Defining Love

[midwestyankee]

Missing someone you love...

It hurts in a way that is almost indescribable...not physical pain, but a...psychich, soul pain. The feeling of being renedered, but knowing one is still whole...but incomplete. That one can go on each day, but the desire to do more than survive. The desire to live and knowing that one cannot without that person/people.

That is missing someone you love to me. I am talking about a certain type of missing, though.

Psychic pain can be terrifyingly real - sometimes more so than physical pain.

The word "rendered" is very powerful here; sometimes the power of missing someone really is eviscerating.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
It's a new week, so let's try another question to spark some conversation.

What does it feel like to you to miss someone?

To me, it can be as visceral as an empty pit where my stomach used to be. As threatening as an inability to breathe. As frightening as waking in the middle of the night from an all-too real dream with the cold sweats.

How about you?

No I don't recognize that at all...in fact I'm trying to remember what it's like to miss someone that I love. It's not that I've always had those I love near by...you can be apart for someone for many reasons....distance...death....unrequited love...some might argue that you can miss the one you love even if they're in the same room.

I just can't remember any gut wrenching over it. Maybe I adapt too easily...resign myself if it's inevitable....have too positive an attitude...sometimes if it's going to be caused by distance, the saying goodbye..trying to tear myself away, is more gut wrenching than later when we are actually apart.

Missing someone 'cause your heart's been broken, is completely different though...yes definitely done the gut wrenching on that one...don't want to go there again...not even to try to describe it.

I seem to be capable of keeping someone close to me...even if they aren't physically close...maybe that's why I'm having difficulty with this. My imagination...my positive mental attitude...not sure what you'd call it ...but it works for me.

I try to dwell on what I have or had versus what I don't have. I'm reminded of a man I loved...well still love...I only put it in the past tense 'cause he's been dead for decades...an accident when his body was never recovered....lots of tear your heart out pain...but it wasn't from missing him...it was over his senseless death and all the things we left unsaid...although I finally realized they may have been unsaid...but they were known...to this day years later...he's with me...in my heart...but it's not in a 'missing' way...but more a joyous rememberance.

Any way sorry Yank...don't know if I've answered your question...

 

[midwestyankee]

No I don't recognize that at all...in fact I'm trying to remember what it's like to miss someone that I love. It's not that I've always had those I love near by...you can be apart for someone for many reasons....distance...death....unrequited love...some might argue that you can miss the one you love even if they're in the same room.

I just can't remember any gut wrenching over it. Maybe I adapt too easily...resign myself if it's inevitable....have too positive an attitude...sometimes if it's going to be caused by distance, the saying goodbye..trying to tear myself away, is more gut wrenching than later when we are actually apart.

Missing someone 'cause your heart's been broken, is completely different though...yes definitely done the gut wrenching on that one...don't want to go there again...not even to try to describe it.

I seem to be capable of keeping someone close to me...even if they aren't physically close...maybe that's why I'm having difficulty with this. My imagination...my positive mental attitude...not sure what you'd call it ...but it works for me.

I try to dwell on what I have or had versus what I don't have. I'm reminded of a man I loved...well still love...I only put it in the past tense 'cause he's been dead for decades...an accident when his body was never recovered....lots of tear your heart out pain...but it wasn't from missing him...it was over his senseless death and all the things we left unsaid...although I finally realized they may have been unsaid...but they were known...to this day years later...he's with me...in my heart...but it's not in a 'missing' way...but more a joyous rememberance.

Any way sorry Yank...don't know if I've answered your question...

WW, as always, you taught us a lesson. There is much to be said for that positive imagination you described.

 

[midwestyankee]

WW, this line of yours has been running through my head all night.

"...some might argue that you can miss the one you love even if they're in the same room."

At first I thought, well how can that be? After all, if you're sitting in the same room together you should be able to get up, pick up her hand and look into her eyes, and regain whatever it is you were missing.

But it just ain't so - as they secretly say at the New York Times. Blame the sleeplessness if you like, but this is my take.

Something spiritual in us mates with something spiritual in our beloved. While we may make love with our bodies, they are simply a medium of communication, a means of adoration, a way of honoring that spiritual presence in the one we love. When this spiritual thing (some like to say "heart" or "soul" and I'm not sure what the best word would be but I will use "spirit" here) is in synch between two people, they find it easy to love each other. The gentle words, the loving acts, the caring thoughts happen as easily as can be. When something happens to offset them, the love isn't quite so easy.

Since this spirit is, in essence, who we are, it grows and changes over time. It is the place where we feel joy and where we suffer. It is the place where we keep our memories of all our time with our beloved. Home to all we know of our beloved, it must be free to adapt as our beloved grows and as our relationship with our beloved grows or changes.

Sometimes we grow in unexpected ways. Events over which we have no control shape our lives as much as those we do control. Sometimes we make choices that fit who we are one day and seem foolish the next. Sometimes we do things that hurt our beloved. And just as growth marks our bones and muscle, it leaves something behind on our spirit as well. Just as a wound will first scab over and then heal to a scar, internal hurts eventually turn to scars as well. And just as scars can sometimes alter the way our bodies grow, so too scars on our spirits change them.

Every growth mark, every scar on our spirit means that somehow our beloved's spirit must adapt so it can continue to mate well and pleasingly with ours. I can imagine that many times the growth, and changes, and hurts make it nearly impossible for two spirits to continue to mate pleasingly. So then, when they consider how effortlessly they once pleased each other and cannot see how to achieve that pleasure any longer, they become deeply discouraged. There is a void where once there was hope. An ache now rules in the place of joy.

Now I can imagine that sometimes these changes and these hurts can happen even as two people stay together in their relationship. Then, when one sits in a moment of reflection and the spirit reminisces at the ease and joy with which it could once please the other, that ache rises to the surface and we feel it as a sort of missing-ness. Even though our (perhaps now former) beloved is still in the same room, the spirits remember.

 

[Cathleen]

An interesting post you made Yank. I found it sad and lacking hope. Come with me on another "date" if you will please.

Why would my spirit not wish to morph with yours in all experiences? Love is a give and take but more than that I think it is growth, individually as well as a couple. My spirit would heal from the hurt you may have caused just as yours but scars do not imped growth of the spirit in my opinion. Scars or hurts can reside within us but that does not mean the ending of growing. They can give the spirit more depth.

The scar does not have to mean the end of the relationship's growth. That would be the ego I think. I don't think the spirit would wish to fail. The heart is more pure than the ego; our human condition includes the spirit but actually seems to be above being human. Spirit can live on dispite hurt and pain. It can alter our human exsistence. I think the spirit can only enhance the human condition.

Would I as your beloved wish the hurt didn't occur? Perhaps, but I wouldn't give up growth because of it. Yes, the growth can cause a divide in people but the spirit does remember as you say, so it can remember the goodness too. Our bodies are amazingly resilient, but I think our spirits are even more so. I think the spirit can see things or feel things that our human eyes cannot.

So this scar would not have to mean an end in most cases, just an opportunity to grow further as individuals and as a couple. But the choice resides in the human ego not in the spirit.

 

[DLL]

Originally posted by Cathleen
An interesting post you made Yank. I found it sad and lacking hope. Come with me on another "date" if you will please.

Why would my spirit not wish to morph with yours in all experiences? Love is a give and take but more than that I think it is growth, individually as well as a couple. My spirit would heal from the hurt you may have caused just as yours but scars do not imped growth of the spirit in my opinion. Scars or hurts can reside within us but that does not mean the ending of growing. They can give the spirit more depth.

The scar does not have to mean the end of the relationship's growth. That would be the ego I think. I don't think the spirit would wish to fail. The heart is more pure than the ego; our human condition includes the spirit but actually seems to be above being human. Spirit can live on dispite hurt and pain. It can alter our human exsistence. I think the spirit can only enhance the human condition.

Would I as your beloved wish the hurt didn't occur? Perhaps, but I wouldn't give up growth because of it. Yes, the growth can cause a divide in people but the spirit does remember as you say, so it can remember the goodness too. Our bodies are amazingly resilient, but I think our spirits are even more so. I think the spirit can see things or feel things that our human eyes cannot.

So this scar would not have to mean an end in most cases, just an opportunity to grow further as individuals and as a couple. But the choice resides in the human ego not in the spirit.

 

[midwestyankee]

Yank....come to a Yankee game with me I guarantee you will find Love at first sight

DLL, you never cease to amaze me.

To imagine that I or any Red Sox fan would find love at a Yankees game is not unlike suggesting a snowball fight on Beelzebub's home court.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
WW, this line of yours has been running through my head all night.

"...some might argue that you can miss the one you love even if they're in the same room."

At first I thought, well how can that be? After all, if you're sitting in the same room together you should be able to get up, pick up her hand and look into her eyes, and regain whatever it is you were missing.

But it just ain't so - as they secretly say at the New York Times. Blame the sleeplessness if you like, but this is my take.

Something spiritual in us mates with something spiritual in our beloved. While we may make love with our bodies, they are simply a medium of communication, a means of adoration, a way of honoring that spiritual presence in the one we love. When this spiritual thing (some like to say "heart" or "soul" and I'm not sure what the best word would be but I will use "spirit" here) is in synch between two people, they find it easy to love each other. The gentle words, the loving acts, the caring thoughts happen as easily as can be. When something happens to offset them, the love isn't quite so easy.

Since this spirit is, in essence, who we are, it grows and changes over time. It is the place where we feel joy and where we suffer. It is the place where we keep our memories of all our time with our beloved. Home to all we know of our beloved, it must be free to adapt as our beloved grows and as our relationship with our beloved grows or changes.

Sometimes we grow in unexpected ways. Events over which we have no control shape our lives as much as those we do control. Sometimes we make choices that fit who we are one day and seem foolish the next. Sometimes we do things that hurt our beloved. And just as growth marks our bones and muscle, it leaves something behind on our spirit as well. Just as a wound will first scab over and then heal to a scar, internal hurts eventually turn to scars as well. And just as scars can sometimes alter the way our bodies grow, so too scars on our spirits change them.

Every growth mark, every scar on our spirit means that somehow our beloved's spirit must adapt so it can continue to mate well and pleasingly with ours. I can imagine that many times the growth, and changes, and hurts make it nearly impossible for two spirits to continue to mate pleasingly. So then, when they consider how effortlessly they once pleased each other and cannot see how to achieve that pleasure any longer, they become deeply discouraged. There is a void where once there was hope. An ache now rules in the place of joy.

Now I can imagine that sometimes these changes and these hurts can happen even as two people stay together in their relationship. Then, when one sits in a moment of reflection and the spirit reminisces at the ease and joy with which it could once please the other, that ache rises to the surface and we feel it as a sort of missing-ness. Even though our (perhaps now former) beloved is still in the same room, the spirits remember.

Wondered if/when you were going to get to that line

You've got it exactly....expressed better than I could have though. I just know way too many married couples that still love each other but have grown so far apart, I get the impression that even when they're in the same room together, they miss the beloved they fell in love with, or the beloved they thought they married....or hoped would grow with them...but some how in their growth, they've grown apart instead of together. Sometimes it's a temporary situation and later on they end up growing together...but unfortunately it seems like most of the time they don't.

 

[midwestyankee]

An interesting post you made Yank. I found it sad and lacking hope. Come with me on another "date" if you will please.

Why would my spirit not wish to morph with yours in all experiences? Love is a give and take but more than that I think it is growth, individually as well as a couple. My spirit would heal from the hurt you may have caused just as yours but scars do not imped growth of the spirit in my opinion. Scars or hurts can reside within us but that does not mean the ending of growing. They can give the spirit more depth.

The scar does not have to mean the end of the relationship's growth. That would be the ego I think. I don't think the spirit would wish to fail. The heart is more pure than the ego; our human condition includes the spirit but actually seems to be above being human. Spirit can live on dispite hurt and pain. It can alter our human exsistence. I think the spirit can only enhance the human condition.

Would I as your beloved wish the hurt didn't occur? Perhaps, but I wouldn't give up growth because of it. Yes, the growth can cause a divide in people but the spirit does remember as you say, so it can remember the goodness too. Our bodies are amazingly resilient, but I think our spirits are even more so. I think the spirit can see things or feel things that our human eyes cannot.

So this scar would not have to mean an end in most cases, just an opportunity to grow further as individuals and as a couple. But the choice resides in the human ego not in the spirit.

You're right, Cate, there was a bit of hopelessness in this. That's because I was contemplating how one could miss someone who was in the same room. That took me to occasions when people grow apart, hurt each other irreparably, or otherwise become different enough from what they once were that the beloved is no longer recognizable - even to the spirit.

 

[Cathleen]

You're right, Cate, there was a bit of hopelessness in this. That's because I was contemplating how one could miss someone who was in the same room. That took me to occasions when people grow apart, hurt each other irreparably, or otherwise become different enough from what they once were that the beloved is no longer recognizable - even to the spirit.

I understand that, perhaps I hit the trigger too quickly.

And it is just so sad, pains me to consider such a place.

 

[midwestyankee]

I understand that, perhaps I hit the trigger too quickly.

And it is just so sad, pains me to consider such a place.

Unfortunately, it's far more common than is necessary.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by midwestyankee
Unfortunately, it's far more common than is necessary.

My point exactly....

 

[Guest]

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by Hooch
Some of you know me already from some of the less serious threads, but this is my first post here. I'd like to thank a couple of people who have extended an invitation to join y'all.

I've actually lurked here a bit, just reading and getting a feel for it all, and I have to admit, it's pretty overwhelming. This topic strikes deep into my heart, to the point of making me almost fearful of examining what's there too closely, like opening a fresh wound. I've started to post on several occasions, and then backed off, just from the sheer enormity of what I was tring to express, and Heaven knows, I can get verbose. So how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

MWY's last question, What does it feel like to you to miss someone?, has taken a twist I just cannot ignore any longer... that of missing someone who is right there beside, sometimes in the same room, often in the same bed. I could ramble on about it, but instead, I'd like to post the lyrics to Martina McBride's "Where Would You Be?" (I hope this is not a breach of thread protocol, MWY, if so, I will edit all this out.) These lyrics sum up my feelings, and my personal situation pretty well:

"Where Would You Be?"
Performed by Martina McBride
Written by Rick Ferrell, Rachel Proctor and Leslie Satcher

I wonder where your heart is
cause it sure don't feel like it's here
Sometimes I think you wish
that I would just disappear
Have I got it all wrong
Have you felt this way long
Are you already gone

Do you feel lonely
when you're here by my side
Does the sound of freedom
echoe in your mind
Do you wish you were by yourself
or that I was someone else
anyone else

(Chorus)
Where would you be
If you weren't here with me
where would you go
If you were single and free
who would you love
would it be me
Where would you be

I don't wanna hold you back
no, I don't wanna slow you down
I don't wanna make you feel
like you are tied up and bound
Cause that's not what love's about
If there's no chance we can work it out
tell me now
Oh tell me tell me now

(Repeat Chorus)

Have I become the enemy
Is it hard to be yourself
in my company

(Repeat Chorus)

oh tell me tell me now
Where would you be
Where would you go
Who would you love
Would it be me?

That's all for now.... maybe more later. This thread is tough.

Hooch welcome out of lurkdom...that is so beautiful and sad at the same time....((((((((Hooch))))))))

I'll comment more later.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hooch, welcome and thanks for joining in the discussion.

If you look back over these pages I'm not sure it's possible to glean a protocol. We've had everything here from deep discussion to drunken revelry to jealous quarrels. It's been quite a ride so far and I'm having a good time as we go. Oh, and there really isn't a driver here, we're all travelling along in our little Fred Flintstone cars with our feet and hearts providing the locomotion.

The song lyrics you posted would no doubt hit many of us rather squarely in the chest. Thanks for bringing them here.

 

[justthe2ofus43]

Its even nicer when ya search for it for most of your life and finally find it in the Most strangest of places ( thinks ya know what I mean )

i been reading this thread on and off for the past few days , to many pages to read all in a day anyhow this one struck home for me as have many others .As to why has this one struck home there is such a thing as not looking for love at all ( i was one of them ) when i got hit with it and hard and through a strange place it was as well . Im not going to write my life story here but lets just say by the year 2000 i had given up on the word love coming out of a marriage where i did not even miss him anymore when he was in the same room ( meaning I did not even miss the past we had ) .A few years went by where i mostly concentraded on surviving until a friend told me about a site online , after a conversation over not believing in love but still needing the feel of someone close here and there (yeah fuckfriends ) so to speak .My life changed a bit , i now was doing the surviving thing and making fuckfriends when time allowed it .
Hell i was Happy alone with the kids and still getting laid and having no part of a commitment hanging over my head .Till ........ i met My Love on the same site i mentioned earlier ( i will not post a link unless someone wants it they can pm me ) We talked for quite some time online and when we finnaly decided to meet it was a mind blowing expierience from the get go . Not only had we not been looking for love but we were living the same lifestyle in many ways , after about 3 meetings that were not all about Sex i knew i was in love and by the time we met for the 4th time we both were ready to admit to it as well lol . from there it just went crazy we moved in together and i know i never miss him even if he is in the same room !!! To find a mate that shares your life so completly and that you could be around 24/7 and never tire of it is what i found on a Swinger site .Not a Day goes by where i dont think about how lucky i am to have found the one for me that i was not even looking for lol . So much for not writing a long story


Anyhow love this thread and going to keep coming back to read

 

[Cathleen]

Hey Hooch!! Glad you made it!

I've been reflecting on our present discussion for the last number of days. I've been feeling quite sad and down when I allow the actuality of its exsitence enter my mind. I know we can go in different directions and still live in the same home, I was trying to will the thought away from my heart.

I still want to believe it doesn't happen, I want to belive in love. I have wished for love not to hurt but found only the experience that it does hurt. Spending years pushing the world away has given me a sort of odd view I think. In some ways I am a champion for love, but not for me. I don't need any more hurt, don't want it either. I am almost coming to some understanding of just what my life has been, what it is and shall be; its been an interesting trip.

So reading these recent posts has brought that hard side out in me once again. That place in me that says "screw it", not quite shutting down or shutting off, but not wanting anything to do with love and its hurts. I won't even contemplate the fun side of love, the goodness or it. I think I'm just going to take a pass of this part of life. I don't have to experience everything in life to have a nice and good life, it seems ok this way.

I am sorry for people living in these situations, its sad. I have to be honest here, I am glad I am not living that life. I am living a life that has some similar feelings. Perhaps I am feeling that that person next to me is in fact me. I am missing me, the potential me, the unguarded me, the one that would perhaps want love. I am not sure. I just feel as thought I am in an odd but familar place. A place from long ago.

Its as if I watch myself go down the street and around the corner, and when I catch up to myself, I am gone. An odd feeling indeed but feelings are good, I learn from them.

To those feeling that missing, I wish you well, whether finding the loved one or letting them go or just being.

 

[Cathleen]

Just the two of us..... that is a nice place you are in, thanks for sharing it. I didn't see it before I posted, I was too busy writing and such. Your is a really nice post, thanks for bring a smile to my face. I am glad for you both.

 

[midwestyankee]

Anyhow love this thread and going to keep coming back to read

Doesn't it always seem to be the case that when you are not actively looking for something, it manages to find you anyway?

Thanks for stopping by, and please do more than read when you come back again.

 

[midwestyankee]

So reading these recent posts has brought that hard side out in me once again. That place in me that says "screw it", not quite shutting down or shutting off, but not wanting anything to do with love and its hurts. I won't even contemplate the fun side of love, the goodness or it. I think I'm just going to take a pass of this part of life. I don't have to experience everything in life to have a nice and good life, it seems ok this way.

Cate, our lives are what they are. I agree that we don't have to experience everything in life to have a good life. At the same time, I hope that sometime - perhaps when your guard is down because you've forgotten why you put it up in the first place - you find a wonderful surprise smiling back at you.

 

[Cathleen]

Man was that depressing post I made. I want to delete it but I won't because its past now.

Thanks Yank!

 

[midwestyankee]

Man was that depressing post I made. I want to delete it but I won't because its past now.

Thanks Yank!

It's fate, Cate..

I love the Renoir av, by the way.

 

[Cathleen]

It's fate, Cate..

I love the Renoir av, by the way.

Fate smate.... its me and my dang brain!!

I was fortunate to see all three of the "Dancing" pieces at the MFA in Boston! Three of my favorite pieces of the Impressionists Era. Just beautiful!

 

[Cathleen]

I found a way to turn those thoughts and emotions to a good place. I was reading yet again from Seat of the Soul about power. Not a power of one over another but of the power, the energy, of the soul.

Our souls have energy and we communicate through this energy. We physically feel when our soul is out of synch with our life. I have also read many of Bernie Segel's books about health and love and connections. At first I was totally resisting the connection because of my health problems. I certainly did not want to be the cause of those illnesses. I still don't but I can understand more now that I am a cause.

Both tell of the connection between say anxiety and a physical pain in the solar plexus or the connection of fears surrounding love and the heart. My major health problem is my heart, no big surprise to me now!

So, back to the power or actually the fear we feel. So many times I've been afraid, physically as well as emotionally. But I can now feel fine with fear, with any emotion actually. I lived so long without emotion that now I've come to have them all and I'm not giving them up for anything. I value them all. I know they will pass, but I know more that they teach me.

I can remember, as many of you may too, hearing the words "Don't feel that", well, now I can say, "why not?" its only a feeling. Its not going to kill me, or you. It will not harm me, its my conscious and unconscious helping me to learn.

The soul that learns is the soul that grows. I do not ever want to supress an emotion or feeling again. Its harmful to me and to my growth. I do not want to be artifical. I only want the energy of my soul to grow and learn and interact.

So my post today was good for me, it was a feeling I was having, and perhaps will have again and again. But I know it is just that, a feeling, a thought, and they pass through me, teaching as they go. Power of the soul.... very cool!

 

[Guest]