Arising from the Internet?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

America is fracturing between those who want government socialism, and those who want traditional American self-sufficiency and independence. Youre a poodle or a pit bull.

When the cops start beating protestors, the ball will open.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

I don't think the internet has anything to do with a rise in rudeness. It's possible the media shines more light on it now, but there has always been people who don't respect others, or themselves.

I agree with the earlier poster that remarked on witty comebacks. I think there is less of that. It's a shame too, most ignorant and classless people who tend to be crass in their insults are best put in their place by someone clever. The right twist on words, no profanity necessary (even though it can be fun) and most rude people are left speachless. IMO anyway.

On the West situation, I have to say, Beyonce's class far outshone the cocky jerk's audacity.

 

[trysail]

I hereby give thanks and praise that I have never heretofore heard of one Kanye West ( sic ? ).

Clearly, my efforts to insulate myself from the dreadful bilge that apparently represents popular culture in the U.S. have borne fruit.

I am working assiduously to accomplish the same level of awareness with respect to rap "music," "kollidge" football and basketball, along with professional football, baseball and basketball.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

I hereby give thanks and praise that I have never heretofore heard of one Kanye West ( sic ? ).

Clearly, my efforts to insulate myself from the dreadful bilge that apparently represents popular culture in the U.S. have borne fruit.

I am working assiduously to accomplish the same level of awareness with respect to rap "music," "kollidge" football and basketball, along with professional football, baseball and basketball.

I almost smiled when I saw hockey wasn't mentioned. Then I remembered the very public comments made last year by Sean Avery. After that I scratched my head and wondered why in the world I would think of hockey players being more polite then other proffesional sports players. Still trying to figure out what I was smoking

Maybe it's my warped Montreal Canadian outlook. Slashing isn't rude. It's just part of the game

 

[TxRad]

I almost smiled when I saw hockey wasn't mentioned. Then I remembered the very public comments made last year by Sean Avery. After that I scratched my head and wondered why in the world I would think of hockey players being more polite then other proffesional sports players. Still trying to figure out what I was smoking

Maybe it's my warped Montreal Canadian outlook. Slashing isn't rude. It's just part of the game

There's a world of difference between aggressive and rude. Especially when everyone is armed with razor sharp skates and long sticks.

 

[driphoney]

(And no one needs to read anything into my politics behind that last statement. I'd have been just as appalled if someone had heckled Bush, and just as ready to point it out if they'd been a liar when they did it.)

While we Americans are not used to and don't want British Parliament style heckling, and this Wilson thing has been carefully narrowed to focus on that specificially, this degeneration in respect for the office of the presidency didn't start here. I'll attach this link because it's easily found on youtube, but I'm sure there can be examples found for previous presidents back to LBJ, if not before.

Boo to the Chief

Tx, I agree with your point on lack of self-control. But I think it's maybe part of a larger context. We're a mobile society and spend very little time in our own communities anymore. We drive into our garages at night and in the morning load everyone up in our garages, pull out and drive off only to return that night and do the same thing all over again the next day. I've moved quite a bit and it's pretty much the same in all of suburbia. Currently, I only know FIVE neighbors names. Five, on a block with at least 40. We have no sense of community, of responsibilty, of connected-ness. My catty-corner neighbor died (can't recall his name), my first alert was 911 showing up, then 3 weeks later I asked my one informed neighbor what the deal was. He died early morning watering his back lawn and laid there all day until his wife found him after she got home from work. The other next door neighbor saw the water running and running from his backyard and never went to investigate!

I just tell this morbid story to point out how remote we all are from each other. Growing up in a tiny town in Ohio where generations of neighbors knew everything about everybody was so different. My family knew when the neighbors worked and were off, they knew who was ill, and who was alcoholic, who was odd and needed watching. Some neighbors drove you nuts, others you loved better than family, but you always knew what was up in your community.

Don't you think this plays a big part of SR's original question?

 

[SixtyMinuteMan]

While we Americans are not used to and don't want British Parliament style heckling, and this Wilson thing has been carefully narrowed to focus on that specificially, this degeneration in respect for the office of the presidency didn't start here. I'll attach this link because it's easily found on youtube, but I'm sure there can be examples found for previous presidents back to LBJ, if not before.

Yeah... that's not a joint session of congress and those aren't elected representatives booing. Apples and oranges, my friend. As I said, heckling a president in joint session is something new and ugly. There's a big difference in the respect owed by the average citizen, where boos can be a perfectly valid expression of emotion, and the respect owed by seated congresspeople when the President of the United States is a guest in their house.

My comparison stands. How would everyone have reacted if Pelosi or Feinstein had heckled Bush during a joint session?

 

[_Lynn_]

While we Americans are not used to and don't want British Parliament style heckling, and this Wilson thing has been carefully narrowed to focus on that specificially, this degeneration in respect for the office of the presidency didn't start here. I'll attach this link because it's easily found on youtube, but I'm sure there can be examples found for previous presidents back to LBJ, if not before.

Boo to the Chief

Tx, I agree with your point on lack of self-control. But I think it's maybe part of a larger context. We're a mobile society and spend very little time in our own communities anymore. We drive into our garages at night and in the morning load everyone up in our garages, pull out and drive off only to return that night and do the same thing all over again the next day. I've moved quite a bit and it's pretty much the same in all of suburbia. Currently, I only know FIVE neighbors names. Five, on a block with at least 40. We have no sense of community, of responsibilty, of connected-ness. My catty-corner neighbor died (can't recall his name), my first alert was 911 showing up, then 3 weeks later I asked my one informed neighbor what the deal was. He died early morning watering his back lawn and laid there all day until his wife found him after she got home from work. The other next door neighbor saw the water running and running from his backyard and never went to investigate!

I just tell this morbid story to point out how remote we all are from each other. Growing up in a tiny town in Ohio where generations of neighbors knew everything about everybody was so different. My family knew when the neighbors worked and were off, they knew who was ill, and who was alcoholic, who was odd and needed watching. Some neighbors drove you nuts, others you loved better than family, but you always knew what was up in your community.

Don't you think this plays a big part of SR's original question?

I've lived in this same apartment for three years. Out of over twenty buildings with four units each, I only know the first names of the couple living under me. Each morning I take a walk here in the complex. It's rare that anyone driving past will even nod. Most glare at me, as if I'm intruding on their space. (There are no sidewalks, and the complex is off the main road.) Where I grew up, neighbors looked out for each other. They checked on the elderly, and helped anyone in need. People smiled and talked. Not anymore.

Kids have little or no respect for adults, or for the property of others. Shootings over job losses, road rage, kids with guns at school, fights . . . tempers flare for the tiniest thing. The anonymity of the internet doesn't have much to do with it though, in my opinion.

 

[driphoney]

Yeah... that's not a joint session of congress and those aren't elected representatives booing. Apples and oranges, my friend. As I said, heckling a president in joint session is something new and ugly. There's a big difference in the respect owed by the average citizen, where boos can be a perfectly valid expression of emotion, and the respect owed by seated congresspeople when the President of the United States is a guest in their house.

My comparison stands. How would everyone have reacted if Pelosi or Feinstein had heckled Bush during a joint session?

Like I said, people are choosing to be narrow. I also said, it's obvious we do NOT want a British Parliamentary type system of heckling. I will keep my opinion that it's part of an overall degeneration of respect for the office. If Pelosi or Feinstein had heckled, it probably would have been bashed in the same way.

Anyway, this is as close to politics as I hope to ever get here on Lit, so I'm taking a giant step back off the subject. I like you, Six, way too much to go off the deep end on this difference of opinion. Wait . . . isn't this the real subject of this thread?

 

[driphoney]

I The anonymity of the internet doesn't have much to do with it though, in my opinion.

You don't think it might be part of the overall separation, distancing and ultimately lack of respect and responsibility? On here we're anonymous, and at home we're anonymous. I don't know, I'm just pondering . . .

 

[_Lynn_]

You don't think it might be part of the overall separation, distancing and ultimately lack of respect and responsibility? On here we're anonymous, and at home we're anonymous. I don't know, I'm just pondering . . .

So much began before the massive use of the internet, though. The anonymity of it isn't helping, that's for sure. But if someone is rude, short tempered, and lacking respect, I think they are going to be regardless how many hours they spend online. Then again, maybe I'm being far too idealistic too.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't know how computers and the Internet--and certainly cell phones--can't be part of distancing in society. How many of us have laughed at the joke of two people standing side by side and talking to each other on a cell phone--or texting each other? But we know its a truism and a "new thing" in the way people "relate" to each other. We are moving toward people isolated in individual pods and relating to each other only through electronics. I doubt we will get to this in a pure form, but we quite obviously are moving along that path.

And I think it's also a truism that we feel freer to be harsh with someone down a cable or in cyber space than face to face and within touching/swinging distance.

 

[DeeZire]

I'm with Stella. I blame Newt Gingrich, Fox News, and talk radio. Society morphs according to what it sees. When it sees TV talking heads and respected radio personalities acting like hateful jerks, it assumes it's okay to act like a hateful jerk. The other factors mentioned in this thread also contribute, but I think old Newt wins the grand prize.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think Newt was known all that much in Middle America. Could be wrong, though. Happily, I was out of the country during those years.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I'm with Stella. I blame Newt Gingrich, Fox News, and talk radio. Society morphs according to what it sees. When it sees TV talking heads and respected radio personalities acting like hateful jerks, it assumes it's okay to act like a hateful jerk. The other factors mentioned in this thread also contribute, but I think old Newt wins the grand prize.

You do know when you point a finger of blame at someone there are at least three pointed back at yourself.

Put the blame where it belongs "Political Correctness" and lack of parental supervision.

 

[Edward Teach]

I think some of it goes back to sports and Cassius Clay ( Muhammad Ali) in the sixties. He was the first athlete I remember boasting and really getting into an opponent's face--before then it was not usually tolerated.

I had a high school teammate who had a basketball scholarship withdrawn because he taunted an opponent--colleges didn't want kids with that kind of attitude.

On the political front, I think Rush Limbaugh made being nasty popular and then it degenerated into out and out lying. It is now commonplace and accepted behavior for politicians and political pundits to lie and be nasty.

It carries over to society. Look at the forwarded emails we all get. They are mean spirited and false, yet people forward them, knowing that they are false.

I also see more, not all but more, of this behavior coming from the Right. I think it originated there and is a byproduct of a personality type that is attracted to that philosophy and behavior.

And if you are some lamebrain humanoid who disagrees with me, then fuck you and the Yugo you rode in on.

 

[DeeZire]

I also see more, not all but more, of this behavior coming from the Right. I think it originated there and is a byproduct of a personality type that is attracted to that philosophy and behavior.

Very astute observation. It could get you shot, but I'm with you 100%.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Rude behavior in public isn't new. What is new is the lack of self control by many, many people. Some of the things I hear kids say to their parents and their elders would have gotten me and my generation a trip to the woodshed at the very least.

Today that doesn't happen so the younger generation has no respect for their elders or better yet, their betters. One day they will get a rude awakening.

Also the stress levels in almost all parts of life are up from what they were even twenty years ago. Road rage is just one example. too many people and to little space. Too many cars on highways not built to handle the load and people in a hurry to get nowhere. I used to be one of them until I realized that my cruise control was my best friend. No tickets, best fuel economy, and a lot less stress.

Just my humble opinion and some observations over the years.

I think Tex has got it. At one time, sassing your parents or a teacher or almost any other authority figure would have merited a slap in the face, and maybe even a switch or belt to the backside. Good sportsmanship was another thing. You never taunted an opponent you had just beaten; you just told him or them "Good game" or words to that effect.

I think McEnroe was part of it, but it was mostly the lack of teaching good manners by parents, and even encouraging kids to "question authority." This isn't always a bad thing, but usually the authority knows more about the situation than the person who is doing the questioning.

Personally, I try to remain polite on the forum. I can be pretty argumentative, but I never get personal. Some on this thread have already said things that I would not have.

 

[Tx Tall Tales]

Yeah... that's not a joint session of congress and those aren't elected representatives booing. Apples and oranges, my friend. As I said, heckling a president in joint session is something new and ugly. There's a big difference in the respect owed by the average citizen, where boos can be a perfectly valid expression of emotion, and the respect owed by seated congresspeople when the President of the United States is a guest in their house.

My comparison stands. How would everyone have reacted if Pelosi or Feinstein had heckled Bush during a joint session?

Like this? Bush Booed at State of the Union address

There's little doubt where the rudeness started. The Vietnam War. Whether you were for it or against it, it doesn't matter. That was the beginning. Do your homework.

 

[rgraham666]

And I will state once again that those who complain about 'political correctness' are most often complaining that it isn't their type of political correctness.

Which leads me to another reason to the rise of discourtesy in America; it's Manichean mindset.

For many Americans there is only good and evil. A person shouldn't be nice to evil.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB has KICK ME tattooed on his ass.

 

[xssve]

Nah, the current trend towards rudeness got started back in the Eighties, IMO, with GenX and slam poetry which morphed into rap, it was fresh after all that peace love and togetherness, but it's always been there, hell, congressmen used to beat each other with sticks and engage in duels - you should see a current session of Taiwanese congress.

Rudeness is an unfortunate human trait, Christianity is basically organized rudeness, and conservative politics has pretty much followed that lead.

It does tend to come to a head when stress levels rise, as somebody pointed out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You do know when you point a finger of blame at someone there are at least three pointed back at yourself.

yeah, well that's what's happening right here-- Newt, fox et al pointed a finger of blame at the liberals and now those fingers are being pointed back at them.

Put the blame where it belongs "Political Correctness" and lack of parental supervision.

Limbaugh wasn't well-supervised as a child, then, obviously!

Political correctedness is a request that group-oriented rudeness be curbed. You are blaming water on the fish, as usual.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Nah, the current trend towards rudeness got started back in the Eighties, IMO, with GenX and slam poetry which morphed into rap, it was fresh after all that peace love and togetherness, but it's always been there, hell, congressmen used to beat each other with sticks and engage in duels - you should see a current session of Taiwanese congress.

Rudeness is an unfortunate human trait, Christianity is basically organized rudeness, and conservative politics has pretty much followed that lead.

It does tend to come to a head when stress levels rise, as somebody pointed out.

It was before then. Back to the Sixties, when demonstrators learned that yelling and hollering and being generally obnoxious could get positive results. That was a few years before McEnroe and Ilie Nastase of Romania showed how effective boorishness could be.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I'm sorry, but I cannot equate what happened at the MTV Awards with the interuption at Obama's speech in Congress.

The MTV Awards was a put up job with a poorly educated "rap muscian" making an ass out of himself to flaunt failing record sales and career.

What happened in Congress was a political statement which, the following day was, in fact, given creedance by the White House itself.

I see them as two entirely different things.