Defining Love

[midwestyankee]

Love ..... part passion, part hate, and part indifference...
blend them and you have eternal all consuming LOVE.

Dhalgren.

I'm very curious: how do you see both hate and indifference, which seem to be mutually exclusive as necessary ingredients in love?

 

[Dhalgren150]

to me all 3 are liken to the same.. to hate something we must first loved it, same with indifference... in order to be that we must have at one time Loved to be that therefore it is all 3 that makes a alll consuming love.
and it all comes circle.. and ends with the first.. being Love.
Dhalgren.

 

[Shoshisexy]

MY,

You are correct in thinking that I believe love is an emotional attachment that never goes away. It can be twisted and damaged out of all recognition, but it never truly goes away.

As for being in love, yes, I do believe it is a reciprocal emotion. I believe that for someone to truly be in love with another, the other person must return those feelings with a similar depth and honesty. I watch my Mother and my Stepfather daily. They are truly in love. They support each other, they comfort each other. When one leans, the other is there. When one needs help, the other is there without being asked. My Mom is partially disabled due to an accident, which is part of the reason I live at home right now. I love her deeply and help out as much as possible. My Step, on the other hand, has had numerous opportunities to walk out or to ignore the problems. Instead, he is a part of the solution, such as it is. That is love and being in love. Their life together has changed in so many ways, and they both work to adapt and help each other.

I personally have never experienced it. I do believe that being in love must go hand-in-hand with loving or there is no foundation and the relationship crumbles. I think that is what others mean when they say the rush fades....If one is in love, they must also love, recognizing faults and accepting the person as he or she is.



Shoshana

 

[midwestyankee]

MY,

You are correct in thinking that I believe love is an emotional attachment that never goes away. It can be twisted and damaged out of all recognition, but it never truly goes away.

As for being in love, yes, I do believe it is a reciprocal emotion. I believe that for someone to truly be in love with another, the other person must return those feelings with a similar depth and honesty. I watch my Mother and my Stepfather daily. They are truly in love. They support each other, they comfort each other. When one leans, the other is there. When one needs help, the other is there without being asked. My Mom is partially disabled due to an accident, which is part of the reason I live at home right now. I love her deeply and help out as much as possible. My Step, on the other hand, has had numerous opportunities to walk out or to ignore the problems. Instead, he is a part of the solution, such as it is. That is love and being in love. Their life together has changed in so many ways, and they both work to adapt and help each other.

I personally have never experienced it. I do believe that being in love must go hand-in-hand with loving or there is no foundation and the relationship crumbles. I think that is what others mean when they say the rush fades....If one is in love, they must also love, recognizing faults and accepting the person as he or she is.



Shoshana

I think you are blessed to have the example of your mother and step-father in your life. It appears to be a very loving relationship.

 

[Peteslaw2]

dll 2 cents worth

Part of the reason that I love dll is that when she offers 2 cents worth of advice she gives a dollar and a half.

 

[Dhalgren150]

but what of the UNREQUITED love?
there is one sided love.
Dhalgren

 

[midwestyankee]

but what of the UNREQUITED love?
there is one sided love.
Dhalgren

Yes, it is one-sided. But is that necessarily bad? If I choose to love someone who is incapable of returning that love, for whatever reason, and act lovingly toward that person nonetheless then it would be, by definition unrequited. However, if I am satisfied with the relationship and am content with it despite its one-sided nature, who's to say that it's not a good thing?

 

[Shoshisexy]

I spoke of "unrequited" love in my post as well, although I didn't call it that. Unreturned love is still love given. I cannot take that part of me back from that person. I personally wouldn't want to either. I have learned over the years that the more I give love, the more I receive in some form or another.

My Grandfather and Grandmother had an absolutely amazing love together, especially considering that she was unable to have sexual relations for much of their marriage due to back problems. He also had to watch her die of Emphysema. I do not know as much about them as my Mother does as it is her parents. If I can, I am going to try and convince her to sign up and join in. *LOL*

 

[midwestyankee]

I spoke of "unrequited" love in my post as well, although I didn't call it that. Unreturned love is still love given. I cannot take that part of me back from that person. I personally wouldn't want to either. I have learned over the years that the more I give love, the more I receive in some form or another.

My Grandfather and Grandmother had an absolutely amazing love together, especially considering that she was unable to have sexual relations for much of their marriage due to back problems. He also had to watch her die of Emphysema. I do not know as much about them as my Mother does as it is her parents. If I can, I am going to try and convince her to sign up and join in. *LOL*

By all means. The more the merrier.

 

[Dhalgren150]

unrequited love is one that feels one way.. and never consumates the total picture.... makes a person well not be able to feel the real thing... is a fantasy? i know what i want to say but humm cannot find right words... since i have been through that myself, and i know it has jaded so to speak my thinking
if i am rambling i am sorry.
Dhalgren.

 

[Shoshisexy]

Mom's response....

MY, This is LadyAdina Shoshisexy's mom. I have read this thread and found it facinating in many ways. I am surprised at how many people realize there is love and there is LOVE.

The best example of total love I can give is my own parents. In the 54 years they were married, my dad had to take care of Mom for the last 8. Each year she became weaker and more dependent, so that by the 3rd year she was wheelchair bound and had to wear Oxygen 24/7. That man, my dad, never left her side, put her in the hospital (nursing type) but took care of her, even though he had had a quadruple by-pass a few years before. This continued even through the last days. She was embarrassed to have us stay with them because of her inability to get to the bathroom quickly and the like but we stayed nearby for about 10 days. The total devotion I saw in my dad is something I can only hope to give to my husband over the years. I have no problem believing he will be just as devoted as my dad.

Love is a word that is easily said and easily tossed around. When you have the feeling for someone that is more than the word can describe and truly feel complete, grab a hold and never, never let go. THAT IS LOVE.
Thanks for listening,
Lady Adina

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Mom's response....

MY, This is LadyAdina Shoshisexy's mom. I have read this thread and found it facinating in many ways. I am surprised at how many people realize there is love and there is LOVE.

The best example of total love I can give is my own parents. In the 54 years they were married, my dad had to take care of Mom for the last 8. Each year she became weaker and more dependent, so that by the 3rd year she was wheelchair bound and had to wear Oxygen 24/7. That man, my dad, never left her side, put her in the hospital (nursing type) but took care of her, even though he had had a quadruple by-pass a few years before. This continued even through the last days. She was embarrassed to have us stay with them because of her inability to get to the bathroom quickly and the like but we stayed nearby for about 10 days. The total devotion I saw in my dad is something I can only hope to give to my husband over the years. I have no problem believing he will be just as devoted as my dad.

Love is a word that is easily said and easily tossed around. When you have the feeling for someone that is more than the word can describe and truly feel complete, grab a hold and never, never let go. THAT IS LOVE.
Thanks for listening,
Lady Adina

Lady Adina, we are honored that you took the time to read this thread and add your wisdom. Thank you so very much.

I do think that the examples our parents set have an important impact on our own ability to love. Of course, we don't all develop the same skills in loving, nor are we all as lucky in selecting our mates, but the example is before us and guides us.

The description you give of the caring your father showed your mother in her last days is, I think, a perfect example of the giving nature of love.

 

[GoddessOfSouls]

Yes, it is one-sided. But is that necessarily bad? If I choose to love someone who is incapable of returning that love, for whatever reason, and act lovingly toward that person nonetheless then it would be, by definition unrequited. However, if I am satisfied with the relationship and am content with it despite its one-sided nature, who's to say that it's not a good thing?

 

[midwestyankee]

This response does surprise me! Dear Yankee! knowing you to be a man of Intelligence, I must ask, how can you say that this would be a good thing? Its neither healthy nor fulfilling! its more an obsession! I don't mean to say that one cannot love another one sided! but one cannot BE in LOVE with another that way! For it would be only what ones mind conceives not a reality! love Intimate love is to be shared, I really cant conceive of something so very one-sided! a mere fantasy of the mind

Goddess, you are absolutely right. What I described was loving, but not a state of being in love. I see the two as quite distinct. But I disagree with you when you describe such a love as not healthy nor fulfilling. It's quite healthy to love another, regardless of the response one receives. Let me toss a couple examples onto the table for consideration.

Let's consider a psychotherapist whose work entails deep interaction with his patients. He must commit himself to their betterment and extend himself to them in order to fully meet their needs in therapy. But not all patients are or ever will be capable of returning the same to me. The therapist in this example is acting in a fully loving way towards the patient. Would you call that a bad thing? Yet it meets most conventional definitions of loving behavior.

Here's another: a woman loves her husband, cares for him daily, and has done so for all 45 years of their marriage. But for the last three years he has suffered from Alzheimer's disease and no longer recognizes her. He is now incapable of returning her love. Does that diminish her love or reduce the worth of her loving acts as she makes his breakfast, reads him the comics, tucks him in at night?

What do you think?

 

[GoddessOfSouls]

Goddess, you are absolutely right. What I described was loving, but not a state of being in love. I see the two as quite distinct. But I disagree with you when you describe such a love as not healthy nor fulfilling. It's quite healthy to love another, regardless of the response one receives. Let me toss a couple examples onto the table for consideration.

Let's consider a psychotherapist whose work entails deep interaction with his patients. He must commit himself to their betterment and extend himself to them in order to fully meet their needs in therapy. But not all patients are or ever will be capable of returning the same to me. The therapist in this example is acting in a fully loving way towards the patient. Would you call that a bad thing? Yet it meets most conventional definitions of loving behavior.

Well if you notice I did say INTIMATE love! I do understand that one can love and care for another, do you consider this Unrequited love? to me thats Normal love for another

Here's another: a woman loves her husband, cares for him daily, and has done so for all 45 years of their marriage. But for the last three years he has suffered from Alzheimer's disease and no longer recognizes her. He is now incapable of returning her love. Does that diminish her love or reduce the worth of her loving acts as she makes his breakfast, reads him the comics, tucks him in at night?

Point made! and I will add to that with a simple addition as well as question, I see a diffrence there, you see in this case the love was there all along, not the same as UN-Requited love as you stated earlier! because one becomes unable though whatever health or mental reason to CONTINUE to show the same level of love does not make that love any less real or shared! NOT the same thing! an example would be when my mother in law was passing away from cancer, once it got to her brain it was almost over, she was not even close to who or what she had been in life, she couldnt talk, eat, or make much more then cries and moans, Dad, didnt want her to know that this was the end, he tried very hard to keep everything quiet he worried about her, (many thought he was off his rocker, as she didnt have much mind left, she was helpless) I sat and watched her and talked with her as we all did, she didnt ever answer anything that we could even come close to making sense of, it was the night before she passed, and someone phoned, one of the boys took the call in the same room she was in, he told them to Hurry as there wasnt long left, Dad Hushed his son, and they whispered in a hushed silence, I watched her eyes, as a tear slipped down her cheek, I looked at her and smiled, I said you know, and you understand don't you! she squeezed my hand! I cried with her! you see he tried not to let on for her because he loved her and wanted to protect her, and she knew, and allowed him his fantasy so as to protect him! now she couldnt show him love, but it was there fully truely there! to me that is not unrequited love at all! its love in the fullest of degrees!

What do you think?

LOL now to finish up! (as you may notice I did try and remove that before you saw it, as I knew this would be misunderstood as so many of the aspects of love are these days! BUT your a very QUICK MAN MR YANKEE!! you have my thoughts! now if you could manage to give me YOURS! and not the cold removed aspect of it, but the deeper more personal end of it, I may consider a debate settled! but as I see it Love is not remotely something one can disect like a frog in Biology class! yes you can give your ideals but to be truthful, the more I read the colder this becomes! Everyone has an Idea of love and the Varied levels of it, all simular, yet different, its a wonderful Idea to discuss love in all its aspects! and some of the posts here are so very touching they reach into my heart and pull at my heart strings.. those are Love! in its purest form, Iam long winded here and iam sorry, I know this all gets Jumbled about, BUT LOVE is LOVE simple pure LOVE, and if you don't know it or have it in your life, then your missing something very essential to your own existance! Babies who are not held will not survive why is this? The answer is simple! Plants which are talked to and cherished flurish why is this?
Ok Iam done ranting ~smile~

 

[Guest]

 

[midwestyankee]

Goddess, let me start by saying that I have been putting my own thoughts into every post I have made here. Maybe it's my style of writing that leaves the impression that I am talking about abstract things, but I am not.

The point I was trying to make, in response to Dahlgren150's post, was that a one-sided love is not necessarily always a bad thing. And then it appeared that you had chimed in in support of his position. I firmly believe that the phrase "unrequited love" is poorly understood at best, and completely misused very often. One-sided love can be as pure and healthy as love that is returned.

I once had a friend who was a woman. We loved each other for the four years we were in college together. I suppose we may have spent hundreds of hours together, talking and sharing on the most intimate level. When she was sad, I hurt with her. When she was joyful, I rejoiced with her. When she was in pain, I did everything in my power to make her well. For each, we were a bridge over troubled waters. But I never once kissed her. It was not a romantic love but it was a pure love.

Not long after that I met a young woman who became the center of my universe. We were enthralled with each other, convinced that if we were separated from the other for more than a few hours the world would come to an end. It was a passionately physical relationship that we both knew to be love. But then something happened and we split. Within a few weeks neither one of us could recall exactly what it was that drew us together in the first place. We talked about just that one night and were both amazed at how similar our experiences had been. We decided that we had been in love but could not love each other. Ours had actually been a very selfish and self-centered romance. It faded as quickly as a summer rainbow and yet we had been convinced it was love.

For me, to love is to extend yourself completely to another simply for the sake of improving the life of the other. It is a selfless thing, and is quite different from the mass of feelings that we associate with being in love. When we are in love, our beloved truly is the center of our universe and can do no wrong (or we easily excuse their wrongs). This intense set of feelings eventually fades and in many cases develops into a state where we truly love the other. In this later state, we act lovingly with each other.

By acting lovingly, I mean that our actions toward our beloved are always meant to help improve that person's life. To help that person grow spiritually. These are selfless actions and are motivated by a desire for the beloved's improvement, not our own.

Does this make it any more clear?

 

[GoddessOfSouls]

Goddess, let me start by saying that I have been putting my own thoughts into every post I have made here. Maybe it's my style of writing that leaves the impression that I am talking about abstract things, but I am not.

The point I was trying to make, in response to Dahlgren150's post, was that a one-sided love is not necessarily always a bad thing. And then it appeared that you had chimed in in support of his position. I firmly believe that the phrase "unrequited love" is poorly understood at best, and completely misused very often. One-sided love can be as pure and healthy as love that is returned.

I once had a friend who was a woman. We loved each other for the four years we were in college together. I suppose we may have spent hundreds of hours together, talking and sharing on the most intimate level. When she was sad, I hurt with her. When she was joyful, I rejoiced with her. When she was in pain, I did everything in my power to make her well. For each, we were a bridge over troubled waters. But I never once kissed her. It was not a romantic love but it was a pure love.

Not long after that I met a young woman who became the center of my universe. We were enthralled with each other, convinced that if we were separated from the other for more than a few hours the world would come to an end. It was a passionately physical relationship that we both knew to be love. But then something happened and we split. Within a few weeks neither one of us could recall exactly what it was that drew us together in the first place. We talked about just that one night and were both amazed at how similar our experiences had been. We decided that we had been in love but could not love each other. Ours had actually been a very selfish and self-centered romance. It faded as quickly as a summer rainbow and yet we had been convinced it was love.

For me, to love is to extend yourself completely to another simply for the sake of improving the life of the other. It is a selfless thing, and is quite different from the mass of feelings that we associate with being in love. When we are in love, our beloved truly is the center of our universe and can do no wrong (or we easily excuse their wrongs). This intense set of feelings eventually fades and in many cases develops into a state where we truly love the other. In this later state, we act lovingly with each other.

By acting lovingly, I mean that our actions toward our beloved are always meant to help improve that person's life. To help that person grow spiritually. These are selfless actions and are motivated by a desire for the beloved's improvement, not our own.

Does this make it any more clear?

Thank you Yankee! I do and did understand your meaning and thank you for personal touch, it does make things easier to understand

 

[midwestyankee]

Thank you Yankee! I do and did understand your meaning and thank you for personal touch, it does make things easier to understand

You're quite welcome.

Of course there is still more to the story. For example, I have not yet touched on passionate love, partnerly love, or the nature of love in online relationships.

We have barely started to till this field. And it is fertile ground indeed.

 

[GoddessOfSouls]

GoodLuck

Wishing you the best of luck in your persuits

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: GoodLuck

Wishing you the best of luck in your persuits

Thank you, Goddess. Do plan to stop by another time when you see something you'd like to comment on.

 

[DLL]

Re: dll 2 cents worth

Originally posted by Peteslaw2
Part of the reason that I love dll is that when she offers 2 cents worth of advice she gives a dollar and a half.

 

[69forever]

Re: Re: dll 2 cents worth

LOL....I Love You.....you will pay for this later...............

Oop's!!! ~giggle, giggle, giggle~

 

[Shoshisexy]

It is as I said in my post before...On must have both love and being in love for a true foundation for a relationship that is going to last.

MY, I agree that the actions of the partners, whether opposite or same sex or multiple, must be for the benefit of the other(s), for the most part. Once again we are wading into those murky waters of loving oneslef as well as others. I beleive that one cannot truly love (and live) until one has love for oneself.

Well, let me amend that. One can love, but one will not believe that another loves him/her if (s)he does not love him/herself. For many years as a child and adolescent, I was mentally, emotionally, and physically abused. I truly believed I was not worth loving. Although I could love others, and did, when it was offered to me, I rejected it. That rejection most likely hurt those people. I know it hurt my family. I do know that I couldn't keep friends then. That is probably why. In all honesty, though, I was incapable of accepting and appreciating the love they offered.

Some stayed around and continued to offer it to me, slowly teaching me my own worrth. Others disappeared out of my life forever. Some people showed me things about myself in love and then left. I do not believe that to love means that one has to have it returned or that it is necessarily long-term.

It is when both love and being in love are combined that a relationship may reach a long-term and permanent connection. At one moment you cannot think of anything but the person(s) you are with. In the next moment you realize they are not perfect and will probably do something to annoy you as soon as they walk through the door. Combining these feelings is what makes every day a challenge, a work of art, and desirable in a truly reciprocal and connected relationship.



Shoshana

 

[midwestyankee]

It is as I said in my post before...On must have both love and being in love for a true foundation for a relationship that is going to last.

MY, I agree that the actions of the partners, whether opposite or same sex or multiple, must be for the benefit of the other(s), for the most part. Once again we are wading into those murky waters of loving oneslef as well as others. I beleive that one cannot truly love (and live) until one has love for oneself.

Well, let me amend that. One can love, but one will not believe that another loves him/her if (s)he does not love him/herself. For many years as a child and adolescent, I was mentally, emotionally, and physically abused. I truly believed I was not worth loving. Although I could love others, and did, when it was offered to me, I rejected it. That rejection most likely hurt those people. I know it hurt my family. I do know that I couldn't keep friends then. That is probably why. In all honesty, though, I was incapable of accepting and appreciating the love they offered.

Some stayed around and continued to offer it to me, slowly teaching me my own worrth. Others disappeared out of my life forever. Some people showed me things about myself in love and then left. I do not believe that to love means that one has to have it returned or that it is necessarily long-term.

It is when both love and being in love are combined that a relationship may reach a long-term and permanent connection. At one moment you cannot think of anything but the person(s) you are with. In the next moment you realize they are not perfect and will probably do something to annoy you as soon as they walk through the door. Combining these feelings is what makes every day a challenge, a work of art, and desirable in a truly reciprocal and connected relationship.



Shoshana

Shoshana, much of what you said here is moving and worthy of commentary, but there is one idea I liked very much: that every day in a reciprocal and connected relationship is a work of art.

What I like about that statement is this: art is the conscious working of whatever is available for the production of truthful beauty. In a loving relationship, we work with the person we have to create something of beauty together. And if it is not truthful, then if fails.

Thanks for your eloquence on a Friday morning.