A "FAIR TAX" thread so U_D can "tear me to shreds..."

[zipman]

Of course you are...

__________________

Oh I am loving it. In fact, I couldn't write a better script.

You caling someone out, repeatedly making yourself look like an ass and then not even being able to "man up" and admit you were wrong? I'm loving every single post in this thread.

I'm sure the people at Fair Tax are thanking their lucky stars to have a supporter like you "explain" how it works to people.

Yup, lucky indeed!

 

[firespin]

Of course it serves a useful purpose. Otherwise it won't be in there.

That's an interesting article.

I suggest you go back and read the conclusion, especially the last three paragraphs.

LOL..."of course is serves a useful purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be in there". I think that's the thinking that got us the current tax code, yes?

I acknowledged these guys are fans, and posted the link so others may indulge. I need not agree with all their conclusions to point out that even these people think prices will rise.

Or, firespin, will their opinion not matter now?

You've already tried to treat me like Charlie Brown a couple of times there Lucy...

I was actually more interested in why you wouldn't agree with one of their opinions, given their role in promoting the plan.

Clearly there are well-reasoned analyses that question many of the fundamentals of the plan, including the tax rates that are needed to make this work. I was throwing you a bone to use a reference from your buddies.

You need nobody else's help to embarrass yourself, based on the evidence in this thread. You seem to delight in the attention and chance, to be, well, different. I wonder if KRC is right that you created your entire biography at AJ's house of fiction.

 

[Pookie]

No federal excise taxes are subject to automatic repeal under HR-25 and would have to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Most excise tax revenues are targeted towards specific programs related to the sector from which they are collected. (For example, the lions share of the gasoline excise tax goes to the Federal Highway Trust Fund with smaller portions allocated for mass transit, undergound storage tank leak remediation, etc.) Most of these taxes are not rolled into the general fund.

The effect of the Fair Tax on 'at the pump' prices is indeterminate right now. (Meaning I haven't taken the time to research the potential effect.) Whether the 'at the pump' price would increase or decrease would be primarily determined by how much tax code compliance is costing the producers. Given the horrendous complexity of the tax code as it applies to petroleum production (depletion computations, adjustments for loses, etc.) my guess would be that the price would decrease slighty, but that is only a guess.

Ishmael

Wow, Ishmael agreeing with me (1st paragraph) against his "bro" about excise taxes....will wonders never cease?

Now, I need someone to do me a favor. Quote my post number 156 and change my name so that the Iggy filter won't kick in for Ish (the coward has me on ignore). I want to show Ish that his oil price scenario isn't really feasible.

There are four component parts to a gallon of gasoline:

1. The actual crude oil (69%)
2. Federal and state excise taxes (13%)
3. Refining cost and profit (7%)
4. Distribution and marketing (12%)

(total slightly greater than 100% due to rounding)

The above breakdown comes directly from the United States Department of Energy and are current as of 2008, the latest year available. The link to document these numbers is HERE

Now then, "Fair Tax" or no "Fair Tax", the worldwide commodity price of crude oil will not change. "Please Mr. OPEC, we've just implemented a 'Fair Tax', would you please reduce your price 23%?" simply will not work. Put another way, implementing the UnFairTax will NOT impact the price of an import. It simply won't. There are NO imbedded/hidden taxes on imports. Under the UnFairTax, your cost of materials for every $100 of purchases just rose 30% to $130 (remember, ALL imports are taxed).

As far as Excise taxes go, your beloved HR25 keeps federal excise taxes intact (see Section 302, Section D) so they will remain unchanged.

Therefore, 82% (69% + 13%) of the current cost of a gallon of gas remains the same whether or not the UnFairTax is implemented.

Now, let's assume a "best case scenario" (i.e. one that presents the UnFairTax in the best possible light) and assume that the cost basis of the remaining 18% is indeed reduced by the "23% embedded taxes" touted by AJ. With me so far?

Under the UnFairTax, you will now pay $1.25 for every $1.00 you currently pay on gasoline.

Here's the math:

• 82% of the cost remains unchanged: $1.00 * .82 = $0.82
• The remaining 18% of the cost is lowered 23% due to "embedded taxes" ($1.00 * .18) * (1 - .23) = 14 cents
• Add those two sums together: $0.82 + $0.14 = $0.96
• Now calculate the UnFairTax sales tax of 30% (“23% tax inclusive”): $0.96 * 1.30 = $1.25

Feel free to check my math!

If gas was normally $2/gallon, it'd be $2.50 under UnFairTax.
If gas was normally $3/gallon, it'd be $3.75 under UnFairTax.
If gas was normally $4/gallon, it'd be $5.00 under UnFairTax.

Here you go Bobby.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Here you go Bobby.

thankee kindly.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Either way, maybe this will reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Maybe give Canada a pass, though? Eh?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Either way, maybe this will reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Maybe give Canada a pass, though? Eh?

I believe back on page 2 AJ showed us how the FairTax will allow the United States to annex Canada (except Prince Edward Island, of course).

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

LOL..."of course is serves a useful purpose, otherwise it wouldn't be in there". I think that's the thinking that got us the current tax code, yes?

I acknowledged these guys are fans, and posted the link so others may indulge. I need not agree with all their conclusions to point out that even these people think prices will rise.



I was actually more interested in why you wouldn't agree with one of their opinions, given their role in promoting the plan.

Clearly there are well-reasoned analyses that question many of the fundamentals of the plan, including the tax rates that are needed to make this work. I was throwing you a bone to use a reference from your buddies.

You need nobody else's help to embarrass yourself, based on the evidence in this thread. You seem to delight in the attention and chance, to be, well, different. I wonder if KRC is right that you created your entire biography at AJ's house of fiction.

Because, as an opinion, it was an opinion of a possibility. All sorts of possibilities in this world, but in their conclusion, the possibility that is the strongest is the collapse of the current system.

KRC is just a bitter hater. Something went wrong somewhere in his life...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Oh I am loving it. In fact, I couldn't write a better script.

You caling someone out, repeatedly making yourself look like an ass and then not even being able to "man up" and admit you were wrong? I'm loving every single post in this thread.

I'm sure the people at Fair Tax are thanking their lucky stars to have a supporter like you "explain" how it works to people.

Yup, lucky indeed!

__________________

How about the strict separation of english and stupidity?

Ordinality isn't a word.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Dear Throb,

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=693688

Thank You,
The Lit Community

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

"Clearly there are well-reasoned analyses that question many of the fundamentals of the plan, including the tax rates that are needed to make this work. I was throwing you a bone to use a reference from your buddies."



It does not question MANY of the fundamentals. I read it. You're busy reading everything you can for cherries. The "prices might rise" is kinda vague in reference to the FairTax and very much a clarion call to action under the current system, but, the one thing we learned in business is that people fear change more than they fear the failure of their company.

 

[firespin]

"Clearly there are well-reasoned analyses that question many of the fundamentals of the plan, including the tax rates that are needed to make this work. I was throwing you a bone to use a reference from your buddies."



It does not question MANY of the fundamentals. I read it. You're busy reading everything you can for cherries. The "prices might rise" is kinda vague in reference to the FairTax and very much a clarion call to action under the current system, but, the one thing we learned in business is that people fear change more than they fear the failure of their company.

You misunderstood me. I meant there are several articles that question if the proposed rates would be revenue neutral, if such a high rate of sales tax could be collected from such a broad base of products and especially services, or whether the claim that the Fair Tax was immune from tinkering was well founded. The article I linked didn't go to any of those places, so if they think prices will rise, then perhaps there's a reason for that.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

There was no definitive statement of prices rising other than the warnings in the conclusion as to the road we are on.

If we were to get our house in order, then there is an equal likelihood of prices falling...

You see, we have become just about the most business hostile environment now, in not just the free world, but you can throw in Communist China as well and from the looks of it, the altruists want to drag us even further down that road. The debt, right now, is a guarantor of rising prices.

Now, if we were to go to a less hostile environment, then maybe business would reverse the trend and flee away from their new "havens" of slightly less hostility.

Furthermore, to get back to your notion of tinkering, we have a better chance of "retarding' said tinkering if the arguments made are objective economical and mechanical arguments rather than the emotive subjective arguments of who wins and loses.

Seems to me, it's best if we all lose or win together instead of looking out on a rising tide of boats and notice that some people are floating higher in yachts while some people float higher in bass boats...

Not that I have anything against bass fishing, especially when I can do it in the comfort of a BassPro shop.

 

[zipman]

__________________

Bwahahahaha!

Keep quoting it you putz. I'm man enough to admit I ddin't know a word. *gasp* the horrors.

You don't even understand how the concept you're so busy advocating works!

Fucking comedy gold is what you are!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Bwahahahaha!

Keep quoting it you putz. I'm man enough to admit I ddin't know a word. *gasp* the horrors.

You don't even understand how the concept you're so busy advocating works!

Fucking comedy gold is what you are!

How you choose to spend your time at Lit says a lot about you. Following me is your choice with so many threads to choose from...
__________________

How about the strict separation of english and stupidity?

Ordinality isn't a word.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Here you go firespin...

We're going to need some real answers, FAST!



http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/tell_us_the_truth_1.html

 

[zipman]

How you choose to spend your time at Lit says a lot about you. Following me is your choice with so many threads to choose from...
__________________

You mean maybe I should spend years promoting something like a new tax system that I don't even understand?

I at least manned up and admitted I was wrong. Funny how someone who is so hell bent on personal accountability can't seem to do the same.

And that says a lot about you.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Oh, I understand it all right.

A lot of jackals and trolls are helping me to prove they have nothing other than name-calling and gotcha...

And that's the game you were trying to play, "GOTCHA A_J!!!"

YOU BIG DUMMY!!!



You had so much "potential..."

The difference between you and firespin is at least he's willing to research his "gotchas..."

Although you guys are close to reducing him to the name-calling, it's so easy to get on the bandwagon if it looks like you're in a group; relieves one of the guilt, so to speak. "Yes, I'm behaving badly, but if everyone's doing it, it must be okay to denigrate that with which we don't agree..."

Typical lynch-mob thinking. Groupthink. Useful Tools...
__________________

How about the strict separation of english and stupidity?

Ordinality isn't a word.

 

[zipman]

Oh, I understand it all right.

A lot of jackals and trolls are helping me to prove they have nothing other than name-calling and gotcha...

And that's the game you were trying to play, "GOTCHA A_J!!!"

YOU BIG DUMMY!!!



You had so much "potential..."

The difference between you and firespin is at least he's willing to research his "gotchas..."

Although you guys are close to reducing him to the name-calling, it's so easy to get on the bandwagon if it looks like you're in a group; relieves one of the guilt, so to speak. "Yes, I'm behaving badly, but if everyone's doing it, it must be okay to denigrate that with which we don't agree..."

Typical lynch-mob thinking. Groupthink. Useful Tools...
__________________

I don't play "gotcha" with you because you aren't man enough to simply admit you were wrong about something, regardless of how small an issue it is.

The fun has been watching you back-pedal, spin, duck, avoid, dodge etc. etc. etc. or playing the victim rather than simply going "my bad. I was wrong."

You're just too damn stupid to realize it.

The fact that you completely implode on a topic that you consider yourself such an advocate for only made the ironic justice of it so much more enjoyable.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Here you go firespin...

We're going to need some real answers, FAST!



http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/tell_us_the_truth_1.html

Classic AJ above....when cornered, post a random American Thinker editorial and demand that your political opponents play defense...DEFENSE, dammit!

 

[Pookie]

... "Yes, I'm behaving badly, but if everyone's doing it, it must be okay to denigrate that with which we don't agree..."

Typical lynch-mob thinking. Groupthink. Useful Tools...

Oh, the irony.

 

[Pookie]

Classic AJ above....when cornered, post a random American Thinker editorial and demand that your political opponents play defense...DEFENSE, dammit!

I'm amazed it took this long. Usually he shoots his load long before this.

 

[firespin]

Here you go firespin...

We're going to need some real answers, FAST!



http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/tell_us_the_truth_1.html

Not...*gasp*...American Thinker! Whatever will I do now?

Better check out who's behind the "thinker", as we in the know call it.

"Rick Moran, blog editor, is a professional writer/editor living in Streator, IL. He is a contributor to American Thinker as well as being its associate editor. He is also Chicago editor of Pajamas Media and is proprietor of the website Right Wing Nuthouse."

I guess World Net Daily wasn't hiring.

Or there's this guy:

'Richard Baehr, chief political correspondent, is a management consultant in the health care field, and is the president of Richard A. Baehr & Associates. He frequently serves as an expert witness in healthcare litigation cases involving planning and financial matters. Richard has had a long interest in the Middle East, and American politics, and is a frequent speaker and writer on these subjects. He has spoken at many Jewish organization meetings, synagogues, and colleges on various topics: Israeli-Palestinian relations, the war in Lebanon, American politics and Israel, the future of Israel and the Middle East, and American political trends. "

It would have been shorter to say "he posts as busybody on literotica forums."

But to the article cited...

..how anticlimactic. (Fitting that AJ posted it, hmmm?)

It basically says excessive government spending and big deficits are problems.

What we need to solve those problems is a different, revenue-neutral way to pay taxes!

Oh, wait, it doesn't actually say that last part. That would make no sense.

 

[firespin]

There was no definitive statement of prices rising other than the warnings in the conclusion as to the road we are on.

If we were to get our house in order, then there is an equal likelihood of prices falling...

Keep in mind nobody knows what prices would do since nothing exactly like this has been done before.

My understand is that when other countries introduced consumption taxes in the form of VATs, the overall price level rose to include the taxes. I think the authors here anticipate that happening, though they only mentioned it in the context of helping to repudiate part of the national debt, i.e. in the context of eroding the value of T-bill holdings through a one-time inflation that reduces the value of all savings by 30%.

 

[zipman]

Oh, the irony.

I know. It's too damn funny, isn't it?

 

[Pookie]

I know. It's too damn funny, isn't it?

It's got to be an act. It's just GOT to be.