A serous thread - I must be sick!

[Jenny_Jackson]

I was perusing the "New Stories" and noticed something that's bothered me for some time: Both the stories and titles tend to be fantasy rather than real life. I could have picked a dozen actual story titles, but that would seem defferential to the authors, and that is not my intention.

So, rather than insult anyone, I will use the imaginary, though typical, title "Wilma's First Gang Bang". If there is such a story, I'm sorry. It was not my intention to use your title.

Now, how many writers on lit have ever actually been in a gang bang? How many intend to participate in one over, say, the next year?

My answer to that is almost zero. I say almost because among you people, I'm sure someone has actually tried it, if for no other reason than "research".

But think of the proliferation of gang bang stories posted on Lit. How many? I would guess hundreds. And how man "Mother Fucks Her Son (or Daughter or Uncle or Daddy Fucks His Daughter or Son or Niece, etc) stories are there.

I truely wonder how many have actually done this?

 

[CeriseNoire]

What's the matter with fantasy? Isn't at least part of erotica about appealing to sexual fantasies? Lord knows I fantasize about many more things than those I have lived (sexually and otherwise).

As for the categories/topics you've mentioned, perhaps it's the attached taboos that excite people (and thus prompts writers to write about them).

 

[Pure]

hi jenny,

that's a fine question, and goes right to the core.

so say, "stories are about truth." that's the same idea.

i think the first point that must be made is that literature, though it stems from experience, is generated in and by the imagination:

I never saw a Moor
I never saw the Sea
Yet know I how the Heather looks
And what a Billow be

while there are a number of poets and artists who go out at look at reality, the result (the work of art), although it reflects experience/observation, is also shaped in the imagination. consider monet's 'haystacks': ever see a haystack that looked like a monet one?

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/haystacks/boston.jpg

yet other artists seem to rely largely on imagination: consider "The Story of O". Do you think Ms Aury, its author, went and visited "chateaus", bdsm establishments and was documenting their practices? Had she ever been flogged to the point of frenzied screaming, been branded on the butt, or had her labia pieced and chain links installed? Aury drew on Sade, but he too, never visited a remote, bdsm "castle" where virgins were sacrificed

some of us DO want to know about what's actual: i'd love to read an account of a 'real gang bang' or for that matter, a real 'first encounter.' that's hard to find. here's why: few people can reliably report and convey such a thing-- the paradox: they rely on their imagination and cliches from literature/TV/movies!

consider Sebold's Lucky . it's an account of her rape. it's fascinating but... (surprise) NOT very erotic!

consider Charlotte Vale Allen's Daddy's Girl . it's an account of her incest. fascinating, disturbing... but again NOT erotic. as you say, there are thousands of fantasy accounts. but there are only a handful (<10) of good, true accounts in English, in print. (note Allen is a novelist!.)

here's one more: a woman's account of a LOT of fucking--hundreds of partners: the sexual life of Catherine Millet , by Catherine Millet.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/biography/story/0,6000,718044,00.html

i havn't read it yet, but a number of reviewers claim it's boring; maybe they're lying of course, but the point is, it's probably neither porn or erotica.

 

[jomar]

And how man "Mother Fucks Her Son (or Daughter or Uncle or Daddy Fucks His Daughter or Son or Niece, etc) stories are there.

I truely wonder how many have actually done this?

I hope all of those are fantasy.

What exactly about the fantasy stuff bothers you? Even your stories have fantastical things happen. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint.

 

[CeriseNoire]

Pure, you refer to Ms. Aury in your post. Is that the person who did the English translation of The Story of O?

Back to the topic at hand, I think many of us draw on personal experiences, though they may not be the focus of the story. For example, someone who writes an incest story might have experienced the turmoil and conflict of breaking a taboo, even if it's not that particular one. Also, sometimes real events don't quite fit the narrative structure we want to use, so fantasy elements need to be added.

As a side note, nowadays, people seem to use the term "gang bang" as sex between one person and several partners at once, rather that in its literal meaning, so that would increase the pool of people who have experienced it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Truth in Fiction??!!??

Fiction is just that - Fantasy! Whether it be the Romance Novel or the Sci-Fi thriller, it all fantasy.

You want truth? Go read non-fiction, although some of that can be quite bizarre.

 

[Tom Collins]

Zeb...I think she's asking why more people don't write things that are realistic, rather than things that are true. From her perspective, extreme subjects, like gang bangs and incest, aren't realistic. I tend to agree, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Pure]

h cerise,

aury is the author of "Story of O", under the penname of Pauline Reage. (i've added a phrase to my posting). you might have a look at the interview with her, in the New Yorker, about how she composed the book, and to what purpose (to turn on her b.f.).

(and 'aury' is in fact another, but non-porn-related penname!)

Tom
why more people don't write things that are realistic,, if that's Jenny's question: same reason authors write fiction: they have an audience that wants imagination and libido stimulated, not a 'blow by blow' of an actual event. that's why they want "the degradation of annie" in 12 Literotica chapters, rather than "the sexual life of Catherine Millet", an autobiography. (note that the autobiographies of some males, autobios held to be erotic--"My life and loves" by Harris-- are probably quite a bit fictional!)

 

[CeriseNoire]

aury is the author of "Story of O", under the penname of Pauline Reage. (i've added a phrase to my posting). you might have a look at the interview with her, in the New Yorker, about how she composed the book, and to what purpose (to turn on her b.f.).

(and 'aury' is in fact another, but non-porn-related penname!)

Yes I knew Pauline Reage was her penname, and the part about her writing it as a series of letters. I asked about it because I remembered her real name being Desclos, so I wondered if I was mistaken. I'm curious now, maybe next time I go home for a visit, I'll see if I can find what she wrote as Aury.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Zeb...I think she's asking why more people don't write things that are realistic, rather than things that are true. From her perspective, extreme subjects, like gang bangs and incest, aren't realistic. I tend to agree, but that's neither here nor there.

True, and I miss spoke. That said, this is an adult fiction site, which means you are always going to get the hardcore things that don't really happen in real life. Also, what I noticed is that certain types of stories are published in groups. One day it will be Loving Wives and Taboo stories, the next will be Erotic Coupling and Erotic Horror with a peppering of Interacial, etc. So maybe she saw a day when a lot of Group and such were being released.

 

[Pure]

yes,

cerise, i think desclos is the 'real name' behind "Aury," but many people knew her as Aury, so it wasn't purely a penname, possibly a 'name change'? she gave interviews as 'Aury' and published translations of poems (writing them, her profession) under that name.

 

[Tom Collins]

Tom
why more people don't write things that are realistic,, if that's Jenny's question: same reason authors write fiction: they have an audience that wants imagination and libido stimulated, not a 'blow by blow' of an actual event. that's why they want "the degradation of annie" in 12 Literotica chapters, rather than "the sexual life of Catherine Millet", an autobiography. (note that the autobiographies of some males, autobios held to be erotic--"My life and loves" by Harris-- are probably quite a bit fictional!)

Oh, I'm certainly aware of all of that. It's clear people want these stories, or they wouldn't get read, and no being read, they wouldn't get written. I wasn't saying I don't understand why they're written, I was agreeing that they usually aren't very realistic.

 

[DG Hear]

Jenny

I was perusing the "New Stories" and noticed something that's bothered me for some time: Both the stories and titles tend to be fantasy rather than real life. I could have picked a dozen actual story titles, but that would seem defferential to the authors, and that is not my intention.

So, rather than insult anyone, I will use the imaginary, though typical, title "Wilma's First Gang Bang". If there is such a story, I'm sorry. It was not my intention to use your title.

Now, how many writers on lit have ever actually been in a gang bang? How many intend to participate in one over, say, the next year?

My answer to that is almost zero. I say almost because among you people, I'm sure someone has actually tried it, if for no other reason than "research".

But think of the proliferation of gang bang stories posted on Lit. How many? I would guess hundreds. And how man "Mother Fucks Her Son (or Daughter or Uncle or Daddy Fucks His Daughter or Son or Niece, etc) stories are there.

I truely wonder how many have actually done this?

It's the reason I began writing in the first place. I was reading story after story like you mention. I literally got pissed off and decided to try writing stories about what I feel real people might act in similar circumstances

I don't mind some fantasy and I sure don't mind reading sexual stories. I just wanted to bring it a little closer to the truth. If you ever read any of my stories, you would get an idea of what I'm talking about.

As I've mentioned many times, I don't consider myself a writer (even though some of the readers do) I'm just an old guy trying to give the readers a more realistic view of life as I see it. That doesn't mean there is no place for fantasy. But, I believe, a nice blend of reading is much better.

I still think you are a fun person an enjoy reading your comments on AH. They make me smile which I wish Icould do a lot more of.
Sincerely
DG Hear

 

[CeriseNoire]

cerise, i think desclos is the 'real name' behind "Aury," but many people knew her as Aury, so it wasn't purely a penname, possibly a 'name change'? she gave interviews as 'Aury' and published translations of poems (writing them, her profession) under that name.

Interesting. Maybe "Aury" was a name she used for her English speaking audience? Everything I've read about her was in French when I was younger, and I didn't come across that name. I know I always said that if I ever got published in mainstream literature, I'd have to come up with a pen name just to avoid having to constantly correct people's pronunciation.

Drat, now I'll have to spend my Spring Break researching her instead of writing lesson plans. My interest has been piqued.

 

[deathlynx]

Well, from what I've seen, it's the fantasy pieces that gets the most reads...I dunno about incest cat, but group gets very good reads and votes...The more realistic stuff I've written tends to get comparatively nothing...

Besides, writing is a good outlet for fantasies that you either couldn't fulfill or wouldn't realistically want to...

 

[king_wesley]

I believe part of the reason is because a lot of people people who sites like Literotica to basically announce their own personal fantasies to the world in story form.

I am not suggesting half the authors want to fuck their mothers (That was Freud) but that they may fantasise about seeing a guy sleep with his mother. Or they may lust over the idea of a girl taking on 8 men at once or whatever.

As this will never happen in real life (and in some cases is impossible) they write about it. If you read those stories you talk about, what percentage of them are from one-off story writers producing something which is far from publishable.

Again that is not a generalisation for everybody, but it Johnny Perverto decides he's going to write porn, he is nine times out of town going to tell the tale of Silvia the buthcher's wife who one day realises she is a bisexual that lusts for group sex, as opposed to telling the heart rendering tale of two lost souls who meet by chance and fall in love, but circimstance may keep them apart for all time.

Also crazy, never gonna happen XXX Rated porn film style literature is 20 times easier to write than something with plot and characters and basis in reality. If you place something in a world that readers know then it is much easier for them to reject it and suggest that such events or feeling would never happen.

Whereas unless you remember your first gangbang vividly, it will be pretty hard to relate to Wilma the the story example you gave.


As a writer of Mind Control fiction, I have possibly just displayed a mindnumbing level of hypocrasy in the last however many paragraphs. I hope not though, because there are always exceptions to rules. If 'Wilma's first gang bang' was written by the best author on Literotica, then it is going to be a great story regardless of its genre and so forth, and if all fantasy and unrealistic stories disappeared we would lose a lot of the damn fine literature out there.

We will all just have to accept that online story sites are an avenue for people to share their own personal fantasies and hey, every now and again, somebody will do it damn well.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

As a writer of Mind Control fiction, I have possibly just displayed a mindnumbing level of hypocrasy in the last however many paragraphs. I hope not though, because there are always exceptions to rules. If 'Wilma's first gang bang' was written by the best author on Literotica, then it is going to be a great story regardless of its genre and so forth, and if all fantasy and unrealistic stories disappeared we would lose a lot of the damn fine literature out there.

I think you are close to the point, Wesley. The idea of fantasy is not what bothers me at all. It's the lack of realism in many of the stories that bothers me.

Would I screw my father or my mother? That's not even an option. Could I write a story about it? Yes, that is definately something I could do. But were I to do so, it would have an aura a realism about it to the best of my abilities.

What I'm talking about is the story of that starts out - "I ran into my horny sister at the mall. She was so wet she had to fuck someone and I was available..." What mall? Is this something that happens in your family often? Is your sister a skanky slut who screws everyone? Or is this a story that can be saved from the mundane, "I fucked my sister" scenerio and raised to the "An odd thing happened at the Mid-City Mall in Detroit last night."

Something along those lines, I think.

 

[Pure]

perhaps jenny is just saying that you don't learn the truth, you don't learn about life, by reading stuff posted at Literotica. some people seem not to know this point: the generations in the last decades, the ones raised on porn, seem NOT to know such things as what first encounters are usually like or whether intercourse leads to female orgasm.

further those of us who are *really* curious had best NOT waste time with amateur porn and erotica. if someone wants to know about 'losing virginity' or 'being raped' or 'being fucked by daddy,' only perhaps 1% of such stories give any facts (while embedding them in fiction) which might be of interest.

suppose you found out that most books like "happy holidays in Europe" or "exciting times in southern Spain," and "exploring Portugal's beaches" were written by people who hadn't been there! wouldn't it be odd if "travel" books were like porn, and mostly just 'made up.'

 

[deathlynx]

But were I to do so, it would have an aura a realism about it to the best of my abilities.
. . .
Or is this a story that can be saved from the mundane, "I fucked my sister" scenerio and raised to the "An odd thing happened at the Mid-City Mall in Detroit last night."
Something along those lines, I think.

Well, some of us like to read/writewell driven plots and character development...however a lot of the people who read the stories on lit (remember "Anon"? ) are here just for works of stroke, and all that interesting realism gets in the way of a good sex scene...
I'm sure many of us have had problems before with a story or chapter that we get so engrossed in, we suddenly realize there's little or no sex...they hate that, even if we find it interesting...

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Well, some of us like to read/writewell driven plots and character development...however a lot of the people who read the stories on lit (remember "Anon"? ) are here just for works of stroke, and all that interesting realism gets in the way of a good sex scene...
I'm sure many of us have had problems before with a story or chapter that we get so engrossed in, we suddenly realize there's little or no sex...they hate that, even if we find it interesting...

That's true, Death,
I don't write stroke stories. Never have, never will. I doubt I could. Maybe the thing that bothers me is something about the VALUE I place on the words I write. This is something that seems to be missing in many of the stories I see, especially in the "Story Feedback" forum.

 

[gauchecritic]

while there are a number of poets and artists who go out at look at reality, the result (the work of art), although it reflects experience/observation, is also shaped in the imagination. consider monet's 'haystacks': ever see a haystack that looked like a monet one?

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/haystacks/boston.jpg

Errm Yes. I'm thinking Ogg can probably tell you more being a south country resident. But the painting is pretty much true to life, however symbolic it is.

But I do agree. However much an author relates fiction they are impelled to draw upon their own experience or imagination coloured by that experience

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think you are close to the point, Wesley. The idea of fantasy is not what bothers me at all. It's the lack of realism in many of the stories that bothers me.

Would I screw my father or my mother? That's not even an option. Could I write a story about it? Yes, that is definately something I could do. But were I to do so, it would have an aura a realism about it to the best of my abilities.

What I'm talking about is the story of that starts out - "I ran into my horny sister at the mall. She was so wet she had to fuck someone and I was available..." What mall? Is this something that happens in your family often? Is your sister a skanky slut who screws everyone? Or is this a story that can be saved from the mundane, "I fucked my sister" scenerio and raised to the "An odd thing happened at the Mid-City Mall in Detroit last night."

Something along those lines, I think.

You're talking about bad writing, pure and simple. These writers are typing with one hand, and could care less about background or anything else- the kind of stuff that used to be written into spiral notebooks during study hall and then burned when the perpetrator grew up enough to be embarrassed by it all. But it's the Age Of The Internet and it all gets put out there, good, bad, and ugly! In the best of all possible worlds, Lit would reject more of that stuff- AND, at the same time, would retain its enormous readership...

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

You're talking about bad writing, pure and simple. These writers are typing with one hand, and could care less about background or anything else- the kind of stuff that used to be written into spiral notebooks during study hall and then burned when the perpetrator grew up enough to be embarrassed by it all. But it's the Age Of The Internet and it all gets put out there, good, bad, and ugly! In the best of all possible worlds, Lit would reject more of that stuff- AND, at the same time, would retain its enormous readership...

Yes, Stella... That's very much what I've been thinking about. Put in another light, what is the likelhood of the general level of writing improving with respect to real, well thought out and written stories with, good plot development, characterizations and characters that act like real people, not some 13 year old with a hard-on and a poor masty of English.

 

[SimpleGifts]

Yes, Stella... That's very much what I've been thinking about. Put in another light, what is the likelhood of the general level of writing improving with respect to real, well thought out and written stories with, good plot development, characterizations and characters that act like real people, not some 13 year old with a hard-on and a poor masty of English.

I also believe that on an open-ended, mass-appeal site such as this, you're going to get more submissions that focus on outre, taboo topics, and those topics will also get more readership, because there aren't many high-profile, free sites that include those topics, and the "long tail" of online porn tends to favor stories that aren't realistic but focus on the raw sex (i.e. "stroke stories") because they appeal to both the lowest common denominator and the most outrageous interests.

If you want a site that has fiction that is more grounded in reality and plot development, if not actual experience, than you would be better off checking out someplace like Clean Sheets, where the purpose is to use quality and not quantity to attract eyeballs.

SG

 

[deathlynx]

Yes, Stella... That's very much what I've been thinking about. Put in another light, what is the likelhood of the general level of writing improving with respect to real, well thought out and written stories with, good plot development, characterizations and characters that act like real people, not some 13 year old with a hard-on and a poor masty of English.

Well, I'll be honest and say that when I started posting here most of my stuff was pure stroke with almost no real plot or character developement...I'd like to think that my stories have come a long way since then...For a lot of people it's a learning process, that's what we're here for and why we appreciate good constructive feedback so much...