A good (long) read on gun control.

[Fushi]

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

*clicks

 

[koalabear]

"The teachers are there already. The school staff is there already. Their reaction time is measured in seconds, not minutes. They can serve as your immediate violent response. Best case scenario, they engage and stop the attacker, or it bursts his fantasy bubble and he commits suicide. Worst case scenario, the armed staff provides a distraction, and while he’s concentrating on killing them, he’s not killing more children.

But teachers aren’t as trained as police officers! True, yet totally irrelevant. The teacher doesn’t need to be a SWAT cop or Navy SEAL. They need to be speed bumps."

That's against union rules!

 

[JohnnySavage]

I suspect the worst case scenario would be for an armed teacher to have a melt-down and start shooting the students.


Second worst: engaging a nut and getting a bunch of kids caught in the cross-fire.


Less guns, not more guns.

 

[Fushi]

Which is more likely statistically though?

 

[marshalt]

Your blog sucks, Larry.

 

[Peregrinator]

Thank you.

 

[koalabear]

I suspect the worst case scenario would be for an armed teacher to have a melt-down and start shooting the students.


Second worst: engaging a nut and getting a bunch of kids caught in the cross-fire.


Less guns, not more guns.

If they had only had an AR ban in Conn..

 

[Sean]

I'll just repost my FB comment:

I stopped reading at

4. China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.

What Mr self confessed shill for the gun industry fails to mention is that not one of those 22 children died. Not one. On the same day that Adam Lanza pulled the same shit in CT and massacred twenty children and six adults.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

I'll just repost my FB comment:

I stopped reading at

What Mr self confessed shill for the gun industry fails to mention is that not one of those 22 children died. Not one. On the same day that Adam Lanza pulled the same shit in CT and massacred twenty children and six adults.

Thanks for letting us know which side you're on.

But despite strict controls, illegal guns and explosives are still traded in China, and Wu said the ministry would continue its crackdowns.

The ministry launched a national campaign against illegal guns last year. Official figures show that from last June to September, police confiscated about 178,000 illegal guns, 3,900 tons of explosives, 7.77 million detonators and 4.75 million bullets.

Ministry figures also show that more than 3.8 million illegal weapons have been confiscated in recent years.

Wu said at a press conference last year that although the production, sale and stockpiling of guns and explosives had been decreasing nationwide since 2001, the problem was still "severe" in some areas, such as in Hualong County in Northwest China's Qinghai Province.

In June 2005, criminals Ma Saiyi and Ma Huni were arrested in Qinghai for the production and sale of more than 100 guns. They were both jailed for 12 years.

Early last year, police in Southwest China's Chongqing Municipality also cracked a gun selling case, seizing 45 suspects, 57 guns and 321 bullets.

High profits are deemed the biggest attraction for people who trade illegal guns, although those found guilty of selling guns or explosives face punishment ranging from three years in jail to the death penalty.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-04/21/content_856308.htm

Yet gun crimes continue to grab headlines. Early last year, a man in the northeast went on a rampage with a homemade pistol, killing five family members and neighbors. In September 2007, a young Guangzhou man was found guilty of using a replica gun to rob a bank customer of $218,000, and drew a 19-year prison sentence. In December, a guard at a munitions dump machine-gunned a colleague over a chess match. Two days later, he was killed, too, in a shootout with police.

****************

Possession of a single gun is grounds for a prison sentence of as long as three years, and the penalty for a gun crime often is execution.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394012224530655.html

.
Well, I guess the death penalty opponents are right. It's not a deterrent; not with such a vibrant black market in firearms going on.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Less guns, not more guns.

In america where the problems are the shootings all happen in gun free zones...can't get any "Less gun" than that....working wonders by the way Pro gun ban guys!! real smooth....

 

[Sean]

Thanks for letting us know which side you're on.


.
Well, I guess the death penalty opponents are right. It's not a deterrent; not with such a vibrant black market in firearms going on.

Which has absolutely no bearing on the fact that if the nutter in China had had a gun, it's a fairly safe bet that at least some of those twenty two kids would be dead.

 

[Peregrinator]

Which has absolutely no bearing on the fact that if the nutter in China had had a gun, it's a fairly safe bet that at least some of those twenty two kids would be dead.

Is it correct to think that your opposition to guns is about saving the lives of children?

 

[Sean]

Is it correct to think that your opposition to guns is about saving the lives of children?

It's certainly one of the factors.

 

[albrooks]

As a former teacher, I must express my disdain at the idea of arming teachers. The idea of having a weapon strapped to my body all day while working around children is absurd. While I'm sure there are some teachers who would feel comfortable doing this, it would completely distract me from the job that I was there to do. Too many terrible accidents could occur from having teachers armed and these accidents would occur far more often than the mass shootings take place. I worked with 7th -12th grade students who were almost all larger than my small 5'2 frame. They could easily overpower me and take my weapon. Children act on impulse and should not be near firearms. I have seen many students who looked angry enough to shoot me or their fellow students in the heat of their anger. If this type of tragedy occurred who then would be at fault? The teacher for having her weapon taken away or the school district for allowing her to carry a weapon? Just more lawsuits waiting to happen.

 

[Peregrinator]

It's certainly one of the factors.

Two questions, then; what are the others, and wouldn't resources be better spent on things that kill greater numbers of children? School shootings are a fairly infrequent anomaly compared to other causes.

 

[Sean]

Two questions, then; what are the others, and wouldn't resources be better spent on things that kill greater numbers of children? School shootings are a fairly infrequent anomaly compared to other causes.

Handguns are designed for one reason: to kill people. Not to hunt with or for target shooting, to kill people. The "but cars kill more" argument is a pile of straw the size of the Empire State Building.

 

[Peregrinator]

Handguns are designed for one reason: to kill people. Not to hunt with or for target shooting, to kill people. The "but cars kill more" argument is a pile of straw the size of the Empire State Building.

Yes. So what?

 

[blobfish]

I've yet to figure out how the intent behind an object's creation has any bearing on its use. The mass-energy equivalence wasn't intended to kill people, but it leveled two cities.

 

[albrooks]

There are no "easy" solutions when it comes to this. How about some psychological probing into what is behind these school shootings. Not all, but an overwhelming amount of these mass school shootings are being committed by young white males. Maybe schools should incorporate gun awareness programs along the lines of the drug and alcohol prevention programs that are already in place. Maybe testing could be done or counseling provided to identify students who are "at-risk" for this behavior. We identify students who are academically at-risk and set up interventions so why not?

 

[Peregrinator]

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

[Liar]

I've yet to figure out how the intent behind an object's creation has any bearing on its use. The mass-energy equivalence wasn't intended to kill people, but it leveled two cities.

I asked this is another thread but got no reply that I can remember (I'll go backand look later):

If the intent behind an objects's creation is irrelevant, why does firearms and the ownership thereof need a protection with a specific clause in the United States' constitution?

If guns are nothing special... why. Are. There. Gun. Rights?

 

[Fushi]

As a former teacher, I must express my disdain at the idea of arming teachers. The idea of having a weapon strapped to my body all day while working around children is absurd. While I'm sure there are some teachers who would feel comfortable doing this, it would completely distract me from the job that I was there to do. Too many terrible accidents could occur from having teachers armed and these accidents would occur far more often than the mass shootings take place. I worked with 7th -12th grade students who were almost all larger than my small 5'2 frame. They could easily overpower me and take my weapon. Children act on impulse and should not be near firearms. I have seen many students who looked angry enough to shoot me or their fellow students in the heat of their anger. If this type of tragedy occurred who then would be at fault? The teacher for having her weapon taken away or the school district for allowing her to carry a weapon? Just more lawsuits waiting to happen.

But it's not about arming every teacher, its just advocating those that are responsible and wish to do so. If you don't want to arm yourself, and don't feel safe doing so, that's your choice, but there are many teachers who feel it is their responsibility to do so and wish to have the means to do so. As for accidents regarding it; you can't definitively say one way or the other. There is no data supporting either premise.

 

[blobfish]

I asked this is another thread but got no reply that I can remember (I'll go backand look later):

If the intent behind an objects's creation is irrelevant, why does firearms and the ownership thereof need a protection with a specific clause in the United States' constitution?

If guns are nothing special... why. Are. There. Gun. Rights?

The Bill of Rights protects certain rights that the citizens of many European countries of the day did not have. Free speech, religious freedom, protection from unreasonable search and seizure and other things. In Europe and colonies, weapons were often taken away in order to prevent rebellion. The Second Amendment was added simply because it was needed.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Which has absolutely no bearing on the fact that if the nutter in China had had a gun, it's a fairly safe bet that at least some of those twenty two kids would be dead.

And some of the world's most stringent gun laws with penalties for personal gun possession up to and including the death penalty, also apparently "have absolutely no bearing on the fact" that nutters who get illegal guns in China occasionally use them with the same tragic results as occur elsewhere.

I think you must have missed this in my last post: Early last year, a man in the northeast went on a rampage with a homemade pistol, killing five family members and neighbors. In September 2007, a young Guangzhou man was found guilty of using a replica gun to rob a bank customer of $218,000, and drew a 19-year prison sentence. In December, a guard at a munitions dump machine-gunned a colleague over a chess match. Two days later, he was killed, too, in a shootout with police.

Are incidents of multiple murder accompanying a single shooting spree fewer per capita in China than in the United States? Oh, most certainly.

Does splitting the hair on the less than 1% of such incidents in both countries give gun opponents a hard on? Oh, most certainly.

If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to live in a country where robbing someone with a carved out bar of soap or a toy gun gets the thief 19 years in prison, then by all means, pack your bags. Personally, that degree of over-reaction would make me nervous concerning how the "authorities" might treat me if I observed out loud that it looked like the "Great Leader" was putting on a little weight.