Category Opinons.

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

and all the AO3 talk. I bet the site doesn’t actually want the (my numeric guess) 95 percent males from here going there. Plus all the fanfic. A lot of disinterest exists, here. Plus it’s a different place. While the focus is compare and contrast it’s almost bordering on advertising an almost competitor. Let the sites coexist. So (upbeat) vice la difference! (Downbeat) And take all that damn fan fiction with ya! ;-)

Again, just because you're not interested in AO3s culture doesn't negate the fact that the websites mechanical design is something I wish academic institutions used. It's just good design and I'd like to see those good design features on other websites because they're quality of life features for readers regardless of demographic or interest.

 

[RejectReality]

I recall that Literotica rearranged my story tags after I submitted each of my stories, presumably based on an algorithm to determine which ones were the most useful.

Never noticed that before, but I've never really paid attention, either. Just checked my newest, and I'm reasonably certain they're in the sequence I submitted them. I can see it happening, though. Laurel will sometimes intervene to improve a story's readership potential, and she's more often right than not in my experience.

 

[jsmiam]

Again, just because you're not interested in AO3s culture doesn't negate the fact that the websites mechanical design is something I wish academic institutions used. It's just good design and I'd like to see those good design features on other websites because they're quality of life features for readers regardless of demographic or interest.

True enough. I’m not completely sold on every part of their design, but some aspects aren’t bad. grouping related tags seems nice

 

[ElectricBlue]

While this is true, a lot of people, particularly when on their phones (including me about 80 percent of the time) don’t click cryptic icons. And hovering to get a clue what an icon is isn’t really a thing for most phone users. We’ve inadvertently ended up on a bullshit pages or bullshit sites too many times, so we just dodge icons. (Also, think about how often people post questions about what all the icons mean too.). I’ll pivot back to tags now. Over-iconning rant finished.

So, I’ll vote that treating “hidden and obscure by default” things as the answer isn’t the answer.

Maybe lit was right to phase tags in gradually. Back on day one of tags, practically all the old stories didn’t have any. It would have been confusing, even unfair to the older stories back then to overemphasize tags

That’s no longer the case. I would agree, show tags by default now.

The guy is moaning that tags can't be seen at the top of a story when they are. And now you're moaning that you don't like icons and want the tags displayed by default?

That would clutter up everybody else's page, provide information that other users might not want to see, because we're quite capable of reading stories without knowing what's in it, and know where the reverse key is, to back out.

Because that's what most posts about tags are ultimately about - people wanting authors to know all their squicks and to give them content warnings, whereas authors see tags as the list of their filth and depravity, saying, here's the stuff in my story, come and get it.

These are opposing principles, and anyway, we only get ten. I'll use them to promote my story, not to provide content warnings, which is what a lot of people seem to want.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Laurel will sometimes intervene to improve a story's readership potential, and she's more often right than not in my experience.

Agree. She's added tags to my stories on occasion, where I'd not used all ten, and they were all a good idea.

 

[HopelessDreams]

That would clutter up everybody else's page, provide information that other users might not want to see, because we're quite capable of reading stories without knowing what's in it, and know where the reverse key is, to back out.

I agree. I suspect that many readers prefer not to see the tags (beyond any that they searched for specifically), because they'd rather be surprised and are open-minded about reading pretty much any content that's allowed here. Hiding the tags within a clickable icon gives readers the option to view them or not.

 

[jsmiam]

The guy is moaning that tags can't be seen at the top of a story when they are.

They are not visible. An icon to make them visible is present. Not the tags. Try to be more clear in your writing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

They are not visible. An icon to make them visible is present. Not the tags. Try to be more clear in your writing.

Okay, I stand corrected. The fundamental point remains, however, that tags are available at the top of a story, provided you have the ability to click on an icon, which is how most software is navigated (these last few decades).

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Try the second little icon under the story title on the first page, top left. Gosh, tags!

I didn't know that was there- still gotta open the story to see the tags... but at least one doesn't need to scroll to find them.

Also I don't care for trigger warnings, I don't like seeing them when I open a story to read, on any of these writing sites, or web comics.

Two observations are.

- can the tolks on the inside track with Laurel let her know to come speak for herself as herself now and then? It’s almost offensive knowing she speaks to some and not at all to others. It’s her site that she rules with her iron fist. She can post.

- and all the AO3 talk. I bet the site doesn’t actually want the (my numeric guess) 95 percent males from here going there. Plus all the fanfic. A lot of disinterest exists, here. Plus it’s a different place. While the focus is compare and contrast it’s almost bordering on advertising an almost competitor. Let the sites coexist. So (upbeat) vice la difference! (Downbeat) And take all that damn fan fiction with ya! ;-)

- Back to Laurel, speaking through a burning bush. Blend that with the male/female ratio, it’s a burning schlong, not a burning bush. Ouch.

Even if the "95%" did go there, it's not like they won't still be here, nobody signed a non-compete agreement here, when signing up, that bans you from reading/writing on other sites. I don't know what "plus all the fanfic" is supposed to mean.

 

[alohadave]

I agree. I suspect that many readers prefer not to see the tags (beyond any that they searched for specifically), because they'd rather be surprised and are open-minded about reading pretty much any content that's allowed here. Hiding the tags within a clickable icon gives readers the option to view them or not.

That is contrary to my experience. Readers want to know what they are getting into and will complain when there is content that is not tagged.

 

[RejectReality]

That is contrary to my experience. Readers want to know what they are getting into and will complain when there is content that is not tagged.

But that's as often as not just an excuse after the fact. When you get into a category like LW, they're using tags/titles/descriptions/warning notes as neon signposts to find the things they know they're going to hate. In other categories, they simply ignore blatant warnings regardless of how clearly they're delivered, and still complain about being "surprised".

It's better in some categories than others. The readership of SFi&F/NonHuman seem to heed warnings well. The readers in grab-bag categories like EC, Novels, and Fetish seem to be better at it as well. ( Didn't work 100% for me with the story in the OP which landed in fetish, but still... )

I agree that I believe readers in general would be happier if the tags were more prominent at the point of initial selection. ( hubs, new list ) My experience suggests those who would prefer a heads-up outnumber those who want to avoid 100% of spoilers.

 

[jsmiam]

...Even if the "95%" did go there, it's not like they won't still be here, nobody signed a non-compete agreement here, when signing up, that bans you from reading/writing on other sites. I don't know what "plus all the fanfic" is supposed to mean.

My initial reply, since then also clarified with a reply from @whoopsie, was that the thread *seemed* to veer into advertising an alt site, rather than a technology compare and contrast.

I’ll accept the correction that the intent and thread didn’t go there, exactly. That was my meaning.

That other site (to me) seemed to have an identity of its own, fan fiction being its main identity. I could be wrong. That’s what that comment meant.

Switching gears a bit and coming full circle: *IF* tags were listed by default, they *COULD* be plainer text hyperlinks, minus the decorative box, and they could allow line breaks between words within the same tag, thereby reducing vertical space used. I’m definitely all for compactness too. (I’ve been wishing too much lately though. Must be these damn red slippers with the clicky heels )

 

[RejectReality]

My initial reply, since then also clarified with a reply from @whoopsie, was that the thread *seemed* to veer into advertising an alt site, rather than a technology compare and contrast.

I’ll accept the correction that the intent and thread didn’t go there, exactly. That was my meaning.

That other site (to me) seemed to have an identity of its own, fan fiction being its main identity. I could be wrong. That’s what that comment meant.

Switching gears a bit and coming full circle: *IF* tags were listed by default, they *COULD* be plainer text hyperlinks, minus the decorative box, and they could allow line breaks between words within the same tag, thereby reducing vertical space used. I’m definitely all for compactness too. (I’ve been wishing too much lately though. Must be these damn red slippers with the clicky heels )

I still think adding at least a limited list of tags to the story card where people are making most of their decisions ( hubs, new story list, search results ) will make a lot more difference than displaying the tags automatically on the story page.

Perhaps there could even be a radio button for tags that causes the system to not display the tags for that story in such places, should the author choose. That allows authors who don't want their tags displayed the option, and readers can interpret it how they choose. If they're worried about content they won't like, they can skip those that don't display tags.