt. If your partner cheated on you a number of years ago and you've not yet forgiven her, that might be enough to create such a hurdle. In the absence of such a barrier, I'm wondering why you express such concern that you might go to your grave with an unfulfilled heart.

Now, what I've posed here is a deeply personal question and I have no expectation that you will answer it here publicly, but if I were in the same situation this is what I would be asking of myself.

Third time trying to answer this, and I've lost it each time.
So this time will be another shortened version that won't get too many people upset.
Before my current relationship I came out of a very bad situation, that damn near killed me. I stayed of my own free will because of my children, who were not legally mine. When they finally grew old enough, I escaped, and a while later she died from a heart attack. In my case it wasn't the break up that hurt me, it was the years of pain. By the time I escaped, I was "broken".
After a while of piecing myself back together, I met my current lady. She was and is a sweet and wonderful woman.
But I can't honestly say that it was ever a profound life altering thing like you mean, except to me at the time. And all my pieces were still not in place yet. I love her, but she has never broken through the place that is locked up. I can't blame her, it's not her fault. It is all mine! I know that.
Maybe because I was still finding me, my expectations were lowered.
Maybe I didn't think I was capable anymore.
Maybe I didn't think I deserved it anymore.
I don't know.
Am I going to jump up and leave her for the first glimmer of that deep passion? No!
Maybe in a way I will hunt for it more with her, now that I know I can still feel.

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Third time trying to answer this, and I've lost it each time.
So this time will be another shortened version that won't get too many people upset.
Before my current relationship I came out of a very bad situation, that damn near killed me. I stayed of my own free will because of my children, who were not legally mine. When they finally grew old enough, I escaped, and a while later she died from a heart attack. In my case it wasn't the break up that hurt me, it was the years of pain. By the time I escaped, I was "broken".
After a while of piecing myself back together, I met my current lady. She was and is a sweet and wonderful woman.
But I can't honestly say that it was ever a profound life altering thing like you mean, except to me at the time. And all my pieces were still not in place yet. I love her, but she has never broken through the place that is locked up. I can't blame her, it's not her fault. It is all mine! I know that.
Maybe because I was still finding me, my expectations were lowered.
Maybe I didn't think I was capable anymore.
Maybe I didn't think I deserved it anymore.
I don't know.
Am I going to jump up and leave her for the first glimmer of that deep passion? No!
Maybe in a way I will hunt for it more with her, now that I know I can still feel.

MT, this was a courageous post. It's not easy to open up like this.

I sense quite a bit of disappointment in your post. Do you know if your partner is similarly disappointed, or is it mostly a matter of your own concerns? I'm hardly Ann Landers, nor can I speak from much experience, so I won't begin to offer any advice other than something that someone said to me once that I think might fit.

It's valuable to strive for something better, but it's equally important to relax and treasure what you have. I have a feeling this is similar to what Cathleen posted earlier about contentment. And since I defer to wiser judgment in these matters, what I can do is recommend that you listen to them as well.

 

[DLL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Originally posted by midwestyankee
MT, this was a courageous post. It's not easy to open up like this.

I sense quite a bit of disappointment in your post. Do you know if your partner is similarly disappointed, or is it mostly a matter of your own concerns? I'm hardly Ann Landers, nor can I speak from much experience, so I won't begin to offer any advice other than something that someone said to me once that I think might fit.

It's valuable to strive for something better, but it's equally important to relax and treasure what you have. I have a feeling this is similar to what Cathleen posted earlier about contentment. And since I defer to wiser judgment in these matters, what I can do is recommend that you listen to them as well.

I dont know ..I am not the type of person that settles...I dont do it in my profession nor would I do it in my home life.***** is way too short not to try to obtain that gold ring...i am not one to give advice on matters of the heart either...but i would never want to just be in it just "because"
Sometimes that affair is something we all need to have...

 

[dragonprince76]

Hello DLL I was starting to worry if you were going to be here tonight hun.

 

[DLL]

Originally posted by dragonprince76
Hello DLL I was starting to worry if you were going to be here tonight hun.

Hi DP 's how are you this evening????

 

[dragonprince76]

Hi DP 's how are you this evening????

I am fine and did you get my pm's hun.

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Third time trying to answer this, and I've lost it each time.
So this time will be another shortened version that won't get too many people upset.
Before my current relationship I came out of a very bad situation, that damn near killed me. I stayed of my own free will because of my children, who were not legally mine. When they finally grew old enough, I escaped, and a while later she died from a heart attack. In my case it wasn't the break up that hurt me, it was the years of pain. By the time I escaped, I was "broken".
After a while of piecing myself back together, I met my current lady. She was and is a sweet and wonderful woman.
But I can't honestly say that it was ever a profound life altering thing like you mean, except to me at the time. And all my pieces were still not in place yet. I love her, but she has never broken through the place that is locked up. I can't blame her, it's not her fault. It is all mine! I know that.
Maybe because I was still finding me, my expectations were lowered.
Maybe I didn't think I was capable anymore.
Maybe I didn't think I deserved it anymore.
I don't know.
Am I going to jump up and leave her for the first glimmer of that deep passion? No!
Maybe in a way I will hunt for it more with her, now that I know I can still feel.

First, thank you ALL for your lovely words and greetings in this thread!

MT I read your words several times, and I think you have the answer right there, with the words "she has never broken through the place that is locked up". Is she aware of this place?

The secret to this "void" you feel might be to try and open the part that you have sealed up. I'm learning myself that nothing truly is released until you face it. Very scary, huh?

Good luck; you might be surprised once you open up that she's the answer!

 

[dirtywhiteboy]

Besides "timing".....you need 3 things to develop a longterm love relationship.....

1) Physical Attraction
2) Similar Background/Interests
3) Similar Spiritual Outlook/Goals


Interestingly, the order of importance is actually backwards from above.


To STAY IN LOVE you only need 1 thing.....

TRUE COMMITTMENT

In other words........Committment = Love


I must however, "qualify" this by saying...... if either person has serious emotional disturbances or serious addictions then "true love/committment" is not attainable.


Of course, the above is much easier to say than do!......

 

[DLL]

Originally posted by dirtywhiteboy
Besides "timing".....you need 3 things to develop a longterm love relationship.....

1) Physical Attraction
2) Similar Background/Interests
3) Similar Spiritual Outlook/Goals


Interestingly, the order of importance is actually backwards from above.


To STAY IN LOVE you only need 1 thing.....

TRUE COMMITTMENT

In other words........Committment = Love


I must howe



ver, "qualify" this by saying...... if either person has serious emotional disturbances or serious addictions then "true love/committment" is not attainable.


wow dwb so good to see you here...xoxoxo


Of course, the above is much easier to say than do!......

 

[dragonprince76]

So what do you want to chat about hun.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Besides "timing".....you need 3 things to develop a longterm love relationship.....
1) Physical Attraction
2) Similar Background/Interests
3) Similar Spiritual Outlook/Goals
Interestingly, the order of importance is actually backwards from above.
To STAY IN LOVE you only need 1 thing.....
TRUE COMMITTMENT
In other words........Committment = Love
I must however, "qualify" this by saying...... if either person has serious emotional disturbances or serious addictions then "true love/committment" is not attainable.
Of course, the above is much easier to say than do!......

Guess I'll start with the last one first.
Committment is very important to a relationship and marriage, but it's not the same as love. I've seen many marriages that the couple were committed to all the same things and to each other, but they didn't truly love each other. Hell, I don't think some of them even liked each other. This includes the way my parents were.
I think love has more to do with committing one's soul and jumping in headfirst. I don't think you can win unless you gamble it all.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

First, thank you ALL for your lovely words and greetings in this thread!

MT I read your words several times, and I think you have the answer right there, with the words "she has never broken through the place that is locked up". Is she aware of this place?

The secret to this "void" you feel might be to try and open the part that you have sealed up. I'm learning myself that nothing truly is released until you face it. Very scary, huh?

Good luck; you might be surprised once you open up that she's the answer!

Well, I would have to say that I am facing it, trying to understand it, just by being here spilling my guts out. I know the solution is within me, not an external force.
I'm not ruling out any answers.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

I dont know ..I am not the type of person that settles...I dont do it in my profession nor would I do it in my home life.***** is way too short not to try to obtain that gold ring...i am not one to give advice on matters of the heart either...but i would never want to just be in it just "because"
Sometimes that affair is something we all need to have...

I've done the "just because" even if there were other reasons.
I did it for too long, and maybe that's why I'm here.
I now know it's within me and I have to find a way to bring it out.

But as far as an affair is concerned, I'm not looking for one.
I'd never use others or myself, just for the sake of an affair. Can be too much pain in that.

If that happened, it would only be if I couldn't stop it. If my lust grew too strong, maybe. I can't rule it out honestly.
But the more likely would be if I gave my heart to someone else and they made me actually need them.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

MT, this was a courageous post. It's not easy to open up like this.

I sense quite a bit of disappointment in your post. Do you know if your partner is similarly disappointed, or is it mostly a matter of your own concerns? I'm hardly Ann Landers, nor can I speak from much experience, so I won't begin to offer any advice other than something that someone said to me once that I think might fit.

It's valuable to strive for something better, but it's equally important to relax and treasure what you have. I have a feeling this is similar to what Cathleen posted earlier about contentment. And since I defer to wiser judgment in these matters, what I can do is recommend that you listen to them as well.

Courageous? Nah. I just open my mouth and everything falls out. That's what this place is for.
Disappointment? There is some of that, but in myself. I know I could be more than what I am.
But there is a degree of discontent. I'm sure it has leaked onto her too.
I suppose if I was content, I wouldn't be here. I just don't want to be complacent. I'm not looking for a fairy tale ending, but I don't know if I've ever really NEEDED anyone, really trusted anyone enough to let go. Maybe when I was younger, but senility prevents me from really remembering that.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

I dont know ..I am not the type of person that settles...I dont do it in my profession nor would I do it in my home life.***** is way too short not to try to obtain that gold ring...i am not one to give advice on matters of the heart either...but i would never want to just be in it just "because"
Sometimes that affair is something we all need to have...

No offense hun ,But I would NEVER suggest to anyone to have an affair,cause then you have a whole NEW set of problems and complications ..and believe me ..I Do know...


as for You MT ,Dr Dream(lol) thinks ...maybe just maybe you are too down on yourself and also possible you have a lil residual guilt left over from when the other lady died,esp since you were or still are (?) close to the kids...and if there really IS a part of you thats kept closed off or hidden then the Lady you are with now is sooner or later gonna sense that....You are only responsible for your own life hun ,and I know ya well enought from the time online to sense you are a deep and caring person,and if ya know that you CAN be more than what you are..and belive me we can ALL do better ,then ultimately its up to YOU to do something about that ...self-satisfaction is very important before you can truly be happy in a relationship with another person ..and as Cate said earlier sometimes the things we seek are just peace of the soul and heart and cant be things grasped from someone else...

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

No offense hun ,But I would NEVER suggest to anyone to have an affair,cause then you have a whole NEW set of problems and complications ..and believe me ..I Do know...


as for You MT ,Dr Dream(lol) thinks ...maybe just maybe you are too down on yourself and also possible you have a lil residual guilt left over from when the other lady died,esp since you were or still are (?) close to the kids...and if there really IS a part of you thats kept closed off or hidden then the Lady you are with now is sooner or later gonna sense that....You are only responsible for your own life hun ,and I know ya well enought from the time online to sense you are a deep and caring person,and if ya know that you CAN be more than what you are..and belive me we can ALL do better ,then ultimately its up to YOU to do something about that ...self-satisfaction is very important before you can truly be happy in a relationship with another person ..and as Cate said earlier sometimes the things we seek are just peace of the soul and heart and cant be things grasped from someone else...

No, there's no guilt at all from her death. We had already broken up and the best that I could feel for her was disgust. Even her kids told her to go away and stayed with me.
I know that no one can solve the problems for me.
But maybe some of the problem isn't just because I'm closed, there is a chance that it just isn't what i need.
Still working that out.