Below the belt

[Rightguide]

Seems like the IDF did a pretty good job on Hezbollah's command structure. Read something about Ali Karaki being eliminated yesterday?

And the fat guy's days are numbered......


View attachment 2397207

Yep, an organizational decapitation.

 

[Rightguide]

Israel doesn’t use the Patriot anti-missile system. Hezbollah has launched thousands of missiles at Israeli cities over the past year. The only reason there haven’t been mass casualties is that Iron Dome has intercepted 90% of them.

Hopefully, now that Israel has killed most of Hezbollah’s leadership this ongoing attack will wind down.

Unless Iran steps in.

 

[deckardB26354]

Hopefully, now that Israel has killed most of Hezbollah’s leadership this ongoing attack will wind down.

Until Hezbollah has a re-org, then it’s back on because they’re all hiding in a school or apartment somewhere.

 

[butters]

how solid is the peace treaty, nearly 30-years old, between Israel and Jordan?

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-...:text=Israel-Jordan border. The Israel-Jordan

the majority of Jordanians are Palestinian and there's been an increasing wave of radicalization amongst them due to the Gaza/West Bank conflicts. According to the article, maybe as many as 60% support hamas. The Queen of Jordan (herself Palestinian) was busy speaking out against Israeli attacks and territory annexing, and the King addressed the UN yesterday over the issues.

The best expression of the mindset in Jordan could be seen in the elections held earlier this month. Although the Muslim Brotherhood was disbanded in the past and outlawed in the country, the party that supports its ideology - the Islamic Action Front - is gaining ground in the country. In the previous elections, it won 10 seats in parliament, and now it has tripled its number. "From a practical point of view, this shows that Islam is strong and getting stronger in all of Jordan," says Prof. Ronen Yitzhak, an expert on Jordan and head of the Middle Eastern Studies at the Western Galilee Academic College. "If in the past it was assumed that it was only in the big cities, now it turns out that it is also in the villages, in the periphery. This means that even the Bedouin tribes, who are supposedly loyal to the government, also see Islam as a political solution.

"You have to understand that according to polls, two-thirds of Jordanian citizens supported the Hamas attack. This is also related to the fact that in 2002 Jordan privatized the media channels and began broadcasting additional channels, such as Al Jazeera. In fact, it is the most watched station in Jordan, significantly. When talking about a trend of Islamic radicalization in Jordan, its roots are also in Al Jazeera."

with Israel now looking intent on moving troops directly in Lebanon, it can only aggravate tensions between Israel and Jordan; with so many Jordanians quite clear in their minds that they not only don't want to "normalize" any relations with Israel but would, indeed, welcome an eradication of the state of Israel completely, Israel's moves here seem both inflammatory and damaging to its own cause. It would appear that Israel (the gov't of Netanyahu and Giv'r at least) is intent on creating a much broader arena of conflict in the Middle East. How much of this is all about those in power in Israel clinging to that power? Sacrificing Israeli men and women (and what about rescuing the hostages?) to make themselves appear a 'strong' power and dragging the US into escalations? It smacks of the one creating further aggression crying out that they are the victim!

To reiterate, I believe hamas needs to be gone, also Netanyahu and his other power brokers... I want to see all hostages returned, preferably alive, I don't want to see Israel pushing into Lebanon, further straining the almost 30-year old peace treaty with Jordan. It is counterproductive to Israeli's needs and an expensive and dangerous escalation that will test American commitment and American purses.

 

[butters]

even as Israel prepares its ground invasion into Lebanon, Anthony Blinken and President Biden seek diplomatic answers

Secretary of State Antony Blinken told "Good Morning America" on Wednesday that the escalating conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon "needs to be contained."​

"We're working to make sure this doesn't get into a full-scale war," Blinken said. Asked if he believes such escalation can be prevented, Blinken responded: "I do."

"Israel has a legitimate problem it has to solve," Blinken said, noting Hezbollah's near-constant cross-border strikes since Oct. 8 and the subsequent evacuation of parts of northern Israel.

Blinken also acknowledged those fleeing their homes amid Israeli retaliation in southern Lebanon.

In a speech to the United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday, Biden condemned Hezbollah's "unprovoked" attacks into Israel since Oct. 8.

"Almost a year later, too many on each side of the Israeli-Lebanon border remain displaced," the president said.

"Full-scale war is not in anyone's interest," he added. "Even as the situation has escalated, a diplomatic solution is still possible. In fact, it remains the only path to lasting security to allow the residents from both countries to return to their homes on the border safely."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=4d20ec15eba84cf4a18ab31e7019752f&ei=66

 

[ll74]

At this point, I'll be surprised if Israel doesn't attack Iran. Seems inevitable.

 

[deckardB26354]

At this point, I'll be surprised if Israel doesn't attack Iran. Seems inevitable.

Guess who gets dragged into that shitstorm?

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...31&cvid=fdff9cadba2647b3bd439737ae1505cd&ei=9

Israel says its objective is to secure the border so that tens of thousands of people who fled under Hezbollah fire nearly a year ago can return to their homes. But it's far from clear that its recent operations — as tactically successful as they were — will bring that about.

"No one either in or out of the defense establishment has any clue as to how to translate these brilliant operational achievements into political benefit, into a real victory that will stop the war in the north," columnist Nadav Eyal wrote in Israel's Yediot Ahronot newspaper.

 

[butters]

UK sends 700 troops to Cyprus to be ready to evacuate UK nationals in the event of escalations. Brits have been urged to leave Lebanon ahead of likely Israeli incursions but the commercial escape routes may be cut off, hence the troops and the Royal Airforce on standby.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=fdff9cadba2647b3bd439737ae1505cd&ei=120

 

[butters]

If Hezbollah, if Israel was to achieve its objectives, even if it was to kill every last Hamas fighter, every last Hezbollah fighter, how long will that keep Israel safe? As long as there is an illegal, crushing occupation, as long as people are denied their basic human rights, their freedoms, then there will always be resistance.

Queen Rania of Jordan

i don't agree entirely with her point of view throughout the long interview, but feel the above is a totally valid one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=fdff9cadba2647b3bd439737ae1505cd&ei=239

 

[Yarglenurp]

Queen Rania of Jordan

i don't agree entirely with her point of view throughout the long interview, but feel the above is a totally valid one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...&cvid=fdff9cadba2647b3bd439737ae1505cd&ei=239

Yeah, she point out something most western folk pretend to not see… the native population hates Israel and is always present, both in and out of country. They are a displaced people, and it has become their identify. Even if they become integrate into another country, they will keep telling stories of what they lost to themselves and their children and their grandchildren.

The Americans favoring the Israeli faction seems to want to ignore this. The Israelis must choose either a massive population change in their nation or wiping out a large native population. The passage of the basic law that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people is evidence that the Israelis both recognize this choice and have in fact already made this choice.

Wiping out Hezbollah, Hamas, etc… all meaningless in the long run. They’ll just be replaced by a new group with a new name. Even if you killed all the existing factions, down to the last man, the exiled populations will still be there. So long as the natives exist at all, the threat of a native attack is present.

She’s wrong, in one key aspect. The Israelis will prevail because they will likely do to the native Palestinians what the Americans did to the Cherokee or the Russians did to the Yakutsk. There will be no oppression if the oppressed no longer exist. Once the total number of Palestinians in Israel and around Israel fall below a certain number, the remainder will have no choice but to either kneel or die (much like the Cherokee or Yakutsk).

 

[ChloeTzang]

I don’t really see your point here. Estimates of the Myanmar civil war’s death toll is about 55k-80k. Estimates of the Sudan conflict (the one starting in 2023) range from 16k to 150k. The Manipur conflict is relatively light there, with only an estimated 225 dead, though there is still about 60k displaced.

The holy land of the abrahamic faiths means jack shit if you stop falling prey to the idea that those faiths have meaning. It’s just a bunch of morons on the other side of the planet who hate each other because they have different stories about what god is and who his favorite people are. The Israelis are just the latest group of morons to join in, and too many assholes in the US want to keep us in that shit as well.

Yep, and with all these regional conflicts, what are we expected do about and why should we even bother? If we sent in "peacekeepers" we'd just get attacked
by all sides and all that we would achieve would be to freeze whatever the conflict was. The only really practical solution would be to recolonize these third world shitholes and run them ourselves - and if we did that, what do you think would happen? We've have to kill one heck of a lot more to make it work.

Even China isn't ruthless enough to do a solution to those messes.

Same with Israel and the ragheads. Leave them to go ahead with it. None of our business, altho personally I'd rather civilization won in the war against the barbarians.

 

[Rebel5soul]

Yeah, she point out something most western folk pretend to not see… the native population hates Israel and is always present, both in and out of country. They are a displaced people, and it has become their identify. Even if they become integrate into another country, they will keep telling stories of what they lost to themselves and their children and their grandchildren.

The Americans favoring the Israeli faction seems to want to ignore this. The Israelis must choose either a massive population change in their nation or wiping out a large native population. The passage of the basic law that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people is evidence that the Israelis both recognize this choice and have in fact already made this choice.

Wiping out Hezbollah, Hamas, etc… all meaningless in the long run. They’ll just be replaced by a new group with a new name. Even if you killed all the existing factions, down to the last man, the exiled populations will still be there. So long as the natives exist at all, the threat of a native attack is present.

She’s wrong, in one key aspect. The Israelis will prevail because they will likely do to the native Palestinians what the Americans did to the Cherokee or the Russians did to the Yakutsk. There will be no oppression if the oppressed no longer exist. Once the total number of Palestinians in Israel and around Israel fall below a certain number, the remainder will have no choice but to either kneel or die (much like the Cherokee or Yakutsk).

Let's start with the unsubstantiated claim that the "native population" hates Israel. That demands a definition of WHICH native population.

The paragraphs I emboldened really do get to the meat of the matter. Nobody wants the so called "Palestinians." Not the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Saudi's, not even their sponsor and masters over in Tehran, the Iranians. Gaza will become an occupied territory never again to be allowed anything remotely resembling self-rule. Egypt will stamp out any signs of organization of the terrorists on their home turf as will the Jordanians. If Israel does a good enough job crippling Hezbollah the Northern Lebanese will gladly join in the eradication of the residue never to allow any such organization in their midst again.

Point being is that while your 'tribal' analogy does have some applicability to the situation you have to consider that there is more 'tribes' in the mix. The Comanche virtually exterminated the Lipan Apache and the Navajo came close to exterminating the Hopi.

 

[butters]

Palestinians, just like Israelis, have the right to their own sovereign country under their own rule and live freely without occupation or threats.

There's no reason that other countries should have to accept Palestinian refugees to live there just because Israel decides it doesn't want Palestine to exist. There's room for both nations. There has to be.

 

[CherryCupcake]

The native population of Palestine refers to the people who lived their, who were Jewish, Christian and mostly Muslim after the Jewish diaspora and and after almost a millennia of rule by the Ottoman Turks. They lived their and it is important to recognize that while the Jewish people have been victimized throughout Western history, they remain human and Jewish Terrorism was a fact late in under the English Mandate and after 1948, including the massacres of native Arab populations at Deir Yassin. Later Israeli Prime Minister Menachim Begin spoke of the massacre by the Irgun, a terrorist group he was a member of as being necessary to establish the Jewish character of the state of Israel.

The problem is that when Israel was founded people who were not Jewish already lived there. But where were they to go? Jerusalem is the center of their scriptures, the Temple at Temple Mount the holiest of Jewish sites. They wanted to go back to the land where David lived and ruled. They didn't want land they had no historical ties to. It might have been better if they'd gone somewhere else, but anywhere they went, there would already be people.

 

[Sexysally1234]

The native population of Palestine refers to the people who lived their, who were Jewish, Christian and mostly Muslim after the Jewish diaspora and and after almost a millennia of rule by the Ottoman Turks. They lived their and it is important to recognize that while the Jewish people have been victimized throughout Western history, they remain human and Jewish Terrorism was a fact late in under the English Mandate and after 1948, including the massacres of native Arab populations at Deir Yassin. Later Israeli Prime Minister Menachim Begin spoke of the massacre by the Irgun, a terrorist group he was a member of as being necessary to establish the Jewish character of the state of Israel.

The problem is that when Israel was founded people who were not Jewish already lived there. But where were they to go? Jerusalem is the center of their scriptures, the Temple at Temple Mount the holiest of Jewish sites. They wanted to go back to the land where David lived and ruled. They didn't want land they had no historical ties to. It might have been better if they'd gone somewhere else, but anywhere they went, there would already be people.

Viva Palestina

 

[Lazaran]

Palestinians, just like Israelis, have the right to their own soverign country under their own rule and live freely without occupation or threats.

There's no reason that other countries should have to accept Palestinian refugees to live there just because Israel decides it doesn't want Palestine to exist. There's room for both nations. There has to be.

Sorry, butters, but you are waaaaaaay off base here:

It is the Palestinians, etc, that don’t want Israel to exist; full stop.

Israel understands the Arab / Muslim strategy of boiling Israel like a frog through endless attacks (10/7, etc) and harassment (gray zone warfare):

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24219



Israel isn’t going out like a boiled frog.



It may even come down to Israel nuking Iran, etc.



I hope that the evil Arab / Muslim cabal get the message from the destruction of Gaza and what is happening in Lebanon, and that they abandon their evil strategy of trying to boil Israel like a frog before Israel exercises their full capabilities to defend themselves.

 

[DukeofPaducah]

Sorry, butters, but you are waaaaaaay off base here:

It is the Palestinians, etc, that don’t want Israel to exist; full stop.

Israel understands the Arab / Muslim strategy of boiling Israel like a frog through endless attacks (10/7, etc) and harassment (gray zone warfare):

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24219



Israel isn’t going out like a boiled frog.



It may even come down to Israel nuking Iran, etc.



I hope that the evil Arab / Muslim cabal get the message from the destruction of Gaza and what is happening in Lebanon, and that they abandon their evil strategy of trying to boil Israel like a frog before Israel exercises their full capabilities to defend themselves.

This exact scenario is why the US has two carrier groups parked off their coast and more troops headed into harm’s way.
These are ancient cultures and they have been locked in this struggle since Moses led the Tribes of Israel from bondage in Egypt. so many millennia ago.
Israel’s original name was Jacob. He was the son of Isaac, son of Abraham, son of Shem, who was one of the sons of Noah. Yup, captain of the famous Ark.
The Bible also said Noah lived to be 350 years old, so consider the source.

Ham, another of Noah’s sons was the progenitor of the peoples of Canaan, present day Israel and Palestine.
They are all related according to the Bible.
A total of 8 people survived the Flood. According to the Bible, that is.

Check out Hannah Montana

 

[Lazaran]

This exact scenario is why the US has two carrier groups parked off their coast and more troops headed into harm’s way.
These are ancient cultures and they have been locked in this struggle since Moses led the Tribes of Israel from bondage in Egypt. so many millennia ago.
Israel’s original name was Jacob. He was the son of Isaac, son of Abraham, son of Shem, who was one of the sons of Noah. Yup, captain of the famous Ark.
The Bible also said Noah lived to be 350 years old, so consider the source.

Ham, another of Noah’s sons was the progenitor of the peoples of Canaan, present day Israel and Palestine.
They are all related according to the Bible.
A total of 8 people survived the Flood. According to the Bible, that is.

Check out Hannah Montana

Is there a point or a position in there somewhere???

 

[coati]

Israel is low value land surrounded by better land. Maybe someday the Jewish diaspora will admit it's not worth so much fuss and move to Wisconsin.

My idea has always been to move Israel to Texas. Just give them the whole damned state.

 

[DukeofPaducah]

Is there a point or a position in there somewhere???

Just context and history. The root of the conflict.
I didn’t intend to annoy anyone

Israel (Jacob) had two wives and 12 sons. These became the leaders of the Tribes of Israel.
This is funny to you?

 

[Yarglenurp]

Let's start with the unsubstantiated claim that the "native population" hates Israel. That demands a definition of WHICH native population.

The paragraphs I emboldened really do get to the meat of the matter. Nobody wants the so called "Palestinians." Not the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Saudi's, not even their sponsor and masters over in Tehran, the Iranians. Gaza will become an occupied territory never again to be allowed anything remotely resembling self-rule. Egypt will stamp out any signs of organization of the terrorists on their home turf as will the Jordanians. If Israel does a good enough job crippling Hezbollah the Northern Lebanese will gladly join in the eradication of the residue never to allow any such organization in their midst again.

Point being is that while your 'tribal' analogy does have some applicability to the situation you have to consider that there is more 'tribes' in the mix. The Comanche virtually exterminated the Lipan Apache and the Navajo came close to exterminating the Hopi.

You’re a trump-worshipper. I don’t give a shit about anything you say, you only exist to weaken the US and threaten the safety of our nation. Go back to Russia, you traitorous piece of shit.

Fuck you completely. God bless America, he will throw in you to hell.

 

[Yarglenurp]

Israel is low value land surrounded by better land. Maybe someday the Jewish diaspora will admit it's not worth so much fuss and move to Wisconsin.

You understand that means they’d be displacing the native population there, right?

I’d much rather they focus on a place far away, than a place close to here. You want to see what happens when a majority Jewish group forms up, look up the East Ramapo School District.

Jewish fundamentalist are no different from any other religious fundamentalist… a xenophobic, ultra-conservative lot who seek to eradicate all ways of life that do not conform to their own rigid behavior set. They are just as dangerous and hostile to the average person as any other fundamentalist, no more or less.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You understand that means they’d be displacing the native population there, right?

I’d much rather they focus on a place far away, than a place close to here. You want to see what happens when a majority Jewish group forms up, look up the East Ramapo School District.

Jewish fundamentalist are no different from any other religious fundamentalist… a xenophobic, ultra-conservative lot who seek to eradicate all ways of life that do not conform to their own rigid behavior set. They are just as dangerous and hostile to the average person as any other fundamentalist, no more or less.

This is why Hamas and Hezbollah are so dangerous. They’re fundamentalist Islamic organizations committed to the eradication of Israel.

 

[DukeofPaducah]

This debate has devolved into the Chicken/Egg question. In this case, the Palestinian were here first.
They were called Philistines in the Bible.
Many of the early books in the OT describe conflict as Israel left Egypt in search of a homeland.
I’m halfway through the Book of Judges and the Tribes are smiting all around them with mixed success, but they spare no men, women or children.

The latest action I have heard is that the IDF is preparing for ground invasion in Lebanon.

What has become of negotiating a two-state solution? Working on a hostage release?
They’re not in Lebanon