Are all endorphin highs created equal?

[KoPilot]

So I got a tattoo this week; my first one. (Yay go me.) It hurt, but was far from unbearable. The thing was, it only took about 15 minutes but I was nauseous when I was done, could barely think straight, and was slurring my speech. Far from the experiences of others, where they're already thinking about their next one as they walk out of the studio. The only cohesive thought I could get together as I left was "I don't want to do that again for a while."

S and I have been doing a lot more pain and sensation play the last couple times we've seen each other, and those endorphin highs leaving me feeling really good. Unmistakably good. Granted, it's not the same level of sustained pain as getting inked, but it's enough to have put me near subspace a few times.

I'm thinking that my unfavorable tat experience could be chalked up to maybe one of two things (or maybe both):

1. I was trying to let myself slip into subspace during the session, but because I was nervous, the artist and my mom kept trying to make conversation to "take my mind off it". Unfortunately, I generally endure non-excruciating pain better when I can focus/meditate/zen out on it. So every time I tried to answer, it felt like it took a lot of work to do so, giving me this sort of mental blueballs.

2. I was unknowingly having a panic attack as I was trying to simultaneously process the surge in endorphins, all while needing to sit perfectly still and figure out how to answer dumb questions like "Where do you work?".

There's also a third scenario in which that intense of a high is going to make me feel sick regardless.

Anyone have any ideas on this? It's kind of important as it's going to help me in how I approach pain play in the future, and also helping me in my anti-anxiety work I'm doing right now with the therapist. Thanks :X

 

[desertslave]

Biochemically, I'm betting it's all the same, but I think expectations and perceptions can make a world of difference.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who has been extremely endorphin-deprived for too damn long.

Anyway, I could get all endorphin-happy from a long swim (the last quarter mile of a mile swim was generally kind of fuzzy), but it was generally more of a warm-blanket almost-kinda-drunk feeling. Very pleasant but mostly functional within a short timeframe.

Endorphins from pain just make me stupid and tuned-out.

Endorphins from play, the really lovely kind, made me strung out, happy smiles, fairly disconnected from the world and just plain delighted. I miss this, a LOT.

 

[graceanne]

I know that some types of pain send me almost straight into a good endorphin high and some don't. I like things like belts and I really don't like things that give a sharper pain, like anything with a tail. My guess would be that needle pain is not the kind of pain that'll give you a good subspace.

 

[BiBunny]

Biochemically, I'm betting it's all the same, but I think expectations and perceptions can make a world of difference.

This.

I rode horses for many years, and the one constant of riding is that if you do it long enough, you'll fall off. And if you keep riding, you'll fall off again...and again...and again. I rode competitively for about 15 years, so you name it and I've probably busted it up somewhere along the way.

And lemme tell you, what happens to you when sexual endorphins hit and when shock endorphins hit are two completely different things. The sexy-time ones are all happy and fuzzy, and the oh-God-I-might-be-dying ones are all faint-y and nauseating.

 

[MissMaidenMinx]

May I ask where the tattoo was placed?

My first tattoo is on the small of my back and has had about 7 hours work done on it. The first hour was the outline done by a bad tattooist and it left me feeling the same way you have described. As the needle was going over my spine or over my ribs was the worst.
When I had that same tattoo coloured by the same tattooist it was a bit better but not much. When I had my wrist and hand done, that was pleasant. And having the first tattoo reworked by a different tattooist was much better even if it did leave me sobbing in my husbands arms.

Having said all that, I definitely love my pain and there isn't much that makes me squeamish. I don't know if I said anything useful though.

 

[KoPilot]

Ok so fear and endorphins are a really bad mix. Got it. Thanks guys. I guess it really is that simple. :B

 

[Netzach]

I think that endorphins without the right mental framework = fight or flight

and that endorphins plus a mental framework where you know you're OK (this is the person I married, no pain no gain while working out, something like that) = pleasure?


for what it's worth I hated every passing second of getting inked. Consciously I knew I'd be ok, but the more it went on the more I wanted to jump up and leave.

 

[KoPilot]

I think that endorphins without the right mental framework = fight or flight

My reaction when faced with panic is actually to "freeze". :\

and that endorphins plus a mental framework where you know you're OK (this is the person I married, no pain no gain while working out, something like that) = pleasure?

Yeah, "trying to relax" and "relaxing" are worlds apart.

for what it's worth I hated every passing second of getting inked. Consciously I knew I'd be ok, but the more it went on the more I wanted to jump up and leave.

Ugh okay I'm glad someone else knows what I'm talking about haha. Again, wasn't the pain, but something else distinctly different that was fucking me up badly and got worse as it went on. That's what it was like for you? (Sorry it's just the only "bad" stories I've read was from people getting nauseous afterwards.)

Whatever it was made me so tired I wanted to lie in bed for the rest of the day.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Ok so fear and endorphins are a really bad mix. Got it. Thanks guys. I guess it really is that simple. :B

My english isn't really good enough for this so I hope this will be comprehensible.

Endorphins in large and sudden amounts can be too much for the body, much like an overdose.
Fear and shock will mean that you get a lot of adrenaline on top of that and sometimes symptoms from the nervous system that makes your bloodpressure drop(same thing that makes people faint from shock).

Smalltalk on top of that sounds really bad.

 

[sheablue]

My english isn't really good enough for this so I hope this will be comprehensible.

Endorphins in large and sudden amounts can be too much for the body, much like an overdose.
Fear and shock will mean that you get a lot of adrenaline on top of that and sometimes symptoms from the nervous system that makes your bloodpressure drop(same thing that makes people faint from shock).

Smalltalk on top of that sounds really bad.

As someone who faints easily and unexpectedly ... I think IrisAlthea is right on about this. I think sometimes your body can have a physical reaction that you're not even noticing mentally at the time. And then it catches up with you.

I have a few tattoos, and most of them were no problem, I even liked the pain sensation. But then I got one in a much more sensitive spot, and it was not fun, and I felt weak and oogy the rest of the day, even though the pain mostly stopped when the session was over.

 

[Shankara20]

My reaction when faced with panic is actually to "freeze"

Research is now being discussed that show 4 threat responses.

Going from "freeze" to "flight" to "fight" to "Tonic Immobility" (TI).

The emerging material on TI is interesting for those of us working with sexual assault victims.

.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

I understand what you say about the tatt. My first hurt a lot, it was not nice and my body went into shock. But I went on to have more. Certain areas hurt more, it is down to your physiology, where your nerves lay in greater density.
Some areas are worse than others, spine, lower back, ribs, feet. These areas are ouchy.
I have been tattooed for 3 hours without break on my thigh and felt fine throughout the process. I find it takes around 15 mins for the endorphins to kick in, and spend the initial bit of time focussing on my breathing and telling myself to accept the pain. It works!

 

[eastern sun]

Anyone have any ideas on this? It's kind of important as it's going to help me in how I approach pain play in the future, and also helping me in my anti-anxiety work I'm doing right now with the therapist. Thanks :X

I find that the distraction of "small-talk" during that kind of painful or frightening endorphin-releasing experience is extremely difficult. People think they're helping, but for me it is much easier to cope with pain and fear if I focus directly on it and have the opportunity to process that I'm not actually being "killed" or "injured." Then - without the emotional, mental, and physical resistance my fear creates - the pain transforms into "sensation" and (if not pleasurable) can more easily be tolerated.

 

[KoPilot]

My english isn't really good enough for this so I hope this will be comprehensible.

Endorphins in large and sudden amounts can be too much for the body, much like an overdose.
Fear and shock will mean that you get a lot of adrenaline on top of that and sometimes symptoms from the nervous system that makes your bloodpressure drop(same thing that makes people faint from shock).

Smalltalk on top of that sounds really bad.

Good to know, thanks. I'll keep this sort of thing in mind. :s

 

[KoPilot]

Research is now being discussed that show 4 threat responses.

Going from "freeze" to "flight" to "fight" to "Tonic Immobility" (TI).

The emerging material on TI is interesting for those of us working with sexual assault victims.

.

Oh wow, I'll look this up. Sounds really interesting and is probably something that can help me. Thanks!

 

[KoPilot]

I understand what you say about the tatt. My first hurt a lot, it was not nice and my body went into shock. But I went on to have more. Certain areas hurt more, it is down to your physiology, where your nerves lay in greater density.
Some areas are worse than others, spine, lower back, ribs, feet. These areas are ouchy.
I have been tattooed for 3 hours without break on my thigh and felt fine throughout the process. I find it takes around 15 mins for the endorphins to kick in, and spend the initial bit of time focussing on my breathing and telling myself to accept the pain. It works!

Yeah I got mine on the wrist; I've both heard that it's about as sensitive a spot can get without being on top of bone, and at the same time I've heard that it's one of the more painless spots. So aside from the feeling of the needle itself (and the sound; sounds like that make me panic) I still have no idea about "easier" vs "harder" spots. Good thing my next possible one was planned for the upper arm?

And wow 15 minutes, mine hit me less than 5 minutes in. But again, that's probably because I was already pumped full of fight/flight chemicals.

 

[KoPilot]

I find that the distraction of "small-talk" during that kind of painful or frightening endorphin-releasing experience is extremely difficult. People think they're helping, but for me it is much easier to cope with pain and fear if I focus directly on it and have the opportunity to process that I'm not actually being "killed" or "injured." Then - without the emotional, mental, and physical resistance my fear creates - the pain transforms into "sensation" and (if not pleasurable) can more easily be tolerated.

Thanks, ES. I suspected I might be able to relate to how you process pain~

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

Yeah I got mine on the wrist; I've both heard that it's about as sensitive a spot can get without being on top of bone, and at the same time I've heard that it's one of the more painless spots. So aside from the feeling of the needle itself (and the sound; sounds like that make me panic) I still have no idea about "easier" vs "harder" spots. Good thing my next possible one was planned for the upper arm?

And wow 15 minutes, mine hit me less than 5 minutes in. But again, that's probably because I was already pumped full of fight/flight chemicals.

I have one on my inner wrist, that was kind of nice ouchy, there was only the tiniest of areas where a nerve was being worked over and I jumped a little bit. I have a lot of ink now and have never felt pain like the first time, but I have learned to eat and drink well before hand to maintain blood sugar levels.
I think the endorphines seem to kick in quite slowly for me, its the same being spanked or flogged, initially it is not nice even if I am in the right mental place, but after 10 or so mins it's all good.

 

[knot_sweet]

Yeah I got mine on the wrist; I've both heard that it's about as sensitive a spot can get without being on top of bone, and at the same time I've heard that it's one of the more painless spots. So aside from the feeling of the needle itself (and the sound; sounds like that make me panic) I still have no idea about "easier" vs "harder" spots. Good thing my next possible one was planned for the upper arm?

And wow 15 minutes, mine hit me less than 5 minutes in. But again, that's probably because I was already pumped full of fight/flight chemicals.

What you said about the sound making you panicy, have you had bad experiences with things making noise like that in the past?...if so, you were already stressed before the pain started. Maybe your body being in bad fear mode, then dealing with unfamiliar pain on top overloaded your adrenal glands in a bad way.

I've seen guys puke after getting an adrenaline shot, so your nausea may have been along the same lines.

Maybe next time try wearing head phones so you can block out the sound, thus reducing the amount of bad fear adrenaline coursing through your body.

Coupled with knowing how the pain feels and being able to process it as sensation instead of just pain (as eastern sun points out) will probably make the next one a lot less traumatic.

From personal experience, deep damage pain (tearing ligaments), even if I can't feel it, makes me throw up as my body floods itself with chemicals. It might not feel bad, but it's my body's way of telling me something is wrong. This might be one of those types of pain your body is never going to like.

I'm sorry you had to go through something that was very unpleasant.

 

[KoPilot]

I have one on my inner wrist, that was kind of nice ouchy, there was only the tiniest of areas where a nerve was being worked over and I jumped a little bit. I have a lot of ink now and have never felt pain like the first time, but I have learned to eat and drink well before hand to maintain blood sugar levels.
I think the endorphines seem to kick in quite slowly for me, its the same being spanked or flogged, initially it is not nice even if I am in the right mental place, but after 10 or so mins it's all good.

Is it possible to eat -too much- beforehand, lol? I had a huge lunch before and I wasn't sure if I was going to go in to talk to the guy or just do it. Maybe that contributed too.

SO MANY FACTORS

But seriously I'm learning a lot from your responses, thanks everyone.

 

[KoPilot]

What you said about the sound making you panicy, have you had bad experiences with things making noise like that in the past?...if so, you were already stressed before the pain started. Maybe your body being in bad fear mode, then dealing with unfamiliar pain on top overloaded your adrenal glands in a bad way.

I've seen guys puke after getting an adrenaline shot, so your nausea may have been along the same lines.

Maybe next time try wearing head phones so you can block out the sound, thus reducing the amount of bad fear adrenaline coursing through your body.

Coupled with knowing how the pain feels and being able to process it as sensation instead of just pain (as eastern sun points out) will probably make the next one a lot less traumatic.

From personal experience, deep damage pain (tearing ligaments), even if I can't feel it, makes me throw up as my body floods itself with chemicals. It might not feel bad, but it's my body's way of telling me something is wrong. This might be one of those types of pain your body is never going to like.

I'm sorry you had to go through something that was very unpleasant.

There was another thread here from a couple weeks back that made me wonder if I might have a sensory processing disorder because I have so many issues with sounds/noise, have my whole life, but my therapist says that the major uptick in my sensitivity to it in the past few years is likely due to a sort of PTSD being fed by several different traumatic experiences. So I knew that it was going to be a source of freak-out for me, but I bit the bullet because I wanted to see if I could use the experience as a point of progress. That's a tentative yes?

But yeah, I had wadded up paper towels stuffed in my ears (music would have given me a full-blown attack; I tried that with an MRI machine and I came out of the thing in tears). Speaking of the MRI-- deep/extreme pain has never made me nauseous, but I've always been very calm and collected when it came to my own injuries/medical conditions.

And thanks~

 

[Netzach]

My reaction when faced with panic is actually to "freeze". :\



Yeah, "trying to relax" and "relaxing" are worlds apart.



Ugh okay I'm glad someone else knows what I'm talking about haha. Again, wasn't the pain, but something else distinctly different that was fucking me up badly and got worse as it went on. That's what it was like for you? (Sorry it's just the only "bad" stories I've read was from people getting nauseous afterwards.)

Whatever it was made me so tired I wanted to lie in bed for the rest of the day.

Pretty much identical to that, only I don't think it was a triggering kind of thing - I think the environment was a little stressful, I know the guy went way too deep in retrospect (looks great though) and it was over the spine for whatever that's worth. Superficial sting and me - unless I feel very in-control - are bad bad juju.

But yes, after it was over I made everyone laugh because I wanted hot tea not a shot. I slept like the dead.