Defining Love

[DLL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Originally posted by ~Dream~
No offense hun ,But I would NEVER suggest to anyone to have an affair,cause then you have a whole NEW set of problems and complications ..and believe me ..I Do know...


as for You MT ,Dr Dream(lol) thinks ...maybe just maybe you are too down on yourself and also possible you have a lil residual guilt left over from when the other lady died,esp since you were or still are (?) close to the kids...and if there really IS a part of you thats kept closed off or hidden then the Lady you are with now is sooner or later gonna sense that....You are only responsible for your own life hun ,and I know ya well enought from the time online to sense you are a deep and caring person,and if ya know that you CAN be more than what you are..and belive me we can ALL do better ,then ultimately its up to YOU to do something about that ...self-satisfaction is very important before you can truly be happy in a relationship with another person ..and as Cate said earlier sometimes the things we seek are just peace of the soul and heart and cant be things grasped from someone else...

I was referring to an affair of the hearts..not one thats built on lust.. This goes back to my q can you love 2 people at once..I would never suggest someone to be un faithful, Now that i KNOWWWWWW who those people are in Yanks Av they were in love ...very much so...and he was very married too....sometimes love can be found in the arms of others too..thats all i was saying...
No offense taken I love reading all the thoughts on this

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

I was referring to an affair of the hearts..not one thats built on lust.. This goes back to my q can you love 2 people at once..I would never suggest someone to be un faithful, Now that i KNOWWWWWW who those people are in Yanks Av they were in love ...very much so...and he was very married too....sometimes love can be found in the arms of others too..thats all i was saying...
No offense taken I love reading all the thoughts on this

As the conversation turns to the subject of affairs, I can't help but think of the words of a friend.....we are opening up a 5 gallon drum of worms

DLL, I think I understand what you are saying. Of course, in a perfect world no one would have affairs, of the heart, the mind, or the body. But the world is not perfect. Nor would I necessarily condone any type of affair but I do see your point in that there can be merits to the situation when it does happen.

In the case of Kate and her Spence.....that was truly a timeless love affair. When you stop to think about it, their situation was quite amazing. Consider the time in which they fell in love. As unacceptable as affairs are by today's standards, in their time it was downright scandalous. And he was very married. In his final years they lived together, she caring for his every need and yet he remained married. They both put themselves in this situation knowing that it could jeopardize their careers, their reputations, and have serious consequences to both their lives. I can hardly imagine the force of a love that would allow two people to risk everything for the sake of loving each other. And I have to ask myself if I would have the strength to deny such a powerful love if I were in the same situation. Of course, I am sure Hepburn's ability to put herself in that situation has much to do with the fact that she was the product of very liberal father and a mother who was an independent force unto herself. They never allowed her to limit her possibilities.

I do believe that there are certain situations when people cannot help but follow their hearts, no matter what their minds tell them. And I can see that in the wake of these situations, some good can come from it.

For some it may be as simple as realizing that the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. It becomes a learning situation which allows them to see the gifts they already have and had forgotten about or taken for granted.

In other situations, it may cause them to realize that they are not in a good situation and they want and deserve more in life. Not living life to it's fullest potential for happiness is wasteful and can lead to a great deal of misery down the road.

Now before anyone has a stroke and jumps all over me.......

I don't think that an affair is the way to go. I don't think it's fair to the innocent parties involved. I don't think it solves any problems one is dealing with in their current relationships.

I am merely suggesting that some good can come from some not-so-good situations. And in some situations, it simply is too difficult to deny the experience.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

No, there's no guilt at all from her death. We had already broken up and the best that I could feel for her was disgust. Even her kids told her to go away and stayed with me.
I know that no one can solve the problems for me.
But maybe some of the problem isn't just because I'm closed, there is a chance that it just isn't what i need.
Still working that out.

Thats good that here isnt any guilt then 1st of all , and sorry you felt disgust tho ..everyone makes mistakes in this life ,noone is perfect ,,,

Maybe her kids did know best then ...they are pretty smart lil creatures sometimes

Only You can find whatever it is that you really need cause only YOu know whatever that is ...I suggest some quiet ,private time or maybe even write down whatever pops into your mind and set some goals for yourself ,small attinable ones at 1st ..dont think that others can fill in the gaps if you yourself dont even know what they are ..

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

I was referring to an affair of the hearts..not one thats built on lust.. This goes back to my q can you love 2 people at once..I would never suggest someone to be un faithful, Now that i KNOWWWWWW who those people are in Yanks Av they were in love ...very much so...and he was very married too....sometimes love can be found in the arms of others too..thats all i was saying...
No offense taken I love reading all the thoughts on this

thanks for Not taking offense 1st of all as I obviously took that wrong ,I see way too many ppl today both online and off just jumping into affairs cause it's so damn easy but I really pity them cause whatever it is they are searching for will only be a short-term fix ...If even that .. as I have said ,yes you can love 2 ppl at once ..of course ya can ,however Not equally as with children ,etc ..I love all 4 of my kids the same ,but Dracoa has a part of me that no other man has or ever will and James is the best friend of a guy that I never had when I was younger ... I cherish Both loves but only 1 gets my body cuddled up to him each night and only 1 keeps my heart warm as well...I wouldnt know about Kate and Spenser ( way before my time ,LOL)

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

As the conversation turns to the subject of affairs, I can't help but think of the words of a friend.....we are opening up a 5 gallon drum of worms

DLL, I think I understand what you are saying. Of course, in a perfect world no one would have affairs, of the heart, the mind, or the body. But the world is not perfect. Nor would I necessarily condone any type of affair but I do see your point in that there can be merits to the situation when it does happen.

In the case of Kate and her Spence.....that was truly a timeless love affair. When you stop to think about it, their situation was quite amazing. Consider the time in which they fell in love. As unacceptable as affairs are by today's standards, in their time it was downright scandalous. And he was very married. In his final years they lived together, she caring for his every need and yet he remained married. They both put themselves in this situation knowing that it could jeopardize their careers, their reputations, and have serious consequences to both their lives. I can hardly imagine the force of a love that would allow two people to risk everything for the sake of loving each other. And I have to ask myself if I would have the strength to deny such a powerful love if I were in the same situation. Of course, I am sure Hepburn's ability to put herself in that situation has much to do with the fact that she was the product of very liberal father and a mother who was an independent force unto herself. They never allowed her to limit her possibilities.

I do believe that there are certain situations when people cannot help but follow their hearts, no matter what their minds tell them. And I can see that in the wake of these situations, some good can come from it.

For some it may be as simple as realizing that the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. It becomes a learning situation which allows them to see the gifts they already have and had forgotten about or taken for granted.

In other situations, it may cause them to realize that they are not in a good situation and they want and deserve more in life. Not living life to it's fullest potential for happiness is wasteful and can lead to a great deal of misery down the road.

Now before anyone has a stroke and jumps all over me.......

I don't think that an affair is the way to go. I don't think it's fair to the innocent parties involved. I don't think it solves any problems one is dealing with in their current relationships.

I am merely suggesting that some good can come from some not-so-good situations. And in some situations, it simply is too difficult to deny the experience.

<< Promises to NOT have a stroke ...Or Jump on ya either!!

this part of your very long but wonderful post was me>

I do believe that there are certain situations when people cannot help but follow their hearts, no matter what their minds tell them. And I can see that in the wake of these situations, some good can come from it. ( I followed my heart at a bad tiime cause I was recently hurt )

For some it may be as simple as realizing that the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. It becomes a learning situation which allows them to see the gifts they already have and had forgotten about or taken for granted.( I learned to appreciate who I have right here with me each and every day and how very much he means to me)

~ very well written GG

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

<< Promises to NOT have a stroke ...Or Jump on ya either!!

this part of your very long but wonderful post was me>

I do believe that there are certain situations when people cannot help but follow their hearts, no matter what their minds tell them. And I can see that in the wake of these situations, some good can come from it. ( I followed my heart at a bad tiime cause I was recently hurt )

For some it may be as simple as realizing that the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. It becomes a learning situation which allows them to see the gifts they already have and had forgotten about or taken for granted.( I learned to appreciate who I have right here with me each and every day and how very much he means to me)

~ very well written GG

Awww, thanks Dream

for the kind words
and for not jumping on me

 

[DLL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Originally posted by ~Dream~
thanks for Not taking offense 1st of all as I obviously took that wrong ,I see way too many ppl today both online and off just jumping into affairs cause it's so damn easy but I really pity them cause whatever it is they are searching for will only be a short-term fix ...If even that .. as I have said ,yes you can love 2 ppl at once ..of course ya can ,however Not equally as with children ,etc ..I love all 4 of my kids the same ,but Dracoa has a part of me that no other man has or ever will and James is the best friend of a guy that I never had when I was younger ... I cherish Both loves but only 1 gets my body cuddled up to him each night and only 1 keeps my heart warm as well...I wouldnt know about Kate and Spenser ( way before my time ,LOL)

i am not referring to a kind of "cyber affair" i mean a "love " affair...where two want to be one...yet not want to0 leave their S/o's...does this make sense??i will comment more later as I have an important call...xoxoxo( president Bush is so impatient) LOL

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

As the conversation turns to the subject of affairs, I can't help but think of the words of a friend.....we are opening up a 5 gallon drum of worms

DLL, I think I understand what you are saying. Of course, in a perfect world no one would have affairs, of the heart, the mind, or the body. But the world is not perfect. Nor would I necessarily condone any type of affair but I do see your point in that there can be merits to the situation when it does happen.

In the case of Kate and her Spence.....that was truly a timeless love affair. When you stop to think about it, their situation was quite amazing. Consider the time in which they fell in love. As unacceptable as affairs are by today's standards, in their time it was downright scandalous. And he was very married. In his final years they lived together, she caring for his every need and yet he remained married. They both put themselves in this situation knowing that it could jeopardize their careers, their reputations, and have serious consequences to both their lives. I can hardly imagine the force of a love that would allow two people to risk everything for the sake of loving each other. And I have to ask myself if I would have the strength to deny such a powerful love if I were in the same situation. Of course, I am sure Hepburn's ability to put herself in that situation has much to do with the fact that she was the product of very liberal father and a mother who was an independent force unto herself. They never allowed her to limit her possibilities.

I do believe that there are certain situations when people cannot help but follow their hearts, no matter what their minds tell them. And I can see that in the wake of these situations, some good can come from it.

For some it may be as simple as realizing that the grass isn't really greener on the other side of the fence. It becomes a learning situation which allows them to see the gifts they already have and had forgotten about or taken for granted.

In other situations, it may cause them to realize that they are not in a good situation and they want and deserve more in life. Not living life to it's fullest potential for happiness is wasteful and can lead to a great deal of misery down the road.

Now before anyone has a stroke and jumps all over me.......

I don't think that an affair is the way to go. I don't think it's fair to the innocent parties involved. I don't think it solves any problems one is dealing with in their current relationships.

I am merely suggesting that some good can come from some not-so-good situations. And in some situations, it simply is too difficult to deny the experience.

Have I mentioned lately how much I like you and your thoughts?
I don't think it's ever a good idea to actually try for an affair. That's just using people! That's the only thing that stopped me before. I won't and can't do it.
But sometimes life has a funny way and kicks you when you least expect it, and from directions that you couldn't possibly see.
Stuff happens. Whether you want it to or not.
It's pretty hard to deny it if you really fall in love with someone else. And I don't really think you do anyone any favors by denying it.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

i am not referring to a kind of "cyber affair" i mean a "love " affair...where two want to be one...yet not want to0 leave their S/o's...does this make sense??i will comment more later as I have an important call...xoxoxo( president Bush is so impatient) LOL

Yeah, it makes sense to me.
(of course I can translate DLL language)
.......come back when you're through talking to your bush

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Have I mentioned lately how much I like you and your thoughts?
I don't think it's ever a good idea to actually try for an affair. That's just using people! That's the only thing that stopped me before. I won't and can't do it.
But sometimes life has a funny way and kicks you when you least expect it, and from directions that you couldn't possibly see.
Stuff happens. Whether you want it to or not.
It's pretty hard to deny it if you really fall in love with someone else. And I don't really think you do anyone any favors by denying it.

Thanks MT......what a nice compliment

I certainly don't mean to advocate going out in search of an affair. I think that there are situations where people come in contact with each other and there is an immediate connection that connot be denied and perhaps that force is too strong for either of them to overcome. Sometimes doo-doo happens.

 

[dirtywhiteboy]

wow dwb so good to see you here...xoxoxo.....

Yes, underneath my dirty, perverted mind is a hopeless romantic.....

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Yes, underneath my dirty, perverted mind is a hopeless romantic.....

Behold! The perfect man

Welcome dirtywhiteboy

 

[dirtywhiteboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

i am not referring to a kind of "cyber affair" i mean a "love " affair...where two want to be one...yet not want to0 leave their S/o's...does this make sense??

Well I believe some people ARE capable of having more than one love.....the problem is if dishonesty is involved than you have basically broken your love committment and violated the trust agreement with the other.

Ever heard of polymory (see polymory.com)? I've actually read into it because I'm re-examining the concept of monogamy right now. Damn, just look at divorce rates...and 2nd/3rd marriages are even worse! Then half of those who STAY married are miserable so what does that really say about monogamy...at least the current definition? Are most people even capable of this? Especially now that life spans have doubled just in the last 50 years?

Personally, I think I still believe in monogamy. However, I also believe that "recreational sex" or "soft swapping" can enhance a relationship but, again, ONLY if both partners consent. I believe this because then we don't have to "suppress" such desires and not be able to speak of them. We can speak freely and even act upon those desires if they become mutual desires. (For example DLL.....right now I have this overwhelming desire to pull those white panties of yours to the side and slowly kiss my way to your.........)

I suppose that makes me a "swinger"?.....

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

As the conversation turns to the subject of affairs, I can't help but think of the words of a friend.....we are opening up a 5 gallon drum of worms

<snip>

I am merely suggesting that some good can come from some not-so-good situations. And in some situations, it simply is too difficult to deny the experience.

GG, if you keep posting such well-written pieces you may lose your standing as the queen of smartass.

The subject of affairs is, indeed, a large barrel of worms. I applaud your thoughtful post and can only say that it must be terribly difficult for people to follow their hearts so completely as Spence and Kate did. I can see it requiring a fierce courage fueled by an immensely powerful love.

 

[dirtywhiteboy]

Behold! The perfect man

Welcome dirtywhiteboy

I've been told that....of course isn't "perfect man" a "oxymoron"?....lol

 

[DLL]

Originally posted by dirtywhiteboy
Yes, underneath my dirty, perverted mind is a hopeless romantic.....

dwb we are two peas in a pod

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Well I believe some people ARE capable of having more than one love.....the problem is if dishonesty is involved than you have basically broken your love committment and violated the trust agreement with the other.

Ever heard of polymory (see polymory.com)? I've actually read into it because I'm re-examining the concept of monogamy right now. Damn, just look at divorce rates...and 2nd/3rd marriages are even worse! Then half of those who STAY married are miserable so what does that really say about monogamy...at least the current definition? Are most people even capable of this? Especially now that life spans have doubled just in the last 50 years?

Personally, I think I still believe in monogamy. However, I also believe that "recreational sex" or "soft swapping" can enhance a relationship but, again, ONLY if both partners consent. I believe this because then we don't have to "suppress" such desires and not be able to speak of them. We can speak freely and even act upon those desires if they become mutual desires. (For example DLL.....right now I have this overwhelming desire to pull those white panties of yours to the side and slowly kiss my way to your.........)

I suppose that makes me a "swinger"?.....

I can understand where your point comes in but how does swinging relate to what DLL defines as an "affair of the heart"?

To me, monogomy is more about loving one person moreso than having sex with one person.

How do you connect the two?

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

GG, if you keep posting such well-written pieces you may lose your standing as the queen of smartass.

The subject of affairs is, indeed, a large barrel of worms. I applaud your thoughtful post and can only say that it must be terribly difficult for people to follow their hearts so completely as Spence and Kate did. I can see it requiring a fierce courage fueled by an immensely powerful love.

No worries Yank......I will always be smart and my ass is expanding with each passing year.

I think the story of Kate and Spence are why I've always loved your AV so much.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

I've been told that....of course isn't "perfect man" a "oxymoron"?....lol

Thus my shit-eatin' grin dwb

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

No worries Yank......I will always be smart and my ass is expanding with each passing year.

I think the story of Kate and Spence are why I've always loved your AV so much.

You should try hanging out in joke threads more often. Then you could laugh your ass off.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

You should try hanging out in joke threads more often. Then you could laugh your ass off.

Yank, it's only because I hold you in such high regard that I will take the time to tell you that was weak, even by your standards!

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Yank, it's only because I hold you in such high regard that I will take the time to tell you that was weak, even by your standards!

I'm glad someone is willing to keep me in line.

 

[~Dream~]

I've been told that....of course isn't "perfect man" a "oxymoron"?....lol

ya got THAT right

 

[DLL]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Originally posted by ~Dream~
thanks for Not taking offense 1st of all as I obviously took that wrong ,I see way too many ppl today both online and off just jumping into affairs cause it's so damn easy but I really pity them cause whatever it is they are searching for will only be a short-term fix ...If even that .. as I have said ,yes you can love 2 ppl at once ..of course ya can ,however Not equally as with children ,etc ..I love all 4 of my kids the same ,but Dracoa has a part of me that no other man has or ever will and James is the best friend of a guy that I never had when I was younger ... I cherish Both loves but only 1 gets my body cuddled up to him each night and only 1 keeps my heart warm as well...I wouldnt know about Kate and Spenser ( way before my time ,LOL)

Kate n spence were different because he was married she wasnt..and both had the means to carry on a long term relationship..all that makes for an easy affair...but there was an age factor..that also made it easier ..he would not have been so free to persue it if his wife was kates age..the factors were right for that 3 some....
I think when one is involved in an affair you are getting the better of that person in a way..you see only the romance and none of the everyday stresses life has to offer...you get the dinners,the presents,the good...its like being on a first date in many ways forever...

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Living vs. Existing

Kate n spence were different because he was married she wasnt..and both had the means to carry on a long term relationship..all that makes for an easy affair...but there was an age factor..that also made it easier ..he would not have been so free to persue it if his wife was kates age..the factors were right for that 3 some....
I think when one is involved in an affair you are getting the better of that person in a way..you see only the romance and none of the everyday stresses life has to offer...you get the dinners,the presents,the good...its like being on a first date in many ways forever...

This is a very good point DLL....in most cases, having an affair is like staying in that honeymoon period forever.