Anti-Zionism is the same as Anti-Semitism

[someoneyouknow]

And non Jews have full rights in Israel and have more freedom in any Arab country.

False. If that were true a Palestinian would be able to buy property in and around Jerusalem. But they can't.

and anti-semitism is recongized as prejudice against Jews

No, it's not. It's a dog whistle used by Jews against anyone who says anything remotely against Israel.

Don't like Israel's apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!

Don't want to sell your products in Israel? ANTI-SEMITE!!

Encourage divestment and boycott of Israel for its apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!

You will note not one of the above says anything about hating Jews or wanting harm done to them. But simply the act of disagreeing with anything Israel does or says will get one labeled an anti-semite.

and to other poster The Nazis also claimed to be a political party

Because they were. Their official name was the National Socialist German Worker's Party. What's the problem with that?

It's not like a religion trying to pass itself off as a race when anyone can become part of that religion.

They are both war criminals

Yes, Israel elected at least one terrorist as their leader. You remember Yitzhak Shamir, the guy who bombed civilians at the Kind David Hotel and shot up Palestinians.

 

[Dazzle1]

False. If that were true a Palestinian would be able to buy property in and around Jerusalem. But they can't.

(Palestinians are not Israelies they are Jordanians and Egyptianbs, Arab Israelies have full rights)

No, it's not. It's a dog whistle used by Jews against anyone who says anything remotely against Israel.

Don't like Israel's apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!(there is no aparthied in Israel)

Don't want to sell your products in Israel? ANTI-SEMITE!! (

Encourage divestment and boycott of Israel for its apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!BDS is part of the terrorist movement this era's Kristallanchant

You will note not one of the above says anything about hating Jews or wanting harm done to them. But simply the act of disagreeing with anything Israel does or says will get one labeled an anti-semite.



Because they were. Their official name was the National Socialist German Worker's Party. What's the problem with that?

It's not like a religion trying to pass itself off as a race when anyone can become part of that religion.



Yes, Israel elected at least one terrorist as their leader. You remember Yitzhak Shamir, the guy who bombed civilians at the Kind David Hotel and shot up Palestinians.

Israel is the only democracy and only one where women and gays are treated as equals

Any member of Hamas or their supporters deserves to be killed just like Bin Ladin

 

[Oblimo]

No, it's not. It's a dog whistle used by Jews against anyone who says anything remotely against Israel.

This sweeping, negative generalization does not bode well for the rest of this post.

It's not like a religion trying to pass itself off as a race when anyone can become part of that religion.

I beg your pardon?

Encourage divestment and boycott of Israel for its apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!

The US’ anti-boycott regulations and reporting requirements are pretty bizarre, that’s for sure.

 

[IG_88]

I beg your pardon?

I never promised you a rose garden.

 

[Oblimo]

I never promised you a rose garden.

I could promise you things!

Like, uh...Like big diamond rings!

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Despite the attempt to absolve groups like Antifa, BDS, Code Pink and people like Barack Obama, Keith Ellison and Linda Sansour, these are people promote the rise of anti-Semitism in the U.S.

It is not Donald Trump or the Republicans who support Israel.

Trump is a whore for Israel, surely you jest.

 

[Oblimo]

Trump is a whore for Israel, surely you jest.

I think Shirley left out a vital comma in her last sentence.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

False. If that were true a Palestinian would be able to buy property in and around Jerusalem. But they can't.



No, it's not. It's a dog whistle used by Jews against anyone who says anything remotely against Israel.

Don't like Israel's apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!

Don't want to sell your products in Israel? ANTI-SEMITE!!

Encourage divestment and boycott of Israel for its apartheid policies? ANTI-SEMITE!!

You will note not one of the above says anything about hating Jews or wanting harm done to them. But simply the act of disagreeing with anything Israel does or says will get one labeled an anti-semite.



Because they were. Their official name was the National Socialist German Worker's Party. What's the problem with that?

It's not like a religion trying to pass itself off as a race when anyone can become part of that religion.



Yes, Israel elected at least one terrorist as their leader. You remember Yitzhak Shamir, the guy who bombed civilians at the Kind David Hotel and shot up Palestinians.

+1 if we had that here. Absolutely true.

 

[beew]

No, it's not. It's a dog whistle used by Jews against anyone who says anything remotely against Israel..

Yes, you're a total anti-Zionist, Not an anti-semite.
Hillarious!

 

[Que]

Anti-zionism is not even thinly-veiled anti-Semitism. Look at the posters in this thread they can't help but spewing anti-jewish venom in their threads. We're not talking dog whistles we're talkin absolute, classic anti-semitic tropes.

I've never understood why they choose one particular Semitic tribe over the other. What is it about the Palestinians that they find so tremendously attractive that they feel the Palestinians are worthy of their support?

 

[Noor]

Anti-Zionism != antisemitism. Most Jews do not live in Israel and never will. There are more Jews in New York than in Jerusalem, indeed, than in all of Israel. What does Israel even matter?

Some Jews do not support the State of Israel as a country on religious grounds, there can not be a state Israel until the Messiah comes. On the other hand, "making Aliyah" by moving to the Land of Israel is one of the most basic tenets of Zionism, whether it is a defined state or not.
Israel has a proclamation of independence, but no constitution.
Israel matters to many Jews, Christians and Muslims, in particularly Jerusulem's Temple Mount/Haram esh-Sharif/Dome of the Rock. It is also important to the Jews because it is the only country they can depend on to allow them in.

It's not like a religion trying to pass itself off as a race when anyone can become part of that religion.

Yes, Israel elected at least one terrorist as their leader. You remember Yitzhak Shamir, the guy who bombed civilians at the Kind David Hotel and shot up Palestinians.

It's not so easy to become a Jew, they are generally non converting, at least since Roman times. Various branches have different requirements, but being born of a Jewish mother is your best way in, and always stands up to whatever right of return BS is happening in Israel.

I think you mean Menachem Begin, not Shamir, who bombed the King David Hotel.
Many countries of the Middle East during Begin's time had heads of State who were Terrorists against the British- Sadat, Begin, Arafat...

 

[phrodeau]

See, the Palestinians are the natives, and the Zionists are the refugees that they took in. The moral being, don't let refugees into your country, because they'll take it over.

 

[beew]

First ignore Wikipedia when it comes to the Middle East they won't let you call Hamas a terorist group

In regard to the second group of anti zionists they can never answer why they ignore all other human rights violations. A good example is Lorde who took the advice of two people and cancel her tour to Israel but contiued her Russia dates

I think that you're giving people too much credit.
-- Yes, there are many dickheads whose "anti-Zionism" is just a cover for antisemitism. And I, too am critical of the disproportionate migration of just one group, and believe the massmedia reports of forced evictions of Palestinians. Even if I believe in the legitimacy of Israel.
-- However, many of my acquaintances are just ignorant of the region's history. Many believe that prior to the 1940's it was just Arab land, no Jewish presence, and Zionists just decided to take it over.

To add insult to injury (the fact that many people, myself included aren't well informed or are ignorant about the history of the Middle East) the online information is so contradictory and confusing:
-- Wikipedia says that in 1882 Palestine's population was just approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 Jewish.
Then one reads that 500,000 Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and Jordan Arabs were encouraged by Brits to settle into West Palestine between 1900 to 1945, while discouraging Jewish migration during that period. Brits being the ones who drafted the Declaration of Balfour.

The GB needs a good debate around these issues.

 

[Kirkrapine]

I've never understood why they choose one particular Semitic tribe over the other. What is it about the Palestinians that they find so tremendously attractive that they feel the Palestinians are worthy of their support?

They're not any better than the Jews, they just happen to be the ones occupied and oppressed at the moment, therefore all persons of good will side with them, it's just that simple.

 

[Oblimo]

Israel matters to many Jews, Christians and Muslims, in particularly Jerusulem's Temple Mount/Haram esh-Sharif/Dome of the Rock. It is also important to the Jews because it is the only country they can depend on to allow them in.

From Israel’s founding, its violent destruction was inevitable. Much like the detonation of a nuclear weapon in Manhattan. Unless the world makes a 180 degree turn, and it hasn’t for decades, it’s only a matter of time.

 

[Kirkrapine]

From Israel’s founding, its violent destruction was inevitable.

Up to now they've held on by being stronger than their enemies. How is it inevitable that that would change?

 

[beew]

Up to now they've held on by being stronger than their enemies. How is it inevitable that that would change?

From what I read:
The issue with Palestinian and other Arab authorities isn't their legitimate stand against abuses committed by the Israeli goverment, or it's territorial expansionism.
It's the fact that they question the legitimacy of Any Jewish presence in the region, by distorting facts:

They falsely claim over 1000 years of uninterrupted massive Arab population in the region, and that Jews were absent for far too long to have any legitimacy.

When in fact, the region was relatively underpopulated prior to the 19th century. In 1882 Palestine's population was just approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 Jewish.

Only the descendants of those 320.000 basically should have a legitimate sense of ownership, .
The rest of it's Arab popullation traces it's roots to 20th century Arab immigration to Palestine (Egypt and so on), not unlike the Jewish one.



When Arab kids are taught History in that way, it's natural that they will grow up seeing Jews as colonists and invaders, and they will never settle for any peaceful solution. Even if Israel's goverment's stance changed.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Only the descendants of those 320.000 basically should have a legitimate sense of ownership, .
The rest of it's Arab popullation traces it's roots to 20th century Arab immigration to Palestine . . .

Never heard before of any such wave. Details?

And, how does that make it inevitable that Israel will be destroyed?

 

[beew]

Never heard before of any such wave. Details?

And, how does that make it inevitable that Israel will be destroyed?

For example, I read that 500,000 Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and Jordan Arabs settled into West Palestine between 1900 to 1945.

But I'm not a f...g historian.

I'm just saying that the more I read, the more I realize that the region's history isn't as simplistic as presented to us. From both sides.

It's the simplification of such a complex history, that creates all these radical pro or ante attitudes.

 

[Kirkrapine]

For example, I read that 500,000 Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and Jordan Arabs settled into West Palestine between 1900 to 1945.

But I'm not a f...g historian.

I'm just saying that the more I read, the more I realize that the region's history isn't as simplistic as presented to us. From both sides.

It's the simplification of such a complex history, that creates all these radical pro or ante attitudes.

Well, it is true that the Jews were absent (in significant numbers) for a long time. It is also true that the Palestinians are their cousins. They're descended from Israelites, Canaanites, Philistines, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Crusaders, Turks, perhaps even the Brits -- every nation that ever had a presence there.

 

[beew]

Well, it is true that the Jews were absent (in significant numbers) for a long time. It is also true that the Palestinians are their cousins. They're descended from Israelites, Canaanites, Philistines, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Crusaders, Turks -- every nation that ever had a presence there.

And how many true Palestinians (so to speak) were present for a long time?
Less than 300.000.
But for Their descendants, the rest of the Arabs who are now in Palestine and call themselves Palestinians, are children of people who migrated only a few decades before Jews did.

That's what I read,I can't comment on it's truthinness.

 

[Kirkrapine]

For example, I read that 500,000 Egyptian, Syrian, Iraqi and Jordan Arabs settled into West Palestine between 1900 to 1945.

I wonder what the economic draw would have been?

 

[naughtymind]

From what I read:
The issue with Palestinian and other Arab authorities isn't their legitimate stand against abuses committed by the Israeli goverment, or it's territorial expansionism.
It's the fact that they question the legitimacy of Any Jewish presence in the region, by distorting facts:

They falsely claim over 1000 years of uninterrupted massive Arab population in the region, and that Jews were absent for far too long to have any legitimacy.

When in fact, the region was relatively underpopulated prior to the 19th century. In 1882 Palestine's population was just approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 Jewish.

Only the descendants of those 320.000 basically should have a legitimate sense of ownership, .
The rest of it's Arab popullation traces it's roots to 20th century Arab immigration to Palestine (Egypt and so on), not unlike the Jewish one.



When Arab kids are taught History in that way, it's natural that they will grow up seeing Jews as colonists and invaders, and they will never settle for any peaceful solution. Even if Israel's goverment's stance changed.

You make some reasonable points here, although I think it’s a bit risky to generalize too much about what the Palestinians issues are. They have very wide ranging opinions, just as the Israelis do. I think there are plenty who are thoroughly enraged and desperate precisely due to the abuses you mention. Expecting them to go as far as say recognition of Israel as a starting point is not realistic at all, and has been used as a tool to sabatoge negotiations from the start. As for “facts”, I doubt we will ever get enough of the key party’s to agree on any historical claims. Besides, “facts” are just soooo yesterday; the wave of the future is just screaming “fake news “ to anything anyone disagrees with right?

Current humanitarian, and security issues might, just might be possible to address, but only with substantial external pressures on all sides imo. I do not believe that dredging up the past really works out in anyone’s favor, including ours! There is just so much “just cause” for mistrust and retaliation (for all sides), I don’t think that either side is really ready (or able) to let go of the offenses committed by the other. If we remain stuck trying to sort out who is more right, or wrong, we will remain stuck in a cycle of violence and instability. The US owns a good deal of this current mess, and could certainly do more to push for a peaceful solution, but we’ve currently got plenty of other issues closer to home that are dominating our focus. I expect this will continue to be a mess for many more years to come, which is a real human tragedy.

 

[Dazzle1]

Another example from the left

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wo...rty-members/mLidDrqqeFgW1DlCpsJomM/story.html

 

[Oblimo]

Up to now they've held on by being stronger than their enemies. How is it inevitable that that would change?

Attrition. Israel has to win every fight. It’s enemies, which far exceed Israel’s population, need to only win once.

And nuclear proliferation is inevitable because all of the US effort to keep the region unstable, while extremely successful in the short run of the past 70 years, can’t work forever.

I am, however, a catastrophist. It’s entirely possible, and I used to hope for, a generational change to people who realize how lethally stupid their parents were being will finally resolve things. But Wahhabism and Israel’s incubating of terrorists in Gaza are designed to stop that from happening.