Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Thanks to sly!

Bush and his vice-president are two such men in their blood demand for Iraq war even though they sneaked out of any actual miltary service. such as Bush fearlessly search the blue sky of Texas for any dirty, rotton Red Chinesse planes having a sneak attack during Vietnam War in "honorable" service to Texas National Guard. Same thing with Republican John Rockfeller who stronly support the civil war in order to get hand on all those tax dollars (South was the cash cow back then and North the poor backwater) but turned around and pay $300 (about $3,000 today) to avoid the draft. Which mean the poor Irishs get the honor of getting killed. Men who actually kill in war tends to be very slow in actually starting a fight because they know there are some thing you can't undo.

Finally, the main reason this novel read like a fascist novel is that it is really a novel about the miltary culture, not future or earth. It's about how one Latino boy decided to join the marines in spite of his wealthy, non-voter father's wishes, and how he must learn how to become strong in both spirit and body, and even more vital how he learn to behave properly as both independent human AND warrior in such a way that ensure his own survial and the survival of his corps. None of the important idea about miltary culture is new, most of stuff are what Heinlein learned when studying at Annapolis's Navel Academy. Much of the themes in this novel is also covered in "Tunnel in the Sky" and "Starman Jones".

That's my imput!

Pilgrim,

You have certainly opened this thread to a current and controversial topic. I certainly think that any politician who proposes a war should be one who has actually fought in a war. They are much less likely to pursue military action. And not until ALL other means have TRULY been tried and exhausted.

Since you have raised the issue, can ANYBODY give me ONE LEGITIMATE reason our nation NEEDS to go to war with Iraq? As a nation, they have NO means of delivering any weapons of mass destruction to our shores (if they even have any such weapons, which the U. N. Inspectors have yet to find). Their SCUD missles can't even reach Europe, let alone the United States.

Other than ratlling old sabers, avenging Daddy Bush, and turning the public's attention from the economy, what IS the point?

Back to "Starship Troopers", I agree the novel is NOT about a political or governmental system. It is much more concerned with military service and military culture.

Heinlein was a libertarian (not the small "l") and a logical thinker. He was pragmatic, fitting neither the "conservative" nor "liberal" lables so much in vogue today. We need more such free thinkers instead of being a nation who follows the polls and the curse of "political correctness".

 

[KHAN-E]

[B Society might just be the problem.

Once I finish Kipiling, I'll pick up Heinlein. [/B]

Heinlein presented such a view through his character, Lazarus Long. In "Time Enough for Love", Lazarus presents the idea that any society that requires the identification of its citizens has grown to large and too controlling. It is best to move on.

As you have noted, "Money" is a problem. But the challenge is NOT insurmountable. There are still places where the "Barter" system is in use. And those societies manage to function with less economic distruption than those utilizing artificial financial systems.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Money and Mind

[BThanks, Sensual. Have a good night. Have you ever thought about being a lawyer? You have the art of retoric down. [/B]

Don't go insulting my friend that way!!! LOL!!!

 

[RomanHans]

Hey Sensual...

Thanks for the excellent analysis--much more fair treatment of Heinlein than my little 2 cents' worth. I still believe that 'conservative' sci-fi writers like Jerry Pournelle took Heinlein's lead and sort of perverted it to justify strictly libertarian views of utopia.

What's also interesting is to read some of Heinlein's non-scifi works--I can't remember the title of the compilation I once had, but it included a depiction of a small-town political election, with an independent thinker running against the local political machine, and also Heinlein's testimony to a Congressional committee on the benefits of the space program, based on the technologies used to help him recover from a stroke.

Roman

 

[SlyFox]

Heinlein presented such a view through his character, Lazarus Long. In "Time Enough for Love", Lazarus presents the idea that any society that requires the identification of its citizens has grown to large and too controlling. It is best to move on.

As you have noted, "Money" is a problem. But the challenge is NOT insurmountable. There are still places where the "Barter" system is in use. And those societies manage to function with less economic distruption than those utilizing artificial financial systems.

I just finished re-reading "Methusela's Children" and "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" and went to pull out my copy of "Time Enough For Love" only to discover that it seems to have disappeared into the vast reaches of my library and I can't find it now... My local library is trying to locate a copy for me in the meantime, so guess I'll just have to content myself with re-reading "I Will Fear No Evil" - another one of my many "favorite" Heinlein books...

There are still places where the "Barter" system is in use. And those societies manage to function with less economic distruption than those utilizing artificial financial systems.

I made a determined effort in the late 70's and early 80's to actually live in such a society - particularly with "The Harrad Community" in the San Francisco Bay area. That was a small group of people dedicated to the principles of Heinlein (especially "Stranger in a Strange Land") Robert Rimmer (author of "The Harrad Experiment" and "Proposition 31") and to lesser degree Ayn Rand. Unfortunately, although the concept was good, the "reality" was far more difficult to maintain and the group eventually disbanded and I reluctantly returned to coping with our "capitalistic" society... But what an exciting and stimulating experience that brief sojurn was for me...

SlyFox

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Labels

Pilgrim,
Heinlein was a libertarian (not the small "l") and a logical thinker. He was pragmatic, fitting neither the "conservative" nor "liberal" lables so much in vogue today. We need more such free thinkers instead of being a nation who follows the polls and the curse of "political correctness".

Upon reflection, I think that while Heinlein was a libertarian, it's much more important to understand that he is an individualist in which an individual's freedom and happiness, honestly and intelliently earned, is far more important than any social group, even family. Unlike fascists or even some of both liberals and conservatives today, he is strongly againet draft and prison system and slavery because they all deny a man's freedom to chose hs own fate and are all part of the same slave mindset. Thinking back on Starship Troopers, one of the more striking part of that story is about a recuirt being put on a fast court-martial for striking his trainer. After he recklessly told the superior officer that he hit his teacher, he was whipped and kicked out without honor. After that, the officer told the teacher that normally he would not pay heel to the boy's angry reaction at his teacher because it's not easy to get used to the harsh boot camp which MUST be harsh because a marine must fight and run over great many hostile enviroment in order to survive. He and teacher would let that pass. But a boy flatly stated that he did hit his teacher which then force the officer to take action because an officer who know about this action and did nothing would endanger the discipline of the whole corps and that cannot be allowed. The officer gave the boy many chanchs to retract his statement in order to avoid being whipped and ban without honor. But the boy insisted on the fact and so the officer have no choice but to whip him. The point is that even in Starship Troopers, even a humble boot camp recruit have a choice about his life. He can complain, he can quit, he can lose his temper in trying times, or take the risk of serious punishment. He can be smart or stupid. He chose to be stupid which make him unfit for the service in officer's eye.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

What's the title?

Hey Sensual...

Thanks for the excellent analysis--much more fair treatment of Heinlein than my little 2 cents' worth. I still believe that 'conservative' sci-fi writers like Jerry Pournelle took Heinlein's lead and sort of perverted it to justify strictly libertarian views of utopia.

What's also interesting is to read some of Heinlein's non-scifi works--I can't remember the title of the compilation I once had, but it included a depiction of a small-town political election, with an independent thinker running against the local political machine, and also Heinlein's testimony to a Congressional committee on the benefits of the space program, based on the technologies used to help him recover from a stroke.

Roman

That would be "The Bathroom of Her Own" about a independant woman who want to do something about serious housing shortage for the returning GIs after WW2 and decided to run for it. It's a very clever commentary on how politices are actually played. (No surprise, Heinlein ran for a city office very early on) The speech is called "Spinoffs." They both appeared in Expanded Universe.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Moeny, money, money....oooooh my!

I made a determined effort in the late 70's and early 80's to actually live in such a society - particularly with "The Harrad Community" in the San Francisco Bay area. That was a small group of people dedicated to the principles of Heinlein (especially "Stranger in a Strange Land") Robert Rimmer (author of "The Harrad Experiment" and "Proposition 31") and to lesser degree Ayn Rand. Unfortunately, although the concept was good, the "reality" was far more difficult to maintain and the group eventually disbanded and I reluctantly returned to coping with our "capitalistic" society... But what an exciting and stimulating experience that brief sojurn was for me...

SlyFox

This difficulties with banter is the main reason why the free market create money. There is nothing wrong with money because it was born as a solution to the problem of one man having a cow and needing a horse and another man who have a good horse but don't need a cow as he already have three. The solution was for the first man to find out what the second man really need. He need salt (very pricey in those day, often more worth than gold in some places which is where the expression "he's worth the salt" come from.) So the first man seek out a third man and find a woman who have salt to trade for a cow. So, even though the first man don't need salt, he gladly traded cow for salt. Then he take the salt to the second man tou buy his horse. This way, the salt become "money" to both parties. If commodity like salt is highly demanded, is easily divided and weighted fairly it become the money for this community. Over long cultural evolution many commodities were used as money, including wheat, cotton, oil, salt, flour. But gold eventually became the most popular commodity because of its rarity, its wide varisty of use from decoration to industrial uses, its easy portability, and its ease of being weighted true to ensure its trustworthiness (also gold coins can bend easily which is why old movies have men biting the coins). And that is how we get money. It's all the result of different individuals making their choices over time and the best solution emerged via evolution. Government have nothing to do with it at all, except for its talent for just taking it one way or another.

 

[KHAN-E]

I'll just have to content myself with re-reading "I Will Fear No Evil" - another one of my many "favorite" Heinlein books...



I made a determined effort in the late 70's and early 80's to actually live in such a society - particularly with "The Harrad Community" in the San Francisco Bay area. That was a small group of people dedicated to the principles of Heinlein (especially "Stranger in a Strange Land") Robert Rimmer (author of "The Harrad Experiment" and "Proposition 31") and to lesser degree Ayn Rand. Unfortunately, although the concept was good, the "reality" was far more difficult to maintain and the group eventually disbanded and I reluctantly returned to coping with our "capitalistic" society... But what an exciting and stimulating experience that brief sojurn was for me...

SlyFox

"I Will Fear No Evil" is also one of my favorites. Heinlein's exploration of sex roles and societal mores is both fascinating and funny.

My understanding, based upon Reasearch rather than personal experience (which you have), is that "The Harrad Community" and other such U. S. communal systems were still entrenched in a capitalist society, involved in the marketplace for goods they could not manufacture.

As such, their economic ideals were, in many ways, compromised from their very inception. They were forced to "deal" in a society they were attempting to escape.

My reference was to those aboriginal societies which operate strictly by barter. I will readily admit many drawbacks to such societies. (Lit. is not available, for one.) But they are not subject to monetary fluctuations - inflation, recession, depression.

That was the point I was trying (though not succeeding) in making.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Moeny, money, money....oooooh my!

This difficulties with banter is the main reason why the free market create money. There is nothing wrong with money because it was born as a solution to the problem of one man having a cow and needing a horse and another man who have a good horse but don't need a cow as he already have three. The solution was for the first man to find out what the second man really need. He need salt (very pricey in those day, often more worth than gold in some places which is where the expression "he's worth the salt" come from.) So the first man seek out a third man and find a woman who have salt to trade for a cow. So, even though the first man don't need salt, he gladly traded cow for salt. Then he take the salt to the second man tou buy his horse. This way, the salt become "money" to both parties. If commodity like salt is highly demanded, is easily divided and weighted fairly it become the money for this community. Over long cultural evolution many commodities were used as money, including wheat, cotton, oil, salt, flour. But gold eventually became the most popular commodity because of its rarity, its wide varisty of use from decoration to industrial uses, its easy portability, and its ease of being weighted true to ensure its trustworthiness (also gold coins can bend easily which is why old movies have men biting the coins). And that is how we get money. It's all the result of different individuals making their choices over time and the best solution emerged via evolution. Government have nothing to do with it at all, except for its talent for just taking it one way or another.

An excellent review of moentary history and philosophy. As far as it goes. However, Pilgrim, you did not go far enough. At some point in time (I did not research the date) our Government stopped using a Gold and Silver Standards.

Instead they began to merely publish paper currency with NOTHING to back to issue of that currency. Now every industrialized nation has followed suit. So money has NO intrinsic value. It is only worth what our "Money Market" say it is worth.

You did make the point earlier that the Government simply issues IOU's. But the fact is that the Government cannot satisfy those IOU's if they are ever called for payment. There is NOTHING behind the paper!

And, even worse, now that we have fully entered the computer age, most moentary transfers and transactions don't even utilize the paper. There is more "money" in bank accounts than there is "currency" in circulation.

If we ever had a "bank run", as in 1929, the entire system would fail!

That is why barter, or some system of multiple barter, as in your "salt" story, is, in many ways, preferable to our current "contrived" economy.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Moeny, money, money....oooooh my!

If we ever had a "bank run", as in 1929, the entire system would fail!

That is why barter, or some system of multiple barter, as in your "salt" story, is, in many ways, preferable to our current "contrived" economy.

The reason, I did not covered governments' devaluation of money was that their actions are about debasement, not invention of money. That's why.

Since we are on this subject, let me frankly stated that I am a capitalist, one who believe in free movement of goods and people with no state involvement (including corporate welfare). The debasment of dollar is serious, but the state's involvement warped the economy even more than that. They also created an central bank system, the Federal Reserve Bank system in our case, which allow their member banks (who, if I'm right, must be members of the system by law). The central bank gives the member banks permission to give out loans that far excess their reserves. Any failure by banks to recover their assets in time of need can cause bank failure. Central bank's job is to prevent that bankrupty of the member banks with both inflation (by ordering the US Treasury to print out more dollar bills than is actually covered by assets) and by bailout (by Congress's bill ordering more taxes to pay for the mistakes of the stupid few).

(While I'm this topic of banking, let me say first that a bank is a business in which the owners expect to make money. I don't have a problem with their loaning which is how they make their profits by interests. I merely expect them to be on top of their loaning with tight bookkeeping and by not taking poor risks. If one bank do his job poorly, then he should be forced out of business by the depositors who are the rightful owners of the bank's reserves. But with central bank's protection, too many banks take unwise risks.)

Worst, yet, the state is inflating and taxing in greater amounts over time. In addition, the government's regulation is adding to the actual cost. That means a product you buy today, at least 80% of the price you pay go to pay for taxes and regulations. The rest pay for the actual cost and margins. In other word, without tax, regulations and with gold-backed money, a Heinlein book could be worth 25 cents now. That book could even be cheaper if the publisher was allow to economize his process to the highest level with things like hemp paper which is much cheaper and easier to havest than wood pulp.

Let me put it another way, a dollar today have same value as a nickle in 1901.

But there are many ways to manage your money however inflated. That means even now you don'thave to be totally exposed at the mercy of money storms. But it will take applying yourself to unlearns many myths and to learn new knowledge about money. First step is to know that money is created by positive relationship between you and other parties. Then there are many ways to depost your money in account such as e-gold.com which have 100% gold reserves. You can also create a team for yourself made up of lawyer, accountant, broker, businessmen and other who can share their knowledge of how welath is made and protected so that you can increase the power of your assest by making the money work 24/7 for you rather than you working for money 8/5. If you want, I can PM you a list of simple books to get a start. But if you want to know more about money and how economics work, try Murray Rothbard for very interesting insights. I think he can be very extreemist when discussing solutions, but for how the system was created and how it work today, there's nobody better than him. Plus he's a wonderful passionate writer.

What would be an ideal money system for me? I believe that first thing is that the state must get out of both coining and banking business. The state must also be denied the power to tax incomes. We would be better off if we have a free competition in money in which there are many sources for coins, cards, and so forth with the best provider eventually setting the standards, much like in DVDs and computer today. I believe that there should be an international gold standard in which all prices and payment are weighted in grams of gold. There would be NO need for exchange system, different names for money (all of which are actually different names for the weights anyway with the word "dollar" coming from th Spanish word "thaller" which refered to a weight of silver.) If a German want to buy my art, I say "5 grams of gold" and he would email me an key by which I can wirelessly draw his 5 grams of gold for my payment. Any company caught faking money would be punished swiftly and surely, which is what we can't do with the state today. I believe also that the banking system should be broken up and free banking allow many banks to innovate to swin or sink by themselves without dragging other banks with them. It's better to have a fleet of many independent ships than putting all our assets in one Titanic build by the Feds. Lastly, by denying the power to tax income, the state will lack a serious source of money they need to force people to use their money the way they want it to be done. It also will seriously limits their reckless warring.

 

[KHAN-E]

Pilgrim Strikes Again

WOW!!!

Pilgrim,

Is there any subject about which you know LESS than me?! I'm beginning to wonder.

I'm tempted to let you have the last word.

However, you stated one greivous error in you last post.

A Heinlein book would never be "worth" a quarter. While it may only "cost" a quarter in the system you outline, it's true worth, being the words, thoughts, and ideas of a truly great mind, would be far above the cost of the paper and ink.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Pilgrim Strikes Again

WOW!!!

Pilgrim,

Is there any subject about which you know LESS than me?! I'm beginning to wonder.

I'm tempted to let you have the last word.

However, you stated one greivous error in you last post.

A Heinlein book would never be "worth" a quarter. While it may only "cost" a quarter in the system you outline, it's true worth, being the words, thoughts, and ideas of a truly great mind, would be far above the cost of the paper and ink.

I hang my head in shame. Yes, his book would cost a 25 cents but its worth would be priceless. So kick my ass for casting pearls before the swine!

There IS one subject I am too bad at. I know shit nothing about being a woman!

Carl

 

[sensualpilgrim]

This I Believe by Heinlein

"THIS I BELIEVE"
by Robert A. Heinlein
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A. Heinlein wrote this item in 1952. His wife, Virginia Heinlein, chose to read it when she accepted NASA's Distinguished Public Service Medal on October 6, 1988, on the Grand Master's behalf (it was a posthumous award).
Mrs. Heinlein received a standing ovation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am not going to talk about religious beliefs but about matters so obvious that it has gone out of style to mention them. I believe in my neighbors. I know their faults, and I know that their virtues far outweigh their faults. "Take Father Michael down our road a piece. I'm not of his creed, but I know that goodness and charity and lovingkindness shine in his daily actions. I believe in Father Mike. If I'm in trouble, I'll go to him."

"My next-door neighbor is a veterinary doctor. Doc will get out of bed after a hard day to help a stray cat. No fee--no prospect of a fee--I believe in Doc.

"I believe in my townspeople. You can know on any door in our town saying, 'I'm hungry,' and you will be fed. Our town is no exception. I've found the same ready charity everywhere. But for the one who says, 'To heck with you - I got mine,' there are a hundred, a thousand who will say, "Sure, pal, sit down."

"I know that despite all warnings against hitchhikers I can step up to the highway, thumb for a ride and in a few minutes a car or a truck will stop and someone will say, 'Climb in Mac - how far you going?'

"I believe in my fellow citizens. Our headlines are splashed with crime yet for every criminal there are 10,000 honest, decent, kindly men. If it were not so, no child would live to grow up. Business could not go on from day to day. Decency is not news. It is buried in the obituaries, but is a force stronger than crime. I believe in the patient gallentry of nurses and the tedious sacrifices of teachers. I believe in the unseen and unending fight against desperate odds that goes on quietly in almost every home in the land.

"I believe in the honest craft of workmen. Take a look around you. There never were enough bosses to check up on all that work. From Independence Hall to the Grand Coulee Dam, these things were built level and square by craftsmen who were honest in their bones.

"I believe that almost all politicians are honest. . .there are hundreds of politicians, low paid or not paid at all, doing their level best without thanks or glory to make our system work. If this were not true we would never have gotten past the 13 colonies.

"I believe in Rodger Young. You and I are free today because of endless unnamed heroes from Valley Forge to the Yalu River. I believe in -- I am proud to belong to -- the United States. Despite shortcomings from lynchings to bad faith in high places, our nation has had the most decent and kindly internal practices and foreign policies to be found anywhere in history.

"And finally, I believe in my whole race. Yellow, white, black, red, brown. In the honesty, courage, intelligence, durability, and goodness of the overwhelming majority of my brothers and sisters everywhere on this planet. I am proud to be a human being. I believe that we have come this far by the skin of our teeth. That we always make it just by the skin of our teeth, but that we will always make it. Survive. Endure. I believe that this hairless embryo with the aching, oversize brain case and the opposable thumb, this animal barely up from the apes will endure. Will endure longer than his home planet -- will spread out to the stars and beyond, carrying with him his honesty and his insatiable curiosity, his unlimited courage and his noble essential decency.

"This I believe with all my heart."

 

[SlyFox]

Virginia Heinlein's message

Great post "pilgrim"... That's something I had not read before. Virginia was obviously RAH's true "sole mate" in all things...

Thanks for posting it.

SlyFox

 

[kayte]

Having just finished Heinlein's "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" and discussing some of his more "controversial" ideas on another thread, I decided to start a thread devoted just to Heinlein and his works... Especially the "Lasurus Long" series.

R.A.H. had a most profound and life changing influence on me the first time I read "Stranger In A Strange Land". Even participated in a "Water Ceremony" group marriage. Unfortunately, (or fortunately - depending on your point of view) that didn't last very long.

I was really pissed when he up and died on us in 1988 at the ripe old age of 88. He was supposed to be immortal wasn't he???

If anyone's interested I've found some other fascinating web sites about this wonderful and remarkable man that I will be happy to share.

Hope to hear from all you Heinlein fans out there...

SlyFox

SlyFox ~ Thank you four starting such a wonderful thread here. It requires several visits, if not more to digest. Like his books.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

SlyFox ~ Thank you four starting such a wonderful thread here. It requires several visits, if not more to digest. Like his books.

Hey Kayte! Good to see that you join us! How is the bad catholic girl cumming along?

Pilgrim

 

[kayte]

Re: Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

Hey Kayte! Good to see that you join us! How is the bad catholic girl cumming along?

Pilgrim

Pilgrim ~ Is there any other kind of Cathlic girl? I am doing just fine, thank you.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

Pilgrim ~ Is there any other kind of Catholic girl? I am doing just fine, thank you.

I was under impression that there was good catholic girls who want nothing more thann to be a good wife and mother with 5 kids and a skirt that cover her legs and then there's nuns....

 

[kayte]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

I was under impression that there was good catholic girls who want nothing more thann to be a good wife and mother with 5 kids and a skirt that cover her legs and then there's nuns....

Definitely not me, Pilgrim. Guess I am a 'bad' one.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Pilgrim Strikes Again

I hang my head in shame. Yes, his book would cost a 25 cents but its worth would be priceless. So kick my ass for casting pearls before the swine!

There IS one subject I am too bad at. I know shit nothing about being a woman!

Carl

Read "I Will Fear No Evil". I am FIRMLY convinced that Virginia helped write that book. Heinlein did too good a job as the man-becums-woman to not have had extensive input from a woman.

It looks like for ONCE I got the last word, Pilgrim. I want to print and frame your post. It is probably the only time I will have the last word with you.

But be not dismayed. I LUV your brilliant mind. And your erotic imagination.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: This I Believe by Heinlein

"THIS I BELIEVE"
by Robert A. Heinlein
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A. Heinlein wrote this item in 1952. His wife, Virginia Heinlein, chose to read it when she accepted NASA's Distinguished Public Service Medal on October 6, 1988, on the Grand Master's behalf (it was a posthumous award).
Mrs. Heinlein received a standing ovation.

Thanks soooo much for sharing this. It shows the essense of Heinlein.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

Definitely not me, Pilgrim. Guess I am a 'bad' one.

Did you smoke and flash that cute tits of yours at catholic school?

 

[SlyFox]

Re: Re: Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

SlyFox ~ Thank you four starting such a wonderful thread here. It requires several visits, if not more to digest. Like his books.

Hi Kayte... You're more than welcome. It was my pleasue. I'm currently re-reading "Time Enough For Love" so I'll be looking for the line that you use in your signature.

Originally posted by kayte Definitely not me, Pilgrim. Guess I am a 'bad' one.[/B]

I guess my loving wife would have to qualify as a 'bad' one too. Hasn't been back in a church since she found out what sex was really about. Guess that makes her a 'good' one right? No kids and short skirts

SlyFox

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Re: Pilgrim Strikes Again

Read "I Will Fear No Evil". I am FIRMLY convinced that Virginia helped write that book. Heinlein did too good a job as the man-becums-woman to not have had extensive input from a woman.

It looks like for ONCE I got the last word, Pilgrim. I want to print and frame your post. It is probably the only time I will have the last word with you.

But be not dismayed. I LUV your brilliant mind. And your erotic imagination.

Stop flattering me Connie, I know that you would love to throw me to the floor with a well-chosen sharp words and a couple of judo moves..before you start to kiss me like a hungry sex kitten that you are. My mind may excite your respects but it's my imagination that stirred the hornets in your womb!