Category hopping and EC

[Chase_Storm]

I like writing series and have read a lot of threads on the boards about the pros and cons of category hopping. I think it's overall a tough call when writing a series in which things end in a place very different from where they began. Perhaps Group Sex will be where you land, but if the first few installments don't go there at all, it seems to me like a bad idea to select that category at the start, and vice versa, etc.

Complicating matters is that it takes a very, very, very long time for a series to go from "pending moderation" to published. If I find a good story and get into a series, I'm scrolling to the "Read More of This Series" section and clicking the next chapter, and not paying any attention to whether the category has changed. The only time I may notice a change is if I go to an author's page for additional chapters, something I never did until I started writing. My assumption had been if there was no "Read More" option, there were no other chapters yet. Sadly, I know now that is rarely the case, as it takes months for the series setup to be published.

It also seems like the Erotic Couplings category is a very difficult place to get eyes on your story, and with good reason. The volume of stories doesn't give your submission a lot of time on the main page. If you're on the old mobile design (and my guess is most readers are), not even all of the stories posted YESTERDAY (10/16) are on the new stories screen TODAY.

Looking for fresh thoughts are on these topics. Is category hopping a bad idea? Unfair to readers? Or a necessary part of an evolving story?

And is EC just a crowded place best to stay away from if possible?

 

[SamanthaBehgs]

It might be a bad idea, but I have warned my readers up front on a series where I know the categories are going to change. I let them know what will hold the series together, but also (without spoilers) that we are going to move from place to place as the story develops. Is this, perhaps, a way to split the difference (I did this in a header before the story began and also in my bio)

 

[Chase_Storm]

It might be a bad idea, but I have warned my readers up front on a series where I know the categories are going to change. I let them know what will hold the series together, but also (without spoilers) that we are going to move from place to place as the story develops. Is this, perhaps, a way to split the difference (I did this in a header before the story began and also in my bio)

A good thought. I appreciate the idea.

 

[iwatchus]

Looking for fresh thoughts are on these topics. Is category hopping a bad idea? Unfair to readers? Or a necessary part of an evolving story?

I did it in my original series (E&V, EC and GS). Maybe I would have gotten better views had I stayed in one category. I don't know. The ratings were good and I probably got exposure to more total possible readers than If I had stuck to one category. And not all of it made sense in E&V, which is where I started, having no idea where it was going.

And is EC just a crowded place best to stay away from if possible?

EC is not particularly crowded. It just does not attract the viewership of many other categories. I suspect it's because it's mostly pretty vanilla stuff, and seemingly most readers want something that caters to their particular kink. My EC stories in my original series got about 1/2 the views that nearby GS did, with E&V somewhere in between. The voting habits are different though, and all three tended to get similar total votes (with views and votes tailing off some as the series progressed across stories.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I like writing series and have read a lot of threads on the boards about the pros and cons of category hopping. I think it's overall a tough call when writing a series in which things end in a place very different from where they began. Perhaps Group Sex will be where you land, but if the first few installments don't go there at all, it seems to me like a bad idea to select that category at the start, and vice versa, etc.

Group is a very non-responsive category in my experience. The vote per view ratio is much lower than other categories, comments just about none. There's very little feedback from readers. It's a tumbleweeds category for me and I won't post there again.

Complicating matters is that it takes a very, very, very long time for a series to go from "pending moderation" to published. If I find a good story and get into a series, I'm scrolling to the "Read More of This Series" section and clicking the next chapter, and not paying any attention to whether the category has changed.

This depends on the way authors title their stories. If they use the same title, with Ch.01, Ch.02 etc, the site automatically joins the chapters together, and you can easily see the next chapter. It's only when authors cluster different story titles together in a Series that there's a wait. It gets there in the end but you have to be patient.

The only time I may notice a change is if I go to an author's page for additional chapters, something I never did until I started writing. My assumption had been if there was no "Read More" option, there were no other chapters yet. Sadly, I know now that is rarely the case, as it takes months for the series setup to be published.

If the Series is created after the stories are first published, yes, there's a wait. If authors flag to the site that the latest submission is part of a Series, it's immediate.

It also seems like the Erotic Couplings category is a very difficult place to get eyes on your story, and with good reason. The volume of stories doesn't give your submission a lot of time on the main page. If you're on the old mobile design (and my guess is most readers are), not even all of the stories posted YESTERDAY (10/16) are on the new stories screen TODAY.

That's true, it's a high volume category, but not the highest on the site(that's Incest, and Loving Wives). It's okay, though, so far as things go. If your story has obvious erotic content in other categories, sure, go to those categories, but there's no reason to avoid EC, not really.

Looking for fresh thoughts are on these topics. Is category hopping a bad idea? Unfair to readers? Or a necessary part of an evolving story?

Generally speaking, I think most fierce category advocates are single category readers, and won't follow the story across multiple categories anyway. It's better, I reckon, to avoid smorgasbord stories in the first place, and write the different kinks you want your characters to experience into standalone stories, and zoom in on that category for that story.

And is EC just a crowded place best to stay away from if possible?

I publish quite a lot in EC. It's no better, no worse, if you ask me, than other categories. But then, I'm not a single category writer, either.

 

[Chase_Storm]

Group is a very non-responsive category in my experience. The vote per view ratio is much lower than other categories, comments just about none. There's very little feedback from readers. It's a tumbleweeds category for me and I won't post there again.

This depends on the way authors title their stories. If they use the same title, with Ch.01, Ch.02 etc, the site automatically joins the chapters together, and you can easily see the next chapter. It's only when authors cluster different story titles together in a Series that there's a wait. It gets there in the end but you have to be patient.

If the Series is created after the stories are first published, yes, there's a wait. If authors flag to the site that the latest submission is part of a Series, it's immediate.

That's true, it's a high volume category, but not the highest on the site(that's Incest, and Loving Wives). It's okay, though, so far as things go. If your story has obvious erotic content in other categories, sure, go to those categories, but there's no reason to avoid EC, not really.

Generally speaking, I think most fierce category advocates are single category readers, and won't follow the story across multiple categories anyway. It's better, I reckon, to avoid smorgasbord stories in the first place, and write the different kinks you want your characters to experience into standalone stories, and zoom in on that category for that story.

I publish quite a lot in EC. It's no better, no worse, if you ask me, than other categories. But then, I'm not a single category writer, either.

Appreciate this. You mentioned a lot of the same things I've read about delays in publishing a series, and I have personally not found this to be the case for me. I have the same naming convention for my chapters, and they were not grouped together automatically. I tried publishing the series, and then including a note that the chapters were part of said series, and still, nothing. Perhaps it's just a reflection of the overwhelming volume of material admins are dealing with.

Regardless, thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Chase_Storm]

I did it in my original series (E&V, EC and GS). Maybe I would have gotten better views had I stayed in one category. I don't know. The ratings were good and I probably got exposure to more total possible readers than If I had stuck to one category. And not all of it made sense in E&V, which is where I started, having no idea where it was going.


EC is not particularly crowded. It just does not attract the viewership of many other categories. I suspect it's because it's mostly pretty vanilla stuff, and seemingly most readers want something that caters to their particular kink. My EC stories in my original series got about 1/2 the views that nearby GS did, with E&V somewhere in between. The voting habits are different though, and all three tended to get similar total votes (with views and votes tailing off some as the series progressed across stories.

I do feel like the readership is tied to the volume, though. In GS or T&M, for example, stories can stay up for days, even weeks, on the new stories page, where in EC it's up and gone within 24-48 hours.

I definitely agree with the assessment of it seeming pretty vanilla, and readers seeking specific things to scratch a personal itch. I wish there were some additional 1-on-1 categories, or even sub-categories under EC, to allow people to better explore the stories. Yes, I realize that's where the tags come in, though I do wonder how an average user makes use of those things.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Appreciate this. You mentioned a lot of the same things I've read about delays in publishing a series, and I have personally not found this to be the case for me. I have the same naming convention for my chapters, and they were not grouped together automatically. I tried publishing the series, and then including a note that the chapters were part of said series, and still, nothing. Perhaps it's just a reflection of the overwhelming volume of material admins are dealing with.

Regardless, thank you for your thoughts.

That's weird. One of your chaptered stories is correctly joined up, but the Cabin series isn't. The algorithm should have managed that one automatically, without you doing anything with it.

Have you gone into the Manual Series function and tried to fix it there?

 

[Britva415]

EC is not particularly crowded

Compared to what? It has more stories than any other category. At least half of a given day's new EC stories are invisible on the front page of the category because they don't fit in the space allotted.

 

[iwatchus]

Compared to what? It has more stories than any other category. At least half of a given day's new EC stories are invisible on the front page of the category because they don't fit in the space allotted.

My mistake I guess. My apologies. I thought I had looked at that previously.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Looking for fresh thoughts are on these topics. Is category hopping a bad idea? Unfair to readers? Or a necessary part of an evolving story?

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. In fact I think it's a great way for a longer story to reach multiple audiences. Yes, there is a downside that many readers are reading for their one or two fave kinks, and if you stray from that you could lose them but you can never please everybody so I wouldn't bother trying.

My current work in progress is mapped out at seven chapters to be posted in seven different categories.

And is EC just a crowded place best to stay away from if possible?

100%.

I definitely agree with the assessment of it seeming pretty vanilla, and readers seeking specific things to scratch a personal itch. I wish there were some additional 1-on-1 categories, or even sub-categories under EC, to allow people to better explore the stories. Yes, I realize that's where the tags come in, though I do wonder how an average user makes use of those things.

If you do not have a large following, your biggest attention getter by far is the new lists. If you post to EC, your story will get the least amount of attention on the new lists of any category. Even invisible categories like non-E and L&T will get more eyeballs spending weeks on the new list.

Remember, the categories are mostly divided by kink. EC is really just miscellaneous vanilla. Vanilla is the absence of kink, so pretty much no one (heck, possibly literally no one) is actively searching it. Additionally, it has submission volume rivaling the most popular categories, yet its readership is nowhere near those most popular categories, so your eyeball ratio is absolutely appalling.

I'm not very kinky, so my first few stories posted here were miscellaneous vanilla. I posted to EC. All of those stories do horrible. My chain story chapter gets more action than any of my EC offerings. My 750 word L&T story gets way more action than any of my EC stories. EC sucks shit.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

EC is not particularly crowded. It just does not attract the viewership of many other categories. I suspect it's because it's mostly pretty vanilla stuff, and seemingly most readers want something that caters to their particular kink. My EC stories in my original series got about 1/2 the views that nearby GS did, with E&V somewhere in between. The voting habits are different though, and all three tended to get similar total votes (with views and votes tailing off some as the series progressed across stories.

My HardcoreJaz series is a perfect experiment. There are four installments. They are all standalone entries with the same plot and same main character.

#1 ~ EC ~ Mar 2020 ~ 6049 hits / 64 votes / 9 faves / 7 comments
#2 ~ EC ~ Jan 2023 ~ 2866 hits / 16 votes / 1 fave / 1 comment
#3 ~ EC ~ Aug 2023 ~ 1682 hits / 15 votes / 1 fave / 1 comment
#4 ~ E/V ~ Oct 2023 ~ 4491 hits / 19 votes / 6 faves / 2 comments

#1 is the winner but only because it is THREE YEARS older than the rest. Clearly the E/V story wins here by a smash. We could not conduct a better controlled experiment than this: the exact same character is essentially the same plot, the same length (all stories between 4800ish and 6000ish words. The only difference is the category. The one that's not in EC crushes!

My 750 word L&T

Feb 2024 ~ 3053 hits / 33 votes / 3 faves / 7 comments

This BLOWS AWAY #2 and #3 above (despite being newer), and people are supposed to hate 750 worders.

My chain story chapter

Dec 2024 ~ 1768 hits / 32 votes

I won't count the faves and comments because they were just the other writers in the chain, but still, this story is only a year old, it's my worst written story, and the category is absolutely invisible, yet it already keeps up with #2 and #3 above quite easily.

EC fucking sucks.

 

[iwatchus]

My HardcoreJaz series is a perfect experiment. There are four installments. They are all standalone entries with the same plot and same main character.

As I said above, I clearly missed the issue here with the number of contributions.

My experience, which is consistent with 8letters more extensive study, is that EC gets fewer views than GS or E&V, more than SF&F.

Here is the post with more detailed analysis.

EC is roughly a middle of the road in terms of views. (14th and 16th in the two years that 8letters looked at)

It gets more comments and votes per view than GS, so ends up with comparable total reader engagements beyond views. It gets fewer engagements than E&V.

EC gets notably less views and engagement than the big handful of categories, but it is not as far down that path as say SF&F.

You either write stories that fit a handful of categories like LW and T/I or you live with the sleepier categories, ranging from GS down to SF&F, with EC somewhere in the middle of that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

EC gets fewer views than GS or E&V, more than SF&F.

My SF&F story.

Oct 2023 ~ 8789 hits ~ 50 votes / 4 faves / 3 comments

Same month as #4 above (my E/V story that blows away my EC entries) yet my SF&F story blows away that in hits and votes. Clearly gets way more eyeballs and votes. It's not close.

 

[iwatchus]

You must write exceptionally better in the SG&F category than you do elsewhere or your stories just attract readers better there than other writers do. That is not the answer I have heard from anyone else and is fundamentally at odds with the overall stats. Like it means everyone else is really getting awful views.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You must write exceptionally better in the SG&F category than you do elsewhere or your stories just attract readers better there than other writers do. That is not the answer I have heard from anyone else and is fundamentally at odds with the overall stats. Like it means everyone else is really getting awful views.

No one ever clicks on a story because it is written exceptionally well. No one knows how well it is written unless they click on it first, unless you have a following, and I absolutely do not have a following.

But I admit I now remember something that I forgot. It was a Hallowe'en contest entry. That would have upped the views for sure. My bad there.

I'd still rather post in SF than EC. At least the SF crowd will find it. The EC crowd ... well there is no EC crowd. Barely anyone ever checks the EC board specifically. The action comes from the general new list and tags (which every other category also gets in addiction to its crowd).

 

[DeMont]

I like writing series and have read a lot of threads on the boards about the pros and cons of category hopping. I think it's overall a tough call when writing a series in which things end in a place very different from where they began. Perhaps Group Sex will be where you land, but if the first few installments don't go there at all, it seems to me like a bad idea to select that category at the start, and vice versa, etc.

Complicating matters is that it takes a very, very, very long time for a series to go from "pending moderation" to published. If I find a good story and get into a series, I'm scrolling to the "Read More of This Series" section and clicking the next chapter, and not paying any attention to whether the category has changed. The only time I may notice a change is if I go to an author's page for additional chapters, something I never did until I started writing. My assumption had been if there was no "Read More" option, there were no other chapters yet. Sadly, I know now that is rarely the case, as it takes months for the series setup to be published.

It also seems like the Erotic Couplings category is a very difficult place to get eyes on your story, and with good reason. The volume of stories doesn't give your submission a lot of time on the main page. If you're on the old mobile design (and my guess is most readers are), not even all of the stories posted YESTERDAY (10/16) are on the new stories screen TODAY.

Looking for fresh thoughts are on these topics. Is category hopping a bad idea? Unfair to readers? Or a necessary part of an evolving story?

And is EC just a crowded place best to stay away from if possible?

@Chase_Storm
Good morning my dear colleague. I am of the opinion that "categories" are simply a way for niche readers (fans of particular kinks and/or topics) to easily find the stories that most suit their preferred tastes. The secret, I think, lies in the use of "Tags" when you upload a story submission for publication.

Similarly, I am also convinced that the more populated (by readers) the category you choose for your submission the faster it will be picked up and published.

For example;
I recently submitted, and had published, 2 pieces. One was an "Erotic Horror" which was aimed squarely at the '2025 Halloween Contest' but tagged as "Erotic Horror". It took almost a week for it to show up (i.e. get published)
Most recently I submitted a longer piece that involved multiple categories (all tagged at submission) but as one of the tags I used "Erotic Couplings" and lo and behold it turned up right there within a couple of days.

The difference, I believe, was in the fact that I went from a lightly occupied reader base, in EH to a much larger reader base in EC.
It was something of an experiment I tried and the results seem to have, at least somewhat, confirmed my thoughts on how best to get stories published. Aim at least one of your story tags at the larger audience category that it fits, however loosely.

Deepest respects,
D.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The difference, I believe, was in the fact that I went from a lightly occupied reader base, in EH to a much larger reader base in EC.

EC does not have a larger reader base. It does have a larger writer base (because it's a catch-all for all of the categories and sub-categories that should exist but don't).

Large reader base is good for exposure - more eyeballs. Large writer base is bad for exposure - more competition for eyeballs. EC has the worst ratio of low eyeballs to high competition of all categories.

 

[RejectReality]

If it's primarily a group sex story and you're worried about the group sex not starting until a few chapters in, ( or whatever kink ) don't post it as chapters, or make the chapters longer to get there in the first installment. Anyone who's going to read a long story will be fine with the setup, so long as you get to their kink and it dominates the remainder of the tale.

Look for an overarching theme that can contain it to a category. ( age-difference in mature, Sci-Fi&Fantasy, and the like ) Some mistakenly "disqualify" a story from a category because it contains elements of another category. If it's an age-difference tale, the readership of Mature isn't going to care if you toss a group sex or anal scene in there. So long as you maintain the age-difference kink, the rest is spice. So long as it's primarily back-door action, Anal readers won't care if there's a threesome or foursome. Sci-Fi&Fantasy readers are there for the world-building. You can throw all sorts of naughty stuff at them as long as you nail that.

If there's no such theme, and no group sex, then EC is probably your best bet. Really, even if there's a group sex scene or two, you could go with EC despite the description of the category. The readership is entirely transient, so there's nobody to punish you for breaking the 1on1 rule.

If the story is long ( 10 Lit pages or more, whether chaptered or not ) and kink-hops a lot without that overarching theme, you're probably better going with Novels and Novellas because anybody reading there is at least looking for long stories. That can help override the range of kinks, especially if they're squicky kinks. Tag ( and possibly warn in an up-front author's note ) about any particularly squicky material such as M/M, Incest, Incest Roleplay, Cuckold, Etc. The readership is small, but from what I see, they're loyal and interactive if you capture them.

Category hopping is a bad idea on Lit. The readerships are too tribal. Unless they're absolutely enthralled by the story or follow you as an author, they're simply not going to leave their comfort zone when you move on to the next category. That's particularly true if you're never going to swing back around to their kink from the chapter they first discovered.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

My perspectives are influenced by mainstream publishing rather than what can (not necessarily should) be done on Literotica.

From what I have witnessed with most posts on category hopping, the writer is facing the challenge only because they haven't finished the story yet and are wavering on the direction parts of it will go. That challenge is easily met by finishing the story before posting any of its pieces.

I have several long stories here with chapters containing various scenes that, if separated out, would fit into multiple categories. That isn't any different than mainstream publishing. However, you don't see printed books being ripped into sections in a bookstore, with one chapter going into "mysteries", another chapter going into "adventures", and other chapters going into "romance". You won't see that on Amazon, Smashwords, or other sites where stories are monetized. If the writer can't figure out what their story is about as a whole, why should the readers bother even trying?

I get "writing by the seat of your pants", since I frequently do it myself. I also get the desire for instant gratification and feedback on what you are writing. All I can recommend is that you focus on patience as much as your writing.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I feel that SF&F is a somewhat underappreciated category, due to the size of the readership, mostly. But adjusted for the size, it's very interactive and positive, with a very high vote/views ratio.

As RR said, it also depends on the type of story you're telling. Sprawling stories where you develop the world and characters are what the readers are mostly after. But even if you write shorter stories with just a sprinkle of fantasy, readers won't punish them by downvoting them, although those stories will generally garner less feedback.