A primer on Unions and Union Membership

[Weevil]

Some of you seem to be confused about why people join unions or what unions are all about.

I'm in a Union to get the biggest slice of the pie I possibly can, I expect my Union to use all the dirty tricks that companies have used to get me my pie.

Now, I'm in a weird position because I'm a member of my Union as well as my employer(The Province I live in) so my pay raise, to some extent, comes from me.

But why should anyone feel bad about that. People use their freedom of association to get themselves the best shake they can.

It's freedom, baby. Let it ring.

 

[concrete]

plus the side jobs

 

[miles]

Some of you seem to be confused about why people join unions or what unions are all about.

I'm in a Union to get the biggest slice of the pie I possibly can, I expect my Union to use all the dirty tricks that companies have used to get me my pie.

Now, I'm in a weird position because I'm a member of my Union as well as my employer(The Province I live in) so my pay raise, to some extent, comes from me.

But why should anyone feel bad about that. People use their freedom of association to get themselves the best shake they can.

It's freedom, baby. Let it ring.

You expect the Union to use all the dirty tricks so you can get your pie. Hmmmmmm. Boy, that's an organization I want to be associated with.



In the US certain states have Right to Work laws, which means you can't be forced to join a union. If you choose not to, you are still entitled to the same wages and benefits.

That's freedom, baby.

 

[QuickDuck]

Re: Re: A primer on Unions and Union Membership

In the US certain states have Right to Work laws, which means you can't be forced to join a union. If you choose not to, you are still entitled to the same wages and benefits.

Union membership is supposedly non-compulsory here...just depends which one.

Frankly, I have never seen a union do or achieve anything good for Joe Average in Australia...they are all just "steps" to a political career and nest feathering for the self gain of union bosses. (IMO)

 

[Saint Peter]

Re: Re: A primer on Unions and Union Membership

You expect the Union to use all the dirty tricks so you can get your pie. Hmmmmmm. Boy, that's an organization I want to be associated with.



In the US certain states have Right to Work laws, which means you can't be forced to join a union. If you choose not to, you are still entitled to the same wages and benefits.

That's freedom, baby.

Freedom from making a decent wage, baby.

Right to Work states have had wages drop like pie. Not just the unions but the rats as well have seen wages, condition, and safety records fall.

It sounds good on paper and the media makes the spin taste like candy. In reality, it was the money hungry Republicans trying to make more dollars for the company and keep the workers unorganized and poor.

 

[Saint Peter]

Re: Re: Re: A primer on Unions and Union Membership

Union membership is supposedly non-compulsory here...just depends which one.

Frankly, I have never seen a union do or achieve anything good for Joe Average in Australia...they are all just "steps" to a political career and nest feathering for the self gain of union bosses. (IMO)

QD, I am not familiar with the unions in Australia so I can only speak from an American perspective. If better wages, benefits, and working conditions are not considered good in your neck of the world I would be surprised. I do not understand to whom "union bosses" refers. On the local level my "union boss" has spent many hours working with me in the field. He went thru the same apprenticeship and makes the same money as any other journeyman in the trade. On the national/international level, if the leaders do move on to political jobs then that is just one more well trained Democrat to fight the rich Republicans.

 

[Mia62]

On a personal level, I think that unions have way too much power and should be abolished.

Yet...I am a hypocrite because I need to thank the union that I belong to seeing as how it allows me to make an excellent wage. If I was hired in the private sector, I would be making at least $5 less/hour.

 

[miles]

Re: Re: Re: A primer on Unions and Union Membership

Freedom from making a decent wage, baby.

Right to Work states have had wages drop like pie. Not just the unions but the rats as well have seen wages, condition, and safety records fall.

It sounds good on paper and the media makes the spin taste like candy. In reality, it was the money hungry Republicans trying to make more dollars for the company and keep the workers unorganized and poor.

Your first paragraph is uncategorically false. Wrong. Untrue.

The second paragraph is nothing but rhetoric.

Can we discuss facts?

 

[zipman]

You have a right to do whatever you want, and I wouldn't question your motives. However, just because unions are good for you, doesn't mean they are good for anyone else. I just posted the following in another thread, but I think it states my thoughts on unions pretty well.



"As for unions in general, they do as much good as they do bad. While they certainly served a purpose originally, they now raise the cost of doing businesses that consumers wind up paying for. In the end, it is always the average guy (the person REDWAVE thinks he is arguing for) who always pays for it.

The main problem with unions is that they reward mediocrity and pay people based on seniority and not performance. This drives up the "cost" of their services which is passed down the chain, ultimately to the end consumer (the average guy)."

 

[crappie master]

Most of the Union talk on these boards has been about wages and contract negotiations.Unions are about a lot more than that.
I'm a shop steward for the local union. As such I've had defend co-workers from supervisors who just didn't like them and were looking for a reason to take some sort of disciplinary toward them.I've had to staighten out clerical errors regarding sick time, vacation time earned,overtime and holiday pay.
If you work for an empolyer who treats workers with respect, 'Good for You',but a lot of workplaces need a union just to keep from getting screwed.

 

[zipman]

Most of the Union talk on these boards has been about wages and contract negotiations.Unions are about a lot more than that.
I'm a shop steward for the local union. As such I've had defend co-workers from supervisors who just didn't like them and were looking for a reason to take some sort of disciplinary toward them.I've had to staighten out clerical errors regarding sick time, vacation time earned,overtime and holiday pay.
If you work for an empolyer who treats workers with respect, 'Good for You',but a lot of workplaces need a union just to keep from getting screwed.

Most of the things you described as being benefits already occur at American companies. Due to litigation in the U.S., companies have to treat their employees better or face lawsuits. This change negates many of the reasons why unions came into being in the first place.

The downside for any good that they do is represented by my post above. They reward mediocrity at the expense of more dedicated or more skilled workers. They cost society a great deal of money in lost efficiency and productivity.

 

[Saint Peter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A primer on Unions and Union Membership

Your first paragraph is uncategorically false. Wrong. Untrue.

The second paragraph is nothing but rhetoric.

Can we discuss facts?

Would love to discuss the facts with you Miles.

http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/01/0501/feature07.html

“Right-to-work” laws lower wages for everyone. The average worker in a “right-to-work” state makes about $4,830 a year less than workers in other states ($31,829 compared with $26,998). Weekly wages are nearly $70 greater in free-bargaining states than in right-to-work states ($612 versus $545). Working families in states without “right-to-work” laws have higher wages and benefit from healthier tax bases that improve their quality of life.

“Right-to-work” endangers safety and health standards. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the rate of workplace deaths is 41 percent higher in states with “right-to-work,” where unions can’t speak up on behalf of workers.

Right to Work for less is not about worker's rights. That is the fog big money lays on real issue. The politicians pushing this garbage through are doing so to win favor, votes, and blowjobs from the rich Republicans who pay for the slick ads come voting season.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

Most of the Union talk on these boards has been about wages and contract negotiations.Unions are about a lot more than that.
I'm a shop steward for the local union. As such I've had defend co-workers from supervisors who just didn't like them and were looking for a reason to take some sort of disciplinary toward them.I've had to staighten out clerical errors regarding sick time, vacation time earned,overtime and holiday pay.
If you work for an empolyer who treats workers with respect, 'Good for You',but a lot of workplaces need a union just to keep from getting screwed.

On the other hand I have witnessed the protection of workers by shop stewards when the worker has clearly been unethical, it goes both ways. I would guess that there are the same amount of unethical bosses as there are unethical workers so I would refer back to Zipman7's post as to the true good of unions in this day and age.

 

[perks]

all I know is that when I worked for a union, I got paid more money, and the same wage as the guys I worked with, and I didn't when I worked for a non union house.

It was a considerable difference.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

all I know is that when I worked for a union, I got paid more money, and the same wage as the guys I worked with, and I didn't when I worked for a non union house.

It was a considerable difference.

All I know is that when the union came in and tried to roughshod us into voting it in I asked the 28 year employee in Enviornmental services in our department her take. She had not recieved a raise in 3 years and was still making $12.75 (US) and hour.

 

[Saint Peter]

all I know is that when I worked for a union, I got paid more money, and the same wage as the guys I worked with, and I didn't when I worked for a non union house.

It was a considerable difference.

Amen Sister Perky.

 

[truegentleman]

The company I work for, likes to tell us they have an open door policy. No matter what our problem we can go into a managers office and voice our concerns. That doesn't mean that they will listen to me, it just means that I can waste my time and breath talking to them. They pay wages on par with most union companies within my industry, but the benefits are far below. Plus the favortism shown in the workplace is outrageous. But since the pay is the same as the union shops, we could never get the votes to unionize.

 

[perks]

All I know is that when the union came in and tried to roughshod us into voting it in I asked the 28 year employee in Enviornmental services in our department her take. She had not recieved a raise in 3 years and was still making $12.75 (US) and hour.

maybe it depends on the industry the union is in.

The restaurant industry, as an hourly employee? I got paid well, and I tell you, that most people in that industry don't without a union.

I've been on both sides of the union. I've been a boss and an employee in a union house and a boss and employee in a non union house.

In my experience, union is great for employees and not so great on the boss.

But that's the point. The boss is supposed to make money for the company no matter what. And unfortunately the what happens to be the employee, because they're expendable, moreso than equipment.

 

[Saint Peter]

All I know is that when the union came in and tried to roughshod us into voting it in I asked the 28 year employee in Enviornmental services in our department her take. She had not recieved a raise in 3 years and was still making $12.75 (US) and hour.

12.75 an hour after 28 years and the union is trying to "roughshod" itself in? Who needs a union when the company is treating the staff so well? I will bet they even let you contribute to a 401k out of your own pocket for retirement as well.

Fuck those evil unions. I dont want to make a decent wage. I dont want quality health care or good conditions on the job site.

Maybe those nice managers will give me a pay raise on the fourth year. I could sure use that quarter an hour.

 

[crappie master]

Most of the things you described as being benefits already occur at American companies. Due to litigation in the U.S., companies have to treat their employees better or face lawsuits. This change negates many of the reasons why unions came into being in the first place.

I don't know about you, but most workers can't afford to take a grievance about 4 hours overtime pay to a lawyer.This is why local unions are still needed.

 

[Backyard sweaty]

My mistake SP

For not making it clear, she was part of the union. In this hopsital departments like Enviornmental services, patient transportion, maintaince, etc. are union and have been for many years.

My point was that after 28 years, and she was the best we have ever had in our department, she was being abused in MHO.

 

[perks]

unions are a tool, that the people at your job weren't using the tool, doesn't make unions bad, it just means you weren't weilding the tool well.

the unions should have renegotiated her contract, and made sure there was a clause for people there for a certain amount of time to be paid more money.

I know there was in the union I was a part of.

 

[Saint Peter]

I understand now Backyard. I honestly know of no union jobs in my part of the country that only pay 13 bucks to a journeyman.

The 28 years on the job would not change my pay either. A journeyman is a journeyman in my local. The 28 years of service would come into play when retirement is taken. The more years of service the higher the monthly check.

 

[zipman]

unions are a tool, that the people at your job weren't using the tool, doesn't make unions bad, it just means you weren't weilding the tool well.

the unions should have renegotiated her contract, and made sure there was a clause for people there for a certain amount of time to be paid more money.

I know there was in the union I was a part of.

But here is the problem, that she should be paid a certain amount of money based on seniority and not on her contribution to the business.

What you wind up with is people that do as little as they can get away with, because in general, unions won't reward the person who does the best job. So there is little to no financial motivation work hard and to do a better job.

 

[Saint Peter]

But here is the problem, that she should be paid a certain amount of money based on seniority and not on her contribution to the business.

What you wind up with is people that do as little as they can get away with, because in general, unions won't reward the person who does the best job. So there is little to no financial motivation work hard and to do a better job.

I am in construction and might work for a number of employers in one year. Senority means nothing. The length of the job is based on the size of the job. Worst case senario is when the job is over I go to the hall and put my name on the out of work list and wait for a call. The workers that do not do quality work or no work at all are the first on the layoff list. People learn fast to do an honest day.