Changing Partners

[Ishmael]

This thread is a derivative of my "mid-life crisis" thread. A fellow literotican PM'd asking if I thought that they were in mid-life crisis. I know a little of the situation and replied that I didn't think so. I was then asked to explain why. I answered.

But I got to thinking that that person's situation isn't so unique. The odds are that it's something that has or will happen to all of us.

A long term relatioship hits the wall. The breakup may be messy or civil, but it's time to move on.

In some cases one of the partners is already moving into anothers bed. Or looking to as quickly as possible. It's called rebounding. Everyone wants human warmth and if the marital/partnership bed has been cold the need can border on desperation. This period can last from 6 months to 2 years. Depends on the individual.

Every rebound relationship I've ever seen ended in a nasty breakup or divorce. Every single one. I'm sure there are success stories out there. I just haven't seen them yet.

So this PM'er asked me what the answer was. I said that you can't live with another person until you're learned to live alone.

My reasoning follows:

I think that in a long term relationship each party finds niches and roles that they play. You wash the dishes, I'll dry. I'll take out the garbage you vacumn the floor. I'm sure you get the picture. Many of these roles are so automatic that we don't think about them. If you were to sit down and make a list of the things your partner does for you, you'd probably miss over half of them. It's the way you live. The accomodations you've made. Once that partner is no longer in the picture, you can make a complete list.

So you jump to a new bed. Guess what? You expect your new partner to do all the things that the old one did. You get irritated when they don't. It's automatic. Expected of this person. And this new person is very likely carrying the same burdens and expectations.

My opinion, and observations, are that new relationships are best built from the foundation of independence. Once you learn how to do all those things for yourself, there is no expectations placed on the new partner and what ever they do for you is appreciated. The things that they do will undoubtedly be different, but none the less appreciated. You've proven to yourself that you are capable of managing your own affairs and any need for the other person is based on the desire to be together, not the fear of being alone.


Thoughts?

Ishmael

 

[Guest]

I'll work. You get me a Greencard.

 

[MaggieH]

Ish, that's a very interesting theory. I agree that when you start a relationship based on neediness, rather than desire, that's not a healthy thing and will probably not work long term. But I had never thought of the issue of day-to-day household roles causing expectations in the new relationship.

 

[intrigued]

I think you're dead on the money with most of it. Mostly, I thik you really do need to live on your own before you ever live with someone else, and even more so, after a break up, for just the reason you stated...you want to be together, not that you don't want to be alone.
Whats freaky for me is that we're such creatures of habit and need that often we recreate the very situations we ran from, or that ended, and bring those same expectations to the table the next time, when they probably didn't work to begin with.
Hopefully, a little time spent getting to know ourselves better and filling our own needs means that our future relationships will enhance us, and be based on a truly wanting to be with that person, just as they are.

Please note that I'm half asleep.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I said that you can't live with another person until you're learned to live alone.

Thoughts?

Ishmael

I totally agree with at least this much of your statement. I'm not sure how much it has to do with what the other person does for you though. Not as far as around the house stuff, anyway.

I think living alone gives you more perspective on your needs and desires. It lets you get to know yourself on an intimate level, something that we tend not to focus on when we're involved in a long term relationship with someone.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Ish some times I think you think to much. But that's cool cause you always think the right way.

 

[MissTaken]

In general terms

your theory is correct, Ish.

I can remember when I was using personal ads, having had married men tell me that when they find the "right" lady, they would leave their wives.

I also know of men and women who leave one relationship only to find themselves in another, of similar and disasterous proportions. There are always exceptions to any rule, but these situations are generally not productive or healthy.

For the sake of argument though....
there are people who are "alone" in their marriages or LTR's. They probably sleep alone, bare the responsibility of family and daily expectations alone and when they leave that relationship, they feel no more alone than when they were in it.

To that end, some are ready to go find their partner.

So, the piece of your theory that I do agree with is that one must know one's self and be confident in that before offering themself to another. I dont' believe that there can be a set time frame of aloneness or any other recipe by which this can be accomplished.

Just my two cents.....worth about 1 cent across the border, eh!

 

[Ishmael]

Well, this thread isn't going to be any damn fun if everyone is agreeing.

TH: Yeah, there are times I wish I'd come with an on/off switch. Ya know?

PCG: I meant the things that are done in a much broader sense. The shortcoming is mine in only offering those meager examples. I think what I was getting at is that in long term relationships a co-dependency developes. It may be very lopsided as MissT points out later. But it's still there.

Intr: thanks for the input and WAKE UP

Maggie: I hear you. But how can you tell? That is and has always been the problem.

MissT: See my answer to PCG. I'm sure that there are some of those, but I suspect that they are rare and that varying degrees of co-dependencies exist in any LTR. I suspect the longer the relationship, the greater the degree of co-dependency. Just a guess.

Ishmael

 

[Hazezilla]

What differance does it make how you get into a realtionship the real question is "does it work?"


Knowing how to live alone could cause more problem in the begining because your partener may do thing differently that you.... That will cause stress because the "old way" is not being used.

Now after some time the "old way " will be forgotten and it should not make a differance.

A friend of mine just got married at the age of 52 for the first time.. He has had live ins for short periods but nothing longer than a year.

Now his whole way of life is spinning.. why? the way he used to do things is out an new ways are coming in.... on both sides....

So no knowing how to llive on your own does NOT help in the long run... But knowing who you are does greatly....
And knowing how to adjust and make room is....


please excuse type-o, bad keyboard...

 

[MissTaken]

From some personal experience

Here is a guess...

I think what we are talking about is that crazy thought process that happens when the rug is pulled from beneath our feet and we find ourselves "free."

How to approach freedom is exciting, frightening and confusing.

Some of the thoughts :

The lousy relationship ended.
I want a good one.
How do I find it?
I am tired of being only with children 24/7.
How do I know that the next one isn't worse than the last one?
How do I live on my income and the pittance I get in child support?
I hate taking the trash out.
I really hate that empty spot in the bed.
Men find me attractive, why not have some fun?
Then, since men find me so fuckable, why am I still alone....months or years later.
Who the fuck am I? Is there something wrong with me?
The ex has the girlfriend and the money, when is it my turn?

Ummm these are loosely worded thoughts I have had off and on over the last two years. (In no particular order.) *Be gone demonic thoughts!*

The point being, we need to whittle away at things one thing at a time, set some priorities and never sell ourselves short.

Is that what you are trying to say, Ish?

 

[T.H. Oughts]

TH: Yeah, there are times I wish I'd come with an on/off switch. Ya know?

You can use your come on switch anytime.

 

[intrigued]

Re: From some personal experience

Here is a guess...

I think what we are talking about is that crazy thought process that happens when the rug is pulled from beneath our feet and we find ourselves "free."

How to approach freedom is exciting, frightening and confusing.

Some of the thoughts :

The lousy relationship ended.
I want a good one.
How do I find it?
I am tired of being only with children 24/7.
How do I know that the next one isn't worse than the last one?
How do I live on my income and the pittance I get in child support?
I hate taking the trash out.
I really hate that empty spot in the bed.
Men find me attractive, why not have some fun?
Then, since men find me so fuckable, why am I still alone....months or years later.
Who the fuck am I? Is there something wrong with me?
The ex has the girlfriend and the money, when is it my turn?

Ummm these are loosely worded thoughts I have had off and on over the last two years. (In no particular order.) *Be gone demonic thoughts!*

The point being, we need to whittle away at things one thing at a time, set some priorities and never sell ourselves short.

Is that what you are trying to say, Ish?

Miss T, I only have a sec because I gotta start dinner, but I just want to take a moment to give you a very warm hug.

*Hugs*

 

[Lancecastor]

The living on your own being good to yourself before you can be good to someone else school of thought is considered standard fare at this point.

And, in the better part of a decade that has passed since my marriage ended, I had some rebounding within the first year and have spent the bulk of my time since then living and being alone in terms of "relationship".

So I'd tend to agree with the proposition.

However, I'm not much of a fan of absolutes, because I think they make for anal retentive, narrow minded lives.

With that in mind, I know of several couples who met while married, but not to each other or who met and got hooked up in a hurry after a "bad" relationship.....and these people are doing about the same as the ones I know who wait....and wait....and wait....for the "right" time and/or person.

There is no one right way to do love or life.

But there is only one life in which to live and love.

Whoa...did I say that?

Cool....

 

[sufisaint]

I would go so far to say you will never be truly happy if you cannot live alone for at least five years...thats how long it takes to truly get to know yourself and accept your aloneness not as loneliness. It all comes from within..until you realize that and have the ability be happy without others than the others are always a crutch and noone will satisfy you....

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: From some personal experience

Miss T, I only have a sec because I gotta start dinner, but I just want to take a moment to give you a very warm hug.

*Hugs*

Thanks, intrigued.

I am doing fine these days.

My post was to try to portray the sort of erratic thought that goes with finding one self newly single.

It may explain why some chose to find another partner and perhaps, a bit too quickly.

I have to agree with Lance and anyone else who thinks, there is no road map for life or love.

 

[Ishmael]

However, I'm not much of a fan of absolutes, because I think they make for anal retentive, narrow minded lives.

There are only statistics and probabilities.

With that in mind, I know of several couples who met while married, but not to each other or who met and got hooked up in a hurry after a "bad" relationship.....and these people are doing about the same as the ones I know who wait....and wait....and wait....for the "right" time and/or person.

Ibid the above. But there is some merit to the "wait and wait and wait" thing I think.

My grandmother used to say that any man that hadn't married by 35 was a confirmed bachelor. Set in his ways and not likely to change. I wouldn't know about that, but it does have a ring of truth.

Ishmael

 

[Lancecastor]

1. There are only statistics and probabilities.

2.Ibid the above. But there is some merit to the "wait and wait and wait" thing I think.

3. My grandmother used to say that any man that hadn't married by 35 was a confirmed bachelor. Set in his ways and not likely to change. I wouldn't know about that, but it does have a ring of truth.

Ishmael

1. The only statistics or probabilities that matter when it comes to my decisions about my life are mine. Makes no difference what any book says, Ish....if the right woman sashays my way tomorrow...I'm done.

2. Waiting is the thing you do when you are not actively engaged in life. Wait long enough and life passes you by. Today. It's all about today. Always.

3. In your grandmother's day, "confirmed bachelor" was polite code for "gay", was it not?



Lance

 

[Ishmael]

1. The only statistics or probabilities that matter when it comes to my decisions about my life are mine. Makes no difference what any book says, Ish....if the right woman sashays my way tomorrow...I'm done.

We all make our own decisions. This is true and the heart is certainly capable of blinding the mind.

2. Waiting is the thing you do when you are not actively engaged in life. Wait long enough and life passes you by. Today. It's all about today. Always.

Depends on what you're doing while you're waiting don't you think? Did you just state an absolute?

3. In your grandmother's day, "confirmed bachelor" was polite code for "gay", was it not?

Could be, but I don't think so. I recall her using other terms.

Ishmael

 

[Lancecastor]

Depends on what you're doing while you're waiting don't you think? Did you just state an absolute?

Ishmael

Damn you and your logic, Spock!

Why can't you just be human?!
McCoy

 

[MaggieH]

Maggie: I hear you. But how can you tell? That is and has always been the problem.

For me, it's been something that I feel, a sense that I'm trying too hard, wanting it too desperately, wanting a relationship more than I want the particular person. I had one rebound relationship since my separation. I had that sense, that I was the one pushing, but I didn't listen to it, and paid the price. I'm learning to listen...I hope.

 

[Ishmael]

Damn you and your logic, Spock!

Why can't you just be human?!
McCoy

LOL. That one will becoming back to haunt you Lance. Trust me.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

For me, it's been something that I feel, a sense that I'm trying too hard, wanting it too desperately, wanting a relationship more than I want the particular person. I had one rebound relationship since my separation. I had that sense, that I was the one pushing, but I didn't listen to it, and paid the price. I'm learning to listen...I hope.

Not everyone is as self aware Maggie. Good luck.

Ishmael

 

[MaggieH]

Not everyone is as self aware Maggie. Good luck.

Ishmael

Believe me, I'm not as together as you make it sound.

This is a very new realization for me, and whether I can hold onto it the next time I'm attracted to someone, I don't know. And whether I can open up and let someone else in, or I use this as an excuse to not get involved at all, I don't know. It's all a work in progress....

 

[Ishmael]

Believe me, I'm not as together as you make it sound.

This is a very new realization for me, and whether I can hold onto it the next time I'm attracted to someone, I don't know. And whether I can open up and let someone else in, or I use this as an excuse to not get involved at all, I don't know. It's all a work in progress....

Well I think you're on your way.

I think that learning yourself, and being brutally honest about it is 90% of it.

If it's an option for you, you might consider seeking couseling, or finding a "life coach". Might help you understand yourself a little better.

Ishmael

 

[Soblue]

In my case, really the only thing that I never did before in the marraige was pay bills. And that's not very hard to manage.

He worked constantly, had a lot of outside hobbies, and was generally only home on Sundays, napping on the couch.

So really, I've been living alone for a long time. I think I can remember when garbage day is just fine.

And the kids will help out around the house, they are very happy to help if we are all working together.

When I got into a new relationship a few months after he left, it was really just for the companionship, and the sex. I don't think I had too many expectations out of him, and he was actually more helpful than I expected, I really appreciated it and told him that often.

Still, I think it was too soon for me, there were other complications, and it ended up not working out.