Carry over from another topic: Bi-Women: can you or can't you submit to another woman

[esclave_PP]

Sunfox brought up (and catalina for that matter) the question of being angry if having to submit to another woman.

Quote from sunfox: I'm curious a bit as to whether other bi women feel the same way. I'm not bisexual myself, but I would definitely say I feel something of an ambiguous anger at the idea of being asked/told to submit to another woman.
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Sunfox
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"Good-bye," said the fox. "Here is my secret. It's quite simple: One sees
clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes." - The Little Prince
EndQuote

So if you're a bi-fem or even if you're not, what are your thoughts?

 

[lark sparrow]

I *can* be bisexual, but I am definitely not bi-amorous. And I am somewhat the opposite. No particular interest in submitting to men, no particular interest in submissive women, sexually speaking. I have topped men before in play, but I don’t find it compelling enough to develop a relationship, play or otherwise, on that merit. Nothing compares to submitting to a Dominant Woman for me.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I'm really new to this, so take my comments with a grain of salt

I think I'm having an easier time playing with a man right now. Eventually I'd like to play with another woman...but I need to work up to that.

 

[sunfox]

I'm really new to this, so take my comments with a grain of salt

I think I'm having an easier time playing with a man right now. Eventually I'd like to play with another woman...but I need to work up to that.

If I can ask.. why do you think it's easier for you to play with a man than a woman?

I've been curious about that for myself, why I feel that way.. I can find a woman attractive, but still prefer a man, even if I find him a little less attractive than the woman, and I'm not sure why.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

My personal preference

I am *usually* submissive with strong women and *dominant* with men. I prefer women as a rule but that may change. I know the *why* and *how* of my preferences and have even discussed them on the *Switching: Revisited* thread. For me there is usually no worry about submitting to a woman...the difficulty would be finding myself wanting to submit to a MALE.

(forgive my rambling...I am sleepy)

pet

 

[bunny bondage]

for me, i can only submit to men. i like to play around with girls, but i just can't get into them being dominant with me. perhaps it's because my mother was abusive, or maybe i just see men as a dominant image of strength.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think for me it is mostly emotionaly related. Throughout my life I guess I have found despite many men being less than honest, less than perfect, they have lacked for the most part the degree of sheer calculated dishonesty, using, and competitveness many females I have had contact with have. Most males if they use you are at least fairly open or transparent about it...I have not found the same with females on the whole though there have been a couple of good ones. It has led to a lack of trust with females, an expectation in part to expect the worst when I least expect it. That I think forms some of my distaste in placing myself in a submissive position with another female...I do not feel I can trust them in that sense, nor do I feel I can authentically give them my submission.

Catalina

 

[sigsauerprinces]

i couldnt be dominated by a woman, period.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

I think for me it is mostly emotionaly related. Throughout my life I guess I have found despite many men being less than honest, less than perfect, they have lacked for the most part the degree of sheer calculated dishonesty, using, and competitveness many females I have had contact with have. Most males if they use you are at least fairly open or transparent about it...I have not found the same with females on the whole though there have been a couple of good ones. It has led to a lack of trust with females, an expectation in part to expect the worst when I least expect it. That I think forms some of my distaste in placing myself in a submissive position with another female...I do not feel I can trust them in that sense, nor do I feel I can authentically give them my submission.

Catalina

Catalina pretty much picked this out of my head. We are truly twins in many things. It's a troubling conundrum because I truly adore women, have had long-term relationships with women, and love exploring that side of myself.

But there's that trust issue. Bleh.

To your question....

I have no interest whatsoever in submitting to another woman. I don't, as a rule, have much trust in women, and doubt very seriously that I could ever submit to one on any kind of long term basis, where pushing limits, etc was an issue.

However, I am interested in bottoming to a woman, within predefined boundaries and preset limits, as a playpartner, with my Dominant there. A co-topping situation would be cool. Having a playpartner who was a switch would be cool. I'd be interested in exploring my bisexuality and how it works within the framework of BDSM, because frankly, I haven't a clue right now. All I know, is that I have not one iota of interest in picking up a whip. None. I want and need to be on the bottom.

~anelize

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina pretty much picked this out of my head. We are truly twins in many things.

But there's that trust issue. Bleh.

~anelize

LOL, nice to know you recognised and understood you were one of the good ones I referred to. You know, that trip to the USA to meet our fellow Lit posters was one of the best snap decisions we ever made. It has enriched our lives in ways that count. Thanks twin. http://www.logtenberg.info/feeen/toverfee-2.gif

Catalina

 

[Desdemona]

A woman tried to top me once. It didn't work because I just wasn't interested. I refused to submit. There is no attraction for me in submitting to another woman. I like them as play partners, though.

 

[sunfox]

Thanks all for the responses. Catalina and Anelize in particular hit on a major nailhead for me.. the trust issue I think is why I've always been unable to see women often times even as friends.

I have to think that being capable of trusting someone is one of the most important issues in any relationship, including a BDSM one, and I agree, that would pretty much be my issue with women in a nutshell.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Hecate]

Being Dominant as my main streak I have found out two things about me:

I can not submit - but I do "bottom" (I am of the conviction that I want to know the feeling of all my toys first hand and I am a "sensation fetishist")

I do bottom to men only (two men only ever so far - so maybe that is not really totally representative as they are very special men *lol*)

I will not (as of all my soul searching knowledge up to today) bottom to a woman (submitting is completely a NO for me for any gender but I can not picture myself even bottoming for a woman).

I do cherish my darling pet Merelan though, a lot!

So to answer the question:
I can't!

Hecate

 

[Quint]

I can easily picture myself bottoming to a nice sadistic woman. But I can also picture a rather lovely relationship with the right sort of woman. It would be very difficult and would probably require a man's presence at some point--this would work especially well if I were predominately the male's partner whom he regularly shared with the female.

Exclusively and long term, no, don't think I could be a woman's submissive. For a while, yes, certainly I could. It would be just as easy as finding the right sort of dominant male, really--the desired qualities are synonymous.

 

[sunfox]

Hecate- Thank you for the perspective from the other viewpoint, of a non-submissive. Very well put.

Quint- I think I can agree with you on the sadistic woman.. I could probably handle that, but not for a long term thing, and only if there was a man involved. It'd be a level of humiliation that would be pretty serious for me, but if I ever got that seriously into BDSM in my relationship, I'd probably get to a point where I'd be ready for that. Thank you for your point of view.

 

[lark sparrow]

It begs an interesting question for those with a preference who can sway - which comes first? Gender or D/s? Yes, it's a bit chicken and egg, but there can be a distinction and it seems to be the "norm" one way or another for those who have answered.

 

[s'lara]

<snip>I can easily picture myself bottoming to a nice sadistic woman. <snip>

This made me laugh Quint because it was an interesting contradiction.

Male or Female, sadism is never pleasant. That's what makes it desirable.

lara

 

[Netzach]

My submission jones is at an all time low. I'll bottom to M and to G because I know them that well, but it stops whenever I say it does and it goes however I say it goes, so really it's just some good old fashioned passive sensuality, and I'm still in charge.

"Submitting to a man" makes me queasy, angry, anxious and kind of bored all at once. I can't imagine preferring it. Maybe a CD harnessing some hard core femininity might make me reconsider, that's really the only thing I find hot.

Submitting to a woman makes me a little wistful, a bit skeptical, but still has a glimmer of possibiliy, could be hot also in some imaginings.

Men were simply meant to go under my feet, it's simple.

 

[FungiUg]

Since my lover and I play with bi-sexual submissives, we've discovered several women who can (and do) submit to women as well as men, and one who was comfortable submitting to me, but not my lover.

Guess it just varies.

 

[angela146]

I *can* be bisexual, but I am definitely not bi-amorous. ...

Thank you! I now have a way of describing myself: bisexual but not bi-amorous... Sorry for the OT moment...

 

[angela146]

It begs an interesting question for those with a preference who can sway - which comes first? Gender or D/s? Yes, it's a bit chicken and egg, but there can be a distinction and it seems to be the "norm" one way or another for those who have answered.

Pretty strong preference for me: I like sex with women, I don't fall in love with women (or at least haven't yet) and if a woman ever tries to dominate me, confine me or hurt me, she'll learn the meaning of the word "wrath".

Actually, if she asks nicely, I'll only glare at her with fire in my eyes.

 

[lark sparrow]

Yeah, I don't really recognize men as my sexual Dominants. I'm not sure if it's even related, if somewhat opposite, to what others feel.

my feeling is essentially that I have the power in a heterosexual man's desire and need for women, in consensual relationships, because I don't share that in specifically needing or desiring a man. Sometimes I think it’s cute and can be playful in return, and other times I find the need and heterosexual perception directed at me makes me feel resentful. It's not an equal playing field from the start, and in my experience it doesn't get any more equal or create power in his favor with his sexual or romantic attraction to me personally, as a woman. I simply and neatly write that up to wiring personally - there isn't much give in the hard wiring. But who knows.

The times I have topped men I do feel especially connected to them, and it is most definitely not about hate, but it's about power to a greater extent, and even with non-romantic affection, it’s within the clear understanding that their need and "weakness" for this is stronger than mine and the fun was short-lived for me. When the power is in my hands sexually it bores, frustrates and feels limiting to me pretty quickly - man or woman. But I suppose some form of power exchange is often better than vanilla.

I assume there are heterosexual Dominant men who would have the capacity to dominate me if I were open to it, but the personal desire to submit on a deeper level is utterly lacking. With women, I feel I am on a level playing field in those influences of gender, because of my own desire and need, and if I feel their Dominance it's welcomed and desired, and under their direction I would more than likely play with men (and women) in ways I wouldn't on my own.

It’s like a scale of desire, nature and availability – 1 being most desired, 2 - 3 staying active, developing and pragmatic, 4 - 7 usually being temporary, or experimental chance and somewhat mutable within those numbers, 8 - 9 rare if at all, and 10 being nearly impossible as long as there are any sort of women on the planet.

1. submitting to a Dominant woman
2. bottoming with lesbian or bi-amorous female Tops or Switches
3. playing with myself - ha!
4. topping men short-term, may be sexual with limits
5. bottoming to a male short-term, non-sexual
6. lesbian sex, of the fairly vanilla variety
7. topping women, short-term
8. playing with bi-curious or bi-sexual, but not bi-amorous women sexually, vanilla context
9. playing with men sexually, vanilla context
10. submitting to a Dominant hetero man

 

[ScarredSoul82]

I've basically only submitted to women...I'm a bisexual switch, and while I have played a submissive role with men...I usually like to dominate. However if the right Dom came along I can't say that I'd be against being topped by a male.

 

[Natalie Nessus]

It is about love and trust

But it is always about the love

Can you submit to someone you love?
But of course

 

[PumaSue]

Could I?


As a bi woman my answer to your question
is: Yes. I could submit to another woman.