Are all women schizophrenic?

[Young Knave]

Are (most) women shizophrenic?

I know I'm going to get bashed for this question, but I have to ask. After getting to know quite a few gals, I've come to suspect this is true, at least for some of yous. One day you're good Christian girls, the next you can be up for anything. It's all very confusing.

[Edited by Young Knave on 10-21-2000 at 07:45 PM]

 

[Stormystarr]

No we're not

don't all men want us to be whores at some point?
If we don't give it up we're 'frigid'
and if we want it we're whores.

 

[R Nitelight]

Only if you're lucky.

 

[Young Knave]

That's a good point.

The reason I'm asking is that I've gone to Catholic school and being something of a heathen had arguements with these girls about biblical matters and such. These girls seem quite devout, but then they can turn around and act in shall we say a provacative manner. So maybe I generalize too much. But you are right, women get very mixed messages from our culture, and then there is the matter of their own desires and drives.

 

[Young Knave]

I should clarify myself.

I don't think if a woman turns a guy down she is necessarily frigid. Perhaps they just aren't interested. I'm talking about the ones who act appalled at the deeds of others, talk about how you shouldn't do this or that, it has to be love,this and that that and that is wrong, etc. Then they can turn around and suddenly they are wild, irreverant, naughty.

 

[Stormystarr]

They're called hypocrites.
BTW Young, are you as huge a fan of MM as I am?

 

[Pyper]

well, yeah...

Well, okay I guess you could call religious girls hypocrites if they want to be "devout" and horny at the same time, or you could call it not being able to resist biology.

I swear, Christianity is the most twisted religion of all time, trying to deny a natural part of what it is to be a human, which is sexuality. Just think, these messages have been pounded into people's heads for two thousand years...kind of hard to overcome that, don't you think? So in a polite rebuttal to Stormy, I would say, no these girls aren't hypocrites, they're just confused, and who wouldn't be? *grumbles about religion and society in general*

That's why I'm an atheist.

 

[#1derfulGuy]

I have no complaints. Some of my greatest lovers were Christian women. I even had one who moaned as loud as she prayed. Come to think of it, she shouted out His name alot too. Hell, now I'm confused. Was she praying or having an orgasm?..........Aw well.

 

[Jester]

Just wondering, but does that mean that you think that women should act a given way and not deviate from that manner?

Everybody has many different personality aspects clustered inisde of them. Maybe it's just that women are more comfortable letting them out than men.

 

[Whispersecret]

I wasn't brought up religious, so...

Are religion and sex mutally exclusive? I wasn't under the impression that they were. Why can't a woman who believes in God enjoy sex? I think that in these modern times we're a far cry from the Puritans.

The way I see it, a woman who can discuss biblical passages yet shows a healthy interest in the opposite sex is not a hypocrite. Her behavior may be surprising to you, but certainly doesn't indicate any contradictory beliefs.

Also, I don't think Christianity is all about denying sexuality. However, like I said, I wasn't raised Christian, so I can only go by what I've observed.

I know an Anglican minister who told me the reason why he veered away from Roman Catholicism was the celibacy aspect. In the Anglican church he is allowed to marry, and he said quite frankly to me, "I love having sex with my wife." If the minister can enjoy it without sinning, then the woman should too.

 

[Guest]

Oh, but one aspect you aren't considering, is that girls in my days of growing up were TAUGHT we weren't supposed to enjoy sex, that we SHOULDN'T let a boy touch our bodies. I was raised in a small town in the midwest right smack in the middle of the bible belt. It wasn't taught to us in the church, it was taught to us IN SCHOOL. We girls were taken aside from the boys, and shown all kinds of garbage films about the sins of sex.

I remember a female teacher telling us during one of these sessions in Junior High that we should NEVER let a boy touch our breasts. It would be a terrible sin, and could lead to all kinds of nasty things, as they went on to portray films with people that had vd. Aids wasn't known about then. This stuff was pounded into our heads year after year, beginning about 5th grade. Nothing was said about "safe sex" only "sex is bad".

I'd been married for two years and had my child before I had my first orgasm. They sure didn't teach me about THAT in school.

It's mostly about society's attitudes, and the christian attitudes certainly flavoured that where I came from.

 

[Closet Desire]

Spot on...

The Church, and I do mean the original concept of the Catholics and the Church of England (invented so a King could get a divorce), set woman aside as the keeper of morality and introduced a set of rules so contradictory that it's no wonder women today are many times more likely than men to be diagnosed with depression and treated with Prosac. There's no escape unless you cast off the chains and tell everyone who objects to piss off.

My partner authored a book on this subject and, sadly, have to say it reflects much of her own personal experience. The gist is that as a woman follows the rules, serving her husband, her children, her parents, etc, she gradually becomes invisible to others. By the time she hits say 35 she is either pissed off beyond expression or too resigned to give a damn anymore. Incidentally, neither of our families talk to us now...we broke too many rules and revealed too many family "myths" about what a woman is supposed to be. My wife...she is very outspoken...an endearing trait to me!

Just last night, as we watched a show about sex, she commented that women can be called sluts, bitches, and so forth, but "what," she asked, "is the equivalent for a man?" I'm at a loss here...a little help?

I rather suspect that men from centuries back were terrified of women. They have immense capacity for sensuality and easily the fiercer passions of the two sexes. What better way to control them than to take away their desires, elevate them to the status of some sort of holy grail, and then tell them they should be grateful for the respect they are given.

Good book on this by Anne Dickson, The Mirror Within, that'll get your blood boiling! Another really excellent read is Promiscuities by Naomi Wolf. Moon Wolf will probably read this one and say "been there, done that, never again!" Funny thing about Promiscuities...over here they published it with a woman's silouette and a nipple showing (ohmygod...can they do that?) and, shudder-shudder, hairy pits! The American cover had a teenage girl smoking. wow.

So to conclude my morning's rant I share the words of a woman friend of mine who's made it big...really big...as a corporate attorney in a large city. Stunningly attractive even fifteen years after we became friends, she was on her way to a board meeting when one of the men commented to her that he could see her bra straps under her silk blouse (Americans!) She turned abruptly to him and said "Yes, I'm a mammal, I have breasts, pubic hair, and I can nurse my young!" His air apparently went out in one whoosh. I think he's the same guy in her firm who lamented that they had let Jews into the practice of law and now they were having to let women in too.

Where do these people come from?

 

[Nicole]

Are all women schizophrenic?

Going wholey and solely off the title of this thread, I would say YES, well at least I know I am

 

[Closet Desire]

ahhh yes....

The old "Hello, I'm schizophrenic...and so am I?"

 

[Skitten]

I would have to agree with whispersecret on this one, why is it ok for men and we are told otherwise. Especially by men if we are "Quote" good girls we are frigid and no fun. On the other hand if we enjoy having sex, like men do we are known as sluts.

Reason being because it is still a man's world and they make the rules up. And it is not fair to the women out there who do enjoy sex with their husband's or their significant others. I was raised as a Roman Catholic too.
and it is a double standard and probally always will be. Being a Christian means you believe and I don't feel that you should not enjoy life. Be yourself and enjoy being with the one you love, and still believe there is nothing wrong with that. It is society judgement and we are always taught not to judge others and that is what I try to practice. No one is perfect and we all have done things that we are not proud of. The fact that we learn from them is what is important.

Everyone has their own views on women and men's issue, if you feel good about yourself, it should not be an problem the fact that you enjoy sex is your business. If men don't like the way you act, then maybe it is their problem. I feel that I am with my husband and I am a good person and I honor my religion as well as honoring my husband and my family. Be true to yourself and don't be a hypocriate.

 

[teresafannin]

The question I got in major trouble for asking when I was in junior high: "If girls are not supposed to have sex before marriage, but it is okay for guys to have experience, who are the guys experiencing sex with?" My health teacher about freaked out & I got sent to the principal's office. Thank goodness I had a mom who grew up with 14 brothers & sisters, lived on a farm & taught us that sex is a part of life. She gave us good, common sense advice.

In answer to the schizophrenia question, just about everyone I know is schizo to some degree. I think women just let it out more sometimes.

 

[Guest]

Re: ahhh yes....

The old "Hello, I'm schizophrenic...and so am I?"

hehe, to be honest, I think it would be closer to multiple personalities, since schizophrenia is a real chemical imbalance in the brain. We all have several aspects in our personalities, and sometimes one aspect is stronger than another, giving the illusion of a different personality.

Sometimes I can be very quiet and reserved, and sometimes I'm very outspoken and will jump into the middle of a conversation. All depends on what mood I'm in.

 

[Closet Desire]

sensitive issues

Well, as MW will appreciate from my email I seldom make "crazy" jokes...for me and my partner it is pretty serious business. Still, there are some classics.

As for the normal multiple personalities MoonWolf mentions...Billy Joel might have said it best in "The Stranger". Goes a little like this...

The Stranger
“…we all have a face that we hide away forever and we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone. Some are satin some are steel; some are silk and some are leather; they’re the faces of the stranger, but we love to try them on…Why were you so surprised that you never saw the stranger? Did you ever let your lover see the stranger in yourself?”
Billy Joel, The Stranger

You may not like his music, but he hit the nail on the head!

 

[Latina]

I don't think it's schizoid to have different parts to your personality, it's called being a well-rounded person. The straight-laced business-woman. The mom. The sex-crazed and loving wife. Makes you a more interesting person than just being ONE of those, 100% of the time.

As for the religious aspect, women not liking sex was a way for church elders to control women. Christianity has always been about imposing the will of a few men on the whole world, and sex was one of the things they had to put down to gain that control. If a woman was sexually active, she was accused of being a witch and tossed in a lake. If she drowned and died, she was innocent, if she lived she was a witch and was buned to death at the stake. Moral: if you show ANY interest in sex, you WILL be murdered. A few centuries of that drummed the message home to ALL women! Now religious women have those whole dilemma of centuries of this tradition of control vs. the new sexual liberation that science has brought us.

-- Latina

 

[Naked Hunny]

Well if we are schizo like you say its the mans fault. You expect us to be the good little girl that your mommy likes during the day and a whore in your bed at night!!

 

[Closet Desire]

It's more insidious than you think...

Prior to the growth of the Church in England, women held esteemed positions in the small, isolated cultures of the villages as healers, midwives, and arbitrators of disagreements. In addition to the church there was a growing movement in science and quasi medicine which was, of course, dominated by men. Moving this forward meant displacing the women from their traditional roles.

According to what I've studied here in England there was a tremendous collision between the centuries old pagan traditions and the new "science" of the church and reasoned logic. Women were displaced, often accused of being witches, and many being tortured or executed as a result. It generally depended more on the local justice as to whether or not a woman would be killed. As far as the witch hunts (which were far more active in Scotland), there is the classic Malleus Malificarum which describes how to identify witches and how to...ahem...get a confession out of them. Being drowned was a kinder test. What I'm leading up to is the sex bit...it was feared that women were weaker and would succumb to the temptations of having sex with the devil. The MM has some descriptions of women "fornicating" with the devil in the fields, but the descriptions here and elsewhere have to be humourous as well because...get this...the women were seen in the throes of orgasm, but the devil was nowhere to be seen (presumably he was a shape shifter)! The women were, of course, masturbating!

At any rate, much of this shaped the legal system in England which made even Puritan America look liberal. Until the late 1800's women's property become that of their husband, if the woman earned money (writing a book say) the husband was entitled to it, if the husband died, and women were not allowed to inherit anything. Men were allowed to beat their wives as long as the stick was no thicker than his thumb. In fact, women were not even allowed university educations in the UK until much later in the 20th century (I'd have to look up the actual dates) and then they were often allowed to study, sit the exams, and pass, but not be awarded the degree.

About the schizoid and schizophrenia topic that started this. I offer the following from my partner (psycholgist). Schizoid is a personality "tendency" while Schizophrenia is a disorder caused, in general consensus, by a chemical imbalance in the brain. There is a theory that Schizophrenia is not a single disorder, but the result of a combination of less understood disorders. As already pointed out you wouldn't classify any of this except in an individual where it becomes an issue affecting relationship or day-to-day life. (Isn't she lovely?...and handy to have around?)

Closet Desire

 

[Guest]

A few centuries of that drummed the message home to ALL women! Now religious women have those whole dilemma of centuries of this tradition of control vs. the new sexual liberation that science has brought us.

-- Latina

You are right on, Latina. Centuries of being damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

"It was a time when parents who abused their children were simply called "strict," when the spiritual lacerations of profoundly exploited women were referred to as "nervous breakdowns," when girls who were tightly girdled, tightly reined, and tightly muzzled were called "nice," and those other females who managed to slip the collar for a moment or two of life were branded "bad."

- quote from "Women Who Run With the Wolves" by Clarissa Pinkola Estès.

 

[Closet Desire]

My kind of woman...

One of my favourite books although everytime I hear the title now I think of a scene in the movie "Foxfire" (Angelina Jolie) where a group of girls has just beaten the crap out of an abusive teacher. Yep, they're in trouble. The principal looks sternly at them and say is this some feminist thing...are you "girls who run with foxes?" Of course, they all snicker. Great movie by the way. Brilliant. Own a copy here. Fits right in with this discussion too by the way.

Okay...okay...I'm shuttin' up.

 

[Guest]

Re: It's more insidious than you think...

(Isn't she lovely?...and handy to have around?)

Closet Desire

Your wife sounds like an absolute jewell. I like her and don't know her except through what you've said about her on this board...

- Moon

 

[Guest]

Re: My kind of woman...

One of my favourite books although everytime I hear the title now I think of a scene in the movie "Foxfire" (Angelina Jolie) where a group of girls has just beaten the crap out of an abusive teacher.

Never seen it.....or heard of it. Don't have a TV, so don't rent movies for it.....

By the way, I love your posts. So much information you have to share. Don't shut up!

- Moon