Am I really the only person who finds

[AwkwardlySet]

Trying to understand what's popular with who and why, to hear how different people relate to the same tropes, trying to express my responses as clearly as I can while trying to see who agrees with those responses and to what extent, to hear how different people negotiate parallel issues in writing, and reading, erotica - do you think that's an inappropriate way to use the forums, or is there something specific that I've argued or just said that has provoked this bit of business?

There is no need to get defensive. I wasn't calling you out or anything like that.
This website requires only basic grammar and punctuation for any story to be published. There are also content restrictions but those aren't very strict and things often slip through. So the stories you see are mostly ruled by readers' taste.

What I am saying is that most of us are in the same boat when it comes to the amount and types of stories that get published every day. There is plenty of nonsensical content, much much more than quality content. It is what it is, and most of us have already accepted that reality, which is likely why you aren't getting as much response as you hoped for.
Again, I sympathize but most of us had this discussion many times in the AH and we are all resigned to the reality of Literotica.

 

[Gamblnluck]

My story Rulk the Rat and the Demon Dagger has a rape scene that leaves the victim traumatised. The second half of the story is about how that trauma is visited on the perpetrator.

For some reason I can't read sci-fi. Once I start seeing demons, orcs and trolls and elves, I just lose my interest. It could be a story I'd love to read with real life human characters, but not once they are changed into other than human.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

There is no need to get defensive. I wasn't calling you out or anything like that.
This website requires only basic grammar and punctuation for any story to be published. There are also content restrictions but those aren't very strict and things often slip through. So the stories you see are mostly ruled by readers' taste.

What I am saying is that most of us are in the same boat when it comes to the amount and types of stories that get published every day. There is plenty of nonsensical content, much much more than quality content. It is what it is, and most of us have already accepted that reality, which is likely why you aren't getting as much response as you hoped for.
Again, I sympathize but most of us had this discussion many times in the AH and we are all resigned to the reality of Literotica.

That's just fatalistic. Things can change. Don't you know the erotic journey of a thousand miles starts with a single pornographic step?

 

[AngelaSaxon]

The next story I read - just a standalone i.e. non-series story suggested by the 'random stories' section of the NC/R page just now - was 'Cocktease Reward' by Draggo469.

https://www.literotica.com/s/cocktease-reward

What do we learn about female sexual biology and lubrication in relation to pleasure, self-understanding and consent in this one? Spoilers from this point.

A woman has been knocked down, tied up and gagged by her frustrated boyfriend. She's flirty with him and even more with other men and she doesn't actually fuck him (or anyone else). That's why he wants to punish her.

Second paragraph: "One finger ran down her spine, her ass crack, and then through her pussy lips... and came away wet. Surprised, Vincent sniffed it and then licked his finger. Yeah, the bitch was wet. So much for her damned limits."

She's socially conservative and sexually inexperienced, which gives specific content to the sexual repression and ideas of propriety which will be challenged and overcome while being tied down and gagged against her will.

Him going down on her "made her feel naughty, and it grossed her out a little bit... but it felt so good too. She began moving her hips back and forth, trying to get more of the wonderful feelings".

Then she's momentarily trying to deny how much she's enjoying having him licking her ass.

She's definitely in the Betrayed By Her Body category. When he starts fucking her, "her pussy didn't seem to realize that everything was all wrong... she began to forget her angry feelings".

He pulls out and "she wanted was him back in her... she needed release. If there hadn't been a gag in her mouth, she would have pleaded, there was something wonderful waiting and she was so close to it".

She's never had anal sex and he barely prepares or lubricates her, but his forced anal sex only relatively briefly makes her experience extreme pain. As a result he even momentarily almost feels bad - he's punishing her for being a 'tease' and for not letting him fuck her, but "she'd been pretty good once she didn't have a choice", before he just shoved his dick halfway into her ass.

But his ambivalence is unnecessary anyway, because at that moment of his doubt it becomes clear that she loves the assfucking, and then she has an orgasm: "Surely she couldn't be enjoying this, she couldn't cum with him in her ass, could she? The strokes began moving faster, going deeper, and she realized that it was starting to feel good."

Because it's framed as her overcoming internalised conservative ideas about sexuality and proper behaviour, when she then thinks "maybe deep down she was just a slut", the story doesn't necessarily insist that the reader take it entirely literally - though the context for her thoughts about being a 'slut' does mostly seem to lean toward confirmation - it's overwhelmingly only her initial sexual ideology that needs contestation, and that led to the behaviour he thinks of as her being a 'cocktease'

"Vincent could actually feel the moment of submission, her whole body relaxed and she began moving her hips back against him of her own volition, actually trying to fill her own ass up with his dick."

They both orgasm, best of her life.

He releases her from the restraints, and "her hand gripped his wrist and glazed, pleasure-filled eyes looked up at him. "Do it again please?""

The End.

 

[StillStunned]

For some reason I can't read sci-fi. Once I start seeing demons, orcs and trolls and elves, I just lose my interest. It could be a story I'd love to read with real life human characters, but not once they are changed into other than human.

That's a shame. One reason I wrote the story was to create the nastiest POV character I could, but still make them believable and relatable. Judging by the feedback I got, it worked.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

That's a shame. One reason I wrote the story was to create the nastiest POV character I could, but still make them believable and relatable. Judging by the feedback I got, it worked.

Hey I'll give it a read, part of the continuing investigation of ways these issues are negotiated in fiction here.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

The next standalone story I was served up in the Random Stories section of the NC/R page didn't EXACTLY follow the pattern we've been examining, it's fair to say.

It was about a woman who goes to very serious car accidents as a nurse, puts extremely damaged, in truth mangled people in the back of an ambulance, and while they suffer with many broken bones, internal and much external bleeding and imminent organ failure, she does sex things with them until they die.

It's unclear if her ability to get them erect minutes before death leads these men to the excited realisation that the hidden truth of their sexual nature was the desire to get a last minute blowjob instead of going to hospital after suffering major injuries in a multi--car pile-up and then die covered in blood.

Personally I didn't find the story arousing. You can tell because I didn't get wet.

 

[Gamblnluck]

That's a shame. One reason I wrote the story was to create the nastiest POV character I could, but still make them believable and relatable. Judging by the feedback I got, it worked.

Yeah. its me. I don;t care for an half octopus caressing some satanic demon crawling out the ooze to infect the minds of his victims. You make that same a character an excon working over the soccer mom and I can relate. Plus I like to see the bad guy get theirs in the end and feel some retribution. Too many just accelerate trying to outdo themself until even a sense of reality is shattered.
And before somebody says this is fiction, and NOT reality. Reality exists in the world you create. Star Wars formed its own reality. People could understand the actions of the characters because they acted along relatable lines.

 

[StillStunned]

Yeah. its me. I don;t care for an half octopus caressing some satanic demon crawling out the ooze to infect the minds of his victims. You make that same a character an excon working over the soccer mom and I can relate. Plus I like to see the bad guy get theirs in the end and feel some retribution. Too many just accelerate trying to outdo themself until even a sense of reality is shattered.
And before somebody says this is fiction, and NOT reality. Reality exists in the world you create. Star Wars formed its own reality. People could understand the actions of the characters because they acted along relatable lines.

My fantasy writing is heavily influenced by pulp sword & sorcery and more recently grimdark in the vein of Joe Abercrombie and Mark Lawrence. People are people, and there's always a bigger fish. In the story I mentioned, Rulk gets his: no more, no less.

(It was very tempting to write a light at the end of the tunnel, but in the end I decided he didn't deserve it. According to the comments, my readers agree.)

 

[alohadave]

I felt mildly bad for not using a specific example or two at the start of this thread, so I've adopted a simple system - just choose a story from the random stories section of the NC/R page, excluding stories that are parts of larger series, and see if, to what degree, in what ways it fits into the patterns I've tried to talk about or does something wholly or partly different. And repeat until exhausted.

So you are going to look for stories to bash because you don't like them. Classy.

 

[WCSGarland]

So you are going to look for stories to bash because you don't like them. Classy.

So, is it your position that only feedback on stories you like is permissible in the Story Feedback Forum?

 

[AngelaSaxon]

So you are going to look for stories to bash because you don't like them. Classy.

I've been looking at stories supplied by the site supposedly at random, to reflect on the different ways particular tropes appear, which eventually might be statistically significant but currently just gives me a better sense of the spectrum of ways people negotiate these questions.

I'm not searching for stories I'll hate, I'm just looking at what appears, though with certain criteria in place.

It's the story feedback section - aren't my responses here my feedback on these stories?

And my tastes are sufficiently in the minority here that I imagine most people can survive any criticism that DOES appear.

Also, I mostly care about these issues in relation to writers I think are actually pretty good - if they're awful, I'm not invested enough to be disappointed if they fracture my identification by turning the woman into 'girl on a two minute journey to happy obedience', for example.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

While I'm doing "Am I the only one" talk - People use the word 'slut' in their writing here just constantly. I'm not offended by it in fiction, but it does mean the character, and possibly the writer, believes dumb things.

In real life, in my world, pretty much the only people still using that word completely without irony are the worst incel dipshits and some borderline fascist assholes...

You may as well call me an ewok, since you're invoking something completely absurd that can only even exist as a mirage for people who live in an entirely parallel universe. I'd never think 'oh dear am I a slut?' any more than most guys having sex for the first time think to themselves 'oh no am I a whore?'

Am I literally the only one here who feels this way?

I am, incidentally, very familiar with and not inherently opposed to shifts in the ways people use language between literary pornography... and the rest of life.

In life just generally, I'd refer to a '19 year old woman', for example; only in erotica or roleplay would it occur to me to say '19 year old girl'. Let me ask people - is it turn off (for guys who I'm very much hoping and assuming are not criminals about sex and youth) - is it a turn-off if I write 'woman' instead of 'girl' in the context?

I think that even apart from the question of age, 'girl' now comes with inherent associations in such contexts, solidified through decades of advertising and mass media representation - girls are fun lively energetic bikini-wearing sexy etcetera - many other ideas too, some contradictory, but the pattern is definitely embedded and probably still informs some of how people feel if I write 'woman' instead of girl.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

While I'm doing "Am I the only one" talk - People use the word 'slut' in their writing here just constantly. I'm not offended by it in fiction, but it does mean the character, and possibly the writer, believes dumb things.

In real life, in my world, pretty much the only people still using that word completely without irony are the worst incel dipshits and some borderline fascist assholes...

You may as well call me an ewok, since you're invoking something completely absurd that can only even exist as a mirage for people who live in an entirely parallel universe. I'd never think 'oh dear am I a slut?' any more than most guys having sex for the first time think to themselves 'oh no am I a whore?'

Am I literally the only one here who feels this way?

I am, incidentally, very familiar with and not inherently opposed to shifts in the ways people use language between literary pornography... and the rest of life.

In life just generally, I'd refer to a '19 year old woman', for example; only in erotica or roleplay would it occur to me to say '19 year old girl'. Let me ask people - is it turn off (for guys who I'm very much hoping and assuming are not criminals about sex and youth) - is it a turn-off if I write 'woman' instead of 'girl' in the context?

I think that even apart from the question of age, 'girl' now comes with inherent associations in such contexts, solidified through decades of advertising and mass media representation - girls are fun lively energetic bikini-wearing sexy etcetera - many other ideas too, some contradictory, but the pattern is definitely embedded and probably still informs some of how people feel if I write 'woman' instead of girl.

For the purposes of better understanding the spectrum of how people negotiate these questions here I was once a day reading all of the non-series 'Random Stories' suggested on the NC/R page when I opened it, but I just can't stick to that rule.

I need to at least modify the rule so that I don't include Ashson - I don't learn anything new anyway... and I just get annoyed at myself for reading them... it helps a bit if I'm very focussed on paying attention to language and tropes rather than attempting to enjoy them or be aroused, because the latter are frustratingly impossible.

I know they're light, but these kinds of stories still work through some level of identification. Maybe it's for the guys to identify in these cases, because I often hate the guys sure, but by halfway through I ALWAYS would want to stab the women.

They're like aliens from another world where every woman has an acquired brain injury short-circuiting their ability to retain thoughts or have any control of basic motor functions lol.

That's my review!

 

[AlinaX]

Ashson?

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Ashson?

He's got to be one of the most prolific writers on this site, with hundreds and hundreds of stories, so they come up regularly in the 'Random Stories' sections of the various story categories.

There's also an enormous amount of overlap in his stories, with very similar narratives appearing over and over with minor variations, not anything like to the point of actual self-plagiarism really, but if you were to google his name and phrases that stand in for his most common tropes you'd probably get a lot of hits...

There's a sense of disbelief that I experience that, picking stories at random from hundreds and hundreds, or the 'Random Stories' function supposedly doing the same, they're a range of setups for always the exact same thing; a woman is raped and it's the greatest sex ever, the woman always gets uncontrollably excited, she always ends up actively fucking him, almost always with the exact same words - his fingers touching her vagina always gets her wet, her body 'betrays' her, he always knows this will get her excited, he's always right, it always means she doesn't want him to stop, she's always 'pressing up' to meet him, she is always completely unlike any woman who ever existed in a way that makes me unable to enjoy the stories, there are often comments from people claiming to be women saying they like the stories, and in about 95% of cases I'm pretty sure they're lying. Hundreds and hundreds, literally the same.

He did this gimmick once where he wrote supposedly the same story but from the perspective of the guy raping in one, and the woman being raped in the other. Except they both had exactly the same perspective in every significant sense. The rapist's perspective, and the identical perspective he'd like to imagine for the woman being raped, only, since Ashson is writing it, it's actually within this fiction true, and the same. Rashomon but everyone is really on the exact same page.

I'd honestly thought at least if THAT'S the gimmick he'd give them a genuinely different experience and viewpoint but no lol.

 

[AlinaX]

Ah, there's another author like that that I avoid.

 

[Gamblnluck]

While I'm doing "Am I the only one" talk - People use the word 'slut' in their writing here just constantly. I'm not offended by it in fiction, but it does mean the character, and possibly the writer, believes dumb things.

I use slut a lot is several of my pieces. To me it is a woman who just can't seem to keep her legs together. I use it a fair bit as an insult from one female character to another. Most of my characters are intelligent. Maybe some have little common sense, but still intelligent.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

"Just can't seem to keep her legs together" so slut, in the real world, is an insane, moralising and shall we say extremely gendered way to view the decisions people make about when, with whom and how often to have sex. And by people it's women, a "type" of woman, the slut. If people can't see how insane that is as a way to understand the world, how it turns actual people into literally mythological creatures by making assumptions that only make sense in a world parts of which are still viciously dedicated to attempting to control the lives and sexualities of women, then I don't know what to tell you, I feel like I must be living in an entirely different universe?

In fiction, and/or used ironically or at least not with credulous inability to perceive reality, the word can serve all sorts of functions. But there's still something nuts about such a huge portion of writers here writing about the exact same parallel universe where the idea is just accepted by everyone, like it makes sense. Because hopefully, outside of particularly reactionary spaces, that's decreasingly true out here in meatspace.

 

[WCSGarland]

From a WIP -

Any man who can resist a hypersexual woman’s advances indefinitely would deserve an award. I was weak. I caved in to Jessa’s lures, and we had our way with each other if truth be told. Now, it’s been said that a hypersexual is considered a slut by whomever she or he is not giving sex. And to my knowledge, Jessa is selective with whom she has sex. She’s not a slut. I think Jessa has to have an emotional connection to whomever she goes to bed with.

I think calling somebody a slut says more about the person using the label than it says about the person being labeled.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

From a WIP -

Any man who can resist a hypersexual woman’s advances indefinitely would deserve an award. I was weak. I caved in to Jessa’s lures, and we had our way with each other if truth be told. Now, it’s been said that a hypersexual is considered a slut by whomever she or he is not giving sex. And to my knowledge, Jessa is selective with whom she has sex. She’s not a slut. I think Jessa has to have an emotional connection to whomever she goes to bed with.

I think calling somebody a slut says more about the person using the label than it says about the person being labeled.

It's an understanding of human sexuality and idea of what we're supposed to care about so far from my own that it doesn't even count as an insult. It's like if some 18th century guy suddenly appeared and started calling people trollops.

I think it's revealing that such a significant portion of the people writing dom-sub-adjacent NC/R stories can't imagine how to do the D part without a discourse derived almost entirely from reactionary fantasies about women being sluts and whores.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I stopped the practice of regularly reading the stories suggested by the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R page, and instead started doing it once a week instead of every day but also looking at non-series stories on which someone commented, especially if they weren't very recent stories i.e. not stories people read just because they're in the 'New Stories' section.

Anyway, after that dull methodological paragraph: Because of this new practice I got to read Bigrick60's 'The Repair Man', the first comments on which were from eight years ago, the most recent from forty minutes ago as I write.

The story starts pretty conventionally, a stranger asserting authority with the usual threats and abuse and slapping and dragging her around, as often is the case meaning that he starts to get a degree of compliance.

Later in the story, there IS one short section of entirely formulaic Body Betrays commentary: "He squeezes them rather softly, then caresses her nipples, and for the first time she curses her body for responding to the stimuli. He then leans in and begins to kiss her neck. She knows its wrong but her body again betrays her and she can feel herself start to get excited."

That's the beginning and end of that theme. Without two of those three sentences I think you wouldn't have guessed that was intended.

I'm not suggesting this story is THE alternative model for a different way of negotiating questions of sexual response in NC/R stories - I'm not looking for a single model, but trying to look at the small spectrum that is currently sufficiently hegemonic that IT amounts to a kind of single model of how to negotiate such questions.

I hesitate to offer spoilers, but it's certainly fair to say that she doesn't find that getting wet means she's so aroused that it retrospectively amounts to consent, she doesn't find herself unable to resist pressing her body up to meet his thrusts, she's not conflicted, so excited that she no longer wishes him to stop, and she doesn't suddenly find herself uncontrollably filled with a need to submit to her new master, fucked into submission by the best orgasms she's ever had, the truth of her desires, of her self, finally revealed... etcetera.... Not that.

It's a short story anyway.

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-repair-man

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I can't really be bothered talking about the next one I read using the same method of choosing stories, except to say that it was another one where he ties her up against her will and rapes her, her first time having sex, and she just gets so excited that she becomes grateful, as you do:

"That night, after I sent her home, she thanked me for teaching her what she needed to know."

As you do.

The author is one of the people who use the word 'slut' like they think it actually means something, and it all comes across very incel fantasy by someone who has very little if any experience with half the human race.

Though in any case the accepted and most common tropes of the NC/R section do frequently tend to closely align with the kind of reactionary fantasies you'd get from incel culture and PUA grifters and others profiting from feeding the delusional misogyny and resentful isolation of a whole stratum of contemporary manliness... often complete with the US racial-sexual mythologies about black men and white women, though this story was Asian male wish fulfilment stuff...

It's difficult not to think that the reactionary tendencies within some of these works might start to more obviously intersect with the ways rising fascism wants people to experience race and gender...

 

[StillStunned]

It's difficult not to think that the reactionary tendencies within some of these works might start to more obviously intersect with the ways rising fascism wants people to experience race and gender...

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be said, but be wary of turning this thread political. That will get it closed, which would be a shame because it's been an interesting and worthwhile discussion.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be said, but be wary of turning this thread political. That will get it closed, which would be a shame because it's been an interesting and worthwhile discussion.

I'm happy to sever that line of discussion.

The primary continuation in my mind at least centres on more properly substantial responses to particular stories, almost actual reviews as well as a continuing reflection on the ways writers negotiate specifically female sexual response in works appearing in the NC/R section.

Many years ago I read Guillaume Apollinaire's Les Onze Milles Verges, albeit in English translation, and though my memory isn't perfect, and though there's not a chance it would ever be published on this site, I'm wondering if he might have attempted a portrayal of sexually driven women who weren't simply sticking a female name on projections of very specific male fantasies...