Baking Bread...HELP!

[SweetErika]

I did a test-run of this special Ukrainian sweet holiday bread the other day. It turned out great flavor-wise, but the outside crust was burnt and it was a little dry inside. It might also be a little more dense than it should be, but I'm not sure about that.

My husband applied an egg wash, and baked it in a 350 degree oven for 45 minutes as per the recipe (I wasn't here). Upon looking at other recipes, I noticed 375-400 degrees for 30 minutes is more the norm, but I'm not sure if I should raise the temp. since this bread has a fair amount of sugar, eggs, and dried fruit in it.

Any bread bakers out there? I'd appreciate any tips on where we went wrong and suggestions for bread making in general!

 

[smoothdevil]

I did a test-run of this special Ukrainian sweet holiday bread the other day. It turned out great flavor-wise, but the outside crust was burnt and it was a little dry inside. It might also be a little more dense than it should be, but I'm not sure about that.

My husband applied an egg wash, and baked it in a 350 degree oven for 45 minutes as per the recipe (I wasn't here). Upon looking at other recipes, I noticed 375-400 degrees for 30 minutes is more the norm, but I'm not sure if I should raise the temp. since this bread has a fair amount of sugar, eggs, and dried fruit in it.

Any bread bakers out there? I'd appreciate any tips on where we went wrong and suggestions for bread making in general!

sugar has a tendency to carmelize under heat ... but the problem is that each oven has it's own heat zone ... and only by trial and error will you find the happy medium ... but a great source of info is epicurious.com (Gourmet magazine) ..

 

[SweetErika]

Re: Re: Baking Bread...HELP!

sugar has a tendency to carmelize under heat ... but the problem is that each oven has it's own heat zone ... and only by trial and error will you find the happy medium ... but a great source of info is epicurious.com (Gourmet magazine) ..

Yep, that's why I'm hesitant to raise the temperature. Our oven isn't great either...it cycles on and off a lot, which may be contributes to the burning. I'll check out epicurious.com and see if they have any tips for better results.

 

[zhukov1943]

If it was dry and a bit burnt on the outside, I don't think that using MORE heat would be the answer...

 

[EJFan]

I did a test-run of this special Ukrainian sweet holiday bread the other day. It turned out great flavor-wise, but the outside crust was burnt and it was a little dry inside. It might also be a little more dense than it should be, but I'm not sure about that.

My husband applied an egg wash, and baked it in a 350 degree oven for 45 minutes as per the recipe (I wasn't here). Upon looking at other recipes, I noticed 375-400 degrees for 30 minutes is more the norm, but I'm not sure if I should raise the temp. since this bread has a fair amount of sugar, eggs, and dried fruit in it.

Any bread bakers out there? I'd appreciate any tips on where we went wrong and suggestions for bread making in general!

i bake a LOT of bread (and lynxie's cookies ) and i understand what you're talking about. the fact that it's too dense tells me that maybe you kneaded it too much... if you work a yeast dough too hard it'll stiffen up on you. if the crust is burnt and the bread dry, try moving the rack down in your oven and/or covering it with some aluminum foil about halfway through baking... or once the crust is at the desired brownness. you may also want to check it about ten minutes sooner (with the old toothpick) to see if it's done. i have a bread recipe that says 30+ minutes but i have yet to have to bake it more than about 20.

hope that helps.

 

[SweetErika]

If it was dry and a bit burnt on the outside, I don't think that using MORE heat would be the answer...

I was thinking more heat for a shorter time would make it less dry, but that's why I'm asking!

I'm looking at recipes online, and there's a huge range of temps and times, from 325 for 1 hour to 400 for 30 minutes.

 

[SweetErika]

Re: Re: Baking Bread...HELP!

i bake a LOT of bread (and lynxie's cookies ) and i understand what you're talking about. the fact that it's too dense tells me that maybe you kneaded it too much... if you work a yeast dough too hard it'll stiffen up on you. if the crust is burnt and the bread dry, try moving the rack down in your oven and/or covering it with some aluminum foil about halfway through baking... or once the crust is at the desired brownness. you may also want to check it about ten minutes sooner (with the old toothpick) to see if it's done. i have a bread recipe that says 30+ minutes but i have yet to have to bake it more than about 20.

hope that helps.

Whoa! That helps a ton! I didn't know you could over-knead bread. Honestly, the density is the least of my problems since it tastes quite good once you cut off the burnt crust.

Just to clarify, you test the bread with a toothpick just like a cake, right? If it comes out clean, it's done?

I noticed several recipes called for covering it with foil after the desired brownness was reached, so burnt appears to be a common issue with this bread.

Another question: I let it rise until it was doubled, but that was only like an hour. I'm seeing 2 hours is the norm in the other recipes, but they also say "until doubled" and be careful about over-rising it. Is it usually 2 hours the first time and 30 minutes the second rise?

 

[bobsgirl]

When I bake bread, it usually only takes about an hour or ninety minutes for the dough to rise. 2 hours seems like too long to me. Using your fingertip, gently press into the dough a little. When the indentation stays, it's risen.

Mmmm, homemade bread... Erika, you've inspired me!

 

[SweetErika]

When I bake bread, it usually only takes about an hour or ninety minutes for the dough to rise. 2 hours seems like too long to me. Using your fingertip, gently press into the dough a little. When the indentation stays, it's risen.

Mmmm, homemade bread... Erika, you've inspired me!

I love making bread...very therapeutic. It'd be better if it turned out well though!

Thanks for the advice, the recipe doesn't call for it, but should I be using bread flour for this?

 

[bobsgirl]

Bread flour is the only kind of flour I buy, but regular all purpose flour should be fine. My bread machine instructions recommend bread flour, and I use my bread machine alot. I use bread flour for all my baking.

 

[Ezzy]

I would start by dropping the temperature by 25 degrees and cut the time by 10 minutes.

The other thing I would think of adding would be an open pan of water in the oven as you bake, this helps keep the humidity higher and I find it gives me better bread.

If you use the pan of water make sure you allow the bread time to cool on a wire rack, it takes a little longer to stabilize than without the extra water.

The other thing that gives you good consistancy is to double rise your bread, knocking back in between, then allowing to rise the second time before baking.

 

[SweetErika]

Bread flour is the only kind of flour I buy, but regular all purpose flour should be fine. My bread machine instructions recommend bread flour, and I use my bread machine alot. I use bread flour for all my baking.

Ok, I'll add that to the grocery list!

 

[SweetErika]

I would start by dropping the temperature by 25 degrees and cut the time by 10 minutes.

The other thing I would think of adding would be an open pan of water in the oven as you bake, this helps keep the humidity higher and I find it gives me better bread.

If you use the pan of water make sure you allow the bread time to cool on a wire rack, it takes a little longer to stabilize than without the extra water.

The other thing that gives you good consistancy is to double rise your bread, knocking back in between, then allowing to rise the second time before baking.

The pan sounds like a good idea. It won't make the crust chewy or anything, will it? This bread doesn't have much of a crust. I'm making Paska, by the way.

We kneaded it until shiny, smooth, and elastic, and let it rise until doubled (an hour to 90 minutes). Then, we punched it down and transferred it to the baking pans, and let it rise again, about another 30 minutes. Then we baked it. Is that the double rise you're talking about?

 

[Missingmeds]

Sweet Erika, I would definitely use bread flour because of the dried fruits. It is all I use to bake with.

 

[EJFan]

Re: Re: Re: Baking Bread...HELP!

Just to clarify, you test the bread with a toothpick just like a cake, right? If it comes out clean, it's done?

Another question: I let it rise until it was doubled, but that was only like an hour. I'm seeing 2 hours is the norm in the other recipes, but they also say "until doubled" and be careful about over-rising it. Is it usually 2 hours the first time and 30 minutes the second rise?

yes... the toothphick thing is just like you'd do with a cake. of course with the fruit in there you have to be careful not to break a cherry or somethin' (pun intended) or else you might get a false reading.

i've rarely had to raise dough more than an hour. it depends on your room temperature... the hotter it is the faster it rises (pun intended again). i usually do the first rise in the oven with just the heat from the pilot light and it's perfect... warm and draft free. the second rise, after you make your loaf, i'd just say cover it and put it in the warmest, draft free-est place you can find.

you can check to see if it's doubled by gently poking it with your first two fingers. if the dent stays and doesn't bounce back then it's fully risen. again, usually between 30 and 60 minutes depending on the room and whether you use regular or rapid-rise yeast.

 

[EJFan]

The pan sounds like a good idea. It won't make the crust chewy or anything, will it? This bread doesn't have much of a crust. I'm making Paska, by the way.

i personally don't recommend a pan of water for breads. you can get a chewy kind of texture with that method in some cases. it's great for things like cheesecakes and baked puddings.... but give it a shot, you might like the result. i think it's definitely worth a try at least.

 

[SweetErika]

If you'd indulge me one more question....what's the deal with freezing bread dough? Do you rise it twice and then freeze it (and then just pop it in the oven), or do you freeze after the first rise, rise again, then bake? If I'm going throught the breadmaking process, I'd like to make a larger batch and freeze some.


I've learned a ton...thank you all so much for your help and suggestions! I'll probably give it another go tomorrow, and I'll keep you posted on the results. Worse case scenario is we have to cut off the crust, which isn't all that horrible anyway.

 

[Dstorage]

Rise then freeze, so you thaw and pop it into the oven.

Now for the other baking, get a couple thermometers. First get an oven thermometer so you know what temp the oven is, otherwise you are just turning a knob which may or may not be approximate. For good bread use a meat thermometer, bread is cooked when it is 200 degrees on the inside. This does not change for the vast majority of conventional breads. Water added to the oven atmosphere will give you a more flakey crust, but should not really affect the inside of the bread, called the "crumb". Just keep baking at the suggested temp and pull the bread at 200.

 

[SweetErika]

Rise then freeze, so you thaw and pop it into the oven.

Now for the other baking, get a couple thermometers. First get an oven thermometer so you know what temp the oven is, otherwise you are just turning a knob which may or may not be approximate. For good bread use a meat thermometer, bread is cooked when it is 200 degrees on the inside. This does not change for the vast majority of conventional breads. Water added to the oven atmosphere will give you a more flakey crust, but should not really affect the inside of the bread, called the "crumb". Just keep baking at the suggested temp and pull the bread at 200.

It's all a big science experiment, isn't it? LOL Thanks for the advice (considering I knew none of this stuff before, it's a miracle the first batch was edible at all)!

 

[watergirl]

just bookmarking

I'm going to make pizza tonight - last time my crust turned out great, so I'm hoping for the same happy accident. I love to bake, & just wanted to bookmark this thread.

 

[SweetErika]

Re: just bookmarking

I'm going to make pizza tonight - last time my crust turned out great, so I'm hoping for the same happy accident. I love to bake, & just wanted to bookmark this thread.

I always cheat when it comes to pizza...premade crust or Jiffy makes a pretty good 10-minute rise crust. If I can get this bread to turn out, I might change my mind, though pizza's not at tough as a loaf of bread it seems.

 

[EJFan]

If you'd indulge me one more question....what's the deal with freezing bread dough? Do you rise it twice and then freeze it (and then just pop it in the oven), or do you freeze after the first rise, rise again, then bake?

it depends on the dough... but generally it's like Dstorage said. you can also freeze it after it's baked if you'd like. that's how we do it. i just baked up 25 pounds of flour into a few dozen loaves of various breads for the holidays.

now when you squeeze my belly, i giggle.

 

[EJFan]

Re: just bookmarking

I'm going to make pizza tonight - last time my crust turned out great, so I'm hoping for the same happy accident. I love to bake, & just wanted to bookmark this thread.

if you're making pizza dough... or italian or french bread... the water in the oven is a good thing (depending on the dough recipe and your taste) because it can add to the crustiness.

 

[Vancouverite]

More nude bakery tips, SweetErika?
I warned you about those mince pies, didn't I!
Now, where is a thread on the proper stockings to use for a Christmas pudding?

 

[watergirl]

Oh, yeah!

Pizza is pretty fool proof. I have my mom's recipe for the dough & for doctoring up the sauce on the back. Yum!