Defining Love

[midwestyankee]

hi MWY Hi Cate....
well good question for sure...well cyber relationships are easy to hide for the most part for many..thats why i perfer phone and cam what you hear and see is what you get... Kidding.......
on a serious note i like to know if they are married and honestly I perfer to chat with married men...for various reasons..I am married and never lie about that status...i perfer older men too so age is important to me..as are looks what can I say I am shallow there has to be an attraction of sorts...but the most important thing to me in rl as well as a cyber relationship is intelligence.I can't stand a one way conversation...Honestly is also a factor ..isn't it funny we tend to be more honest with the person whom we are having an affair with... They seem to know the most..well thats it from me this morning.....


Oh BTW Yank have you noticed the yankee wins lately????

A couple of your points intrigue me, DLL.

It would be interesting to explore why you - or anyone - tend to prefer relationships with married men. Could it be that such a relationship is somehow safer, or could it be that a relationship with a married man is made more exciting by the intrigue and secrecy of it all? Is it that married men have layers of experience that make them more appealing as partners?

And then there is the idea that someone would be more honest with a partner in an affair. Aside from the obvious thing, that your partner in an affair would know you are married and your spouse is no doubt unaware of the affair, what sort of additional honesty do you mean? Is there something about an illicit relationship that triggers more honesty in your view? I think many would argue that the opposite is true, since so many affairs seem to end over slights of dishonesty - as in, one partner "forgetting" to say that he was married or that his "divorce" was a fiction. So since your point is quite contrary to common wisdom, I wonder if you would be willing to help us explore it with some clarification.

 

[midwestyankee]

Nice post sweety and I gotta agree with the Honesty part as well,and women like to be 'stimulated' alot more than just in a sexual sense also ,I find a share alot more of myself with my phone sex partner than with my Bf..I think it's because each 1 of them satisfies a different yet very REAL need I have..

Dream, welcome to the thread.

I think I hear you saying that you respond differently to different partners. Does that mean that you engage in a different level of honesty with different partners? Do you find yourself responding to them differently depending on how honest you think they are being?

 

[Cathleen]

Yes, Cate, if admitting that something fries your butt, then this is practical enough.

You call yourself a "sucker," which leads me to believe you feel that you allowed yourself to be deceived once too often. Chances are, most of us have had that same experience.

So now let me rearrange the question: to what extent does it matter to you if someone you meet misrepresents himself or herself - presumably to become more attractive to you in the early going?

Is this the Yankee inquisition? lol Keep looking in my brain and you'll be sorry!!!

Deceived once too often? Oh yeah... but I don't seem to learn.

Well I don't like deceit, it hurts the relationship, at any stage. But am I able to overcome that, sure, in some instances. Other times it is too aggregious. Comes back to motive.... why deceive, especially if you wish to attract the person...but I know it I'm human and would want to be forgiven, so I try to allow the same for others.

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Is this the Yankee inquisition? lol Keep looking in my brain and you'll be sorry!!!

Deceived once too often? Oh yeah... but I don't seem to learn.

Well I don't like deceit, it hurts the relationship, at any stage. But am I able to overcome that, sure, in some instances. Other times it is too aggregious. Comes back to motive.... why deceive, especially if you wish to attract the person...but I know it I'm human and would want to be forgiven, so I try to allow the same for others.

Why should anyone misrepresent themselves? The only reason to lie to lie about yourself is if you're playing a game. Which is fine, if the rules are understood by both partners.
But in real life, lies don't do either person any good. The liar can't be honest, so really doesn't get anything out of a relationship except physical, and the other person just gets hurt.
Unfortunately the internet seems to have bred whole new versions of liars, when in reality it may be the safest place to tell the truth.

 

[midwestyankee]

Why should anyone misrepresent themselves? The only reason to lie to lie about yourself is if you're playing a game. Which is fine, if the rules are understood by both partners.
But in real life, lies don't do either person any good. The liar can't be honest, so really doesn't get anything out of a relationship except physical, and the other person just gets hurt.
Unfortunately the internet seems to have bred whole new versions of liars, when in reality it may be the safest place to tell the truth.

I don't disagree with you, MT, but lying seems to be part of the territory when it comes to relationships - particularly adulterous ones for some reason.

You're quite right that the anonymity of online relationships would seem to make it that much easier to tell the truth about ourselves, yet lying abounds.

My own suspicion is that much of the dishonesty stems from a lack of confidence. A woman might provide a false description of her appearance in order to keep someone's interest online. A man might conveniently fail to disclose that he is married. Perhaps some people are so desparate for a loving relationship and so unsure that they are worthy of one that they invent an online version of themselves in order to "qualify."

It seems foolish and it seems pointless, yet I am sure most of us have experienced this before. I know I have.

 

[midwestyankee]

Is this the Yankee inquisition? lol Keep looking in my brain and you'll be sorry!!!

Deceived once too often? Oh yeah... but I don't seem to learn.

Well I don't like deceit, it hurts the relationship, at any stage. But am I able to overcome that, sure, in some instances. Other times it is too aggregious. Comes back to motive.... why deceive, especially if you wish to attract the person...but I know it I'm human and would want to be forgiven, so I try to allow the same for others.

Do I get to wear fancy robes and carry a sceptre for the Yankee Inquisition?

And can I put my prisoners into a dungeon and treat them as I wish?

If so, then beware the Yankee Inquisition!!

 

[~Dream~]

Dream, welcome to the thread.

I think I hear you saying that you respond differently to different partners. Does that mean that you engage in a different level of honesty with different partners? Do you find yourself responding to them differently depending on how honest you think they are being?

No Not at all ,I try my best to be honest with Both of them ,they Both do Know about each other but Its hard to describe to them both how I feel about the other,yet I know my heart clearly is beating faster for 1 than the other ,I really dont wanna hurt either one ..Does that make Any sense?? I really do think it does take 2 to make a relationship work and sometimes only 1 to break it..

 

[midwestyankee]

No Not at all ,I try my best to be honest with Both of them ,they Both do Know about each other but Its hard to describe to them both how I feel about the other,yet I know my heart clearly is beating faster for 1 than the other ,I really dont wanna hurt either one ..Does that make Any sense?? I really do think it does take 2 to make a relationship work and sometimes only 1 to break it..

What you're describing is, I think, the heart of the problem in trying to love two people at the same time. It's not impossible but it takes a great deal of energy and attention.

 

[Cathleen]

Do I get to wear fancy robes and carry a sceptre for the Yankee Inquisition?

And can I put my prisoners into a dungeon and treat them as I wish?

If so, then beware the Yankee Inquisition!!

Oh my!!

 

[~Dream~]

What you're describing is, I think, the heart of the problem in trying to love two people at the same time. It's not impossible but it takes a great deal of energy and attention.

yes perhaps that's so,however I am honestly only a 1 woman man...its just that well..certain feelings change over time..sometimes...and 1 is physically here with me and the other cant be ..yet...and I have a physical history with 1 ...and an emotional/mental connection with the other ....maybe I should call up Jerry Springer??

 

[Cathleen]

I don't disagree with you, MT, but lying seems to be part of the territory when it comes to relationships - particularly adulterous ones for some reason.

You're quite right that the anonymity of online relationships would seem to make it that much easier to tell the truth about ourselves, yet lying abounds.

My own suspicion is that much of the dishonesty stems from a lack of confidence. A woman might provide a false description of her appearance in order to keep someone's interest online. A man might conveniently fail to disclose that he is married. Perhaps some people are so desparate for a loving relationship and so unsure that they are worthy of one that they invent an online version of themselves in order to "qualify."

It seems foolish and it seems pointless, yet I am sure most of us have experienced this before. I know I have.

Ok... I did a "test" once online with a man.... ok so I lied...there I said it.... I "created" a false self, one that was not physically me, but intellectually and emotionally me..... he was interested... and when I revealed my physical self...he was gone. So...either he was ticked with my lie or with my real appearance.... I won't find out either.....and left to my own thoughts, I tend to believe the negative on this one.....its been reinforced.

I agree that online there doesn't seem to be a reason to deceive, but oh gosh does it happen all the dang time! Why.... leads me back to intentions and choices.

 

[~Dream~]

Ok... I did a "test" once online with a man.... ok so I lied...there I said it.... I "created" a false self, one that was not physically me, but intellectually and emotionally me..... he was interested... and when I revealed my physical self...he was gone. So...either he was ticked with my lie or with my real appearance.... I won't find out either.....and left to my own thoughts, I tend to believe the negative on this one.....its been reinforced.

I agree that online there doesn't seem to be reasons to deceive, but oh gosh does it happen all the dang time! Why.... leads me back to intentions and choices.

I just feel that we woman need to be stimulated in more ways than just sexually ,altho Dont get me wrong ,sex in itself is a wonderful ,beautiful thing....

Its just that sometimes there is a much deeper connection with someone who sees and knows the REAL you'..and Not just your Body ..and accepts you for who ya are...tries to understand you ANd your beliefs...and decides that his or her life would be less meaningful without You in it....I ,personally see No Need to Lie online or off as the Truth always has a way of coming out ,eventually

 

[CuriousNude]

I just feel that we woman need to be stimulated in more ways than just sexually ,altho Dont get me wrong ,sex in itself is a wonderful ,beautiful thing....

Its just that sometimes there is a much deeper connection with someone who sees and knows the REAL you'..and Not just your Body ..and accepts you for who ya are...tries to understand you ANd your beliefs...and decides that his or her life would be less meaningful without You in it....I ,personally see No Need to Lie online or off as the Truth always has a way of coming out ,eventually

Very well said !

 

[~Dream~]

Very well said !

thanks Curious ..I usually dont ramble on like that unless its somethin I deeply believe in ..and I do

 

[CuriousNude]

thanks Curious ..I usually dont ramble on like that unless its somethin I deeply believe in ..and I do

Well you said it very well !

 

[CuriousNude]

Communication is the Key to happiness !

 

[MT_Pitcher]

Communication is the Key to happiness !

I'll agree with that.
Never tell a lie when the truth is better.
Never tell the whole truth if it will hurt the other.

I'm not a fan of blunt truths either.
There's almost always a way to say it better.

 

[Cathleen]

I'll agree with that.
Never tell a lie when the truth is better.
Never tell the whole truth if it will hurt the other.

I'm not a fan of blunt truths either.
There's almost always a way to say it better.

Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't be mean when you say it!

 

[Wyldfire]

Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't be mean when you say it!

Unless ya absolutely have no choice. There are times when ya jus HAVE ta say somethin an say it meanly......

 

[Cathleen]

I don't disagree with you, MT, but lying seems to be part of the territory when it comes to relationships - particularly adulterous ones for some reason.

<snip>

This is hardly surprizing to me. The relationship is started upon a base of a lie in my opinion. When one seeks consciously to look away from vows given to another, then lying is immediate. The relationship is deceptive. I would have a hard time trusting the person. I understand that sometimes we met another at a most inopportune time and there is not a conscious effort to deceive, but if one is willing to proceed it speaks to their character. The quality of the person is paramount to me. I am certainly not clean as the driven snow here, but I always did have a question in the back of my mind, a lack of trust and security. These held the relationship back and held me back too. Maybe that was the attraction too, the safety of not proceeding beyond a certain point. (Hmmm interesting thought about myself, not surprizing either.)

 

[MindFire]

WOW is this still going on?
what stamina, what endurance,
have you figured it all out yet?
it is an unsolvable subject.. Guess you just have to trust
one another.. HUGS

 

[Shadowpaladin]

WOW is this still going on?
what stamina, what endurance,
have you figured it all out yet?
it is an unsolvable subject.. Guess you just have to trust
one another.. HUGS

LOL. That or just relax and enjoy the joy that the ride of Love can bring one.

 

[SouthSkyEyes]

Hmmm. Yes, "cybersex" sure can test the waters when it comes to being in a committed (trusted) relationship.

I'll admit I've engaged in cybersex (lost my virtual virginity last month). Neither proud nor ashamed to say it. It was with a dear woman friend I know only on-line (no, no one around here). No hidden agendas, no spoken expectations, just a mutual indulgence of erotic fantasy through word in a container of trust. Sexuality is only one of the things we trust to share.

Yes, there's that surge of being so completely naughty with this mystery-person. But there's no disprespect for our ourselves or our respective spouses in it. She's happily married (so I believe from her word) and I'm still deeply in love and lust with my wife of 25 years.

Does my wife know? Yes, she knows the scope of my erotic indulgences includes "going all the way" with a friend "on-line " She trusts me with such relationships even thought it does leave her tantalized, and a little jealous. But by how she takes her revenge ... I think she actually appreciates it. And this on-line friend of mine tells me her husband responds similarly.

Are we playing with fire? Of course we are. But I am assuming all responsibility to avoid "getting burned" and certainly to avoid tarnishing my cherished relationship with my wife.

Sky

 

[TantaLiza]

Well, as for attached/unattached...that is a must! That would be a deal breaker for me, if left unsaid, or deceit. I've been burned there too.... aww heck, I am a sucker, thats all! I trust too easily most of the time, but the alternative isn't too attractive to me. Someones personal appearance matters not to me.....really its all about honesty for me. I can't stand to be lied to, it really fries my butt! How is that for being practical!

I agree, sis!!! Being lied to really chaps my ass and I will go away immediately!! Honesty and respect go a long damn way!!

 

[TantaLiza]

I don't disagree with you, MT, but lying seems to be part of the territory when it comes to relationships - particularly adulterous ones for some reason.

You're quite right that the anonymity of online relationships would seem to make it that much easier to tell the truth about ourselves, yet lying abounds.

My own suspicion is that much of the dishonesty stems from a lack of confidence. A woman might provide a false description of her appearance in order to keep someone's interest online. A man might conveniently fail to disclose that he is married. Perhaps some people are so desparate for a loving relationship and so unsure that they are worthy of one that they invent an online version of themselves in order to "qualify."

It seems foolish and it seems pointless, yet I am sure most of us have experienced this before. I know I have.

Unfortunately, I've experienced this lying form a few times too many myself!! EVEN AFTER I told them... honesty is the most important thing!!! ~sigh~

I have the priviledge of saying that I tell the truth to the point that it almost hurts... in the process, the ones that don't matter leave.

I've also been told when finally meeting in person that I talk myself down too much... guess it's a defense mechanism. That way they can be pleasantly surprised... ~soft smile~