collar of Consideration, Training collar, final or slave collar

[FungiUg]

Though one does not have to exist at the exclusion of the other.

Catalina

Of course not. But I personally don't care about the symbolism... I do care about the slut over my knee begging to be spanked.

I guess if I had a submissive who was dead keen on the symbolic meaning of a collar... nah, not even then. I'd just tell her to get a life!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Of course not. But I personally don't care about the symbolism... I do care about the slut over my knee begging to be spanked.

I guess if I had a submissive who was dead keen on the symbolic meaning of a collar... nah, not even then. I'd just tell her to get a life!

That's sad.

C

 

[FungiUg]

That's sad.

Sad? How so?

Okay, let me explain a bit about my past so you get an idea of why I'm not into symbolism.

I came from a very religious childhood -- pentecostal christianity, and they bellieved all sorts of things like numerology, iconism, and some of the wierdest oddball beliefs you can imagine. (as an example, my mother died of breast cancer untreated, because modern medicine is "evil"... and my step father assured us that she would be resurrected physically in four days time.)

In my late teens, as part of art history, I studied religious symbolism in art, and got a better idea of just how complicated and nonsensical (to a scientific culture) sybolism can become (in one hand he is holding wheat, and in the other a cup of wine, and he is standing with his face half in shadow, and there is a half moon in the window...)

As a confirmed agnostic adult, I choose not to deal in symboligy of any form. It's a personal decision that fits in with my spiritual beliefs and my world view.

So... sad? I don't feel it as such. I don't think I am losing anything by not attaching significance to a ring, or a collar, or any other symbol signifying a personal commitment. After all, I have the relationship and commitment, and for me, the reality rather than the symbol is what is important.

Sure, I understand other people are different, and I don't disregard that. But I thought I'd just put my oar in and make the point that not all of us regard collars as important.

And don't get me wrong... I still think a collar looks great on a submissive slut! As kinky wear, I love it!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sad? How so?

Okay, let me explain a bit about my past so you get an idea of why I'm not into symbolism.

I came from a very religious childhood -- pentecostal christianity, and they bellieved all sorts of things like numerology, iconism, and some of the wierdest oddball beliefs you can imagine. (as an example, my mother died of breast cancer untreated, because modern medicine is "evil"... and my step father assured us that she would be resurrected physically in four days time.)

In my late teens, as part of art history, I studied religious symbolism in art, and got a better idea of just how complicated and nonsensical (to a scientific culture) sybolism can become (in one hand he is holding wheat, and in the other a cup of wine, and he is standing with his face half in shadow, and there is a half moon in the window...)

As a confirmed agnostic adult, I choose not to deal in symboligy of any form. It's a personal decision that fits in with my spiritual beliefs and my world view.

So... sad? I don't feel it as such. I don't think I am losing anything by not attaching significance to a ring, or a collar, or any other symbol signifying a personal commitment. After all, I have the relationship and commitment, and for me, the reality rather than the symbol is what is important.

Sure, I understand other people are different, and I don't disregard that. But I thought I'd just put my oar in and make the point that not all of us regard collars as important.

And don't get me wrong... I still think a collar looks great on a submissive slut! As kinky wear, I love it!

I can respect your view as yours, but what I found sad was the scenario you gave could be involving another who felt deeply for you and may not understand or have complete knowledge of your thoughts on this issue, and on giving their submission in trust and expressing for them what may be a huge commitment, to then be told to get a life.....IMHO that to me would destroy trust for a start and leave me feeling abused and belittled which I do not think is responsible or caring.

Catalina

 

[FungiUg]

what I found sad was the scenario you gave could be involving another who felt deeply for you and may not understand or have complete knowledge of your thoughts on this issue, and on giving their submission in trust and expressing for them what may be a huge commitment, to then be told to get a life.

Ah... well, the thing is I am very unlikely to get that involved with someone who is seriously into symbolism. It'd drive me insane! So I was being facetious... and I can't ever see that particular scenario arising.

I'm not shy about explaining what I believe and why either. (As you may have noticed.)

Hmmm... okay, if it were to happen, I'd go for some middle ground. I've done this before. When I got engaged, I wore a necklace which was a gift from my fiancee which was a crucifix necklace. For me, it had no symbolism other than it was a gift from my fiancee, but I suspect it meant more than that to my fiancee.

I wouldn't object to giving a piece of jewellery to a submissive with a suitable inscription, so perhaps that would be a suitable middle ground? Who knows.

As I said, not likely to ever happen.

 

[le_kinklet]

I do

As a submissive, Yes, i do agree with a collaring system. It gives a girl something to work too, like a motivation kind of thing.
Collar of Consideration: It also sets clear boundaries in the relationship until a much better understanding of each other is reached.
Training Collar: You are obviously right for each other is now just further training to fine tune the skills of both Dominant and submissive.
Final or slave Collar: The fine tuning is done, it is now time to learn and grow and progress in the relationship, eg: pushing boundaries, learning absolute limits, or even to learn how to drop those absolute boundaries.

Just my opinion.
~HuGs~

 

[Arden]

Two weekends ago, after 9 months of a close and steady growth in our relationship, at a weekend bdsm event, Sir gave me his training collar. Neither he nor I approach this type of thing lightly. I think of it as kind of similar to the vanilla "getting engaged."

To me it was a public way of acknowledging what we already knew about the strength of our relationship, but a step that was wonderful.

- justina

Congratulations, Justina! I am so happy for the two of you!

 

[Lady_In_Black]

Oh man, this thread is 8 years old. If I should not be posting in it, please let me know, and I do apologise.

On to my actual comment:

I think one thing that I am insistent on is flexibility. I do like the idea of different types of collars, but I don't really connect with the idea of "You have reached this land mark, time to change your jewellery, my whimpering sex minion!"

I do however, see the benefits of different collars for different reasons. I am into a more 24/7 life style and if my new partner and I have just reached the "Lets get nasty in the bedroom/kitchen/whathaveyou!" and we are just playing around but they still want the head space of being owned or submitting to me, I'm all for a slightly uncomfortable, easily removable, completely safe collar just for play. Like putting on a pair of nylons and lipstick, just for play.

Or if the relationship is more serious then that; we know and trust each other, but the relationship is still young, perhaps graduate onto something more permanent? Like a unique bracelet or a simple ring or a collar, simply so when they wear it, they are reminded of me and my affection and attachment to them, and of that and their submission to me. It could even be something so small as a braided "friendship" style bracelet I've made for them. Maybe it's wound around one of my hairs?

And then if things escalate further, why not something precious and irreplaceable that I alone will remove, if I see fit (or it needs a cleaning!) that symbolises their devotion to me, and my devotion to them in turn? Maybe even a set of things, one for the each of us. A collar and ring set that have the same in graving, to symbolise our different places in the relationship as well as our devotion?

Those are just my thoughts, cause I like talking to myself in old, dead threads so I can get the moderators disapproval and then run like hell.

(I don't really want to upset any moderator! I, er, love you all?)

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

"You have reached this land mark, time to change your jewellery, my whimpering sex minion!"

I think posting in old threads should be allowed, if you can post quality like this.

 

[Lady_In_Black]

I think posting in old threads should be allowed, if you can post quality like this.

Oh god. *social anxiety* Are you being facetious/sarcastic or serious and playful?

(I really don't want to be breaking any rules. I just thought it was a nice conversational thread, and so many on the main page are masturbation fodder with little actual conversation to be had.

Not that I hate masturbation fodder!)

((Man, and I call myself a PYL. >_<)

 

[Honed_Hunger]

I'm all about reaction/cause & effect. While I don't feel uber Domly If I place a collar of any kind on my sub's neck,if it aids her in stepping deeper into her role............I will go with a scene collar,again,for how it affects her/her sub mindset.

I can't be objective on the Master/slave collaring dynamic. I have yet to meet a sub who had the desire, and the abilty to hand over that level of trust and/or power to me as her Master.

Until I see slave material kneeling before me,I won't worry If I'm cut out to be a Master or not.

 

[MisterSir]

...well, I've considered her already and she's never going to stop learning, so no? I'll put her collar on because it looks pretty or because I need a way to keep her moving that doesn't involve pulling of the hair or because she's been good and it'd make her smile or because I fucking feel like it, where that answer fits into the above poll I don't know.

 

[ecstaticsub]

A collar is a commitment. The different collars do not apply at all to my relationship. For us my collars are just physical implements used as points of attachment or to serve as a reminder of my place.

When I made the commitment to obey and submit to my PYL I received a ring. But that too is just a material object. My commitment itself is my "collar".

 

[chy_girl]

A collar is a commitment. The different collars do not apply at all to my relationship. For us my collars are just physical implements used as points of attachment or to serve as a reminder of my place.

When I made the commitment to obey and submit to my PYL I received a ring. But that too is just a material object. My commitment itself is my "collar".

For me, the day collar (or necklace, by appearances) was the material object. It was the tangible symbol that the emotional leash created my submission to them was tied to.

You know, I've heard some people talk about it "just being a collar" and I've heard people talk about only having and wanting play collars. Hell, I've even known someone who only wanted their collar when they wanted their collar. And it's great if that works for them. But my collar was like an appendage. It was a physically way of keeping them with me even though they were never, ever out of my thoughts. I couldn't imagine not having that piece of something - be it bracelet, ring, or necklace - that I could touch throughout the day when I miss them or find something that reminds me of them... Whoever the future "them" may be...

 

[CeriseNin]

I can see having different collars for day wear, night, etc. But if someone said they wanted me to wear a 'collar of consideration' I would tell them to consider getting lost. Also, it stinks to have tangible evidence that you are a "maybe".

 

[eastern sun]

I can see having different collars for day wear, night, etc. But if someone said they wanted me to wear a 'collar of consideration' I would tell them to consider getting lost. Also, it stinks to have tangible evidence that you are a "maybe".

I don't agree. I haven't been in relationships that used formal collar systems, but I can recognize the stages of the relationship they are defining.

There's a period during which you're getting to know each other, when it is a clearly defined relationship, but it isn't definite that you're going to go the distance. The "collar of consideration" period is as much an opportunity for the submissive to say "maybe" as the dominant.

In my recent experience, this is the period where we both said "you're at the top of my short list," and I jokingly said "well, we can only fuck it up from here on out."

And then there is a distinct stage in the relationship where you being training.

That's the point where I feel more insecure as a submissive, because it still isn't clear that I'll be able to become all that will be required of me. How we both handle the insecurity, the behavioral changes, "the training," ultimately determines whether we're going to be successful partners.

 

[CeriseNin]

I don't agree. I haven't been in relationships that used formal collar systems, but I can recognize the stages of the relationship they are defining.

There's a period during which you're getting to know each other, when it is a clearly defined relationship, but it isn't definite that you're going to go the distance. The "collar of consideration" period is as much an opportunity for the submissive to say "maybe" as the dominant.

In my recent experience, this is the period where we both said "you're at the top of my short list," and I jokingly said "well, we can only fuck it up from here on out."

And then there is a distinct stage in the relationship where you being training.

That's the point where I feel more insecure as a submissive, because it still isn't clear that I'll be able to become all that will be required of me. How we both handle the insecurity, the behavioral changes, "the training," ultimately determines whether we're going to be successful partners.

With every potential PYL I date, they're "under consideration", I don't need to wear a collar or give them one to show that we're considering each other; it's implicit in the dating dance. We're both a "maybe" and we know that. A collar under those circumstances is superfluous.

If others want to wear a consideration collar, it's their own business, whatever blows their hair back. As for me, I just say no.

ETA: Someone knows they are at the top of my short list because I show them by making more time to see them, setting other things aside so that I can spend time with them.

 

[eastern sun]

With every potential PYL I date, they're "under consideration", I don't need to wear a collar or give them one to show that we're considering each other; it's implicit in the dating dance. We're both a "maybe" and we know that. A collar under those circumstances is superfluous.

If others want to wear a consideration collar, it's their own business, whatever blows their hair back. As for me, I just say no.

ETA: Someone knows they are at the top of my short list because I show them by making more time to see them, setting other things aside so that I can spend time with them.

Yes, most people don't use collars to signal these changes in status. But some like the ritualization, and certainty, of knowing where they stand.

I've often thought there was a subset of us in the BDSM community who relish the concrete structures that some of these practices give to what can be murky and easily misinterpreted social interactions. Especially when our romantic idealizations and fantasies are kicked into play.

Think of the number of relationships you know of where one or the other partner is "more invested" than the other. Or has expectations of the relationship that will never be satisfied.

In some ways, this kind of concrete collar system just codifies the relationship-building process, making it concrete and tangible, and giving comfort to those of us who long for certainty in an uncertain world.

 

[CeriseNin]

Well sure, there are people who are high protocol, or like the romanticism of a collar of consideration or whatever meaning they personally assign to it. Perhaps that tangible evidence is a comfort to both the sub and the dominant. I *get* their reasons, and it's their own business. I'm just not a collar of consideration sort of girl.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I can see having different collars for day wear, night, etc. But if someone said they wanted me to wear a 'collar of consideration' I would tell them to consider getting lost. Also, it stinks to have tangible evidence that you are a "maybe".

Very nice said. I can totaly relate to this!

I was fucking "maybe" for bloody 15 years to my husband who kept considering if he should stay or go and kept leaving and coming back to me which marked me in a very not nice way and thats probably why I am saying this. It was no D/s realtionship back then, but it doesn't matter. I told my self I won't EVER again be just someones "maybe". It hurts too bad, so thats why. Been there, done that.

And eventho I know where ES coming from and I must say it must be very nice to go thro these levels of collaring with someone, I cannot ever see myself being able to do this. Guess theres still lots of bitterness and hurt in me somewhere deep inside due the past or I don't know, but I couldn't take such treating.

As Marilyn Monroe says "... a wise girl leaves before she is left." Everytime I get this feeling that someones considering "me", in a way if I am good enough for them or not, I am leaving the relationship real fast! Guess I am just too scared to get hurt again. Kinda had more than enough of that with my dear ex, so some considering collar is a big NO WAY for me. You like me or you don't. You want me or you don't. I am what you need or I am not. And thats fine! But OMG never ever tell me you're considering whether you wanna keep me or not, because if you do then we are done!

We all consider our PYL's and partners on the very begining of the relationship and thats okay with me. But this "considering collar" seems like sooo much more than that to me! Way too much really. At least for me.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Oh god. *social anxiety* Are you being facetious/sarcastic or serious and playful?

(I really don't want to be breaking any rules. I just thought it was a nice conversational thread, and so many on the main page are masturbation fodder with little actual conversation to be had.

Not that I hate masturbation fodder!)

((Man, and I call myself a PYL. >_<)

Definitely the latter.

I loved it, hence quoting for posterity.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

When I made the commitment to obey and submit to my PYL I received a ring. But that too is just a material object. My commitment itself is my "collar".

But my collar was like an appendage. It was a physically way of keeping them with me even though they were never, ever out of my thoughts. I couldn't imagine not having that piece of something - be it bracelet, ring, or necklace - that I could touch throughout the day when I miss them or find something that reminds me of them... Whoever the future "them" may be...

This x2.

Mine's "just" a necklace. But it's something he gave me, it's part of him that's with me always, that I can tangle round my fingers at a moment, and just feel close to him again. It gives me a moment to centre myself, find a bit of peace.

And that's what's important for me about it.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I think one thing that I am insistent on is flexibility. I do like the idea of different types of collars, but I don't really connect with the idea of "You have reached this land mark, time to change your jewellery, my whimpering sex minion!"

The "My whimpering sex minion!" sounds so cool, I love it!

 

[eastern sun]

Very nice said. I can totaly relate to this!

I was fucking "maybe" for bloody 15 years to my husband who kept considering if he should stay or go and kept leaving and coming back to me which marked me in a very not nice way and thats probably why I am saying this. It was no D/s realtionship back then, but it doesn't matter. I told my self I won't EVER again be just someones "maybe". It hurts too bad, so thats why. Been there, done that.

And eventho I know where ES coming from and I must say it must be very nice to go thro these levels of collaring with someone, I cannot ever see myself being able to do this. Guess theres still lots of bitterness and hurt in me somewhere deep inside due the past or I don't know, but I couldn't take such treating.

As Marilyn Monroe says "... a wise girl leaves before she is left." Everytime I get this feeling that someones considering "me", in a way if I am good enough for them or not, I am leaving the relationship real fast! Guess I am just too scared to get hurt again. Kinda had more than enough of that with my dear ex, so some considering collar is a big NO WAY for me. You like me or you don't. You want me or you don't. I am what you need or I am not. And thats fine! But OMG never ever tell me you're considering whether you wanna keep me or not, because if you do then we are done!

We all consider our PYL's and partners on the very begining of the relationship and thats okay with me. But this "considering collar" seems like sooo much more than that to me! Way too much really. At least for me.

I understand your feelings BiaTcHiNFirRe. I had a similar "maybe" relationship in my first sexual relationship that went on far too long for the good of my self-esteem.

In my opinion, if a collar of consideration hasn't turned into a training collar within a few months, or been discarded altogether, there's a pretty good indication that power games of the "not fun" and potentially damaging kind will be a major part of the relationship. I don't know many people who thrive in those relationships.

But that's also why I think that first stage of the relationship is such an important "maybe" stage for the submissive as well. It's an opportunity to get to know how the dominant relates to people before you've made a more serious (and potentially long-term) commitment. It also precedes any "training" period which can involve significant psychological and physical investment. I've seen a lot of people start to make that investment long before there's any certainty that the other is going to stick around long enough to see the outcome. Then you get all these lost "subs" whose "doms" have suddenly upped and disappeared on them. Or disappointed "doms" whose "subs" just didn't prove to be "real."

As a friend recently said to me, "a lot of people talk the talk." Only time and experience will demonstrate where "the walk" will actually take you.

 

[ownedsubgal]

for me a collar represents ownership (and need not involve a physical collar at all), and nothing else. therefore i am either owned, or i am not. i am single and free, or under someone's complete control and authority. there is no in-between. i've never understood the "stages" view of relationships of any sort. perhaps because i am a more logical/analytical sort. something is, or it is not. i cannot relate to the process of meeting someone and wondering whether or not they would make a suitable sex partner, mate, Master or anything else. i just live, and whatever is meant to be, will be, without human interference, staging and planning.

for the same reasons i do not in any way comprehend the vanilla process of "dating." you are basically reducing what is supposed to be a higher, deeply meaningful and purposeful connection with another human being to a series of job interviews. freaky.