A cautious, thoughtful discussion of non-abusive incest between adults

[write_or_wrong]

Even today I received a message from a woman who said she wants to be with her father, and she is simply the latest in a long line, along with men and women in every stage of life (not underage), some of them being players in what, to them, is absolutely normal but, normal or not, sometimes involves transgenerational incest even including reproduction.
I draw the line there, by the way, I'm just telling you what some people have told me about.
What I really wanted to explore today are the situations like the one a young adult woman mentioned to me today, a tale I've now heard many times. Or variations like young adult son with mother, etc. Here is the question: if both persons are at least eighteen, and both persons enter into such a relationship voluntarily, do we still call it incest? The word is stigmatizing, to say the least, and in many cases for good reason.
But adults can make choices. I also don't know what the law says about this--is it illegal if both parties are adults and it is consensual? There may be antiquated laws on the books, like the one that says adultery is illegal, that no politician has ever wanted to touch, for obvious reasons; but in the same way that no one gets prosecuted for adultery, would two adults with familial ties who are intimate with each other need to fear the law?
I don't know. I think it more likely they would need to fear social backlash, which would likely be severe.
Having said all this, after having read so many accounts of real life familial relationships (maybe that's a better term than incest in these cases) that were entered into enthusiastically by both parties, and which, as these people tell me, make them happy and fulfill certain needs they couldn't find elsewhere, I have come to the conclusion that sometimes, when it is the right two people, people who for whatever reasons this works for, specifically with the other right person in question, I actually support this.
Now, if after posting this I have not been banned from Lit, I would like to discuss this further, if y'all would.

A well-stated question. The limitations, underage (obviously) and procreation (genetic problems) notwithstanding, why not?

 

[Beandip478]

That is very dangerous to suggest.

Not to be a killjoy, and not because of the taboo topic being discussed, but because when discussion happens with likeminded people it often seems something is normal when to others that may not be the case. It is called affirmative bias, where when someone is entertained by a thought, they begin to feel that the person they crave feels the same way. Why? Because they want the other person to feel that way, but that might not be the case.

It is not just incestuous relations though, it can happen to husbands who want to share their wife with another man. The more and more that they think about it, the more and more they see "signs" that their spouse wants to be shared. That is NOT the case though, its affirmative bias causing them to see signs that are not there.

Its dangerous because relationships can be forever damaged. If a brother feels his sister is always flirting with him every time he sees her... and he approaches her and tells how he feels, because the brother read her wrong it is possible that she never speaks to him gain. Or a husband approaches his wife about being with another man and the marriage is damaged because she thinks her husband wants her cheating because he is, or wants an excuse to get out of the marriage.

Affirmative Bias can really make a person think a sexual connection is there when it is not.

I am not saying no one should ever investigate feelings further, but it should not be done without some major assurances first. Forever damage in relationships can result.

I want to second what you said about husbands and wives, mainly as it pertains to the special subject of half the homemade porn on the internet, and that is white couples and cuckolding, with a huge hung black man involved.
I have often gotten the impression that in many cases, it is really that the wife wants to be fucked by BBC, and she kind of talks her husband into it, gently getting him to sheepishly accept that he is sexually inferior, so that there is no point in him resisting, since he cannot win. Thus, some time later, there he is, having feminized, flipped the script internally so that he goes from being a masculine man, to lapping the black man's cum out of his wife's pussy.
Of course, there will be cases where the husband wants this from the word go, they both do.
My point, to get back to what the OP wrote, is every time I see a thumbnail for this kind of video, I shake my head and wonder what kind of life these two people want for themselves, precisely because once they do this, they can never go back to having a "normal" married relationship, to being happy just with each other, and the white man's sense of self must be irreparably damaged. Be careful with your choices, people.

 

[JCSTREET]

Even today I received a message from a woman who said she wants to be with her father, and she is simply the latest in a long line, along with men and women in every stage of life (not underage), some of them being players in what, to them, is absolutely normal but, normal or not, sometimes involves transgenerational incest even including reproduction.
I draw the line there, by the way, I'm just telling you what some people have told me about.
What I really wanted to explore today are the situations like the one a young adult woman mentioned to me today, a tale I've now heard many times. Or variations like young adult son with mother, etc. Here is the question: if both persons are at least eighteen, and both persons enter into such a relationship voluntarily, do we still call it incest? The word is stigmatizing, to say the least, and in many cases for good reason.
But adults can make choices. I also don't know what the law says about this--is it illegal if both parties are adults and it is consensual? There may be antiquated laws on the books, like the one that says adultery is illegal, that no politician has ever wanted to touch, for obvious reasons; but in the same way that no one gets prosecuted for adultery, would two adults with familial ties who are intimate with each other need to fear the law?
I don't know. I think it more likely they would need to fear social backlash, which would likely be severe.
Having said all this, after having read so many accounts of real life familial relationships (maybe that's a better term than incest in these cases) that were entered into enthusiastically by both parties, and which, as these people tell me, make them happy and fulfill certain needs they couldn't find elsewhere, I have come to the conclusion that sometimes, when it is the right two people, people who for whatever reasons this works for, specifically with the other right person in question, I actually support this.
Now, if after posting this I have not been banned from Lit, I would like to discuss this further, if y'all would.

The incest taboo, which is almost universal with some exceptions, is designed to (a) stop inbreeding, which leads to disaster over several generations, and (b) stop jealousies and conflict within the family. That's nature's contribution. Incest legislation is designed to underline this taboo on inbreeding. However, it may not be appropriate to adult, consensual relationships which (a) include manual and oral petting but don't proceed to intercourse, or (b) are between a male who sleeps with a female who cannot conceive (post-menopause or having had a hysterectomy are two examples), or (c) homosexual relationships which cannot lead to reproduction. Some incestual relationships may be caused by genetic sexual attraction which can result when a child is separated from his mother when quite young (some churches used to so this - just yank out-of-wedlock kids and put them up for adoption). GSA is a very under-studied phenomenon, first brought to notice by Barbara Gonyo in the 1980s, so difficult to get much info about.

 

[JCSTREET]

In my opinion I don’t think cousins engaging sexual activity should be considered incest. But I can’t stress the fact enough has to be 2 consenting adults

First cousins are iffy and cultures which practice first cousin marriage just don't get a lot of Nobel prizes. Second cousins - far as I know - are legally marriageble (sp?) everywhere

 

[Lilbearcub]

My biggest concern with using consenting adults as a basis is the simple fact that one of the party might actually consent, because through coercion they feel it is right, and therefore consent to the relationship. We are all very fragile people, and the desire to please runs deep. Consenting to me, which might be obvious means that both parties of are somewhat on equal footing regarding their emotional state. En

 

[Beandip478]

The incest taboo, which is almost universal with some exceptions, is designed to (a) stop inbreeding, which leads to disaster over several generations, and (b) stop jealousies and conflict within the family. That's nature's contribution. Incest legislation is designed to underline this taboo on inbreeding. However, it may not be appropriate to adult, consensual relationships which (a) include manual and oral petting but don't proceed to intercourse, or (b) are between a male who sleeps with a female who cannot conceive (post-menopause or having had a hysterectomy are two examples), or (c) homosexual relationships which cannot lead to reproduction. Some incestual relationships may be caused by genetic sexual attraction which can result when a child is separated from his mother when quite young (some churches used to so this - just yank out-of-wedlock kids and put them up for adoption). GSA is a very under-studied phenomenon, first brought to notice by Barbara Gonyo in the 1980s, so difficult to get much info about.

Interesting what you say about jealousies within the family...I have met plenty of mothers here who are currently involved or used to be involved sexually with their sons, and I can't tell you how many of them comment on how much more well-endowed the son is than his father, and how this gives them a level of sexual pleasure that was previously unknown to them.
We could go all the way back to Sophocles and Oedipus Rex on this one. But a husband losing a sexual contest for his wife to his own son because the son is simply better equipped than him, and knowing that his wife chose the son over the husband for this reason, never mind humiliation, to some men that would spell the shattering of their self-image.
Oedipus, in the play, kills his father so that he can take his mother for himself. When Jocasta, mother of Oedipus, learns the truth of all this, she takes her own life. The play, of course, is meant to point to certain themes, and underscore them with intense drama such as murder and suicide. However, in a similar real world version of these events, I can see how occasionally it might have a similarly fatal outcome.

 

[Dangerousliaisons]

Late eighties and nineties,my recently divorced sister and I became lovers ,just before my wedding day,crazy times,amazing adventures

 

[MarionsLover]

And another point I’d like to add.
Im far from being a perfect Christian. I need to do better with that but anyway. We all came from Adam and Eve sooo how does that work. Is incest a sin or not?

yeah they kinda handwave over that part in Genesis... and then there's Lot's daughters

 

[MarionsLover]

In my opinion I don’t think cousins engaging sexual activity should be considered incest. But I can’t stress the fact enough has to be 2 consenting adults

I'd assumed that "what happened to three of my cousins" meant his three cousins were molested by their dad (his uncle)

 

[MaturemaninVA931393]

I'd assumed that "what happened to three of my cousins" meant his three cousins were molested by their dad (his uncle)

 

[NoObjection]

First cousins are iffy and cultures which practice first cousin marriage just don't get a lot of Nobel prizes. Second cousins - far as I know - are legally marriageble (sp?) everywhere

Having done considerable genealogical research, I know most of us are distant cousins, so I married a cousin possibly and so did you.

 

[NoObjection]

My biggest concern with using consenting adults as a basis is the simple fact that one of the party might actually consent, because through coercion they feel it is right, and therefore consent to the relationship. We are all very fragile people, and the desire to please runs deep. Consenting to me, which might be obvious means that both parties of are somewhat on equal footing regarding their emotional state. En

This is my only concern. What consenting adults do is nobody’s business.
But what kind of consent does daddy get from an adult daughter.
He’s my dad, can’t say no to him?

 

[Matt3427]

I’m in love with my aunt and I’m starting to think she has feelings for me as well

I had sex with my 60yo aunt when I was 19. It was over 2 wonderful weeks that I still have such fond memories of. Not very close from an incest perspective maybe, but it was so erotic.

 

[lucy_anne21]

It happens. The friends and acquaintances who discuss this with me all say that it’s their business, and
nobody else’s. As they’re adults, they are happy to join in consensual relationships.

If they enjoy themselves, and there is no duress or coercion, then leave them alone to do whatever they wish to in private.

Lucy.

 

[MarionsLover]

This is my only concern. What consenting adults do is nobody’s business.
But what kind of consent does daddy get from an adult daughter.
He’s my dad, can’t say no to him?

I guess it depends on who initiates the sex?

 

[SarahTaboo]

As long as everyone is adults!!

 

[bws1]

I believe that what goes on between two consenting adults is their business. That said, my only concern would be the possibility of any unexpected pregnancies. I live close to a town where there are a lot of cousins marrying cousins and the number of children that are born with birth defects or some form of deformity is much higher there than anywhere else I've ever been to.