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A legitimate question for black people on Lit.

-geisha.grrrl- said:


You're assuming because Owera checked you on the dumb shit you tried to pass off as a question that she thinks you're a racist. She hasn't, as of yet, called you a racist, but if she did, she'd be right.
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Racist is a popular word thrust upon members of the Lit community much too often. Its so easy to brand someone of being a racist, im sure it makes the brandor feel good about him/herself
 
Owera said:
ARGH!!! *pulling out my hair* Okay, let me restate it: Scientists have, after much investigation, found that there is nothing genetic that shows proof of difference 'races'. They actually found the opposite: that there is more genetic variation within supposed "races" than there is across various populations.

Obviously, lots of people have decided that a different skin color somehow means something. But why? Why the need to differentiate using anything at all (skin color, eye color, or whatever)? Why the need to differentiate? It is only meaningful if you assign meaning to it. It doesn't have to be meaningful at all.
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I used skin color because it's black people saying they're related to Egyptian royalty and that Jesus was black, and since most slaves were of the "black" color.

If I'm wrong then just use African in place black.

Same questions...Why do some African-Americans think Jesus was black? Why do some African-Americans think they are related to Egyptian royalty just because they're black? Do African-Americans feel they would have been better off had there been no African slaves?
 
hydrex said:
Maybe I can explain it a little better for you. I don't see European countries or America going into Africa for products and services like they do with other European countries. I don't even see them going there as often as they do in Middle eastern countries or China.
Whether that has to do with the lack of resources in Africa or because of skin color I have no idea. Personally I think it has to do with skin color more than anything else though I may be wrong.

I never meant to suggest that anyone should be glad about slavery. I think you read it that way because you automatically assume all white people are racists.
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No, despite how it may appear (and believe me, I totally understand how it can appear that way), I don't think all white people are racists. I think there are certainly racists, and I think they come in all sorts of skin colors, too.

I was once assigned to teaching a unit on post-colonial Africa. And when I prepared to teach that, I did a bunch of research. And here is what I learned (and hopefully this answers your question): When colonial powers carved up Africa into different countries, they divided a lot of areas where people were of the same culture, and also included many different cultures within the same boundaries. And then they expected the people within those boundaries to think of themselves as the same, and it just didn't work too well, and often resulted in serious conflict. Also, like any colonialism anywhere, the purpose of having colonies is to get profits from resources. So for example, European countries were making money off of their colonies in Africa, by growing tobacco, coffee, and all sorts of other things, by mining gold and diamonds, etc. So they set up a system in which they made people work at those jobs, to produce those products. After many years of making people work on plantations and in mines for the benefit of European countries, the land had become radically altered, people's livelihoods and culture were very much changed too, and then, when some powers decided they weren't getting enough money anymore, they pulled out, and left people in this new situation, without much support. In other cases, the people got tired of colonial power, and rebelled. But again, the same problem: when you've been in an area that was under colonialization, and that area has been considerably changed, how do you get back on your feet, after it has been seriously plundered? It's hard. Basically, European colonies took a lot of resources from AFrican countries, leaving them rather poor, in most cases. And in the process radically changed people's subsistence patterns values and organization. So there wasn't much left to work with later on.
 
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Beco said:
I love this argument!

Afrocentrism seriously distorts Egyptian history. Egyptians were not "black" (Negroid) on the whole, though a few dynasties of rulers were. But Egyptians were also not racists, it seems, and people of different colors intermarried. We could do well to follow their lead in this!

"African culture" is not a unity: there are many, many cultures in Africa. Ancient Egyptians are not the ancestors, either culturally or genetically, of the peoples of West Africa or of the American black population.
Click to expand...


God, can you ever form your own thought without resorting to stealing anothers words?

Fallacies of Afrocentrism

A few days ago I posted an article I wrote back in '91 when the college's black student org. invited Leonard Jeffries to come to speak. In it I ran through, though very briefly (for space), some of the fallacies of Afrocentrism. Here is a little more about them, in no special order.

1. Afrocentrism seriously distorts Egyptian history. Egyptians were not "black" (Negroid) on the whole, though a few dynasties of rulers were. But Egyptians were also not racists, it seems, and people of different colors intermarried. We could do well to follow their lead in this!

There is no evidence that Nefertiti or Cleopatra were 'black', for example. Nefertiti was not "white" (i.e. European) either (Cleopatra was either 3/4 Greek or, perhaps, entirely so, not Egyptian at all).
2. Greeks did not "steal" their culture from Egypt. In the ancient Mediterranean world, cultural influences moved around a lot.
3. The Egyptian rulers and their acolytes (like all the "-hoteps", Imhotep, Ptahhotep, et al.) were an oppressive and expoitative aristocracy. Cheikh Anta Diop, whom Afrocentrists admire but, it seems, seldom read, has a very interesting review of Jacques Pirenne's History of Ancient Egypt in one of his books. Diop comments favorably about Pirenne's description of revolutions against the Egyptian rulers by lower-class Egyptians -- something one would expect in an exploitative society. But the Afrocentrists who so admire Diop never mention this aspect of Ancient Egypt! In short, what they admire is the aristocratic, exploitative aspect of it.
4. "African culture" is not a unity: there are many, many cultures in Africa. Ancient Egyptians are not the ancestors, either culturally or genetically, of the peoples of West Africa or of the American black population.
5. The whole "ice man-sun man" thesis of Francis Welsing is racist crap, without a shred of evidence to support it. Welsing seldom publishes her 'research'; same with Jeffries. I know: I've tried to get it; with lots of effort, I've gotten a very little bit. The infamous "Melanin" Conferences at which these ideas are promoted are virtually secret, their 'proceedings', if any, not available to anyone.
6. The premises of Afrocentrism are false and racist against blacks, among others.
Click to expand...


The next time you wish to quote a source you should make it clear that it's not your own words. You should link it - don't attempt to claim that it's yours by omission. Moron.


Good catch, topale.
 
Beco said:
Racist is a popular word thrust upon members of the Lit community much too often. Its so easy to brand someone of being a racist, im sure it makes the brandor feel good about him/herself
Click to expand...

I'm glad you quoted geisha because I have had her on iggy for a long time.

Geisha~
Black people are the ones claiming ancient Egyptians were black. Black people are the ones claiming Jesus was black. I have no legitimate proof that Jesus or ancient Egyptians were black at all but rather much like they are today. If you have a problem with that then ask black people to stop laying claim to royalty and Jesus just because of skin color that they are assuming.
 
C'mon, you guys expected Hydrex to have written that?

Here's a newsflash, busybody copy and pastes.
 
"The original Egyptians were unmixed pure black folks. When they were at the pinnacle of their glory they were not a mixed group by any means. During the middle dynasties especially (and later) when people migrated to this great land there was some intermarrying. This is natural and doesn't need to be debated. It was even done within royalty lines at times to solidify alliances, which was a common practice between powers during that period of history. Chancellor Williams refers to this phenomenon in his book "The Destruction of Black Civilization." And frankly, he theorizes that this mixing was part of the reason for the fall of Black Civilization. Nevertheless, there was never so much of this that at any time the ancient Egyptians could ever be classified as other than a black people. "



Egyptian Black's website
 
hydrex said:
I used skin color because it's black people saying they're related to Egyptian royalty and that Jesus was black, and since most slaves were of the "black" color.

If I'm wrong then just use African in place black.

Same questions...Why do some African-Americans think Jesus was black? Why do some African-Americans think they are related to Egyptian royalty just because they're black? Do African-Americans feel they would have been better off had there been no African slaves?
Click to expand...

Well, let's try flipping it a little:

Why do some Americans think Jesus was white? Why do some Americans think they were Queens in their past lives? Would 'white' Americans feel they would have been better off had some of them not practiced slavery?

The reason I flip these questions around is to show that the answers to the first to of your questions are the same, regardless of whether you're asking them of 'white' Americans or 'black' Americans. The last question, too, is quite similar, even though it may not appear to be so.

What I'm getting at: the answer isn't to be found in skin color. Human psychology, however, has everything to do with it.
 
I've known for a while that Beco c&p's his 'greatest' posts on Lit. Hydrex is just a moron in general.

Great Thread, guys! ROFL!
 
NonSexWithHer said:
C'mon, you guys expected Hydrex to have written that?

Here's a newsflash, busybody copy and pastes.
Click to expand...

Hydrex or Beco?

I've found that any response by Beco that doesn't sound like it's coming straight from Beevis and Butthead, has been googled and stolen from another person.
 
hydrex said:
I'm glad you quoted geisha because I have had her on iggy for a long time.

Geisha~
Black people are the ones claiming ancient Egyptians were black. Black people are the ones claiming Jesus was black. I have no legitimate proof that Jesus or ancient Egyptians were black at all but rather much like they are today. If you have a problem with that then ask black people to stop laying claim to royalty and Jesus just because of skin color that they are assuming.
Click to expand...

The things you don't know could fill a brain.
 
Owera said:
No, despite how it may appear (and believe me, I totally understand how it can appear that way), I don't think all white people are racists. I think there are certainly racists, and I think they come in all sorts of skin colors, too.

I was once assigned to teaching a unit on post-colonial Africa. And when I prepared to teach that, I did a bunch of research. And here is what I learned (and hopefully this answers your question): When colonial powers carved up Africa into different countries, they divided a lot of areas where people were of the same culture, and also included many different cultures within the same boundaries. And then they expected the people within those boundaries to think of themselves as the same, and it just didn't work too well, and often resulted in serious conflict. Also, like any colonialism anywhere, the purpose of having colonies is to get profits from resources. So for example, European countries were making money off of their colonies in Africa, by growing tobacco, coffee, and all sorts of other things, by mining gold and diamonds, etc. So they set up a system in which they made people work at those jobs, to produce those products. After many years of making people work on plantations and in mines for the benefit of European countries, the land had become radically altered, people's livelihoods and culture were very much changed too, and then, when some powers decided they weren't getting enough money anymore, they pulled out, and left people in this new situation, without much support. In other cases, the people got tired of colonial power, and rebelled. But again, the same problem: when you've been in an area that was under colonialization, and that area has been considerably changed, how do you get back on your feet, after it has been seriously plundered? It's hard. Basically, European colonies took a lot of resources from AFrican countries, leaving them rather poor, in most cases. And in the process radically changed people's subsistence patterns values and organization. So there wasn't much left to work with later on.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That certainly does answer why Africa is in the shape it's in today. I also know that "white" DeBeers still runs the diamond business there for the most part and not Africans.
 
NonSexWithHer said:
The things you don't know could fill a brain.
Click to expand...

Attacking my ignorance rather than giving your own answers on the questions doesn't show me anything other than how stupid you are.

If I knew the answers I wouldn't be asking the questions. At least I'm legitimately trying to learn rather than be rascist.
 
JinXed said:
Hydrex or Beco?

I've found that any response by Beco that sounds like it's coming straight from Beevis and Butthead, has been Googled and stolen from another person.
Click to expand...

Complete and utter idiots both.

Hydrex has moments of lucidity but this thread is unreal in its outright stupidity.

I don't think he's read a book on anything beyond trailer repair.
 
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hydrex said:
I'm glad you quoted geisha because I have had her on iggy for a long time.

Geisha~
Black people are the ones claiming ancient Egyptians were black. Black people are the ones claiming Jesus was black. I have no legitimate proof that Jesus or ancient Egyptians were black at all but rather much like they are today. If you have a problem with that then ask black people to stop laying claim to royalty and Jesus just because of skin color that they are assuming.
Click to expand...

Funny that you were forced to point out that you'd had me on ignore, but then responded to me! :nana: Good Stuff!
 
NonSexWithHer said:
Complete and utter idiots both.

Hydrex has moments of lucidity but this thread is unreal in its outright stupidity.

I don't think he's read a book on anything beyond trailer repair.
Click to expand...


Fix my typo! :mad:
 
hydrex said:
Attacking my ignorance rather than giving your own answers on the questions doesn't show me anything other than how stupid you are.

If I knew the answers I wouldn't be asking the questions. At least I'm legitimately trying to learn rather than be rascist.
Click to expand...

Let's see, you start the thread off by stealing a racist rant against blacks.

You follow that up by not understanding the difference between modern populations and those of antiquity. I hope to God you go back to community college and finish.
 
-geisha.grrrl- said:


Funny that you were forced to point out that you'd had me on ignore, but then responded to me! :nana: Good Stuff!
Click to expand...
I'll quote this, but I'm not sure if it will get read. I think I'm on ignore too.
 
Owera said:
Well, let's try flipping it a little:

Why do some Americans think Jesus was white? Why do some Americans think they were Queens in their past lives? Would 'white' Americans feel they would have been better off had some of them not practiced slavery?

The reason I flip these questions around is to show that the answers to the first to of your questions are the same, regardless of whether you're asking them of 'white' Americans or 'black' Americans. The last question, too, is quite similar, even though it may not appear to be so.

What I'm getting at: the answer isn't to be found in skin color. Human psychology, however, has everything to do with it.
Click to expand...


Honestly, thinking Jesus was white (blonde hair blue eyes) is a stupid to me as thinking Jesus was black.

I imagine it's like you said. People want to feel better about themselves so they lay claim to royalty regardless of color.

Slave owning Egyptian Pharohs are not someone I would want to associate myself with be they white or black.
 
NonSexWithHer said:
Complete and utter idiots both.

Hydrex has moments of lucidity but this thread is unreal in its outright stupidity.

I don't think he's read a book on anything beyond trailer repair.
Click to expand...

I think your av is degrading to women.

I don't cut and paste and no this isn't my area of study but it is something I am trying to understand. Attacking me won't help me become a better person or erase my ignorance it'll just make me dislike you...regardless of your skin color.
 
NonSexWithHer said:
Let's see, you start the thread off by stealing a racist rant against blacks.

You follow that up by not understanding the difference between modern populations and those of antiquity. I hope to God you go back to community college and finish.
Click to expand...

I didn't steal anything. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone else does.

I think my questions are legitimate given my knowledge of the subject. If you don't then enlighten me as to the answers if you can.

I don't think you have to be a genius to know I don't undewrstand the difference between modern populations and those of antiquity but that's exactly whay I aksed the questions in the first place.

Morons only attack, intelligent people try to explain. I see which category you fit under.

Tell me. Do you know for a fact that ancient populations were of any different skin color than they are now? If so give me the link for your proof.
 
NonSexWithHer said:
C'mon, you guys expected Hydrex to have written that?

Here's a newsflash, busybody copy and pastes.
Click to expand...

I didn't write what Jinxed was quoting. If that is indeed who you were speaking to in this post.
 
JinXed said:
God, can you ever form your own thought without resorting to stealing anothers words?

Fallacies of Afrocentrism

[/size]

The next time you wish to quote a source you should make it clear that it's not your own words. You should link it - don't attempt to claim that it's yours by omission. Moron.


Good catch, topale.
Click to expand...

I wasn't gonna cock block the guy. I was gonna sit back and see which females actually buy into his facade.
 
topale said:
I wasn't gonna cock block the guy. I was gonna sit back and see which females actually buy into his facade.
Click to expand...


One - or two always do - but that's okay, they're just twits anyway.
 
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