busybody..
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They are wrong.Weevil said:
Bush and Kerry on the Actual Issues
- Thread starter Dixon Carter Lee
- Start date
RobDownSouth
BoycotDivestSanctio
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Dixon Carter Lee
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RobDownSouth said:
I'll look at that, thanks. And I think that goes along with what everyone's said here. So, basically, we're all as smart as 10 Nobel prize winning economists. Excellent.
Dixon Carter Lee
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Supporting the death penalty has always seemed a dodge to me. It's a fake way to prove you're "tough on crime", despite statistics showing that it does nothing to scare criminals.
busybody..
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WEEVIL
You are a candidate for elimination.
Salon will say ANYTHING and has said EVERYTHING to advance the useless agenda of KomradKerry.
Winter Soldier Investigation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Winter Soldier Investigation was a meeting of American Vietnam War veterans as well as civilians at which information was given alleging atrocities against the popualtion of Vietnam by U.S. troops.
The meeting took place in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31-February 2, 1971 as an activity of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and was presented as an assembly of 109 Vietnam War Veterans and 16 civilians which alleged specific war crimes by the United States in Vietnam during the years of 1963-1970. The soldiers' testimony often overlaps, alleging a pattern of atrocities against the Vietnamese people. According to Stolen Valor author Burkett, the investigation has been thoroughly discredited, while the VVAW maintains the validity of all accounts and participants except Al Hubbard. Hundreds of known violations were prosecuted by the military, however, none of those testifying specifically at this event are known to have been prosecuted.
Jane Fonda helped raise funds for the event, and organizers included Dick Gregory, Phil Ochs, Graham Nash, David Crosby, and Donald Sutherland.
Future Senator John Kerry, then a decorated lieutenant in the Naval Reserve (inactive status), would shortly thereafter testify before the American Congress to the general conclusions gathered in Detroit. Prior to Winter Soldier, Kerry interviewed some of the participants to familiarize himself with their complaints. They were officially interviewed during the three day hearing in Detroit by moderator Al Hubbard, while Kerry observed.
Sen. Mark Hatfield of Oregon entered the Winter Soldier transcripts into the Congressional Record and asked the commandant of the Marine Corps for an investigation of the Marines that testified. Investigators were unable to confirm or refute the claimed atrocities, but identified one organizer (Al Hubbard) as never being in combat. Guenter Lewy in America in Vietnam says "The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities."
[edit]
Testimony Troubles the Nation
The February 3, 1971, Detroit Free Press interviewed James Weber and Ron Palosaari, and another soldier (Wilson, by phone, as he hadn't heard of the hearings) all of the same Americal unit, after the Winter Soldier Hearings. Weber told of witnessing an attack on a village by white phosphorous artillery and air strikes - an event neither he nor Palosaari mentioned during the hearings. Palosaari and Wilson confirmed the artillery and air strikes, but differed in opinion about the amount of damage done. Palosaari noted the strikes did hit the village, "because we could see people running around and trying to drag away bodies." They had photos of a large arms cache uncovered in the village, it apparently being a Vietcong stronghold. The Pentagon confirmed that Weber and Palosaari were Vietnam veterans. To view the events they actually testified about at the hearings, and had entered into congressional record, see the Winter Soldier Investigation link below.
[edit]
Excerpted testimonies
Bishop: "I hardly saw any MEDIVACS at all taking out wounded Vietnamese civilians or Vietnamese prisoners. Usually we didn't have any prisoners. The prisoners were exterminated.
Bangert: "I was picked up by a truckload of grunt Marines with two company grade officers, 1st Lts.; we were about 5 miles down the road, where there were some Vietnamese children at the gateway of the village and they gave the old finger gesture at us. It was understandable that they picked this up from the GIs there. They stopped the trucks--they didn't stop the truck, they slowed down a little bit, and it was just like response, the guys got up, including the lieutenants, and just blew all the kids away. There were about five or six kids blown away and then the truck just continued down the hill. That was my first day in Vietnam.
Bronaugh: "The bridge got a radio call that they had supposedly received a sniper round from this village. So the Lt. on the bridge told them to sweep the village. They swept the village and they called back that there was nothing found. There was nothing found, I mean, there were just people in the village and so the Lt. told them to burn the village"..."From where I was standing, I saw maybe two or three male villagers and the rest were women and children--some of the children walking and some of them young enough to be carried, I would say under a year, maybe. The last thing I heard as a command was the gunnery sergeant told them to open fire to keep them back. Their village was on fire and they were in panic; they didn't stop, so they just cut down the women and children with mortars, machine guns, tank, snipers were"..."Well, the tank, the 90 millimeter gun wasn't used because, I mean, it was too close a range, but they used the .50 and the .30 off the tank and all the troops that were at the bridge with M16s. The officer, a Lt., a few got close enough to where he used his .45. They used a few frag hand grenades."
Camile: "I really don't know that much about what it is or what it's made of. I just know that when it gets on you it burns and when they drop it from the planes, they usually drop two big canisters of napalm at a time. It just burns everything up, including the people.
Many times we've called in air before we'd go into a village, or if we had a village where we'd lost people because of booby traps, we'd call in napalm and it just burns down the village and the people"..."most of the time it was for safety. We'd napalm it first before we'd even go in just to make sure we wouldn't lose any men without any fire whatsoever. It was just for our protection, supposedly."
Nienke: "I think every person who was in Vietnam who was in the infantry used CS, which is a gas, chemicals, Willie Peter--that's White Phosphorus--and we used these sometimes to clear bunkers and other times to destroy a hootch. We used to think that was kicks; there would be people in a hootch or something like this and we'd throw in a gas grenade and they'd cough and then we'd leave. And other times we used to use--we had mortar squads in the infantry used to avoid going into a village or something if we thought it might be VC infested or something like this, we'd send in Willie Peter mortars, 60 millimeters, and this would burn up the hootches --that explode--throwing white phosphorus on different hootches in the village. Start the hootches burning and also kill people. It's probably one of the worst sights I've ever seen is a person that's been burned by Willie Peter, because it doesn't stop. It just burns all completely through your body. The only way you can end this burning is to cut off the air."
Olimpieri: "...it was usually the officers, but I can remember times where we'd be sitting up on a hill, Nick and myself, and they used to have these things called "Pop-ups." You hit them on the bottom and it shoots like a green star cluster up in the air. It's used for location when somebody wants to find out where you are and we used to shoot them down into the village that was below and watch the people run around and we used to get big kicks out of it"..."it was pretty well accepted. I mean, everybody did it.
Bishop: "We were on Operation Taylor Common. We were up in the mountains. We were operating just above the Laotian border where Laos and Cambodia meet. We were making heavy contact up there. We had quite a few losses and most of the operations we were holding were usually squad type or platoon type because the area was so thick and we couldn't send big units in there. We were very close to the border and very many times we were fired upon and we would chase the enemy back and you wouldn't know really how many grid squares you would go. We would come back to the unit and even though we knew we were close to Cambodia, we'd come back and the skipper would kind of get us all together and say like, "That was really a far out thing we did today and just for your own information we were in another country." This was general knowledge at the time that we were going back and forth into Cambodia.
Unidentified panelist: "We never really had that much incentive for body counts. But this is slightly related. You know, everybody likes souvenirs. That's sort of like an American pastime. I went to visit a friend. There was a Connex--it's a metal box that they ship goods over to Vietnam in, and they're big enough for a man to walk in. On top of it was a set of ears drying in the sun. This was right behind the battalion TOC, which is Tactical Operations Center. They could not help but see a set of ears on Connex, you know, drying in the sun. I thought at first that it was revolting, but after a while I thought, you know, hey man, maybe I want a souvenir. One of these days when I come across a body I'll get myself a finger or an ear. When I went over there, it was a revolting idea. But then, you know, once you did kill a body, you could bring back the souvenir that you did kill it."
[edit]
Phony Vietnam veterans alleged in books
Guenter Lewy's 1978 book America in Vietnam (pages 316-317) and B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley's Stolen Valor (Verity Press, Inc., Dallas, Texas)(pages 113, 131-137) contain similar information about alleged flaws in Lane's book. Neither book, however, refutes any of the testimony given during the Winter Soldier Investigation.
Lawyer and leftist activist Mark Lane was one of the organizers of Winter Soldier. In 1970, Lane had published a book called Conversations With Americans purporting to be interviews with Vietnam veterans about war crimes, containing Vietnam tales of atrocities. Reporter Neil Sheehan showed some interviewed in Lane's book had never served in Vietnam and others had not been in the situations they described. Lane admitted he did not check military records, as confirmation of details was not relevant. Lane later confirmed these military records.
The following are often falsely listed as being participants in Winter Soldier, but were actually in Lane's book instead. This confusion is probably due to Stolen Valor having an explanation of Lane's history within the section on Winter Soldier.
Chuck Onan, stock room clerk in Beaufort, S.C.
Michael Schneider, deserted in Europe and deserted again in the USA.
Terry Whitmore, was in an unpopulated area of Vietnam.
Garry Gianninoto, medical corpsman at battalion headquarters.
VVAW leader and Winter Soldier co-organizer Al Hubbard lied about being an officer, and sustaining war injuries - but he never testified at Winter Soldier .
According to the investigative work of Burkett, Lewy and others, there were many imposters, liars, and plain nutjobs who infiltrated the ranks of the anti-war movement, and, in some cases, testified to war crimes and atrocities that never occurred in order to get attention, sympathy, and, in one documented case, medals and honors. It is also true, as noted by author Gerald Nicosia in his authoritative history of the Vietnam Veterans Movement “Home to War”, that those discredited voices were never key witnesses in either the Winter Soldier Investigation or in subsequent war crimes investigations such as the congressional Dellums Hearings of 1971.
Also from that same chapter in Guenter Lewy's book America in Vietnam (page 309): "The conflict in Vietnam was a guerilla war without fronts, and this created a setting especially conducive to atrocities. Aggressive behavior is often the result of frustration and anxiety, and the American servicemen in Vietnam experienced both of these states of mind in abundance ...
Gradually the entire Vietnamese population became an object of fear and hatred. As a marine lieutenant told an American doctor: "You walk through the fucking bush for three days and nights without sleep. Watch your men, your buddies, your goddamn kids get booby trapped. Blown apart. Get thrown six feet in the air by a trap laid by an old lady and come down with no legs." Eventually you conclude, he said, that the only thing to do is 'kill them all.'"
While no one involved with the Winter Soldier Investigation, and subsequent Senate hearings, ever accused "all" servicemen of misconduct - it was obvious the problem had grown beyond "isolated incident" status. The problem was perceived by the participants as epidemic, and was seen as ignored and even condoned by leaders at all levels in the military and government. Winter Soldier was the culmination of efforts to finally bring national attention to this situation, and to expedite the end of America's participation in the Vietnam conflict.
[edit]
External links
World On Fire (http://worldonfire.typepad.com/world_on_fire/2004/05/stabbed_in_the_.html) Columnist Rick Freedman on Winter Soldier
VVAW Archives (http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=421&print=yes) The truth behind "Stolen Valor"
Baltimore Sun Article (http://www.bushcountry.org/news/feb_news_pages/n_022304_kerry_soldier_anti-war.htm) Vietnam Vets Stand by Kerry Today
Winter Soldier Investigation (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html) Sixties project archive
Wintersoldier.com (http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline) - partisan examination
FBI VVAW file during Winter Soldier (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/fbifiles/100-HQ-448092/Section 02/Section 02.pdf) (18 megabyte PDF file)
[edit]
Books
Nicosia, Gerald (2002). Home to War: A History of the Vietnam Veterans' Movement. CA: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 0609809067
Burkett, B. G. & Whitley, Glenna (1998). Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History. Dallas: Verity Press Inc. ISBN 096670360X.
Lewy, Guenter (1978). America in Vietnam. New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195023919. ISBN 0195027329 pbk.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Soldier_Investigation"
You are a candidate for elimination.
Salon will say ANYTHING and has said EVERYTHING to advance the useless agenda of KomradKerry.
Winter Soldier Investigation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Winter Soldier Investigation was a meeting of American Vietnam War veterans as well as civilians at which information was given alleging atrocities against the popualtion of Vietnam by U.S. troops.
The meeting took place in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31-February 2, 1971 as an activity of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and was presented as an assembly of 109 Vietnam War Veterans and 16 civilians which alleged specific war crimes by the United States in Vietnam during the years of 1963-1970. The soldiers' testimony often overlaps, alleging a pattern of atrocities against the Vietnamese people. According to Stolen Valor author Burkett, the investigation has been thoroughly discredited, while the VVAW maintains the validity of all accounts and participants except Al Hubbard. Hundreds of known violations were prosecuted by the military, however, none of those testifying specifically at this event are known to have been prosecuted.
Jane Fonda helped raise funds for the event, and organizers included Dick Gregory, Phil Ochs, Graham Nash, David Crosby, and Donald Sutherland.
Future Senator John Kerry, then a decorated lieutenant in the Naval Reserve (inactive status), would shortly thereafter testify before the American Congress to the general conclusions gathered in Detroit. Prior to Winter Soldier, Kerry interviewed some of the participants to familiarize himself with their complaints. They were officially interviewed during the three day hearing in Detroit by moderator Al Hubbard, while Kerry observed.
Sen. Mark Hatfield of Oregon entered the Winter Soldier transcripts into the Congressional Record and asked the commandant of the Marine Corps for an investigation of the Marines that testified. Investigators were unable to confirm or refute the claimed atrocities, but identified one organizer (Al Hubbard) as never being in combat. Guenter Lewy in America in Vietnam says "The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities."
[edit]
Testimony Troubles the Nation
The February 3, 1971, Detroit Free Press interviewed James Weber and Ron Palosaari, and another soldier (Wilson, by phone, as he hadn't heard of the hearings) all of the same Americal unit, after the Winter Soldier Hearings. Weber told of witnessing an attack on a village by white phosphorous artillery and air strikes - an event neither he nor Palosaari mentioned during the hearings. Palosaari and Wilson confirmed the artillery and air strikes, but differed in opinion about the amount of damage done. Palosaari noted the strikes did hit the village, "because we could see people running around and trying to drag away bodies." They had photos of a large arms cache uncovered in the village, it apparently being a Vietcong stronghold. The Pentagon confirmed that Weber and Palosaari were Vietnam veterans. To view the events they actually testified about at the hearings, and had entered into congressional record, see the Winter Soldier Investigation link below.
[edit]
Excerpted testimonies
Bishop: "I hardly saw any MEDIVACS at all taking out wounded Vietnamese civilians or Vietnamese prisoners. Usually we didn't have any prisoners. The prisoners were exterminated.
Bangert: "I was picked up by a truckload of grunt Marines with two company grade officers, 1st Lts.; we were about 5 miles down the road, where there were some Vietnamese children at the gateway of the village and they gave the old finger gesture at us. It was understandable that they picked this up from the GIs there. They stopped the trucks--they didn't stop the truck, they slowed down a little bit, and it was just like response, the guys got up, including the lieutenants, and just blew all the kids away. There were about five or six kids blown away and then the truck just continued down the hill. That was my first day in Vietnam.
Bronaugh: "The bridge got a radio call that they had supposedly received a sniper round from this village. So the Lt. on the bridge told them to sweep the village. They swept the village and they called back that there was nothing found. There was nothing found, I mean, there were just people in the village and so the Lt. told them to burn the village"..."From where I was standing, I saw maybe two or three male villagers and the rest were women and children--some of the children walking and some of them young enough to be carried, I would say under a year, maybe. The last thing I heard as a command was the gunnery sergeant told them to open fire to keep them back. Their village was on fire and they were in panic; they didn't stop, so they just cut down the women and children with mortars, machine guns, tank, snipers were"..."Well, the tank, the 90 millimeter gun wasn't used because, I mean, it was too close a range, but they used the .50 and the .30 off the tank and all the troops that were at the bridge with M16s. The officer, a Lt., a few got close enough to where he used his .45. They used a few frag hand grenades."
Camile: "I really don't know that much about what it is or what it's made of. I just know that when it gets on you it burns and when they drop it from the planes, they usually drop two big canisters of napalm at a time. It just burns everything up, including the people.
Many times we've called in air before we'd go into a village, or if we had a village where we'd lost people because of booby traps, we'd call in napalm and it just burns down the village and the people"..."most of the time it was for safety. We'd napalm it first before we'd even go in just to make sure we wouldn't lose any men without any fire whatsoever. It was just for our protection, supposedly."
Nienke: "I think every person who was in Vietnam who was in the infantry used CS, which is a gas, chemicals, Willie Peter--that's White Phosphorus--and we used these sometimes to clear bunkers and other times to destroy a hootch. We used to think that was kicks; there would be people in a hootch or something like this and we'd throw in a gas grenade and they'd cough and then we'd leave. And other times we used to use--we had mortar squads in the infantry used to avoid going into a village or something if we thought it might be VC infested or something like this, we'd send in Willie Peter mortars, 60 millimeters, and this would burn up the hootches --that explode--throwing white phosphorus on different hootches in the village. Start the hootches burning and also kill people. It's probably one of the worst sights I've ever seen is a person that's been burned by Willie Peter, because it doesn't stop. It just burns all completely through your body. The only way you can end this burning is to cut off the air."
Olimpieri: "...it was usually the officers, but I can remember times where we'd be sitting up on a hill, Nick and myself, and they used to have these things called "Pop-ups." You hit them on the bottom and it shoots like a green star cluster up in the air. It's used for location when somebody wants to find out where you are and we used to shoot them down into the village that was below and watch the people run around and we used to get big kicks out of it"..."it was pretty well accepted. I mean, everybody did it.
Bishop: "We were on Operation Taylor Common. We were up in the mountains. We were operating just above the Laotian border where Laos and Cambodia meet. We were making heavy contact up there. We had quite a few losses and most of the operations we were holding were usually squad type or platoon type because the area was so thick and we couldn't send big units in there. We were very close to the border and very many times we were fired upon and we would chase the enemy back and you wouldn't know really how many grid squares you would go. We would come back to the unit and even though we knew we were close to Cambodia, we'd come back and the skipper would kind of get us all together and say like, "That was really a far out thing we did today and just for your own information we were in another country." This was general knowledge at the time that we were going back and forth into Cambodia.
Unidentified panelist: "We never really had that much incentive for body counts. But this is slightly related. You know, everybody likes souvenirs. That's sort of like an American pastime. I went to visit a friend. There was a Connex--it's a metal box that they ship goods over to Vietnam in, and they're big enough for a man to walk in. On top of it was a set of ears drying in the sun. This was right behind the battalion TOC, which is Tactical Operations Center. They could not help but see a set of ears on Connex, you know, drying in the sun. I thought at first that it was revolting, but after a while I thought, you know, hey man, maybe I want a souvenir. One of these days when I come across a body I'll get myself a finger or an ear. When I went over there, it was a revolting idea. But then, you know, once you did kill a body, you could bring back the souvenir that you did kill it."
[edit]
Phony Vietnam veterans alleged in books
Guenter Lewy's 1978 book America in Vietnam (pages 316-317) and B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley's Stolen Valor (Verity Press, Inc., Dallas, Texas)(pages 113, 131-137) contain similar information about alleged flaws in Lane's book. Neither book, however, refutes any of the testimony given during the Winter Soldier Investigation.
Lawyer and leftist activist Mark Lane was one of the organizers of Winter Soldier. In 1970, Lane had published a book called Conversations With Americans purporting to be interviews with Vietnam veterans about war crimes, containing Vietnam tales of atrocities. Reporter Neil Sheehan showed some interviewed in Lane's book had never served in Vietnam and others had not been in the situations they described. Lane admitted he did not check military records, as confirmation of details was not relevant. Lane later confirmed these military records.
The following are often falsely listed as being participants in Winter Soldier, but were actually in Lane's book instead. This confusion is probably due to Stolen Valor having an explanation of Lane's history within the section on Winter Soldier.
Chuck Onan, stock room clerk in Beaufort, S.C.
Michael Schneider, deserted in Europe and deserted again in the USA.
Terry Whitmore, was in an unpopulated area of Vietnam.
Garry Gianninoto, medical corpsman at battalion headquarters.
VVAW leader and Winter Soldier co-organizer Al Hubbard lied about being an officer, and sustaining war injuries - but he never testified at Winter Soldier .
According to the investigative work of Burkett, Lewy and others, there were many imposters, liars, and plain nutjobs who infiltrated the ranks of the anti-war movement, and, in some cases, testified to war crimes and atrocities that never occurred in order to get attention, sympathy, and, in one documented case, medals and honors. It is also true, as noted by author Gerald Nicosia in his authoritative history of the Vietnam Veterans Movement “Home to War”, that those discredited voices were never key witnesses in either the Winter Soldier Investigation or in subsequent war crimes investigations such as the congressional Dellums Hearings of 1971.
Also from that same chapter in Guenter Lewy's book America in Vietnam (page 309): "The conflict in Vietnam was a guerilla war without fronts, and this created a setting especially conducive to atrocities. Aggressive behavior is often the result of frustration and anxiety, and the American servicemen in Vietnam experienced both of these states of mind in abundance ...
Gradually the entire Vietnamese population became an object of fear and hatred. As a marine lieutenant told an American doctor: "You walk through the fucking bush for three days and nights without sleep. Watch your men, your buddies, your goddamn kids get booby trapped. Blown apart. Get thrown six feet in the air by a trap laid by an old lady and come down with no legs." Eventually you conclude, he said, that the only thing to do is 'kill them all.'"
While no one involved with the Winter Soldier Investigation, and subsequent Senate hearings, ever accused "all" servicemen of misconduct - it was obvious the problem had grown beyond "isolated incident" status. The problem was perceived by the participants as epidemic, and was seen as ignored and even condoned by leaders at all levels in the military and government. Winter Soldier was the culmination of efforts to finally bring national attention to this situation, and to expedite the end of America's participation in the Vietnam conflict.
[edit]
External links
World On Fire (http://worldonfire.typepad.com/world_on_fire/2004/05/stabbed_in_the_.html) Columnist Rick Freedman on Winter Soldier
VVAW Archives (http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=421&print=yes) The truth behind "Stolen Valor"
Baltimore Sun Article (http://www.bushcountry.org/news/feb_news_pages/n_022304_kerry_soldier_anti-war.htm) Vietnam Vets Stand by Kerry Today
Winter Soldier Investigation (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html) Sixties project archive
Wintersoldier.com (http://www.wintersoldier.com/index.php?topic=Timeline) - partisan examination
FBI VVAW file during Winter Soldier (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/fbifiles/100-HQ-448092/Section 02/Section 02.pdf) (18 megabyte PDF file)
[edit]
Books
Nicosia, Gerald (2002). Home to War: A History of the Vietnam Veterans' Movement. CA: Three Rivers Press. ISBN 0609809067
Burkett, B. G. & Whitley, Glenna (1998). Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History. Dallas: Verity Press Inc. ISBN 096670360X.
Lewy, Guenter (1978). America in Vietnam. New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195023919. ISBN 0195027329 pbk.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Soldier_Investigation"
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
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- 48,682
Particularly today with DNA evidence getting guys wrongly placed on Death Row off.
busybody..
Literotica Guru
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Actually they were not.Weevil said:
I cant wait for your extermination and take your family, if you have one with you.
ASAP!
busybody..
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Kerry: Opposes “other than in cases of real international and domestic terrorists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF??????????????
When it came to a vote, HE VOTED AGAINST the death penalty for terrorists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF??????????????
When it came to a vote, HE VOTED AGAINST the death penalty for terrorists.
GeorgeWBush
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Dixon Carter Lee said:
Yea i noticed that a few out of place workers at the McD's near me most are mentaly challenged and teenagers.
I watch c-span once in awhile and they were talking about the defense budget they add 25 billion more to it.
And that 87 billion only a fraction went to the military most went to bush and cheneys friends.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
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- Nov 22, 1999
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- 48,682
In the past two years there have been repeorts that teenagers cannot get summer jobs anymore, because they're all being taken by the elderly. So, in five years we'll have old people flipping burgers and bored teens skateboarding drugs around town.
busybody said:
We're talking about the testimony before the senate, not what was in some book. Fact is, what was in your letter was a bunch of girly-men complaining that somebody called them on the atrocities they committed. Bunch of faggoty wimps, they are.
Dixon Carter Lee
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Dude. You have a PM.
ruminator
An unusual mind
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On the issue of foreign policy Bush might have an air of arrogance in his attitude but maybe that's what we need.
The neoconservative faction has had a little too much unchecked input but his character and resolve could fine tune that into something productive. It makes sense to establish military forces in areas of strategic energy supplies. It's not a whacked theory, just 'provocative'. *sigh,*.....it's not easy being the ruler of a world superpower.
The importance in control of petroleum reserve output and export can't be underestimated. A radical transformation of power or politics in any of those countries could swiftly cripple our economy. If Kerry is purporting control through diplomacy only, how can that be more effective than securing it through the spread of democracy.
The naysayers of the current foreign policy direction might only be shortsighted in a realistic view of the world's future.
/con-temp
The neoconservative faction has had a little too much unchecked input but his character and resolve could fine tune that into something productive. It makes sense to establish military forces in areas of strategic energy supplies. It's not a whacked theory, just 'provocative'. *sigh,*.....it's not easy being the ruler of a world superpower.
The importance in control of petroleum reserve output and export can't be underestimated. A radical transformation of power or politics in any of those countries could swiftly cripple our economy. If Kerry is purporting control through diplomacy only, how can that be more effective than securing it through the spread of democracy.
The naysayers of the current foreign policy direction might only be shortsighted in a realistic view of the world's future.
/con-temp
busybody..
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WEEVIL YOU SHITHOLE
ComradeDIX
has ordered you to IGNORE me
Did you get the MEMO?
See he thinks you cant think for yourself, he has to order you around, WIMP, GIMP, Cleland cock sucking DemonCreep
ComradeDIX
has ordered you to IGNORE me
Did you get the MEMO?
See he thinks you cant think for yourself, he has to order you around, WIMP, GIMP, Cleland cock sucking DemonCreep
busybody..
Literotica Guru
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Is this ebonics?ruminator said:
ruminator
An unusual mind
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Dixon Carter Lee said:
The Bush plan has already taken this into consideration. As part of DHS the skateboarding teens will be incorporated into local patrols and deployed in areas of vulnerability.
An option of that is to let them act as courriers to Canada for scripts for the old folks.
sonicspeed
Really Experienced
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- Aug 4, 2004
- Posts
- 221
i try to never get into any type of mudslinging contests............all i will say on the bush versus kerry election is that i have studied each of their records and can say that i am still a bush supporter
busybody..
Literotica Guru
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- 149,503
Kerry abusing disabled vets since 1970
That '70s Show
"I called the media. . . . I said, 'If I take some crippled veterans down to the White House and we chain ourselves to the gates, will we get coverage?' 'Oh, yes, we will cover that.' "--John Kerry, testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971
"Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war. Cleland . . . will try to deliver a letter protesting the [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] ads to [President] Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said."--Reuters, Aug. 25, 2004
That '70s Show
"I called the media. . . . I said, 'If I take some crippled veterans down to the White House and we chain ourselves to the gates, will we get coverage?' 'Oh, yes, we will cover that.' "--John Kerry, testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971
"Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war. Cleland . . . will try to deliver a letter protesting the [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] ads to [President] Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said."--Reuters, Aug. 25, 2004
busybody..
Literotica Guru
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englishruminator said:
scylis
Assassin/Subtlety Spec'd
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2000
- Posts
- 9,876
Dixon Carter Lee said:
five years? i'm seeing that already. fucking bastard, he's sending the economy down the toilet faster than an unwanted teen pregnancy on prom night. i mean, i'm having to work at Wal*Mart... Wal*Fucking*Mart... because between the economy going down like a cheap Taiwanese hooker and the rising gas prices, nobody wants to fork over money to have people killed anymore. i used to jet around the world, prowling around in exotic locations, imersed in intrigue and profitable death. now it's either find work as a stand-up, average mercinary in some gods-forsaken third world country or wear a blue smock. and i have some standards...
*heavy sigh* now if you'll excuse me, i have to go catch a bus so i can pretend to be pleasant to fuckwits for the rest of the day.
ruminator
An unusual mind
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
- Posts
- 20,828
busybody quote:
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Originally posted by ruminator
Do I need to type slower?
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english
I'm désolé. I don't vous comprennent.
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Originally posted by ruminator
Do I need to type slower?
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english
I'm désolé. I don't vous comprennent.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1999
- Posts
- 48,682
ruminator said:
I'd love to turn Bush's Hawkish bluster productive, but they're following a One World Order game plan layed out years ago in a Defense Report prepared by the Project for a New American Century. ("Rebuilding America's Defenses", written in 2000. Read it here..
Well, that's a bit simplistic. Bush doesn't agree with everything they propose, particularly since the report was written before 9/11 -- but the ideology is solidly Bush.
I don't think Kerry has any intention of relying only on diplomacy. He supports his decision to vote to give Bush power to use force (AFTER trying inspections and engaging the United Nations). I'm sure that when push comes to shove Kerry, as President of the United States of America, will be appropriately kick-ass.
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
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- Posts
- 48,682
scylis said:
The "five years" was a reference to how long Bush says he needs to fix things by allowing the tax breaks to the wealthy "kick in" for the middle class.
Now, where can I find light bulbs?
