Butches

[tribalwomon]

I been wondering..as I get older..my attractions toward certain kinds of ID (lesbians) has changed..I used to date women in the life... so called lesbians...who were really bisexual...I was really not that smart... when they introduced their boyfriends... as cousins.. roommates...to learn the truth later... I got burned...I ran back into the closet...the pain was too much... They were femmes....but aggressive.... It took me years to heal....to trust women again... I found that my taste changed.... when I came out again...Butches...I just melt....Love them....ALL BUTCHES....soft..hard.. stud...aggressives.... stone...TG... bois...tomboys...butch daddies...leather daddies...But I do keep my distance with..Tranny guys... they are men...Yet.. i'm attractive to male ID butches.. as well as female ID butches...But I just date butch women...I feel safe with this decision... as I do ID as lesbian femme...But deep inside.. I get afraid...

 

[RebeccaRose]

I know what you mean hun.. I used to thin k I was bisexual, but then I began meeting people like my girlfriend, the butch lesbians you talk about, I .. well, I think I've found the kind of people I love. Its easy to get afraid with your decision, I used to find when some one shot me down I didn't know who I liked but ... yes... like you, I've begun to like more butch woman. not the tranny kind of guys since I still identify as lesbian, but more kind of tomboys as such.

I find it really interesting to be honest. I just.. I feel like femme's always have some kind of hidden agenda around me. And butch girls just like me for who I am.... or something like that.


Know what I mean?

 

[OnDisplay]

questnboy yahoo for iM

 

[gloriann]

Speaking in ENORMOUS general terms here, so don't get too upset... most of the younger butches I've run into have been pains in the ass. I often find that they take on the WORST of the traits of the male gender and amplify them. Most of them have no idea what it is to be a butch.

True to themselves butches of any age, they're cool, and I have run into some of those, too. In fact, one of the most respectable, honest and true people I've ever met in my life was a stone cold butch.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Speaking in ENORMOUS general terms here, so don't get too upset... most of the younger butches I've run into have been pains in the ass. I often find that they take on the WORST of the traits of the male gender and amplify them. Most of them have no idea what it is to be a butch.

True to themselves butches of any age, they're cool, and I have run into some of those, too. In fact, one of the most respectable, honest and true people I've ever met in my life was a stone cold butch.

I'm married to one of the good ones (even though she dislikes being labeled "Butch".) Sensible hair, sensible shoes, toppy in the bedroom, aggressively runs her own successful business, but cries when she needs to fire somebody. She hates dresses, but wears only beautifully styled and tailored slacks. She loves only women, but there is no mistaking what gender she is. She's not a woman trying to be a "man", she is a strong, beautiful woman, who IS being herself. She is also the most loving, wonder "poppi" to our kids that you could ever imagine (and has her own wood shop complete with power tools! )

 

[Safe_Bet]

Bumped for diversity!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah Amy! \O/

I recently got a facebook request from a woman who was pretty much straight when I met her back in the 70's.

She tells me she used to go after pretty boys-- then pretty men-- then she discovered butch women.

Oddly enough, she tells me her last three lovers have been transitioning FTMs. I said, "well, I have something to tell you..."

 

[Saphs]

In my early exploration days, I'm still into lipstick lesbians. Maybe one day I'll fall for someone you all describe here. I definitely agree about the whole hidden agenda thing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I figure any lesbian's "Hidden agenda" is nothing more than the same damn way most women are taught to communicate by hints. They don't mean to hide anything. They just don't know how to speak up. Not with men, not with women.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The only "hidden agenda" that has ever bothered me is the one that was alluded to earlier = bi-chicks who are out to get their chick-fix and then go back to their sugar daddies / normal male relationships.

That's while after getting burned a few times in my teens, I'd never go near anybody that I wasn't damn sure was a gold star and that usually meant they were usually butch.

My sweet Suzy was the first really femme I'd been attracted to for a long time and she was 110% gold star. Her only MF experience was when on a peer pressure driven "platonic" date in high school the dude tried to simultaneously kiss her and grab her tit for the first time in her life. She was pretty sure she broke his nose when she punched him in the face!

**********

The other thing about being perceived as "butch" that ALWAYS pissed me off is what my Suzy (the original Safe_Bet) was talking about in her comment earlier in this thread. NOTHING pisses me off more than some asshole (male, female, str8 or queer) saying or implying that I want to be a man, simply because I appear and act butch. NOTHING could be further from the truth. It is simply a reflection of how I feel most comfortable and how I CHOOSE to dress and act.

For ME, being "butch" (and I really DO hate the word) is not a sign or being gender queer or TG. It's just a sign of being who and what I WANT to be.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So, what makes a butch woman?

I think ONE aspect, out of many, is a style of supporting her partner in concrete and physical ways. Butches see a problem, and want to FIX it. They approach the world in a physical way-- they will want to hang a shelf, bleed the brakes on the car, solve real-life problems.

Of course, this way of approaching life might also mean approaching relationships in the same way-- less talk more action on a date. Or forgetting to talk to the other woman-- assuming she'll agree to an action or a solution without checking first. And that can be taken to extremes in the same ways that men take that approach to extremes. Don't I know it!

I don't always feel okay about simply listening and sympathizing, female-style. That's something I've had to learn to do.

So that's one thing.

 

[blueberree]

If I might add something

I feel like I'm barging in here, but I read the whole thread and the concepts are interesting to me.

Is it a term that came about from lesbians or was it a term applied to people who weren't? I honestly do not know. In any case, if it was a term applied, it seems an attempt by straight people to make non-straight people fit a dynamic they were familiar with because it didn't make sense to them that two women would be attracted to each other.

That said, I certainly know non-straight women who are kind, get things done in a concrete way, quiet, physically active/strong who someone might say "yes, she seems like she might be butch." And there are women who I know who aren't going to ascribe to the feminine things because doing so takes unnecessary time but there's nothing about their manner to me that says "butch."

I even know one wannabe butch who is also a wannabe Indian so it is probably more about her wannabe-ness than her actual outlook.

That all said there is one person who fits the description and I have a terrible crush on her and if asked, I would in fact sleep with her before a first dinner date.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Butchness meaning "more masculine" was a concept used in lesbian and gay culture, back in the days when those cultures were kept really secret. The term "butch" showed up in the thirties, i think, and again, lesbians hid their lives from straight society. So, no-- straights did not invent this word.

Wikipedia has a pretty decent entry;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_and_femme

The idea of the masculine role not being attached to the male body is so helpful to current society, though, so Butch has become better known in straight world since then.

 

[blueberree]

Thanks

Thanks. I just wasn't sure where it had originated. The Wiki article...I'd never heard "chi chi" either, except there was a realy bad Mexican food chain called Chi Chi's...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks. I just wasn't sure where it had originated. The Wiki article...I'd never heard "chi chi" either, except there was a realy bad Mexican food chain called Chi Chi's...

Haven't heard that in decades!

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Butch~

I self identify as soft butch. My baby mama can explain it better than I can. The thing is I hate the fact that the way I present myself to the world and the way the world perceives ME is completely different.

*le sigh*

I fix, plan, think, do. Am hell on wheels when it comes to building things and a complete Daddy. *shrugs* I damn sure don't wish I had a penis as the cunt is a beautiful thing. I don't look the way the word implies I should...sucks...and is part of the reason why I throw the modifier *Soft* before it.

I don't like Studs. (A black term covering the same aspects as Butch, yet a tad more thuggish at least in my area...) yet I will date a butchy white female.

How odd...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Being butch has nothing to do with wanting a penis, in my experience-- but most women who DO want a penis also present as butch. If that made sense...

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Being butch has nothing to do with wanting a penis, in my experience-- but most women who DO want a penis also present as butch. If that made sense...

It made sense to me...

(gropes for Stella's awesomeness)

It's just the butchy females I have dated...well when we are out and about, there is always one asshole who THINKS my girl is secretly wishing for some sort of extension.

*grins*

Since most of the butch females I have dated are bottomish (as there can NOT be two Tops in my relationships...and I am THE top, period!!) it makes it even odder to HEAR those sorts of comments.

(And pisses me off. Therefore, fists and words fly...while my girl stands back and says shit like~ "M, stop being such a GUY!")

 

[Stella_Omega]

Dammit Luna, I wish you were groping my... well, anything, really.

Since most of the butch females I have dated are bottomish (as there can NOT be two Tops in my relationships...and I am THE top, period!!) it makes it even odder to HEAR those sorts of comments.

LOL yeah!

and yeah about the comments, too.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Dammit Luna, I wish you were groping my... well, anything, really.

LOL yeah!

and yeah about the comments, too.

Woman, if you were just a wee bit closer...I would grope anything you allowed...

(and probably some shit you ain't know you wanted groped til I did it...)

My FwB now (very butch, so sweet) says that I have anger issues and am evil because I am short and genderbent!!

*shrugs*

For the most part genderfucked folk or Butch women/ Femme men are just so friggin awesome to me. Playing with identity is something most people don't do...so when I see someone who is comfortable and confident enough (within themselves) to allow the world to see them the way they perceive themselves to BE...well it's an instant turn on.

And it's why I am drawn to women who are very Butch or very Femme...as I am not. And wouldn't know how to be other than what I am~which is boi inside and complete slut puppy outside...

*shrugs*

 

[Stella_Omega]

yeah, I don't know how anyone could not have a few anger issues.

 

[Dizzyfish]

Some of the most beautiful lesbians I have ever met were labeled, "butch." They were nicely tailored. I think the female persona has been amplified by the whole, beauty of Coco Chanel dresses and shoes and with great gobs of dyed hair in large curls with ice all over. It's old, and honestly not all that pretty, but because of that, these women seem to be crude and, "butchy."

I am rambling. XD But all I am saying is, I don't think they are butch, I think they have a different style of dress and mannerisms, and just because they choose this over being in a dress doesn't mean they are any less beautiful, or less female for that matter.

So MAAAAAAD props for all your gorgeous, strong willed females. Keep on rocking my world! <3

 

[Safe_Bet]

It made sense to me...

(gropes for Stella's awesomeness)

It's just the butchy females I have dated...well when we are out and about, there is always one asshole who THINKS my girl is secretly wishing for some sort of extension.

*grins*

Since most of the butch females I have dated are bottomish (as there can NOT be two Tops in my relationships...and I am THE top, period!!) it makes it even odder to HEAR those sorts of comments.

(And pisses me off. Therefore, fists and words fly...while my girl stands back and says shit like~ "M, stop being such a GUY!")

Ya see, that's the kind of thing I was talking about before. Just because I might SHARE a few characteristic and behaviors that are often, an erroneously IMO, ascribed to the male gender, that doesn't mean I'm acting like a "guy" or that I wish I had a dick.

Just because some controlling Victorian fuckwaffles in the past decided that to be a woman you MUST never raise your voice, can't enjoy woodworking and, god forbid, enjoy being toppy, doesn't make it so.

I LIKE wearing a suit and a tie. I like doing and acting like I do. I like the way I look. If they don't, then they had better pucker real hard cuz they can kiss my Doc Martens AND my ass!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Amy, that's exactly why your jokes about midol bother me. If your assertiveness is not male-gendered, then why ascribe other behaviors to femaleness-- especially ones you don't happen to respect...

Think about it, please.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Amy, that's exactly why your jokes about midol bother me. If your assertiveness is not male-gendered, then why ascribe other behaviors to femaleness-- especially ones you don't happen to respect...

Think about it, please.

Thought about it. Now here's something for you to think about:

Definition: sar·casm [sahr-kaz-uhm]

–noun

1. remarks that mean the opposite of what they seem to say and are intended to mock or deride
2. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
3. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark